Netatmo Smart Thermostat for €99 delivered

ted1

ThisRegard wrote: »

The first guy that comes out to do the service checks if your system is compatible with it, no point sending out an electrician with the plumber/gas guy if the electrician can't do anything.

A plumber is qualified to do the install.

bk

ted1 wrote: »

A plumber is qualified to do the install.

Or rather a Registered Gas Installer (RGI). Electrical work is part of their training.

A RGI would usually also be a plumber, but the reverse isn't always true.

ted1

bk wrote: »

Or rather a Registered Gas Installer (RGI). Electrical work is part of their training.

A RGI would usually also be a plumber, but the reverse isn't always true.

That's true, my assumption was that energia would use an RGI (who you would expect to be a plumbers but could be taxi drivers. )

ThisRegard

Either way, two different guys.

bk

ThisRegard wrote: »

Either way, two different guys.

That is the weird thing, it shouldn't require two different guys. A RGI should have the skills and training to also install heating control systems. They do it all the time.

bidiots

Am I right in saying that this Netatmo cannot deal with 2 heat zones and 1 Hot water zone?
All I'm looking for is a device that I can control with an app that I can simply turn any of the zones, on or off.....does this exist?

reni10

This will work with 2 heating zones that is why I have bought it but you need 2 seperate units to do that.

As for hot water you will just need to use your existing timer for that as that is something that you don't really change I would have thought?

yllw.ldbttr

reni10 wrote: »

This will work with 2 heating zones that is why I have bought it but you need 2 seperate units to do that.

As for hot water you will just need to use your existing timer for that as that is something that you don't really change I would have thought?

I'm using two netatmos for the heating zones, but like above I want a thermostatic smart device for my hot water. The reason for me is that I have solar heating for the water, so I only want to fire the boiler to heat water if the temp at the middle or top of the tank is below a certain temperature.
In summer I usually have loads of hot water, whereas in winter I often do not.
My current timer does have a thermostat on the hot water tank but it's connected to the bottom of the water tank, so not ideal, as in the mornings the bottom of the tank will always be colder than a reasonable temp, while the tank might actually have 150 litres of hot usable water.

Anyone have any suggestions? Wrong forum really I assume.

Dardania

I specified this in the past for a load of social housing - unfortunately never got feedback on how the job went as th eclient pulled funding, nevertheless this might fit the bill:

http://www.hewalex.eu/en/page/g-422-and-g-425-controllers-overview-of-functions-and-features.html

Zilog

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

I'm using two netatmos for the heating zones, but like above I want a thermostatic smart device for my hot water. The reason for me is that I have solar heating for the water, so I only want to fire the boiler to heat water if the temp at the middle or top of the tank is below a certain temperature.
In summer I usually have loads of hot water, whereas in winter I often do not.
My current timer does have a thermostat on the hot water tank but it's connected to the bottom of the water tank, so not ideal, as in the mornings the bottom of the tank will always be colder than a reasonable temp, while the tank might actually have 150 litres of hot usable water.

Anyone have any suggestions? Wrong forum really I assume.

Would a normal cylinder thermostat (see this example) fulfil your requirements? This is just a contact thermostat - the back of the stat is in contact with the cylinder metal body. You set the heat you require on the dial and it will turn on/off valve/boiler as required.
Another option would be to clip it around the hot water feed pipe at the top of the cylinder.

Depending on your cylinder type you may have blanks where you can insert a probe type thermostat at different levels for more accurate temperature measurement.

yllw.ldbttr

Zilog wrote: »

Would a normal cylinder thermostat (see this example) fulfil your requirements? This is just a contact thermostat - the back of the stat is in contact with the cylinder metal body. You set the heat you require on the dial and it will turn on/off valve/boiler as required.
Another option would be to clip it around the hot water feed pipe at the top of the cylinder.

Depending on your cylinder type you may have blanks where you can insert a probe type thermostat at different levels for more accurate temperature measurement.

There are blanks, but they are being used by a probe for the solar.. Id say what I need is something like the above cylinder thermostat but with a probe as the blank is partially used.
Any idea where I might source.

It looks like there's an existing thermostat, as I mentioned, but it's at the bottom of the tank, so effectively useless, if I got one like the above with a probe then I could connect it there instead.

