Netatmo Smart Thermostat for €99 delivered

nephster

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

When replacing the existing analogue timer/on off switch is there a way to leave a manual on off in conjunction with the relay for the wireless thermostat?

Should be. Have a look at the boiler manual - mine had (unused) contacts for a thermostat. The relay supplements the timer, rather than replacing it, in that case.

Be aware you can just turn the heat on with the wireless thermostat and/or your phone for a boost. That's mainly what we wanted it for TBH, to act as a wireless switch.

Kirk Van Houten

nephster wrote:

Should be. Have a look at the boiler manual - mine had (unused) contacts for a thermostat. The relay supplements the timer, rather than replacing it, in that case.

nephster wrote:

Be aware you can just turn the heat on with the wireless thermostat and/or your phone for a boost. That's mainly what we wanted it for TBH, to act as a wireless switch.

Cheers. Just want to make sure I can manually turn on the heating even if the WiFi is down.

nephster

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

Just want to make sure I can manually turn on the heating even if the WiFi is down.

The thermostat and relay communicate via RF, not through wi-fi. Wi-fii is how it communicates with the outside world - so, for example, if you want to reprogramme its schedule.

Basically, it still works with wi-fi down to the prior schedule, you can still boost the heating on using it, you just can't *update* the schedule.

Prefect_1998

quick question, we are getting the house rewired and replacing the thermostat on the gas boiler we have, its an older type but i want to get the netamo controller for it, is it the existing termostat that needs ot be compatable or the boiler itself?

i was going to get theEPH T17 put on then get energia to service the boiler to get the offer.

thanks

dubsaab

Dr.Winston O'Boogie wrote:

So has anyone who got the boiler service been told they will get the netamato as their boiler qualifies?

I had my boiler service today and was told I was good to go for Netatmo and I would be getting a call later this week to arrange the install.

Dubsaab

Winterlong

danielle_door wrote: »

quick question, we are getting the house rewired and replacing the thermostat on the gas boiler we have, its an older type but i want to get the netamo controller for it, is it the existing termostat that needs ot be compatable or the boiler itself?

i was going to get theEPH T17 put on then get energia to service the boiler to get the offer.

thanks

No, it is the boiler that needs to be compatible. The Netamo can replace your existing thermo stat or can be wired directly to the boiler and you then set your old thermo to 'always on'....this gives the netamo full control via its own thermo.
Easiest should be to replace the existing thermo with the Netamo though. Have a look at the wiring going in to and out of the existing thermo and that should help define the best way to connect for you. If you are not sure then either do the energia deal or buy direct yourself and get an electricin to install.

Special Circumstances

Ordered, thanks for the heads up OP.

Have a 3 channel programmer but the existing stats are crap and their location is worse.
Going to put the relay in/near the boiler cabinet and use the stat on a table stand in the room I actually want to be controlled.
Set applicable channel to always on, run the live for the zone valve through the netatmo relay instead of the existing stat.

At least that's how it seems it will work in my head... what could possibly go wrong?

whiterebel

Ok, I'm going around in circles here. My set up is gas boiler , no thermostats at all, running on a Horstmann timeclock.
3 zones - upstairs, downstairs, hot water on motorized valves.

Netatmo - Energia confused - say Netatmo doesn't do multizone - Netatmo's website says it does. They are checking.
Hive - doesn't do multizone, although additional thermostats work in the Uk and are available on Amazon.
Nest - very expensive, 2 x complete kits to do multizone, €500 plus fitting of €210.
Tado - looks good, but can't find anyone that installs it.

What I don't want to do is buy Netatmo and then find I can't add another thermostat, or pay massive money for the installation of a second nest. I have had two Irish companies suggested, EPH and Homegenius, but I think I'll give them a miss, they seem to be quite early stage with this.

Any suggestions?

Caillte

whiterebel wrote: »

Ok, I'm going around in circles here. My set up is gas boiler , no thermostats at all, running on a Horstmann timeclock.
3 zones - upstairs, downstairs, hot water on motorized valves.

Netatmo - Energia confused - say Netatmo doesn't do multizone - Netatmo's website says it does. They are checking.
Hive - doesn't do multizone, although additional thermostats work in the Uk and are available on Amazon.
Nest - very expensive, 2 x complete kits to do multizone, €500 plus fitting of €210.
Tado - looks good, but can't find anyone that installs it.

