Trump vs. Hillary - the 1st Debate. Live on C4, Sky and BBC News

Walter Bishop

Not sure why people pay the remotest attention to online polls, they have as much legitimacy as astrology.

ebbsy

Suryavarman wrote: »

If the standard of debate from the pro-Trump crowd wasn't so low I wouldn't have to scoff so much.

Why would I answer queries on her? I'm not going to be the White House Press Secretary. The only people that will have questions to answer is the Republican primary voters for nominating a candidate as weak as Trump.

There were 16 candidates worse than Trump bud.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Peist2007 wrote: »

Yes but where was he found guilty of racism in court? Repeatedly? Starting to think that this evidence may not be forthcoming.

You, on the other hand, have already had this provided to you. As I said before, I'm done with providing Trump fans with proof against their claims over and over, only for them to "forget" about it over and over.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

ebbsy wrote: »

There were 16 candidates worse than Trump bud.

Kasich and probably a few others would have this wrapped up a long time ago in my opinion. Same for Sanders on the other side. Neither candidate can even claim to be 'the best of a bad bunch' - well, in my opinion at least.

Harika

Walter Bishop wrote: »

Not sure why people pay the remotest attention to online polls, they have as much legitimacy as astrology.

https://twitter.com/MajorCBS/status/780747025398763520

:cool:

orubiru

Billy86 wrote: »

Sure, here's one for ya.

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/283341/donald-trump-robert-libutti-illegal-gambling/


Makes you wonder if the media is so 'biased' why they so rarely bring up that Trump has lots and lots of friends in and associations with the mafia, on top of his multiple fraud cases, and the child rape allegations. Not to say you made the claim, but Trump can consider himself lucky he is running in the US, where the media are about as ferocious as a sleeping kitten.

Bit more on Trump's mob connections here - https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html

You aren't exactly helping yourself here.

My understanding is that you were asked to provide proof that "he has repeatedly been found guilty of racism in court"?

In response to this you provided ONE example of some guy called Libutti being an obvious racist and Trumps casino violating anti-discrimination laws when they tried to appease this guy.

There is a leap from the fine that he, as owner of the casino, had to pay over this to "he has repeatedly been found guilty of racism in court".

You follow that one up with a couple of other assorted accusations. This just puts you back in the previous position you held where you are making specific claims about Trump and then failing to back them up.

Billy86: Trump has REPEATEDLY been found guilty of racism in court
Someone: You have evidence of this?
Billy86: Sure, here's ONE example that KIND OF backs up my claim and a couple of unrelated accusations too.

Might as well call you BillyTrump86 at this point.

Anyone can make allegations. That's easy. If you can't provide evidence then you lose every time.

Just like Trump.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

Call Me Jimmy

Well that's a bit silly, he has done those short intakes of breath in every debate, its just the way he amasses his energy before making a perfect point

dudara

Brian? wrote: »

I recorded the debate last night, watching it now. Donald Trump reminds me of a grumpy old man you'd meet in a pub. He has the broad strokes of how to debate and a rough understanding of the issues, but ultimately he comes off as poorly prepared and lacking in knowledge.

This was largely my take on it. Every so often he would start a point well.... and I was thinking, OK he's talking logically and then... bam it descended!

He's a very odd man. He's obviously intelligent, but he seems to be completely deluded as to his ability, and appears to have the attention span of a gnat.

vetinari

Trump will win big

It was about as disastrous a debate as a candidate could have.
Will have to see though whether it changes the polls.
By the end of the debate, Trump was a mess.

He spent a few minutes near the end whinging about the nasty ads that Hillary was running against him!!
Could you imagine the reaction if Hillary had said that? People would be insinuating that women get too emotional and aren't strong enough in the face of adversity.

He also heavily implied that he doesn't pay federal taxes. No wonder he isn't releasing his tax returns.

RobertKK

CNBC went out onto the streets of Manhattan and asked if the debate changed their vote or opinion.
They couldn't find anyone who said their vote changed based on the debate.
A good few said they only watched the debate for the entertainment value.
CNBC also said the people were more prepared to say why they wouldn't vote for a candidate than why they would vote for a candidate.

