Trump vs. Hillary - the 1st Debate. Live on C4, Sky and BBC News

intellectual dosser

RobertKK wrote: »

Trump has won most online polls.
This is an indication of whose supporters are more fired up, and clearly Trump has the most passionate support which makes them more likely to vote in the election that counts.

I think its only going to be in the last week that US voters actually tell themselves that the campaigns have been a wild ride but its time to do some soul searching and pick one.

I'd expect most of these 'undecideds' to lean towards Hillary as the devil they know.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

RobertKK wrote: »

Trump has won most online polls.
This is an indication of whose supporters are more fired up, and clearly Trump has the most passionate support which makes them more likely to vote in the election that counts.

Ah yes, the old Ron Paul route to victory.

Laois_Man

Regarding the above poll. Clinton won, but neither narrowly nor by a huge margin. Something in between in my view. You might think Trump will have learned from this debate and be better in the next one, but you'd have thought he'd have already learned by now. Clinton is likely to succeed again in winning the second debate just by winding Trump up and letting him talk himself into trouble. But she also could do with more substance herself. She needs to be severely smacked down the first time she tells people to go to www.hillaryclinton.com to see her policies and the next moderator needs to do that. immediately!

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

Ah yes, the old Ron Paul route to victory.

It also reflects polls which show whose supporters are very enthusiastic about their candidate.
Most recent poll was something like
Trump 43%
Clinton 35%

briany

Trump will win big

Jaysus. I've never seen the like of this from a major political candidate. Trump basically bragging about tax-dodging. He'd better hope that his voter base of angry white people is large enough because after this showing I'd say he's done otherwise. Nothing of substance in his words at all.

RobertKK

Michael Moore claims Trump won.

https://twitter.com/mmflint/status/780598487729729536

briany

Trump will win big

briany wrote: »

Jaysus. I've never seen the like of this from a major political candidate. Trump basically bragging about tax-dodging. He'd better hope that his voter base of angry white people is large enough because after this showing I'd say he's done otherwise. Nothing of substance in his words at all.

*gulp* Well if this poll is anything to go by, his base is big enough, or he has somehow won more favour with his pretty empty words. Worrying for America, and I suppose the world in general, if it's at the point where one guy can lose a debate in traditional terms as Trump did, but yet have perhaps won in spite of that. In spite of admitting not paying taxes and not paying employees. Romney's 47 percent, or whatever, gaffe has nothing on the Donald :pac:.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

InTheTrees

briany wrote: »

Jaysus. I've never seen the like of this from a major political candidate. Trump basically bragging about tax-dodging.

Given the trouble he's got into over not releasing his tax returns that was the craziest statement of the entire night.

RobertKK

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I think its only going to be in the last week that US voters actually tell themselves that the campaigns have been a wild ride but its time to do some soul searching and pick one.

I'd expect most of these 'undecideds' to lean towards Hillary as the devil they know.

The October surprise....

Trump is bankrupt.
Clinton's carelessness gave top level secret information to the Russians or Chinese.
Trump pays no tax.
Clinton is dying.


You can expect anything between now and election day.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

RobertKK wrote: »

Michael Moore claims Trump won.

https://twitter.com/mmflint/status/780598487729729536

You're really grasping at straws now. And you tried to claim that I'm biased.

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

I think we have to remind people to up the standard of posts and also, please dont make things personal.

Brian?

Hillary will win narrowly

RobertKK wrote: »

Michael Moore claims Trump won.

https://twitter.com/mmflint/status/780598487729729536

I've a feeling Moore is playing the scaremonger here. Attempting to energise apathetic Dem voters.

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

You're really grasping at straws now. And you tried to claim that I'm biased.

Did I say he was right?

I did not even say that in my opinion of the debate, my opinion remains that Trump started strongly, then Clinton took over.

In reality this election is about who the American people dislike the least, as I don't think most Americans think they are be giving a good choice and probably wondered last night 'how did we end up here with Donald and Hillary?'

