New Proposed Sheep Scheme

orm0nd

rangler1 wrote: »

Footrot is very infectious
We never have footrot here, but I need 150 replacement ewe lambs here every year and if we were buying them in instead of breeding them we'd have every disease and foot ailment as well.
Last time I bought in much sheep I had scab and enzootic abortion introduced into the flock, so avoid buying in now

have to agree, used always buy here cos it was easier, but bought in scab & often found the bought in sheep were very wild & difficult managed.

looks like we'll be scaling down the sheep & upping dairy numbers soon anyhow


BTW do you know when the john fagan programme is been shown ?

razor8

Halfed numbers here between 2013 and 2014 due to workload so going to lose out on the averaging

sea12

orm0nd wrote: »

have to agree, used always buy here cos it was easier, but bought in scab & often found the bought in sheep were very wild & difficult managed.

looks like we'll be scaling down the sheep & upping dairy numbers soon anyhow


BTW do you know when the john fagan programme is been shown ?

How did you get rid of the scap once it entered the flock. Similar thing happened here with bought in sheep. Don't have plunge bath do just relied in ivornec but found it hard to clear.

rangler1

sea12 wrote: »

How did you get rid of the scap once it entered the flock. Similar thing happened here with bought in sheep. Don't have plunge bath do just relied in ivornec but found it hard to clear.

I ivomec'd them twice and showered them twice and i still had to dig a hole and put down a dipping bath, I never got it officially identified as scab but it took the dipping bath to clear it, With all the messing it was just after lambing when i was dipping, amazing the way 4-6 wk old lambs were able to swim in the bath, they looked like goldfish swimming around

rangler1

orm0nd wrote: »

have to agree, used always buy here cos it was easier, but bought in scab & often found the bought in sheep were very wild & difficult managed.

looks like we'll be scaling down the sheep & upping dairy numbers soon anyhow


BTW do you know when the john fagan programme is been shown ?

I think john fagans is on the 27th dec

razor8

Say you are keeping 100 ewe lambs every year as replacements. How do you categorise them on census form each year?

I assume there will be no €10 payment on these?

Username John

razor8 wrote: »

Say you are keeping 100 ewe lambs every year as replacements. How do you categorise them on census form each year?

I assume there will be no €10 payment on these?

Interested to know the answer to this myself

roosky

razor8 wrote: »

Say you are keeping 100 ewe lambs every year as replacements. How do you categorise them on census form each year?

I assume there will be no €10 payment on these?

as far as i can remember the cencus asks for breeding ewes or like females mated and then there is an other section for other sheep which includes replacements, so no the 10 euro would count there

orm0nd

roosky wrote: »

as far as i can remember the cencus asks for breeding ewes or like females mated and then there is an other section for other sheep which includes replacements, so no the 10 euro would count there

yep, form came to day, all breeding sheep over 12 months & a section for rams over 12 months

every thing else are batched to gether.

ganmo

application form landed here today

jfh

rangler1 wrote: »

Footrot is very infectious
We never have footrot here, but I need 150 replacement ewe lambs here every year and if we were buying them in instead of breeding them we'd have every disease and foot ailment as well.
Last time I bought in much sheep I had scab and enzootic abortion introduced into the flock, so avoid buying in now

Swore I'd put down a diping bath after last summer, although we got guy to spray we ended up bringing sheep in every week or so to spray ourselves.

Do you need to throw them in or do they go into a cage

rangler1

jfh wrote: »

Swore I'd put down a diping bath after last summer, although we got guy to spray we ended up bringing sheep in every week or so to spray ourselves.

Do you need to throw them in or do they go into a cage

Throw them in, It's a big job, they know whats going on and won't go within 10ft of the bath, I don't know how you'd fool them.
I'd imagine that they'd cop on to the cage too, a friend has a dipping bath located beside the race and they slide in from the race......probably the best I've seen , they're using the race all year and then he lets a few to the front of the race as a decoy and the rest slide down into the bath. slide is covered for the rest of the year

sea12

What's the rules for putting in a dipping tank. Do you need planning permission?

farawaygrass

Got the forms yesterday too. For the last few years we had a cheviot ram and probably 3/4 of the ewes are out of him. So they class us as a hill flock. Anyone else in the same boat? I'd prefer the lowland tbh

Green farmer

Got the forms this morning. Must decide what options to do.

orm0nd

Green farmer wrote: »

Got the forms this morning. Must decide what options to do.

ditto

in fairness to the Dept. they have made the app. form as simple as possible,

there is very little chance of making a mistake or sending back to the incorrect return ad.

nearly everybody would fly strike & lameness control in place, & again here they have them in separate categories not forcing some one to take up an option they're not presently enforcing.

a couple of minutes a few times a year would take care of the records.

