Trump vs. Hillary - the 1st Debate. Live on C4, Sky and BBC News

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Which lies do you think Lester would have been prepared to jump at Clinton for?

He shouldn't have jumped on either candidate. It should have been the job of both candidates to go after each others 'lies.' If you are going to cherry pick, than keep your mouth shut and let the candidates duke it out.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

He shouldn't have jumped on either candidate. It should have been the job of both candidates to go after each others 'lies.' If you are going to cherry pick, than keep your mouth shut and let the candidates duke it out.

Then we get 90 minutes of childish "I never said that. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong."

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Then we get 90 minutes of childish "I never said that. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong."

Not if you stick to Point-Counterpoint-Rebuttal.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

Not if you stick to Point-Counterpoint-Rebuttal.

Yeah. Because Trump is going to stick to that.

Amerika

Suryavarman wrote: »

Yeah. Because Trump is going to stick to that.

Guilty until proven innocent, eh?

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

Guilty until proven innocent, eh?

Well I mean during the debate he proved he couldn't sting together coherent debate responses. And his advisors have come out lamenting his lack of attention span during prep. So it's not unusual to think he couldn't maintain in a debate without moderation. Especially given him interrupting his opponent 51 times to 17

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Overheal wrote: »

Which lies do you think Lester would have been prepared to jump at Clinton for?

How about when Clinton claimed she was NEVER in favour of the TPP, like Trump claimed he was NEVER in favour of Iraq?

Oh, wait, sh*t... One of those happened, and the other didn't.

I highlighted this posters "expert links" post for a reason. They're either willingly being disingenuous (at best) or are simply detached from reality.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Well I mean during the debate he proved he couldn't sting together coherent debate responses. And his advisors have come out lamenting his lack of attention span during prep. So it's not unusual to think he couldn't maintain in a debate without moderation. Especially given him interrupting his opponent 51 times to 17

Well, in that case perhaps we should just throw him in a cage, cattle prod him once in a while, and proceed directly to Hillary's coronation. You know, since he can't be expected to act human, or anything. :pac:

AbusesToilets

alastair wrote: »

Except Hillary didn't lie. Women still earn less than men in the USA. That's the reality, and presumably there's room for additional legislation or initiatives to tackle that mismatch. Hillary didn't accuse Trump of lieing about her position on TTP - she clarified that she was for it before she was agin it - the final draft not being to her satisfaction or whatever. Now that may well be political spin, but it doesn't need to be fact checked, because it's true (she changed her position). Trump on the other hand told clear porkies. There's the distinction.

The wage gap argument has been shown to be inaccurate and misleading.

http://https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/04/14/here-are-the-facts-behind-that-79-cent-pay-gap-factoid/

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

Well, in that case perhaps we should just throw him in a cage, cattle prod him once in a while, and proceed directly to Hillary's coronation. You know, since he can't be expected to act human, or anything. :pac:

So you concede the point: you need a moderator with Trump

Christy42

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

But Holt didn't call Hillary out on her lies. And yes, if there was a gray area on any of the points, Holt should have kept his mouth shut, and it should have been up to Hillary or Trump to challenge each other. It should have been a one on one debate, not Trump against Hillary/Holt.

If a canfidste can't back it up then Holt should call them out on it.

What lies did Hillary spout? The wage gap is still there (I agree the 79c thing is over egged but that does not mean there isn't a wage gap). Especially when you consider that there are reasons that women still struggle to get into the higher paying jobs.
http://gender.stanford.edu/news/2014/why-does-john-get-stem-job-rather-jennifer

AbusesToilets

Christy42 wrote: »

If a canfidste can't back it up then Holt should call them out on it.

What lies did Hillary spout? The wage gap is still there (I agree the 79c thing is over egged but that does not mean there isn't a wage gap). Especially when you consider that there are reasons that women still struggle to get into the higher paying jobs.
http://gender.stanford.edu/news/2014/why-does-john-get-stem-job-rather-jennifer

What is any president going to do to over come whatever narrow pay gap that exists? Hardly a pressing issue relative to the multitude of areas in need of attention.

I would be far more concerned about their ideas for improving the economy, dealing with climate change or countering Russia's activities.

4068ac1elhodqr

Trump will win narrowly

T-9 days for round 2 of the sparring match, would like to see a bit of mixed testing in this round:

Meds test
Basic IQ test
Concealed earpieces test
Fitness test e.g. 100m on threadmill in a leisurely 30secs
International leaders test*

* just heard about the Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson that was unable to even name a single foreign leader anywhere) yesterday on MSNBC

Christy42

Hillary will win narrowly

AbusesToilets wrote: »

What is any president going to do to over come whatever narrow pay gap that exists? Hardly a pressing issue relative to the multitude of areas in need of attention.