Then set the hot water time to come on every day but have it limited by temperature so that if I have hot water already in the tank from the solar, then the boiler would not fire, even if it's timed to do so.

Keith186

Do you have to get a BER survey done if you go with the €85 deal through Energia?
I have a BER report for my house from about 2 years ago by previous owner, no upgrades since then in case that matters.

Caillte

Keith186 wrote: »

Do you have to get a BER survey done if you go with the €85 deal through Energia?

You only need to do the BER if you want grant money from SEAI.

reni10

If you buy the Netatmo yourself can you actually apply for the SEAI grant to cover the price of them?

Caillte

reni10 wrote: »

If you buy the Netatmo yourself can you actually apply for the SEAI grant to cover the price of them?

You need to apply for the grant first and have an SEAI registered fitter to install it to be able to get the grant and then you need a new BER to prove it had a positive effect.

Winterlong

Caillte wrote: »

You need to apply for the grant first and have an SEAI registered fitter to install it to be able to get the grant and then you need a new BER to prove it had a positive effect.

To be honest it sounds like getting the grant is more hassle than it is worth in this case!

sweetie

Service done and dusted. Very nice and knowledgeable RGI. Unfortunately I'm not compatible with the Netatmo.

Keith186

Caillte wrote: »

You only need to do the BER if you want grant money from SEAI.

Thanks but are Energia applying for this on my behalf with this offer?

Caillte

Keith186 wrote: »

Thanks but are Energia applying for this on my behalf with this offer?

For small things like that it is yeah. But if you do it as part of other works like external insulation then it makes total sense.

Zilog

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

There are blanks, but they are being used by a probe for the solar.. Id say what I need is something like the above cylinder thermostat but with a probe as the blank is partially used.
Any idea where I might source.

It looks like there's an existing thermostat, as I mentioned, but it's at the bottom of the tank, so effectively useless, if I got one like the above with a probe then I could connect it there instead.

Then set the hot water time to come on every day but have it limited by temperature so that if I have hot water already in the tank from the solar, then the boiler would not fire, even if it's timed to do so.

Wouldn't go to B&Q, I'd check out Heatmerchants, they seem to have stores throughout the country. The type of sensor you're looking for is an immersion type. Bear in mind you will need a suitable gland to match and maybe some adaptors to suit your cylinder.

Easy to connect the thermostat in line with your timeclock, therefore if your water is hot enough the heat/boiler will not come on.

OU812

Finally got a call from them. Unfortunately our system isn't suitable as we can have the water on separately.


Anyone else doing a similar offer with a different brand?

Winterlong

I bought the €99 box direct from Netamo and could not get it to work, replacing a timer switch.
Electrician came out and nor could he. The relay is faulty. Pesky pesk.

Pique

OU812 wrote:

Finally got a call from them. Unfortunately our system isn't suitable as we can have the water on separately.

Huh? Doesn't every house in the country have electric immersion and gas or oil radiator heating?

I thought this was a replacement for the CH timer. What does the immersion have to do with it?

Or am I misunderstanding?

OU812

Mr.S wrote: »

Am I correct in thinking that if my immersion is electric and my central heating is gas through the boiler, then I can't use this thermostat?

Pique wrote: »

Huh? Doesn't every house in the country have electric immersion and gas or oil radiator heating?

I thought this was a replacement for the CH timer. What does the immersion have to do with it?

Or am I misunderstanding?

It's nothing to do with the immersion.

The boiler we have - "Ideal: Logik 15" has a double switch (with timer) on it "Water" and "Heat". We can have the water on it's own, but if we have the heat on, we must also have the water on - I don't actually know why, it was like that when we bought the house.

Because it has the separate switch for water, they won't fit it.

The immersion is totally separate to the heating system (I'm currently looking for a wifi solution for that also)

nephster

For those of you where Energia are saying on the phone to you Netatmo is incompatible, double check yourself at http://check.netatmo.com/.

We have a combi boiler, which means it does central heating and water; it has two settings, water only and heat and water. The timer *doesn't* heat the water - when you turn on a tap, the boiler turns on and starts heating the flowing water on demand. The timer - and now, the Netatmo - only turns on the central heating side of things.