What I don't want to do is buy Netatmo and then find I can't add another thermostat, or pay massive money for the installation of a second nest. I have had two Irish companies suggested, EPH and Homegenius, but I think I'll give them a miss, they seem to be quite early stage with this.

Any suggestions?

Apply for an SEAI grant before you do any work.

whiterebel

Caillte wrote: »

Apply for an SEAI grant before you do any work.

Even though it has been zoned already?

yllw.ldbttr

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Ordered, thanks for the heads up OP.

Have a 3 channel programmer but the existing stats are crap and their location is worse.
Going to put the relay in/near the boiler cabinet and use the stat on a table stand in the room I actually want to be controlled.
Set applicable channel to always on, run the live for the zone valve through the netatmo relay instead of the existing stat.

At least that's how it seems it will work in my head... what could possibly go wrong?

That's what I have, three zones. Water on timer. Heating one and two both ALWAYS ON according to the timer so each is then controlled by a separate Netatmo.

Works perfectly.

Special Circumstances

White rebel - as I understand it Netatmo can handle upstairs/downstairs zones the same way as the Nest - you need a stat/relaybox pair per zone. The newest nest would handle hot water too I think. If you go Netatmo you would need to retain the horstmann timeclock for the hot water. I guess you actually do have a stat on the HW tank.

The next bit I'm not so sure about - I don't know what power your typical zone valve (2port, spring return valves in my case) draws. It may be too much for the netatmo to handle.
If the netatmo IS capable of switching that load without issue then you would route the live that your time clock currently sends to your timeclock through the netatmo relaybox rather than directly from timeclock to valve. (I'd really like if somebody else who has used one could confirm if a 230V zone valve can be switched with the relaybox)
If the netatmo ISN'T capable of switching that load directly without issue then you would route the live that your time clock currently sends to your timeclock through the a separately purchased suitably rated relay and use the netatmo relaybox to control that relay.

Caution - I am NOT an electrician or a plumber.

Special Circumstances

yllw.ldbttr wrote: »

That's what I have, three zones. Water on timer. Heating one and two both ALWAYS ON according to the timer so each is then controlled by a separate Netatmo.

Works perfectly.

The netatmo is doing the zonevalve powering work of the pre-exisiting stat so I guess - do you know what type of valves you have? The switching capability of the netatmo seems to be MAX 0.5A @ 230V, so I'm just worried about what a typical 230V zone valve draws.

TheGreenMile

Success!!! Only because I got someone in who knew what they were doing. That said, it did confuse the qualified electrician initial. To return the gesture for the many replys of advice I risked messing up again by opening the wiring to show the connections between the mains to relay to boiler. The pictures attached might be of help for someone else with an oil burner. Luckily after my first episode my thermo didn't fry and works fine. That said I'll probably break it as I haven't stopped turning the heating on and off with my phone

BoatMad

single house thermostats are virtually useless in hot water systems . fit TRVs

Winterlong

TheGreenMile wrote: »

Success!!! Only because I got someone in who knew what they were doing. That said, it did confuse the qualified electrician initial. To return the gesture for the many replys of advice I risked messing up again by opening the wiring to show the connections between the mains to relay to boiler. The pictures attached might be of help for someone else with an oil burner. Luckily after my first episode my thermo didn't fry and works fine. That said I'll probably break it as I haven't stopped turning the heating on and off with my phone

Am I reading this correct?

Blue on Relay to Blue Neutral.
Brown on Relay to Brown live.
Grey on Relay to Call/Switched live
Black on Relay to Brown live.

TheGreenMile

Winterlong wrote: »

Am I reading this correct?

Blue on Relay to Blue Neutral.
Brown on Relay to Brown live.
Grey on Relay to Call/Switched live
Black on Relay to Brown live.

Iv no idea. I may as well be looking be looking into a bucket of ****e. I can post more pics or try my best to explain

yllw.ldbttr

BoatMad wrote: »

single house thermostats are virtually useless in hot water systems . fit TRVs

And on this subject, dumb TRVs aren't much good either.
If you don't want to fork over 80 euro per radiator for Netatmo's smart TRVS then I recommend the below.
I fitted these on most rads in the house, cut our oil consumption by a huge amount.

http://gasproducts.co.uk/terrier-i-temp-i30-programmable-radiator-control.html

TheGreenMile

More pics to clarify.

Winterlong

Those new pics are perfect! Thanks.

bk

BoatMad wrote: »

single house thermostats are virtually useless in hot water systems . fit TRVs

Well that is rather an unhelpful statement with little meaning behind it. TRV's are completely different to a thermostat (you still need a separate thermostat/timer, even if you have TRVs) and on their own, they can't be remotely commanded.