I would be far more concerned about their ideas for improving the economy, dealing with climate change or countering Russia's activities.

You can certainly argue as to whether or not the pay gap is an important issue. However my question was about when did Hillary lie (and refuting the example Amerika had already given in the wage gap).

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

In summary, after the debate Trump said "Lester Holt did a great job", it was "very fair" but in the spin room said he had a defective mic, and denied the next day having the sniffles. He and his surrogates (and, people on this forum...) paraded online polling data, saying he won, etc.

Now, the camp has Trumped the script, predictably, and now crying the debate was rigged, that Lester Holt is a plant, pinning microphone conspiracies on clinton, etc.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/after-initially-calling-it-very-fair-trump-now-says-debate-was-rigged/

It would be amusing if it wasn't so predictable, like his claim the election is rigged if he loses PA

PopePalpatine

Trump will win big

Overheal wrote: »

Well I mean during the debate he proved he couldn't sting together coherent debate responses. And his advisors have come out lamenting his lack of attention span during prep. So it's not unusual to think he couldn't maintain in a debate without moderation. Especially given him interrupting his opponent 51 times to 17

It's funny you should mention his lack of attention span:

The New Yorker's interview with Trump's ghost writer, Tony Schwartz wrote:

[Trump] looked fidgety, Schwartz recalls, “like a kindergartner who can’t sit still in a classroom.” Even when Schwartz pressed him, Trump seemed to remember almost nothing of his youth, and made it clear that he was bored. Far more quickly than Schwartz had expected, Trump ended the meeting.

Week after week, the pattern repeated itself. Schwartz tried to limit the sessions to smaller increments of time, but Trump’s contributions remained oddly truncated and superficial.

“Trump has been written about a thousand ways from Sunday, but this fundamental aspect of who he is doesn’t seem to be fully understood,” Schwartz told me. “It’s implicit in a lot of what people write, but it’s never explicit—or, at least, I haven’t seen it. And that is that it’s impossible to keep him focussed on any topic, other than his own self-aggrandizement, for more than a few minutes, and even then . . . ” Schwartz trailed off, shaking his head in amazement. He regards Trump’s inability to concentrate as alarming in a Presidential candidate. “If he had to be briefed on a crisis in the Situation Room, it’s impossible to imagine him paying attention over a long period of time,” he said.

Source

Count Dooku

Overheal wrote: »

In summary, after the debate Trump said "Lester Holt did a great job", it was "very fair" but in the spin room said he had a defective mic, and denied the next day having the sniffles. He and his surrogates (and, people on this forum...) paraded online polling data, saying he won, etc.

Now, the camp has Trumped the script, predictably, and now crying the debate was rigged, that Lester Holt is a plant, pinning microphone conspiracies on clinton, etc.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/after-initially-calling-it-very-fair-trump-now-says-debate-was-rigged/

It would be amusing if it wasn't so predictable, like his claim the election is rigged if he loses PA

And Clinton will blame Putin if she lose

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

I doubt she'd make any such claim.

But on the subject of getting to people, it seems Hillary knows her opponent's psychology very well, and the Miss Universe bit really seems to have shaken him.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/trumps-4-part-twitter-blather-today-takes-aim-at-clinton-machado-the-media-all-before-6-a-m/

Trump didn't get much sleep last night, as he was too busy tossing and turning about the whole thing, along with other bad press which was the result of his own undoing/reactions.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781755469488615424
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781784161044553728
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781785509639118848
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781788223055994880
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781838706030313472
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781861632167256064

And still continuing to call her "disgusting" while trying to rationalize the facts earlier this week on FOX by clarifying 'the reason I called her Ms Piggy is because she put on weight' as if "oh, that's forgivable."

He's going to do stellar with the women vote. He might want to think about a nap though, it will be interesting if he is seen much of today.

I'd say at this point the only reason he is still in this thing is the nightmares that keep him up at night: because when he loses this thing, he will never be free of the moniker, LOSER.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Ah there he is, calling someone disgusting for having a sex tape. Funny, given Donald's daddy built up a big chunk of his wealth on brothels, while the Trump Taj Mahal was the first casino in the US to have an in-house strip club.

Yeah I mentioned it before, but just putting that in here before we get a response from a Trump fan not knowing (or pretending not to know) either of those two, clear facts.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

I doubt she'd make any such claim.