The girl from Netatmo was adamant this wouldn't be compatible but I was equally sure it would be from reading the boiler manual - Netatmo just replaces the timer/thermostat. And it was

TheGreenMile

Arrived yesterday and think I broke it already. Wired incorrectly and left scorch marks on thermo. Any electricians know we're I went wrong? System is oil burner with wired on/switch and beside it is old anolgue immermat timer. Arrows indicate were I wired to netatmo thermo but it blew.

reni10

I have wired thermostats with 3 wires going to them but the netatmo only takes 2 wires so have sent them off a photo to get their advice of which way to wire it up!

It looks though with me having 3 wires I might be able to actually wire the relay into where the wired thermostat is and then actually use the netatmo thermostat wirelessly which would be a good option if it works but not sure until they come back to me or until I get an electrician in...

ted1

TheGreenMile wrote: »

Arrived yesterday and think I broke it already. Wired incorrectly and left scorch marks on thermo. Any electricians know we're I went wrong? System is oil burner with wired on/switch and beside it is old anolgue immermat timer. Arrows indicate were I wired to netatmo thermo but it blew.

Without actually seen one and what the connection should be.
It looks like your blue is the neutral ,Brown and grey are live and black and red are switched live.

Can you outa picture of the relay ?are there two or three connectors on it ?

xl500

Zilog wrote: »

Regarding hot water, what I do in my own house is have the hot water on a regular timeclock with the Netatmo looking after the heating.

Boiler comes on for half hour twice a day at 5:30am and 5:30pm to heat the water - this gives enough hot water to all showers and hot taps.

Actually, the timeclock and Netatmo are wired to zone valves, rather than directly to the boiler. These zone valves have an auxiliary switch which turn on the boiler only when the valve is open. If any valve is open, the boiler is on. If all valves are shut, the boiler is off.
I ended up doing all the wiring for the heating system myself, the plumber and electrician were lacking expertise here, even though they provided proper motorized electric zone valves.

Thats like mine I have 3 Zone valves and aux switches control boiler so no problem using netatmo relays to switch zone valves to replace existing stats

But how does Netatmo App see the Different Stats for phone control I thought it could only control one stat

bk

Pique wrote: »

Huh? Doesn't every house in the country have electric immersion and gas or oil radiator heating?

No, modern homes and apartments tend to have combi-boilers nowadays. And god they are a million times better then the old electric immersion tank!

No need to remember to turn on the immersion an hour before to get hot water, just turn on your tap/shower at any time, wait about 60 seconds and glorious hot water flows out. The boiler heats the water as it passes through.

No need to worry about your mammy shouting at you because you forgot to turn off the immersion when you went out!

And best of all, they are vastly more energy efficient (and thus much cheaper) to run then a separate immersion.

Well worth upgrading to one of these if you have the old set up. I believe the SEI grant can go a long way to covering the cost of changing to one of these sort of boilers.

nephster wrote: »

For those of you where Energia are saying on the phone to you Netatmo is incompatible, double check yourself at http://check.netatmo.com/.

We have a combi boiler, which means it does central heating and water; it has two settings, water only and heat and water. The timer *doesn't* heat the water - when you turn on a tap, the boiler turns on and starts heating the flowing water on demand. The timer - and now, the Netatmo - only turns on the central heating side of things.

The girl from Netatmo was adamant this wouldn't be compatible but I was equally sure it would be from reading the boiler manual - Netatmo just replaces the timer/thermostat. And it was

Dooh, I haven't gotten my Netatmo yet, but going by my experience of installing a similar wifi thermostat, they work simply and easily with most combi-boilers.

As you say, hot water is controlled by your taps/water flow, not the thermostat. The Thermostat just controls the heating. Hot water always works, even when the heating is off.

reni10 wrote: »

It looks though with me having 3 wires I might be able to actually wire the relay into where the wired thermostat is and then actually use the netatmo thermostat wirelessly which would be a good option if it works but not sure until they come back to me or until I get an electrician in...

Obviously you should double check, but yes, from reading the manual, it looks like you can install the relay where your current powered thermostat is and just use Netatmo Thermostat wirelessly.

TheGreenMile

Its a two wire connector. Attached is a picture of the thermostat and relay. From my understanding from installation guide is that i can only replace the old timer with the new thermo and not the relay.
Here is a link to the installation. https://youtu.be/bm_ELxzOfw0
As shown in previous image with arrows, I connected them ports to this connector in thermostat using two smaller wires. Your help is much appreciated as I'm without heat at the moment as iv forgotten how to put the old timer back together

TheGreenMile

ted1 wrote: »

Without actually seen one and what the connection should be.
It looks like your blue is the neutral ,Brown and grey are live and black and red are switched live.