Michael Moore has been claiming for a while that Trump will win the election, maybe he is going around doing a new Fahrenheit 911 and this is what he sees.
Maybe he sees the poll trends and believe this changes nothing, people got the Trump they expected - and when you look at it, the Trump that people expected is the Trump that has momentum in the polls.

This election is so messed up.

You have Clinton who feels entitled to the presidency who in the past week said she was surprised she was not 50 points up giving who her challengers are.
Then you have Trump who hijacked the Republican party and has them now playing his tune.
What is even more messed up is how disliked both of the main candidates are.
I grasped at no straws, I was surprised with Michael Moore but he seems to want to stick to his claims that this election is going to Trump.

Peist2007

Suryavarman wrote: »

You're really grasping at straws now. And you tried to claim that I'm biased.

He is right about that. You're a rabid Clinton fan.

Atomicjuicer0

Watched the whole thing this morning and Clinton destroyed him.

Sadly twitter is filled with hashtag trump win garbage so it could be an anti-intellectualism situation like Brexit.

I bet that if Clinton had walked across the stage and started punching the sh1 t out of Trump, wrapped her legs around him and dragged him to the floor she would get all the US votes.

I'm actually not even kidding.

She needs to up her entertainment game big time if she wants to win.

He's doing mad sh1 t, she needs to do something attention-grabbing for the plebs.

Or maybe I don't understand the American mindset and common sense will prevail. Regardless of philosophical differences she's clearly the superior candidate.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

Peist2007 wrote: »

He is right about that. You're a rabid Clinton fan.

Hardly. There were 4 or 5 candidates on the Republican side I would have preferred over Trump or Clinton. I just don't fall for the nonsense that Clinton is a terrible candidate nor did I hold Trump to a lower standard like most others seem to be doing.

I said multiple times over the last few days that Clinton would get under his skin and he wouldn't be able to resist taking the bait. He did that in his very first rebuttal where he couldn't help but reply to Clinton's "$14m loan" comment and talk about how rich he is. I know enough about economics to know that his comments about trade were complete nonsense. I also was looking for telltale signs that he would act like the unhinged loon he is like falling for Clinton's bait in his very first rebuttal. Perhaps this is why I don't think he so much as started the debate strongly, never mind win the thing.

Peist2007

Suryavarman wrote: »

I said multiple times over the last few days

Indeed you did. Hence my comment. No need to go into it all again but scoffing at someone for suggesting you have a Clinton bias is a little rich. Just hope you are around and happy to answer queries on Clinton over the next 4 years.

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

Hardly. There were 4 or 5 candidates on the Republican side I would have preferred over Trump or Clinton. I just don't fall for the nonsense that Clinton is a terrible candidate nor did I hold Trump to a lower standard like most others seem to be doing.

I said multiple times over the last few days that Clinton would get under his skin and he wouldn't be able to resist taking the bait. He did that in his very first rebuttal where he couldn't help but reply to Clinton's "$14m loan" comment and talk about how rich he is. I know enough about economics to know that his comments about trade were complete nonsense. I also was looking for telltale signs that he would act like the unhinged loon he is like falling for Clinton's bait in his very first rebuttal. Perhaps this is why I don't think he so much as started the debate strongly, never mind win the thing.

If you don't believe Hillary Clinton is not a terrible candidate, then why is the election so close?
Trump is a terrible candidate given the Republicans should be winning this easily.
Even on the BBC their US correspondent said a lot of people will be holding their noses when they do go and vote.

You said you know enough about economics and I am still waiting to see where Trump was wrong about US companies keeping their money abroad given if they bring it home they pay somewhere around 35% tax on it, and companies are keeping over $2 trillion abroad.
Was Trump wrong?

Was Trump wrong when he said the reason the stock market is at record highs because of record low interest rates and action by the Fed which included QE?

I asked you to say where Trump was wrong in regard to this earlier, you claim you have a know how of economics but have simply said Trump is wrong without answering these questions.