PropJoe10

Hillary will win narrowly

vetinari wrote: »

It was about as disastrous a debate as a candidate could have.
Will have to see though whether it changes the polls.
By the end of the debate, Trump was a mess.

He spent a few minutes near the end whinging about the nasty ads that Hillary was running against him!!
Could you imagine the reaction if Hillary had said that? People would be insinuating that women get too emotional and aren't strong enough in the face of adversity.

He also heavily implied that he doesn't pay federal taxes. No wonder he isn't releasing his tax returns.

I was very surprised that she didn't nail him to the wall over that. She really missed a trick there.

Peist2007

Billy86 wrote: »

You, on the other hand, have already had this provided to you. As I said before, I'm done with providing Trump fans with proof against their claims over and over, only for them to "forget" about it over and over.

Why are you lying? You and i have only engaged today on this thread. You havent provided me with any links to Trump being "found guilty of racism" "repeatedly" because they do not exist. Now, there is something easily disproved if your above statement is in any way true.

Making up lies to suit your argument when you have zero skin in the game is beyond pathetic.

I am no fan of Trump. I think he is a clown. Fortunately, i have a brain to see that they are both clowns, one more dangerously so than the other. So i find people like you extremely interesting. Why are you in here telling lies?

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

ebbsy wrote: »

There were 16 candidates worse than Trump bud.

Out of the two main parties Trump was probably the worst candidate along with Bernie Sanders.

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

Out of the two main parties Trump was probably the worst candidate along with Bernie Sanders.

Why was Bernie worse than Hillary?

Pickpocket

If Trump was sharper and more articulate he could have absolutely skewered Hilary at various points, irrespective of his other limitations.

At one stage she was criticising him for being a birther and for his treatment of Obama, despite how disgracefully she herself treated Obama in 2007/08, including that leaked photo of him in ethnic garb, which effectively tried to marshall people's racism and xenophobia for her own ends.

Trump quite rightly pulled her up on it, but you can only imagine what a skilled orator and clever tactician would have done with those moments. But Trump just doesn't have that in the locker. Thankfully, some would say, as he's certainly the lesser of two evils.

ebbsy

Trump seems to have the ability in this campaign to get over setbacks.

He might do it again.

Pickpocket

There's something fresh about watching a man in a position of power that has no buffer between his brain and his mouth. He honestly calls it as he sees it. Of course he's utterly loathsome and what he says is often morally reprehensible, but I can see why so many people are attracted to the idea of a non-politician becoming president. I can only imagine living in the US where politicians are, or at least try, to be so silky smooth and PRed from head to toe. And then this guy arrives full of spit and bile. It's pretty obvious why he's captured people's imaginations.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

RobertKK wrote: »

Why was Bernie worse than Hillary?

His economic policies were a joke that relied on the ridiculous assumption of 5% growth and would have resulted in an even bigger debt increase than Trump's policies. His policies and speeches show that he had a very poor understanding of the things he was talking about. He had some absurd ideas about the financial industry and the Federal Reserve. His foreign policy was also non-existent.

He was a nonsense candidate just like Trump is.

ebbsy

Suryavarman wrote: »

His economic policies were a joke that relied on the ridiculous assumption of 5% growth and would have resulted in an even bigger debt increase than Trump's policies. His policies and speeches show that he had a very poor understanding of the things he was talking about. He had some absurd ideas about the financial industry and the Federal Reserve. His foreign policy was also non-existent.

He was a nonsense candidate just like Trump is.

He did win a lot of states however.

Saipanne

Just watching it now, Trump is awful. A rambling fool.

nc6000

Saipanne wrote:

Just watching it now, Trump is awful. A rambling fool.

Yep. I stayed up to watch it and couldn't believe how poorly he performed. Clinton wiped the floor with him.

I saw a few minutes of Pence being interviewed on CNN earlier today and he was much better at answering questions than Trump was last night.

Frank Bullitt

Hillary will win narrowly

nc6000 wrote: »

Yep. I stayed up to watch it and couldn't believe how poorly he performed. Clinton wiped the floor with him.

I saw a few minutes of Pence being interviewed on CNN earlier today and he was much better at answering questions than Trump was last night.