Can you outa picture of the relay ?are there two or three connectors on it ?

Hi Ted1 thanks for your help. Iv replied below (edit: its above now )attaching picture of thermostat connector. Regards Brian

xl500

ThisRegard wrote: »

The Netatmo only works with one zone. If you want a Nest to control more than one zone your house will need to be capable of having more than one zone, the Nest doesn't introduce that feature.

https://www.netatmo.com/product/energy/thermostat/specifications

This states multiple Zones

Winterlong

xl500 wrote: »

https://www.netatmo.com/product/energy/thermostat/specifications

This states multiple Zones

You have to buy multiple Netatmos for multiple zones.

bk

TheGreenMile wrote: »

Its a two wire connector. Here is a link to the installation. https://youtu.be/bm_ELxzOfw0
As shown in previous image with arrows, I connected them ports to this connector in thermostat using two smaller wires. Your help is much appreciated as I'm without heat at the moment as iv forgotten how to put the old timer back together

TheGreenMile I think your best bet is to get an Electrician or RGI out ASAP to get this sorted.

Looking at your pictures, I think the mistake you made is connecting the Netatmo Thermostat (two wires) to the three wires of the old thermostat.

Unfortunately this isn't what you were supposed to do and you may have electrocuted the Netatmo Thermostat.

What I think you should have done in your set up, is replace the old thermostat with the relay that came in the Netatmo box and then instead use your Netatmo main unit wirelessly (not attached to the wall or any wires).

Basically the 3 cables in your picture are actually electrical cables that carry electricity to power the old style thermostat or Netatmo relay.

The two cables that optionally go into the back of the Netatmo main unit ARE NOT electrical inputs, they are control inputs for boilers that are set up in that way. Thus I think you may have put powered electrical cables into non electrical cables and fried it.

I recommend getting an electrician out, as it can be quiet dangerous messing with electrical cables like these if you don't know what you are doing.

NOTE that even if you throw the house trip switch, there is no guarantee that these cables aren't still powered, as they maybe coming from the boiler and it maybe on a different circuit.

Please note I'm not electrician/RGI and thus not an expert.

ted1

As above.

It looks like you replaced a tone clock with a thermostat.
The time clock works just like a switch in that it breaks the connection in the mains voltage.

A thermostat works is just a signal and doesn't carry mains. Generally with a thermostat the boiler is permanently powered.

I've looked through the netamo site and in fairness their instructions are piss poor.
Even their terminology is extremely poor.
Their use of the word relay is very confusing as generally when people talk about relays they mean electrical ones that connect to the boiler like the Nest heatlink the hive hub.

TheGreenMile

Thanks for the reply. The reason iv attached the thermo rather than relay is from the netatmo site instructions. Maybe iv understood the wrong. Attached is there picture of replacing a wired thermo ( in my case the old immermat).

TheGreenMile

Ok I'm understanding it should have been the relay and not the thermo. Would you know which wires I should connect from the three in the wall to the relay. Hopefully my thermo still works.

ted1

TheGreenMile wrote: »

Ok I'm understanding it should have been the relay and not the thermo. Would you know which wires I should connect from the three in the wall to the relay. Hopefully my thermo still works.

What's the model of your boiler

TheGreenMile

It's a warm flow cabin pak but at some stage a reulla was fit Ted as seen in picture

bk

I agree with ted1, the instructions and terminology Netatmo use is very poor.

TheGreenMile, the installation video you linked to earlier shows just two wires, grey and black. That is how my apartment is wired and I believe how most boilers in mainland Europe are wired, but not how most boilers are wired in UK/Ireland (5 wires).

The grey/black wires are control only wires (carry no electricity), while the other three are the usual electrical wires (and thus dangerous).

Netatmo are a french company and thus they seem to be more focused on the norm in mainland Europe. Rather then UK/Ireland. Not excusing that, just explaining why.