Green farmer

Doing to do the lameness and fly strike options here alright. The scanning looks straight forward as well, but I don't like being dependent on whether the scanner turns up or not. Id prefer to have full control over compliance.

charolais0153

Will do lameness and scanning. We do it already just a matter of taking down a few numbers every so often

arctictree

Will do the mineral supplement and fly strike here. We do it anyway so no big deal filling in the forms. I only had 30 Ewes in the reference years though, so won't get much out of it. I've doubled my numbers for this year but unfortunately that won't count.

Sheep breeder

Will do the minerals and scanning as already bolus ewes at tupping and scan up to three times some years.

MayoAreMagic

Id like to hear more about what mineral supplementation actually consists of. Some wormers have cobalt included for example; would that be deemed acceptable for compliance? Strictly speaking it should do. Or will they be insisting that sheep are given thriver or lickblocks or something like that? It is all a little vague

sea12

What happens when you scan the ewes. Can you sell the empty ones or what happens when you get an inspection. Say you put in for a hundred and had 7 empty.

Buford T. Justice XIX

sea12 wrote: »

What happens when you scan the ewes. Can you sell the empty ones or what happens when you get an inspection. Say you put in for a hundred and had 7 empty.

You're supposed to manage the different groups differently. Triplets in a different group and fed ration earlier and housed together. Twin bearing next and fed accordingly. Singles late getting ration and less of it.

That's my understanding of it.

razor8

sea12 wrote: »

What happens when you scan the ewes. Can you sell the empty ones or what happens when you get an inspection. Say you put in for a hundred and had 7 empty.

As long as you have the same number of ewes for the following years census there wouldn't be a issue selling barren ewes

rangler1

sea12 wrote: »

What happens when you scan the ewes. Can you sell the empty ones or what happens when you get an inspection. Say you put in for a hundred and had 7 empty.

In the inspection they'll see that you've sold seven ewes on the department records and your register so they'll know you had the at the time of the census

eorna

Did everybody got the forms?
Nothing here yet!

Farrell

sea12 wrote: »

What happens when you scan the ewes. Can you sell the empty ones or what happens when you get an inspection. Say you put in for a hundred and had 7 empty.

Do you need a detailed report of the scanning results.
Currently I just get a receipt & dotted ewes

Username John

eorna wrote: »

Did everybody got the forms?
Nothing here yet!

I only got em the day before yesterday, so I'd say they're still en route...

sea12

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

You're supposed to manage the different groups differently. Triplets in a different group and fed ration earlier and housed together. Twin bearing next and fed accordingly. Singles late getting ration and less of it.

That's my understanding of it.

Ah I know that it was more could you sell the barren ewes. Think the guys gave answered it below. Cheers

sea12

rangler1 wrote: »

In the inspection they'll see that you've sold seven ewes on the department records and your register so they'll know you had the at the time of the census

Cheers just wondering. Was just using the numbers above as an example. As it happens I've down sized led this year and just have half the ewes of my quota for this year.

Siamsa Sessions

Still waiting for the forms here (Waterford).

Will new entrants actually get something in the post? Or do we need to contact someone?

White Clover

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Still waiting for the forms here (Waterford).

Will new entrants actually get something in the post? Or do we need to contact someone?

I got them a couple of weeks ago (cork). Got flock number earlier in the year but no sheep yet.

DJ98

The options for the lowland farmer seems easier/more manageable than what the hill farmer has to do. Or maybe its just me- why cant the hill farmer prevent flystrike or control lameness.

ganmo

DJ98 wrote: »

The options for the lowland farmer seems easier/more manageable than what the hill farmer has to do. Or maybe its just me- why cant the hill farmer prevent flystrike or control lameness.

I reckon it's so the lads that don't see the ewes for 6 months and sell the lambs as stores are get full benifit of it

DJ98

ganmo wrote: »

I reckon it's so the lads that don't see the ewes for 6 months and sell the lambs as stores are get full benifit of it

But surely if they werent seen sheep for 6 months they would be riddled with both internal and eexternal parasites?

ganmo

DJ98 wrote: »

But surely if they werent seen sheep for 6 months they would be riddled with both internal and eexternal parasites?

Not necessarily, the forage on the hills isn't the best for holding worms and if the sheep aren't seen for 6 months they can't record how lame they are etc

DJ98

ganmo wrote: »

Not necessarily, the forage on the hills isn't the best for holding worms and if the sheep aren't seen for 6 months they can't record how lame they are etc

But thats my point, the scheme is titled- sheep welfare, but if the sheep are unseen for 6 moths well then their welfare isnt a priority, maybe im wrong, i dont farm a hill so cant say.

Sami23

arctictree wrote: »

Will do the mineral supplement and fly strike here. We do it anyway so no big deal filling in the forms.