Thats the difference between an actual politician and Trump.

briany

Trump will win big

Question: What did Hillary do last night that Donald's rivals for the Republican nomination could not? Last night, Trump practically buried himself, and all Hillary had to do was just come across a semi-responsible stateswoman with a handle on her policies. Took all his bluster in stride. How incompetent must have Jeb and the gang been that they couldn't seize upon Trump's glaringly obvious faults in the same way and beat him out? These were put-together people, experienced in politics and yet they were totally flustered by the man, or at least to the degree that the public chose him over any of the rest of them.

nc6000

briany wrote:

Question: What did Hillary do last night that Donald's rivals for the Republican nomination could not? Last night, Trump practically buried himself, and all Hillary had to do was just come across a semi-responsible stateswoman with a handle on her policies. Took all his bluster in stride. How incompetent must have Jeb and the gang been that they couldn't seize upon Trump's glaringly obvious faults in the same way and beat him out? These were put-together people, experienced in politics and yet they were totally flustered by the man, or at least to the degree that the public chose him over any of the rest of them.

Were there too many of them all too busy worrying about each other and not taking Trump seriously. He ended up with all the momentum and anyone left in the race were too far behind to do anything about him.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

The same reason the Tea Party happened and the same reason they ripped Boehner out of his seat and almost couldn't scrap together his replacement - and the same reason said replacement and many others are habitually called RINOs for doing moderate/political things.

It's because the GOP is a squabbling mob of fools that only agree that they don't like Democrats. That's as deep as the bonds run.

BorneTobyWilde

Trump will win narrowly

I didn't see it all saw first half. Trump was great, was it the second half that was bad for him/>?

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I didn't see it all saw first half. Trump was great, was it the second half that was bad for him/>?

It was all bad. He walked into Clinton so many times she managed to hit him with comeback after comeback for one. He also spent the debate rambling about not paying taxes, not denying global warming (he did) and wanting to stop and frisk people for guns (because 2nd amendment?) he was all over the place.

RobertKK

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I didn't see it all saw first half. Trump was great, was it the second half that was bad for him/>?

Yes, strong start, then downhill from there.

But I don't think many care, I think it is like Brexit, the Remain were better in my opinion in the debates but you know how that turned out.

In 2012, Romney won the first debate, went 4% ahead in the polls, then lost the gains.

Then on twitter one of the top trends is #TrumpWon... lots of spin in the campaign.

PressRun

Trump was painfully out of his depth. Clinton ran rings around him, tbh. He doesn't seem to know what to do with himself if there isn't a pantomime crowd jeering and whooping and booing at his every word.

Inquitus

Hillary will win narrowly

PressRun wrote: »

Trump was painfully out of his depth. Clinton ran rings around him, tbh. He doesn't seem to know what to do with himself if there isn't a pantomime crowd jeering and whooping and booing at his every word.

Does it matter? that's the key question, I guess the polls will tell us towards the start of next week.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

If trump follows the advice of some GOP/pundits (eg. Rudy "nine eleven" Giuliani) and doesn't attend the next two debates, do you think the election commission will host an empty podium, or will his spot be taken by Gary Johnson and/or Jill Stein?

That would be awfully sweet, the electorate would assume he wasn't serious after all (which is true)

BorneTobyWilde

Trump will win narrowly

Official polls only looks at same olde people time and again. You can't argue with online polls that have 600,00 plus votes who say Trump won 60% - 40% . This is a new age and you would disregard those clicks at your peril .
Every online poll says Trump won, the fact that the same olde political type polls says Clinton won is just typical, and it's exactly what the majority is sick of, same old opinions by all talk and no action experts /

Inquitus

Hillary will win narrowly

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Official polls only looks at same olde people time and again. You can't argue with online polls that have 600,00 plus votes who say Trump won 60% - 40% . This is a new age and you would disregard those clicks at your peril .
Every online poll says Trump won, the fact that the same olde political type polls says Clinton won is just typical, and it's exactly what the majority is sick of, same old opinions by all talk and no action experts /

So we should disregard proper methodical polling for online polls that 4chan or whoever can manipulate for the craic? BoatyMcBoatFace, Justin Bieber to do a benefit gig in Pyongyang?