The video and manual actually mention the UK/Ireland setup, but only in passing:

- If there are only two wires, they are the control wires and are useful in this setup. - If there are more than two wires, identify the two control wires. They are usually black or grey.
The wires can be identied as shown on the following diagram

Note: If there are more than two wires, the others are power supply wires and are useless here. They are usually brown, blue, green or yellow.
In doubt, please send a picture to photo@netatmo.com and our support team will help you identify the right wires

With your setup (and the typical Irish setup), you have two options (actually three *).

1) You can very carefully isolate the three electrical wires and then just attach the grey and black cables directly to the main Netatmo Thermostat unit and attached it to the wall replacing the old thermostat.

2) Alternatively you can attach the relay unit to the wiring of the old thermostat and use the Netatmo main unit wirelessly.

3) * Third option is to go mess with the boiler, to wire the relay directly into the boiler, thus completely disconnecting the old controls and using the Netatmo Thermostat unit wirelessly, as described (sort of) in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtvAnDNdgIQ

Having said all that, your wiring looks so convoluted, with fuses and isolating switch, you might be best to get an electrician in to do it.

bk

TheGreenMile wrote: »

Ok I'm understanding it should have been the relay and not the thermo. Would you know which wires I should connect from the three in the wall to the relay. Hopefully my thermo still works.

DO NOT directly connect the relay to the three wires in the wall.

First of all, there aren't three wires in the wall, there are 5/6 !!

Please NOTE I'm only guessing here, you should probably seek professional electrical help!

What likely needs to happen is that the 5/6 cables need to be disconnected from the connector block and then the grey and black cables from the relay directly connected to the grey and black cables going into the wall.

Then the brown and blue cables directly connected to the brown and blue electrical cables. But that is the tricky part as you seem to have a gaggle of cables there, interconnected with the switch and fuse beside it and the earth. That is why I'd recommend getting an electrician in to sort all of that mess out for you.

Again, please NOTE I'm only guessing here, you should probably seek professional electrical help!

OU812

nephster wrote: »

For those of you where Energia are saying on the phone to you Netatmo is incompatible, double check yourself at http://check.netatmo.com/.

We have a combi boiler, which means it does central heating and water; it has two settings, water only and heat and water. The timer *doesn't* heat the water - when you turn on a tap, the boiler turns on and starts heating the flowing water on demand. The timer - and now, the Netatmo - only turns on the central heating side of things.

The girl from Netatmo was adamant this wouldn't be compatible but I was equally sure it would be from reading the boiler manual - Netatmo just replaces the timer/thermostat. And it was

My boiler is compatible on the site, but Energy say because there is a certain valve in the plumbing allowing hot water separately, it can't be fitted.

xl500

Winterlong wrote: »

You have to buy multiple Netatmos for multiple zones.

For any system with multiple Zones you have to buy Multiple Stats ie one stat for each zone but you can control each zone with App for Netatmo

I was just pointing that out as it was stated earlier that these were not suitable for multi zone but they are

TheGreenMile

Thanks for the replys and apologies for turning a bargain alert in to a DIY thread. I will seek professional help. The netatmo site said if you can wire a plug you can install the Netatmo. Obviously I can't wire a plug Will reply a solution when I can find an electrician.

machiavellianme

OU812 wrote: »

My boiler is compatible on the site, but Energy say because there is a certain valve in the plumbing allowing hot water separately, it can't be fitted.

Seems to be a good few on here with this result. I can only imagine I'll be joining the club. My boiler can allegedly heat the water separately but the switch/timer I inherited from the previous owners is broken and no longer has any functionality other than on/off and can only turn both water and heating on together or not at all. It's an easy way for energia to drum up an 85 euro service and harvest details of electricity meter numbers I guess.

Pique

I haven't started to fit mine yet as it's for my mum's house. She has an oil boiler with a normal on-off-timed timer.

I assume this is good for her needs or I've wasted a hundred bucks.

Kirk Van Houten

When replacing the existing analogue timer/on off switch is there a way to leave a manual on off in conjunction with the relay for the wireless thermostat?

Dr.Winston O'Boogie

So has anyone who got the boiler service been told they will get the netamato as their boiler qualifies?

My service due Friday. Expecting the worst.

reni10

I am going to get an electrician to install my 2 Netatmo's as the instructions from Netatmo are not clear and I sent them a photo of my existing 3 wire thermostat setup last week to ask for advice and no response!

I don't want to fry the thermostat or myself by attaching a wrong wire....!