But on the subject of getting to people, it seems Hillary knows her opponent's psychology very well, and the Miss Universe bit really seems to have shaken him.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/trumps-4-part-twitter-blather-today-takes-aim-at-clinton-machado-the-media-all-before-6-a-m/

Trump didn't get much sleep last night, as he was too busy tossing and turning about the whole thing, along with other bad press which was the result of his own undoing/reactions.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781755469488615424
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781784161044553728
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781785509639118848
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781788223055994880
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781838706030313472
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781861632167256064

And still continuing to call her "disgusting" while trying to rationalize the facts earlier this week on FOX by clarifying 'the reason I called her Ms Piggy is because she put on weight' as if "oh, that's forgivable."

He's going to do stellar with the women vote. He might want to think about a nap though, it will be interesting if he is seen much of today.

I'd say at this point the only reason he is still in this thing is the nightmares that keep him up at night: because when he loses this thing, he will never be free of the moniker, LOSER.

Didn’t this girl have sex on a reality show, threaten a judge, and participate in a murder? She sure sounds like one of Hillary’s peeps. Maybe Hillary will have her sit next to Bill at the next debate.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

Didn’t this girl have sex on a reality show, threaten a judge, and participate in a murder? She sure sounds like one of Hillary’s peeps. Maybe Hillary will have her sit next to Bill at the next debate.

Nothing if not predictable... think he still has me on ignore for calling out his nonsense too often in the past. He mustn't have been fond of that.

Could someone be so kind as to point out Trump's strip clubs and Trump Sr's brothels clearly to him, so he cannot pretend he 'did not see them' like he has before on items he has already replied to? Cheers!



Also if someone could take him to task on his murder and judge threatening allegations, would be fun to see what he could come up with! Warning: He might put you on ignore.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

Didn’t this girl have sex on a reality show, threaten a judge, and participate in a murder?

You're the one asking.

Donald Trump wrote:

You tell me.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

You're the one asking.

So whenever I ask a question now, you expect me to answer it? Should that work both ways?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fmr-miss-universe-machado-on-allegation-she-was-a-murder-accomplice-im-not-a-saint-girl/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1875985/alicia-machado-live-sex-the-farm/

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

So whenever I ask a question now, you expect me to answer it? Should that work both ways?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fmr-miss-universe-machado-on-allegation-she-was-a-murder-accomplice-im-not-a-saint-girl/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1875985/alicia-machado-live-sex-the-farm/

I expect when you boyishly bring up a topic in the form of a question that I am not winning money on Jeopardy tonight.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

So if I understand you correctly, you accuse her of threatening a judge and participating in a murder. idc about sex, I'm not sure why that is politically relevant.

Your own links cite the daily mail which makes it clear that the allegations are contentious at best. She was never convicted of any crime it was never corroborated that she threatened the judge. It can easily be seen in the reporting of the incident is that she was never indicted, and according to her she called the judge to thank him for justice. After all, if the case was over I'm scratching my head wondering about why she would threaten the judge if she wasn't tried over it.

Nevermind that your remarks are a smokescreen for the issue of Trump being a serial misogynist. Not hard to believe when Grandpa owned brothels. Thats before we get into the fact that his father was most certainly a racist, likely a member of the KKK, and made a fortune defrauding the government. Him and his family are a leech on the american people, and you want him in the White House??

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

So if I understand you correctly, you accuse her of threatening a judge and participating in a murder. idc about sex, I'm not sure why that is politically relevant.

Your own links cite the daily mail which makes it clear that the allegations are contentious at best. She was never convicted of any crime it was never corroborated that she threatened the judge. It can easily be seen in the reporting of the incident is that she was never indicted, and according to her she called the judge to thank him for justice. After all, if the case was over I'm scratching my head wondering about why she would threaten the judge if she wasn't tried over it.

Nevermind that your remarks are a smokescreen for the issue of Trump being a serial misogynist. Not hard to believe when Grandpa owned brothels. Thats before we get into the fact that his father was most certainly a racist, likely a member of the KKK, and made a fortune defrauding the government. Him and his family are a leech on the american people, and you want him in the White House??

I don’t understand how you can interpret that from what I’ve posted.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

I don’t understand how you can interpret that from what I’ve posted.

I'm not shocked.

MediaITE sourced this article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3810484/Miss-Universe-fat-shamed-Donald-Trump-accused-threatening-kill-judge-accomplice-MURDER-native-Venezuela.html

Perhaps you should read it.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

I'm not shocked.

MediaITE sourced this article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3810484/Miss-Universe-fat-shamed-Donald-Trump-accused-threatening-kill-judge-accomplice-MURDER-native-Venezuela.html

Perhaps you should read it.