He wants to move US corporation tax to 17%, which is just 4.5% higher than ours.
Should Ireland move to a 30% + corporation tax rate like the Democrats seem to want to keep over there.
Which makes more sense given the US multinationals who keep trillions of taxable dollars abroad?
The system that keeps the money abroad, or give them a reason to bring it back to the US and give them reason to invest more in the US?

alastair

Walter H Price wrote: »

Either way America will continue to grow its national debt and one of the most divided society will become even more divided ,

This notion that the country is so divided is so much hooey. It's no more divided than it ever was. Have a look at the '68, '72 or '80 elections for real ideological divides in the platforms. Trump is a RINO candidate when all is said and done. The racial and economic divide in the US is less pronounced than many other nations, and tbh, racially it's in the best place it's ever been in - despite the light being shone on police killings etc. The whole chicken lickin routine about the place going to hell in a hand basket really doesn't tally with the facts on the ground.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

Peist2007 wrote: »

Indeed you did. Hence my comment. No need to go into it all again but scoffing at someone for suggesting you have a Clinton bias is a little rich. Just hope you are around and happy to answer queries on Clinton over the next 4 years.

If the standard of debate from the pro-Trump crowd wasn't so low I wouldn't have to scoff so much.

Why would I answer queries on her? I'm not going to be the White House Press Secretary. The only people that will have questions to answer is the Republican primary voters for nominating a candidate as weak as Trump.

conditioned games

Atomicjuicer0 wrote: »

Watched the whole thing this morning and Clinton destroyed him.

Sadly twitter is filled with hashtag trump win garbage so it could be an anti-intellectualism situation like Brexit.

I bet that if Clinton had walked across the stage and started punching the sh1 t out of Trump, wrapped her legs around him and dragged him to the floor she would get all the US votes.

I'm actually not even kidding.

She needs to up her entertainment game big time if she wants to win.

He's doing mad sh1 t, she needs to do something attention-grabbing for the plebs.

Or maybe I don't understand the American mindset and common sense will prevail. Regardless of philosophical differences she's clearly the superior candidate.

The real plebs here are those that believe the lies the current establishment tell us through a biased media. Hillary may sound like she is saying all the right things but it still doesn't change the fact we are on the wrong path. Trump highlights how bad things are that never gets a platform like this. Trump is the alternative to this current mess we are heading towards and for that reason he still stands a good chance of winning this.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Walter H Price wrote: »

I'm still really not sure he is bigoted or racist , he has dated a number of women of different nationality's and colors , his company's employ people of all race and he has Jewish grandchildren.

He has issues with illegal immigration from Latin america via the southern border but then again having lived in Texas on my J1 this is a common feeling there where this immigration has a massively negative impact particularly on unskilled workers ( no minimum wage so illegal immigrant can sell there labor far cheaper to employers willing to take the risk). Illeagls do bring a huge amount of crime and drugs to theese community's tooo , that's not racist that's just a fact.He dosn't articulate this point well , but then neither do most of the people he is looking for votes from.

The ban on Islamic immigration he's spoken about (again not articulated well) could well be the right idea , it is certainly preferable to situations like the jungle in Calais or the tension islamic immigration is causing in France , Germany , Sweeden and the UK at present or Sadique Kahs view that islamic terrorism is now just a fact of life in big urban centers, i don't accept that view either.

Both candidates have huge grey areas when it comes to women's and gay rights , Clinton talks a good game but is still an alli of Saudi Arabia , not quite the most progressive place in terms of gender and sexual equality given you can still face public execution for homosexuality and being a rape victim, domestically she has also publicly derided a number of women who have made claims of sexual harassment against old bill. Trump agin has a number of Gay friends etc elton John among them but he has a huge respect for Putin who again is not the most progressive on LGBT rights.

To write Trump off as just a Racist Bigott is wrong and comes accross as a vey one dimensioal simplisic view , hes an egomaniac and a bad candidate but i think the word's racisit and bigott are thrown about to easily thees days , they've somewhat lost their meaning. Also Obama as the first colored president has overseen a growing racial devide in America not seen since the 1960's , not a racist but definitely part of the problem and not the solution.

As i said in a previous post neither of thees two candidates are the solution to anything either , Hillary hasnt the best track record and is more of the same (that's not working) and Trump is an absolute wild card wholly unfit to be president

He has repeatedly been found guilty of racism in court.