BorneTobyWilde

Trump will win narrowly

Inquitus wrote: »

So we should disregard proper methodical polling for online polls that 4chan or whoever can manipulate for the craic? BoatyMcBoatFace, Justin Bieber to do a benefit gig in Pyongyang?

No true polls yet. The media are saying Clinton won with nothing to back that up, just same old experts.
1.2 million votes on CNBC website , Trump at 68% Clinton 32% .
That is a huge amount of people saying Trump won.

nc6000

BorneTobyWilde wrote:

No true polls yet. The media are saying Clinton won with nothing to back that up, just same old experts. 1.2 million votes on CNBC website , Trump at 68% Clinton 32% . That is a huge amount of people saying Trump won.

How anyone can honestly think Trump won that debate is beyond me. He was dreadful.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

No true polls yet. The media are saying Clinton won with nothing to back that up, just same old experts.
1.2 million votes on CNBC website , Trump at 68% Clinton 32% .
That is a huge amount of people saying Trump won.

do you know how affordable a click farm is? especially to a 'billionaire' who is obsessed with polls

InTheTrees

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

1.2 million votes on CNBC website , Trump at 68% Clinton 32% .
That is a huge amount of people saying Trump won.

Okay. So?

I'm sure a lot of trump's supporters still support trump.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

classic polling is always ripped on every cycle, and always vindicated every cycle, and always used every cycle by the same people who rip them the moment the polls say something that supports their narrative.

The polls are slow to collect and process relative to web polling but as mentioned above, its not a 'popularity contest' of how many people can vote for Boaty McBoatface or the USS Harambe, it follows the same statistical methods in order to more accurately gauge what the electorate as the whole would likely appear to be reflected as, rather than just the 2m or so who click on a poll, which can be skewed.

Inquitus

Hillary will win narrowly

Some good insight into last nights reddit and 4chan public poll manipulations - http://www.dailydot.com/layer8/trump-clinton-debate-online-polls-4chan-the-donald/

In this latest incarnation, multiple Reddit users enlisted the Trump-supporting masses on r/The_Donald, which has over 200,000 subscribers, by posting dozens of online polls that are vulnerable to vote brigading, bots, and other forms of manipulation that make these non-scientific surveys notoriously unreliable.

On 4chan's /pol/ board, users similarly shared links to active polls along with instructions for how to maximize their impact on the results.

Reddits The_Donald is a goldmine....

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

I don't think anyone who actually watched the debate last night has had a shadow of a doubt about that even once during the day.

Inquitus

Hillary will win narrowly

Billy86 wrote: »

I don't think anyone who actually watched the debate last night has had a shadow of a doubt about that even once during the day.

I agree, my main concern is that enough voters don't actually give a **** about whats he says, his facts, his track record, his debate performances, and much like Brexit just want to vote anti-establishment in Nov, and that may well carry the election, it certainly seems Trump has been able to enthuse the poor, and poorly educated, especially White populations to go out and vote in higher numbers than ever before, and polls don't pick that up in their sampling, they go with historical turnouts with a bit of model tuning. Couple that with a Black and minority vote underturnout, as Obama is not there, to enthuse them and get out the vote for an underwhelming Hillary, and you can see how Trump can win this.

chillin117

Trump always remind me of this...

12 steps of Narcissists Anonymous.

1. We admitted we were powerless over how great we are–and making other people’s lives unmanageable.
2. We came to believe that there is no power greater than ourselves and everyone else must be restored to sanity to recognize how great we are.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Ourselves. (We might need some narcissistic supply from you from time to time to keep ourselves propped up, however.)
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves and found nothing wrong with our morals.
5. Admitted to God (who’s God anyway? Me?), to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our superiority over others.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove any stray defects of character from us and project them onto others.
7. Humbly asked Him to keep blessing us with more power over others.
8. Made a list of all persons we want to harm, and became willing to manipulate and torment them all.
9. Did not make direct amends to other people at any time, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly denied it.
11. Sought through navel-gazing and meditation on ourselves how to improve our conscious contact with Ourselves as we understood us to be, praying only for knowledge that will enable us to one day become Gods ourselves.
12. Having realized we were magnificent specimens of perfect humanity, we tried to carry this message to everyone we come into contact with, especially those who are under our thrall. We continued to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Christy42

Hillary will win narrowly

Honestly if Trump wins it will say more about 51% American public eligible to vote. The man lied through his teeth for 90 minutes and contradicted himself on his taxes a few minutes after. It isn't even like you have to do much research for any of this either.