I was only commenting on the articles I've read and linked. Perhaps your beef should be with the media and maybe Miss Universe, herself. And where in the world did you come up with me providing some 'smokescreen' to cover that litany of stuff you posted? If you can direct me to where I did that, it would be much appreciated.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

Well I actually had my thumb out so I looked into the accusation, via the source for the derivative article you quoted, and it didn't take long to find out it was specious at best.

And here, where you respond to Trumps tweetstorm with misdirection

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=101209546&postcount=621

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

I was only commenting on the articles I've read and linked. Perhaps your beef should be with the media and maybe Miss Universe, herself.

Speaking for myself, my beef would be with someone who thinks the best way to respond to someone being called "Miss Piggy" and "Miss Housekeeping" is to somehow suggest that she deserved it.

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

Speaking for myself, my beef would be with someone who thinks the best way to respond to someone being called "Miss Piggy" and "Miss Housekeeping" is to somehow suggest that she deserved it.

What do you think of the 'basket of deplorables?'

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

What do you think of the 'basket of deplorables?'

I think it was both an ill-judged remark, and sadly true.

mickoneill31

Enoch Melodic Fishhook wrote: »

T-9 days for round 2 of the sparring match, would like to see a bit of mixed testing in this round:

Meds test
Basic IQ test
Concealed earpieces test
Fitness test e.g. 100m on threadmill in a leisurely 30secs
International leaders test*

* just heard about the Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson that was unable to even name a single foreign leader anywhere) yesterday on MSNBC

Johnson was admitted to name his favourite foreign leader. I'd have a hard time doing that too.
I couldn't even think of a local one.

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

I think it was both an ill-judged remark, and sadly true.

I give you kudos for your honesty. And speaking for myself, anyone who considers one-quarter of all Americans to be racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and irredeemable, should not be allowed anywhere near the White House and be a representative of the people. And again speaking for myself, I have no respect for anyone who agrees with her statement.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

anyone who considers one-quarter of all Americans to be racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and irredeemable

idk about irredeemable, but its really half of his supporters, which is far less than a quarter of the population. So numerically it checks out.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

mickoneill31 wrote: »

Johnson was admitted to name his favourite foreign leader. I'd have a hard time doing that too.
I couldn't even think of a local one.

Good thing you're not running for President of the United States.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

Amerika wrote: »

I give you kudos for your honesty. And speaking for myself, anyone who considers one-quarter of all Americans to be racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic, and irredeemable, should not be allowed anywhere near the White House and be a representative of the people. And again speaking for myself, I have no respect for anyone who agrees with her statement.

But it's pretty likely that one-quarter of the American population fits that description. Should people that are sexist, racist, xenophobic and Islamophobic be left near the White House?

bajer101

Big jump in the polls for Clinton since the first debate and she is now leading in all 11 swing States.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clintons-debate-performance-is-helping-her-in-swing-states/

Quin_Dub

bajer101 wrote: »

Big jump in the polls for Clinton since the first debate and she is now leading in all 11 swing States.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-clintons-debate-performance-is-helping-her-in-swing-states/

And RCP showing a sharp increase for Clinton as well..

The "No Toss-ups" view now shows 292-246 for Clinton..

It was 272-264 just last week..

Pretty significant shift...

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Many saw what happened in the debates coming a long while off due to how predictable Trump's nature is. Makes you wonder what they'll look like after two more of that. I mean, once those millions of dollars he is going to court over having defrauded from the American public comes up -- and it will do at some point -- the meltdown could be catastrophic. His advisors must be bricking themselves at the prospect.

I still think there's a good chance he throws outright slurs like 'whore' at Clinton at some point before they're done.

bajer101

Quin_Dub wrote: »

And RCP showing a sharp increase for Clinton as well..

The "No Toss-ups" view now shows 292-246 for Clinton..

It was 272-264 just last week..

Pretty significant shift...

It's a very significant shift. The die hard Trump supporters don't realise how badly Trump came across in that debate. They are used to him talking like that. But the undecideds who were tuning into the election for the first time wouldn't have been used to him and would have been shocked. I watched the debate live and about halfway through I reckoned it was game over for Trump.

Overheal

Hillary will win narrowly

Can't make this up...

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Can someone tag Trump's campaign and get them to delete that tweet, like they did the China climate change conspiracy one while the debate was going on live?

bajer101

Even the Fox News Poll says that Trump lost the debate.

https://twitter.com/FrankLuntz/status/782275287853649920

https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/782272398028525569

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

bajer101 wrote: »

Even the Fox News Poll says that Trump lost the debate.

Clearly something wrong here. All the polls straight after the debate said that Trump won. The Clinton controlled mainstream media has obviously manipulated everything.