Illegal immigration is OT only going down, but there are significantly less than there were 10-15 years ago. The current system is currently working.

His Muslim plan is ISIS' wet dream in terms of recruitment. Watch their products and mine certainly skyrocket if he wins the election.

Not to say Clinton is great by any stretch, but his proposals are as I'll thought out and poorly researched as his inane ramblings were throughout the debate last night.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Trump is lucky there is such a strong anti-pc, anti-establishment, anti-illegal-immigration sentiment, more than there ever has been. And there are a lot of legitimate concerns from the people who will vote for him that i agree with (not things trumps says but reasons people have hitched to his wagon), but he's just not the guy. Under no circumstances is he the guy.

I think that sentiment will remain and get stronger with Hillary elected. The republicans just need a serviceable candidate who can latch on to the above sentiment and she'll be gone after one term. She will probably be the least popular president from day one that I can think of. The only question is can the republicans suppress their appetite for a bible-thumping slimeball (ala ted cruz).

My money is on a Clinton win, followed by a Paul Ryan landslide victory in 2020.

Though if click ton wins, and I'm being honest, I would half expect the GOP to vote in someone like David Duke or Ted Nugent. Yep, I said it. Ted Nugent. Then lose the election and go one step crazier again. I thought they would have learned their lessons from 2008 (Palin, not mccain) and 2012, but clearly this is a bunch who live up to their billing as being hostile towards education or logo of any sort.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

RobertKK wrote: »

Lengthy rambling

American companies do store large amounts of profit overseas as a result of the high corporate tax rate. It's unclear if it makes a difference to the US economic growth though.

QE and low interest rates has pushed down bond yields, boosted the stock market and prevented the US economy from entering recession. So what? Do you believe the Fed should deliberately send the economy back into a recession?

Peist2007

Suryavarman wrote: »

If the standard of debate from the pro-Trump crowd wasn't so low I wouldn't have to scoff so much.

Why would I answer queries on her? I'm not going to be the White House Press Secretary. The only people that will have questions to answer is the Republican primary voters for nominating a candidate as weak as Trump.

I didnt say you scoffed at the debate. I said you scoffed at someone pointing out that you had a Clinton bias. Anyone posting on this thread over the past few weeks can clearly see that is the case so no idea why you are trying to argue otherwise.

I also never said you were going to be White House Secretary. Are you trying to be thick on purpose?

Peist2007

Billy86 wrote: »

He has repeatedly been found guilty of racism in court.

Links please to the judgments where he was "found guilty of racism". It happened "repeatedly" according to you so it should be easy to provide.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

RobertKK wrote: »

Trump has won most online polls.
This is an indication of whose supporters are more fired up, and clearly Trump has the most passionate support which makes them more likely to vote in the election that counts.

I voted in many of them, what date can I cast my vote on from Dublin? I mean I'm not a US citizen or anything of the sort, but if the line polls are a true indicator...

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

alastair wrote: »

This notion that the country is so divided is so much hooey. It's no more divided than it ever was. Have a look at the '68, '72 or '80 elections for real ideological divides in the platforms. Trump is a RINO candidate when all is said and done. The racial and economic divide in the US is less pronounced than many other nations, and tbh, racially it's in the best place it's ever been in - despite the light being shone on police killings etc. The whole chicken lickin routine about the place going to hell in a hand basket really doesn't tally with the facts on the ground.

For me, a major problem at this point I can time in the US isn't an ideological divide (though it certainly is there!) so much as a letter divide. So long as the D or R is beside someone's name, tens of millions will vote for them literally regardless of anything and everything else. The GOP pre and post nomination attitudes to Trump are a great example of this.

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

American companies do store large amounts of profit overseas as a result of the high corporate tax rate. It's unclear if it makes a difference to the US economic growth though.

QE and low interest rates has pushed down bond yields, boosted the stock market and prevented the US economy from entering recession. So what? Do you believe the Fed should deliberately send the economy back into a recession?