John OlIver had a point a while back that Trump doesn't so much lie as just say things. He cares about the truth as a duck cares about the next justice on the supreme Court. It seems the public have had enough of various politician's excuses and crafted lies and want someone to unashamedly and incredibly obviously lie for the sake of it.

I have no issue with going for someone who isn't a career politician but surely you should go for someone who has the slightest clue what the position involves. He showed first hand he has no idea what is going on in the world in the debate. He just rambled and interrupted Hillary a lot. He also seems like a conspiracy nut with the Chinese fabricating global warming and his birthed nonsense. I am sure his first act as president will be to arrest George W. for 9/11.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

Vox have an article challenging this nonsense narrative that Trump won the opening 30 minutes.

Stylistically, this section was Trump’s best portion of the debate. He kept slamming Clinton on NAFTA — "the worst trade deal maybe ever signed anywhere” — and spoke with the confidence of a man who knew what he was talking about.

But he didn’t know what he was talking about.

What was stylistically Trump’s best portion of the debate was substantively among his worst (I say among his worst because it is hard to beat the section where he said he both would and would not honor the NATO treaty, and then said he both would and would not adhere to the first-strike doctrine on nuclear weapons). Trump was arguing the central economic theory of his campaign — and he was just wrong. In a section that began with him demanding solutions for our economic woes, he showed himself completely confused as to the nature of not just our economic problems but the underlying labor market.

The tone of his voice and the confidence of his delivery shouldn’t distract us from the hollowness of his remarks.

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

Vox have an article challenging this nonsense narrative that Trump won the opening 30 minutes.

CNN showed Clinton lied when she denied the claims by Trump that she called TPP the 'gold standard'.

Trump was winning points on her in the first part of the debate.

Christy42

Hillary will win narrowly

RobertKK wrote: »

CNN showed Clinton lied when she denied the claims by Trump that she called TPP the 'gold standard'.

Trump was winning points on her in the first part of the debate.

The slightly larger issue of Trump not knowing what Nafta is remains.

In any case I think it is happening because they need to sell the next two debates and part of that is convincing people there is a serious chance that Trump won't just be made look like an idiot again.

ebbsy

Even today Trump is all over the media with this beauty contest nonsense. Refusing to apologise as well.

And Hillary ? Towards the middle pages.

I would be interested to know how far these debates will shape the outcome in November.

I still think a surprise could be in the offing.

cowboyBuilder

You think Anderson Cooper will do a better job at moderating than Lester Holt ?

despite working for CNN , I think he will ..

Amerika

Amerika wrote: »

Seems Americans do have a good grip on what is going to happen in the debates.

• 46% of likely US voters believes most moderators will try to help Clinton in the upcoming debates.
• 6% think the moderators will try to help Trump.
• 32% say most of the moderators will try to be unbiased.
• 15% are undecided.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2016/voters_see_debate_moderators_giving_clinton_a_helping_hand

The American people knew what they were talking about! Trump participated in a two-on-one debate... against both Hillary Clinton and against moderator Lester Holt doing everything he could to assist Hillary Clinton and put Trump on the defensive.

Lets see... what questions did we see posed to Trump: His tax returns - check, Birtherism – check, Stop and frisk – check, Trump’s Iraq war support – check (which Holt got wrong on his ‘fact-checking’), and Hillary’s awesomeness – check.

And let's also see... what questions should have been posed to Hillary: Immigration – nothing, the Clinton Foundation and pay-to-play charges – nothing, Benghazi – nothing, Unsecure email server – nothing, Clinton’s record as Secretary of State – nothing, Clinton’s support of the Iraq War – nothing, and Clinton’s “Basket of Deplorables” attack on Trump supporters – nothing.

Holt interrupted Trump 41 times, in order to ask a follow-up question or to “fact-check.” Hillary was only interrupted 7 times during the debate.

The good news is Lester Holt’s performance was worthy of four more years of invitations to Manhattan Upper East Side cocktail parties.

But I do give Hillary the win on the debate FOR subjects Americans don’t care about.