How are TRV's supposed to help you turn on the heating at home, just as you leave the office? Answer, they can't!

BTW Netatmo has wireless TRV's coming very soon that will connect to this Netatmo thermostat and can thus be remotely controlled. This will give you far greater level of control then old fashioned TRV's.

Also a person with a house that is already mutlizoned or an apartment probably wouldn't get much benefit out of TRV's. I have TRV's, but NEVER use them, however I heavily use my wifi thermostat.

OU812

Really pissed off that I can't use this.

whiterebel

Special Circumstances wrote: »

White rebel - as I understand it Netatmo can handle upstairs/downstairs zones the same way as the Nest - you need a stat/relaybox pair per zone. The newest nest would handle hot water too I think. If you go Netatmo you would need to retain the horstmann timeclock for the hot water. I guess you actually do have a stat on the HW tank.

The next bit I'm not so sure about - I don't know what power your typical zone valve (2port, spring return valves in my case) draws. It may be too much for the netatmo to handle.
If the netatmo IS capable of switching that load without issue then you would route the live that your time clock currently sends to your timeclock through the netatmo relaybox rather than directly from timeclock to valve. (I'd really like if somebody else who has used one could confirm if a 230V zone valve can be switched with the relaybox)
If the netatmo ISN'T capable of switching that load directly without issue then you would route the live that your time clock currently sends to your timeclock through the a separately purchased suitably rated relay and use the netatmo relaybox to control that relay.

Caution - I am NOT an electrician or a plumber.

Thanks, SC. I don't think there is any thermostat on the tank, and thats why I'm leaning toward the Nest. The Netatmo with the discounts from the OP is really good value, if I can find someone to fit them.

yllw.ldbttr

bk wrote: »

Also a person with a house that is already mutlizoned or an apartment probably wouldn't get much benefit out of TRV's. I have TRV's, but NEVER use them, however I heavily use my wifi thermostat.

Depends on your house and lifestyle I suppose.
I have living room, kitchen, sunroom and three bedrooms downstairs on one zone.
So programmable TRVs allow me to carve that up, bedroom TRVs set to 21 in the evening and first thing in the morning. Living room, kitchen etc set to 21 during the day.

Likewise, upstairs a couple of bedrooms and a home office. Bedrooms on at night and early morning but home office on during the day.

They have a place, it just depends on whether each of your zones cover multi-use, and mine unfortunately do.

bk

yllw.ldbttr, I agree with you 100%

TRV's can be very helpful to people with a large house, with lots of rooms and different uses.

But I was responding to BoatMad's off the cuff statement that thermostats like these aren't useful and that only TRV's are needed!

For every person with a massive house with lots of rooms, there are 5 people with a small house or apartment for whom TRV's are almost useless and for whom a wifi Thermostat is extremely useful.

I also think these thermostats are still useful even if you have a big house with lots of TRV's You still don't want to leave your heating on all day if you are out. Basic TRV's don't have timers and can't be remotely activated. It is still very useful to be able to go away for a week of skiing in winter, leave your heat off and to be able to turn it back on with your phone just a few hours before you get home, to arrive home to a nice warm house, without having to have left the heating on all week.

Also I say from my experience, basic dumb TRV's are a pain to use. It is relatively tricky to get the temperature balance on them right and you have to go manually adjust them in each room.

The TRV you recommend looks much better and easier to use and is a good recommendation.

However I think smart wireless TRV's linked to a Netatmo thermostat really is the future. So easy to use and control. Imagine deciding to go to bed early and just saying to your Amazon Echo "Alexa, increase temperature in bedroom to 21", nice

Systems like Netatmo + wireless TRV's are probably the future of multizone heating. Far more flexibility then your typical two zone system, being a true multizone system with a zone per room and much easier to use and control. All while probably costing about the same as a traditional multizone system.

But my point is that most people certainly don't need TRV's. A good Thermostat is the first and more important step IMO. I've TRV's, but don't use or need them, however I'll certainly be looking at these Netatmo TRV's with interest for family members with bigger homes.

yllw.ldbttr

bk wrote: »

yllw.ldbttr, I agree with you 100%

TRV's can be very helpful to people with a large house, with lots of rooms and different uses.

But I was responding to BoatMad's off the cuff statement that thermostats like these aren't useful and that only TRV's are needed!