The argument it is unclear if it makes much of a difference is the same as saying if people are tax exiles it is unclear if it makes much of a difference.
It is money that the state doesn't get and it is money that has to be borrowed.
It is less money that is spent in the home country, and so would have a negative economic effect.

That is a perpetual cycle though - QE and low interest rates pushed down bond rates, the low interest rates and low bond rates make the stock market the most attractive option.
The economy according to some is much better under Obama, yet the near record low interest rates remain, the stock markets makes new record highs.
If the economy is so much better now than lets say 4 years ago, the why do the near record lows remain, interest rates are about 0.15% off the record lows.
So either you are admitting the US economy is in bad shape, or the interest rates are being used to stop a stock market crash due to the bubble it is in.
History shows we will get a stock market crash, and the current stock market is ripe for a crash.

RobertKK

Billy86 wrote: »

For me, a major problem at this point I can time in the US isn't an ideological divide (though it certainly is there!) so much as a letter divide. So long as the D or R is beside someone's name, tens of millions will vote for them literally regardless of anything and everything else. The GOP pre and post nomination attitudes to Trump are a great example of this.

What is most surprising in regards to Trump is polls show he has done a better job unifying the Republican party behind him, than Hillary has with the Democrats.

RobertKK

Billy86 wrote: »

I voted in many of them, what date can I cast my vote on from Dublin? I mean I'm not a US citizen or anything of the sort, but if the line polls are a true indicator...

As I said they are an indication of whose side is the most energised.

kilns

These debates are useless really and are only for the media.

Every rational person in the World knows that Clinton (who is far from perfect) is the much more better and stable of the two. But those who support Trump are not going to be swayed at this stage.

I don think there are many undecided voters in the USA due to the fact that the candidates divide opinion so much.

If this was in a normal election and a presidental nominee refuses to publish his tax returns and has made racist remarks, his name wouldnt have even reached the ballot paper but I blame the democrats for this, anyone but Clinton would have this sown up a long time ago

Atomicjuicer0

conditioned games wrote: »

The real plebs here are those that believe the lies the current establishment tell us through a biased media. Hillary may sound like she is saying all the right things but it still doesn't change the fact we are on the wrong path. Trump highlights how bad things are that never gets a platform like this. Trump is the alternative to this current mess we are heading towards and for that reason he still stands a good chance of winning this.

Yes "things are bad". But many things are actually good and could be worse with a fool at the wheel.

At least Clinton accepts reality with regard to mistakes of the past. Trump doesn't take responsibility for anything that he doesn't like even when it's his own mess.

I'd follow a liar before I'd follow an idiot. Those of us smart enough to cop on to her "lies" know why she does what she does.

I'll grant that Trump learns fast but he is just as shady as she is but not as smart.

I actually agree with many of Trump's intentions but he just doesnt compare to Clinton intellectually. He's out of his depth.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

RobertKK wrote: »

As I said they are an indication of whose side is the most energised.

And as I said, energised fans in Ireland, Russia, etc dont lead to votes in the US.

Walter H Price

Billy86 wrote: »

He has repeatedly been found guilty of racism in court.

Illegal immigration is OT only going down, but there are significantly less than there were 10-15 years ago. The current system is currently working.

His Muslim plan is ISIS' wet dream in terms of recruitment. Watch their products and mine certainly skyrocket if he wins the election.

Not to say Clinton is great by any stretch, but his proposals are as I'll thought out and poorly researched as his inane ramblings were throughout the debate last night.

Illegal immigration going down or not is still a major cause of concern for may people living in the southern states , it shouldn't just be poo pooed as them being narrow minded racists it causes a huge amount of social unrest in those areas. Trumps Build a wall stuff is moronic though and i genuinly cringe everytime he does the whose going to pay for it bit , hes turned a serious issue into a soundbite a slogan and a joke.

How's Obama doing on ISIS , oh yeh he managed to arm them and provide them with vehicles at the start of the conflict then achieve very little in the way of sowing there advance for much of the last 2 years , with out Russian intervention they would not have lost the momentum they have , Clintons plan is more of the same overseas or worse back the rebels v Asad (literally learnt nothing from Libya and Egypt) and nothing domestically to tackle radical Islam because that would be "racisit" ( Despite Islam not being a race) , thens it hard to have any policys on addressing the cultural issues with islamic integration while accepting $25m in donations (bribes) from the Saudi's.

Both candidates are woeful , both have bad track records the true shame of this is that the first female president could be someone as undeserving , vacuous and corrupt as Hillary Clinton and the first non bible thumping republican nominee i have seen in my lifetime is egomaniac , quasi celebrity who's mad as a box of frogs ... Both were so unbelievably uninspiring and insipid last night its really hard to care which one wins , hopefully it will be a short presidency anyway.

I would usually naturally lean republican (though the God stuff irks me) but this time i couldn't care less at this stage, as i said previously who ever wins out of thees two America has lost

RobertKK

Billy86 wrote: »

And as I said, energised fans in Ireland, Russia, etc dont lead to votes in the US.

So are Clinton fans voting for Trump?

Who is most popular outside the US, Trump or Clinton?

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

RobertKK wrote: »

So are Clinton fans voting for Trump?

Who is most popular outside the US, Trump or Clinton?

Clinton fans are less inclined to go to 10-20 online polls to prove a point. All you have to do is go to any forum or place of debate between them to see the maturity divide (and I'm not talking about age). Clinton's voters are far better educated on average for a reason.

Clinton is also the more popular internationally, and it's not even remotely close. Clinton however, does not play up to white supremacy and Islamophobia. A quick visit to After Hours will teach you all you need to see about the differences there.

Suryavarman

Hillary will win narrowly

Billy86 wrote: »

Clinton fans are less inclined to go to 10-20 online polls to prove a point. All you have to do is go to any forum or place of debate between them to see the maturity divide (and I'm not talking about age). Clinton's voters are far better educated on average for a reason.

Clinton is also the more popular internationally, and it's not even remotely close. Clinton however, does not play up to white supremacy and Islamophobia. A quick visit to After Hours will teach you all you need to see about the differences there.

Except in Russia.

RobertKK

Billy86 wrote: »

Clinton fans are less inclined to go to 10-20 online polls to prove a point. All you have to do is go to any forum or place of debate between them to see the maturity divide (and I'm not talking about age). Clinton's voters are far better educated on average for a reason.

Clinton is also the more popular internationally, and it's not even remotely close. Clinton however, does not play up to white supremacy and Islamophobia. A quick visit to After Hours will teach you all you need to see about the differences there.

I wouldn't say either are all that popular internationally.

So potential Clinton voters might be less inclined to go the poll that matters too. This is what enthusiasm is about.
It is like us having a Children's referendum and only 30% of us bother to go and vote.
I expect most people who post here do use their democratic right when there is a vote, but a lot of people don't bother.

RobertKK

Suryavarman wrote: »

Except in Russia.

They saw how the reset button she gave Sergei Lavrov was just an enormous stunt and a lie.

LuckyLloyd

kilns wrote: »

These debates are useless really and are only for the media.

Every rational person in the World knows that Clinton (who is far from perfect) is the much more better and stable of the two. But those who support Trump are not going to be swayed at this stage.

I don think there are many undecided voters in the USA due to the fact that the candidates divide opinion so much.

If this was in a normal election and a presidental nominee refuses to publish his tax returns and has made racist remarks, his name wouldnt have even reached the ballot paper but I blame the democrats for this, anyone but Clinton would have this sown up a long time ago

Polls disagree. All focus groups put together by the various media groups last
night were able to garner undecideds. And that serves to explain why your first sentence is inaccurate by extension - these debates will matter and a brief history of US elections indicates that they generally tend to have a significant influence on the outcome of presidential elections.

Peist2007

Billy86 wrote: »

He has repeatedly been found guilty of racism in court.

Noticed you have replied to other posters but have still not provided a link for the above which i asked for. Pretty big definitive claim there. If it happened repeatedly there shouldnt be any problem providing a link.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Peist2007 wrote: »

Noticed you have replied to other posters but have still not provided a link for the above which i asked for. Pretty big definitive claim there. If it happened repeatedly there shouldnt be any problem providing a link.