For every person with a massive house with lots of rooms, there are 5 people with a small house or apartment for whom TRV's are almost useless and for whom a wifi Thermostat is extremely useful.

I also think these thermostats are still useful even if you have a big house with lots of TRV's You still don't want to leave your heating on all day if you are out. Basic TRV's don't have timers and can't be remotely activated. It is still very useful to be able to go away for a week of skiing in winter, leave your heat off and to be able to turn it back on with your phone just a few hours before you get home, to arrive home to a nice warm house, without having to have left the heating on all week.

Also I say from my experience, basic dumb TRV's are a pain to use. It is relatively tricky to get the temperature balance on them right and you have to go manually adjust them in each room.

The TRV you recommend looks much better and easier to use and is a good recommendation.

However I think smart wireless TRV's linked to a Netatmo thermostat really is the future. So easy to use and control. Imagine deciding to go to bed early and just saying to your Amazon Echo "Alexa, increase temperature in bedroom to 21", nice

Systems like Netatmo + wireless TRV's are probably the future of multizone heating. Far more flexibility then your typical two zone system, being a true multizone system with a zone per room and much easier to use and control. All while probably costing about the same as a traditional multizone system.

But my point is that most people certainly don't need TRV's. A good Thermostat is the first and more important step IMO. I've TRV's, but don't need them, however I'll certainly be looking at these Netatmo TRV's with interest for family members with bigger homes.

Agreed.
I think the cost per house is reasonable with thermostats. For example I bought two, one when released at full price and another now. Cost 280 total. Reasonable. Then again, I have 26 rads, so 80 euro per rad would take years to make a return on investment. So I think the programmable TRVs at 20 per rad are a far better buy right now.

That said, once individual smart TRVs get down to the 30ish euro price point I think they will be a no brainer.

yllw.ldbttr

@ThisRegard seems like you deleted your post but that's not how it works.
Timer is set to always on because the Netatmo has a scheduler and a thermostat. The old dumb timer is bypassed effectively, except for the hot water zone.

Special Circumstances

whiterebel wrote: »

Thanks, SC. I don't think there is any thermostat on the tank, and thats why I'm leaning toward the Nest. The Netatmo with the discounts from the OP is really good value, if I can find someone to fit them.

Just realised that I was routing live from a time clock to a time clock in my post. I meant time clock to zone valve of course.

bk

26 rads! Wow that is one big house!

That would be €2080 in TRV's alone! Even using the €30 ones it is still €780

Of course if some of those rooms are very rarely used, you could skip the TRV and just turn off the rad, only get the TRV's for the frequently used rooms.

TRV's really aren't much use for rooms you use a lot or rooms you very rarely use (guest rooms). They kind of fall in between, best used for infrequently used rooms.

So yup, €99 or even €200/280 is a relatively reasonable cost that gives a lot of nice and useful functionality and at least some potential for cost savings (depends on how you use it).

Having said all that, installing even a very basic old style two zone setup can cost more then €2,000 as it requires rerouting of pipes to create a second zone. So €2080 for an extremely smart and capable 26 zone system wouldn't be too bad by comparison.

BTW Remember the SEAI grant will pay out €600 for upgrades to heating controls. You should look into that. I hope Energia and Netatmo add their smart TRV's to their deal. Would be very useful for my sister and parents houses.

yllw.ldbttr

bk wrote: »

26 rads! Wow that is one big house!

That would be €2080 in TRV's alone! Even using the €30 ones it is still €780

Of course if some of those rooms are very rarely used, you could skip the TRV and just turn off the rad, only get the TRV's for the frequently used rooms.

TRV's really aren't much use for rooms you use a lot or rooms you very rarely use (guest rooms). They kind of fall in between, best used for infrequently used rooms.

So yup, €99 or even €200/280 is a relatively reasonable cost that gives a lot of nice and useful functionality and at least some potential for cost savings (depends on how you use it).

Having said all that, installing even a very basic old style two zone setup can cost more then €2,000 as it requires rerouting of pipes to create a second zone. So €2080 for an extremely smart and capable 26 zone system wouldn't be too bad by comparison.

BTW Remember the SEAI grant will pay out €600 for upgrades to heating controls. You should look into that. I hope Energia and Netatmo add their smart TRV's to their deal. Would be very useful for my sister and parents houses.

You're right. I put them on 16 rads only. Not all rooms are used, as you said.
The existing heating dumb timer is three zone. But netatmo has made two of those zones smart.
No grant as the house was built in 2008. I bought the place two years ago.