They've been pointed out to you multiple times in the past, this "I didn't see it" approach of Trump fans is got old a long time ago.

oscarBravo

Vox fact-checks Trump on trade.

If you were just tuning in to this campaign, you would find yourself hung up on a pretty obvious question — why did the Republican Party nominate a guy who clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about? It’s a good question.

kilns

kilns wrote:

Every rational person in the World knows that Clinton (who is far from perfect) is the much more better and stable of the two. But those who support Trump are not going to be swayed at this stage.

That's a silly statement. I don't support either candidate but I wouldn't find it irrational to say that Clinton was not "much more better". It's this kind of weird definiteness that would turn me off even debating

Billy86 wrote:

They've been pointed out to you multiple times in the past, this "I didn't see it" approach of Trump fans is got old a long time ago.

I'd like to see one. Honestly. Not a trump fan but also not a fan of spurious claims.

This fight is about to turn dirty and the only way for people to remain impartial is not to believe and propagate lies

Peist2007

Billy86 wrote: »

They've been pointed out to you multiple times in the past, this "I didn't see it" approach of Trump fans is got old a long time ago.

WTF! Hang on. You said Trump was "found guilty of racism in court.....repeatedly". Provide some proof. I have been following this election since the primaries and i have seen nothing of the sort nor it ever suggested. So, provide some proof.

RobertKK

I have CNBC on, just want to correct a mistake I made.
I said Trump wants to cut corporation tax rate to 17% from 35%, it is 15% from 35%.
I was thinking of the UK where they want to cut it to 17%.

Peist2007

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd like to see one. Honestly. Not a trump fan but also not a fan of spurious claims.

This fight is about to turn dirty and the only way for people to remain impartial is not to believe and propagate lies

Exactly! People sitting in Ireland making up lies for Clinton or Trump are complete muppets. Let's hope Billy isnt embarrassing himself.

Billy86

Hillary will win narrowly

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd like to see one. Honestly. Not a trump fan but also not a fan of spurious claims.

This fight is about to turn dirty and the only way for people to remain impartial is not to believe and propagate lies

Sure, here's one for ya.

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/283341/donald-trump-robert-libutti-illegal-gambling/

In 1991, Trump’s ties to Libutti came under investigation when nine employees of the Trump Plaza in Atlantic City alleged that the casino violated anti-discrimination at Libutti’s request. The investigation found that Libutti had used racist and misogynist language to complain about the presence of blacks and women working his tables. Instead of removing him from the premises, the casino obliged his demands to make sure there were no “women, blacks or other minorities dealing or supervising his games.” As per Yahoo News:

[Libutti] referred to one Trump Plaza floor person as a “dumb c***” and “dumb bitch,” another as a “Jew broad” and an African-American dealer as a “black bastard.” Finding himself playing with an African-American at his craps table, LiButti shouted, “Shoot the f***ing dice. Shoot the f***ing dice like you’re f***ing some n*****,” according to testimony in the case.

Trump ended up being fined $200,000 for violating anti-discrimination laws over the probe.

Makes you wonder if the media is so 'biased' why they so rarely bring up that Trump has lots and lots of friends in and associations with the mafia, on top of his multiple fraud cases, and the child rape allegations. Not to say you made the claim, but Trump can consider himself lucky he is running in the US, where the media are about as ferocious as a sleeping kitten.

Bit more on Trump's mob connections here - https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html

Peist2007

Billy86 wrote: »

Sure, here's one for ya.

http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/283341/donald-trump-robert-libutti-illegal-gambling/


Makes you wonder if the media is so 'biased' why they so rarely bring up that Trump has lots and lots of friends in and associations with the mafia, on top of his multiple fraud cases, and the child rape allegations. Not to say you made the claim, but Trump can consider himself lucky he is running in the US, where the media are about as ferocious as a sleeping kitten.

Bit more on Trump's mob connections here - https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-challenged-over-ties-to-mob-linked-gambler-100050602.html

Yes but where was he found guilty of racism in court? Repeatedly? Starting to think that this evidence may not be forthcoming.