Thinking of doing the same 2 actions myself.
Just wondering will mineral buckets be sufficient for the mineral supplementation post mating action ?

charolais0153

Meeting in tuam on 26th of Jan about scheme....Darren carty will be there

Buford T. Justice XIX

Sami23 wrote: »

Thinking of doing the same 2 actions myself.
Just wondering will mineral buckets be sufficient for the mineral supplementation post mating action ?

https://twitter.com/FJSheep/status/821093593771286530

Sami23

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Sami23 wrote: »

Thinking of doing the same 2 actions myself.
Just wondering will mineral buckets be sufficient for the mineral supplementation post mating action ?

https://twitter.com/FJSheep/status/821093593771286530

Yes but that doesn't answer my question about the mineral buckets. They would be a very easy way to comply with that action.
And the flystrike action should be ok if you dag the dirty ones and apply Clik or Ectofly etc

Inchilad

Was just enquiring to them on the phone this morning.would have just had a few pedigree lowland ewes last few years.after leasing hillfort recently and upped my numbers to nearly 100 ewes. All swaledale/scotch ewes.was told that I'll only get paid for the pedigrees.bit of a joke.surely would make sense to pick 2 out of hill flock measures.

tom_k

Sami23 wrote: »

Yes but that doesn't answer my question about the mineral buckets. They would be a very easy way to comply with that action.
And the flystrike action should be ok if you dag the dirty ones and apply Clik or Ectofly etc

I was at the Breaffy, Co. Mayo meeting last night, the mineral bucket question was asked and the reply was that mineral buckets were fine as long as manufacturer's instructions were adhered to. I.e. if it says one bucket is sufficient for 30 sheep for 10 days then you'll need 6 buckets for the 60 days if you have 30 ewes. Keeping of records and receipts required of course.

MayoAreMagic

tom_k wrote: »

I was at the Breaffy, Co. Mayo meeting last night, the mineral bucket question was asked and the reply was that mineral buckets were fine as long as manufacturer's instructions were adhered to. I.e. if it says one bucket is sufficient for 30 sheep for 10 days then you'll need 6 buckets for the 60 days if you have 30 ewes. Keeping of records and receipts required of course.

Sorry, couldn't make the meeting. Im just wondering if a course of cobalt doses would suffice for mineral supplementation? i.e. 30 cobalt every 20 days, dosing each animal 3 times - that is the correct rate for a ewe of around 50kg. There is no reason why it shouldn't. In fact it is far more reliable than leaving the bucket at them, as generally some ewes will gorge on them while others wont go near them... Not to mention that it is cheaper - those buckets are a rip off...

tom_k

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry, couldn't make the meeting. Im just wondering if a course of cobalt doses would suffice for mineral supplementation? i.e. 30 cobalt every 20 days, dosing each animal 3 times - that is the correct rate for a ewe of around 50kg. There is no reason why it shouldn't. In fact it is far more reliable than leaving the bucket at them, as generally some ewes will gorge on them while others wont go near them... Not to mention that it is cheaper - those buckets are a rip off...

The information given at the meeting was that any form of mineral supplementation is fine as long as manufacturer instructions are adhered to, this applies to licks, buckets, boluses, drenches, bagged minerals etc.

Record keeping and receipts are required. The Teagasc rep at the meeting made the point that merchants reps may be telling farmers that they need one product over another but that most farmers would/should know their mineral requirements generally. He made specific reference to cobalt requirements in our part of the country.

MayoAreMagic

tom_k wrote: »

The information given at the meeting was that any form of mineral supplementation is fine as long as manufacturer instructions are adhered to, this applies to licks, buckets, boluses, drenches, bagged minerals etc.

Record keeping and receipts are required. The Teagasc rep at the meeting made the point that merchants reps may be telling farmers that they need one product over another but that most farmers would/should know their mineral requirements generally. He made specific reference to cobalt requirements in our part of the country.

Thanks for the feedback. I've already encountered some scaremongering on this front 'you will need the lickblocks' - they cant explain why you need them though...
Considering my ewe numbers have risen considerably since the reference years, and the fact that you have to treat all ewes present on the farm, not just the ones you are getting the payment for, I would actually lose money if I went the lickblock route...

Was there much info given on the mineral supplementation pre-weaning option? It seems very vague in the documentation...

tom_k

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback. I've already encountered some scaremongering on this front 'you will need the lickblocks' - they cant explain why you need them though...
Considering my ewe numbers have risen considerably since the reference years, and the fact that you have to treat all ewes present on the farm, not just the ones you are getting the payment for, I would actually lose money if I went the lickblock route...

Was there much info given on the mineral supplementation pre-weaning option? It seems very vague in the documentation...

It's the same from certain "wise men" around here, "Ya'll have to get the lick buckets - the dear ones!". Not true as confirmed last night. The main point made was that the 60 day supplementation begins on turning out the ram(s). And indeed as you pointed out its a whole flock measure so people, myself included will need to be smart when deciding which product to use. Most will already use the supplementation methods that work best for them already so it's just a matter of ensuring product coverage for the required 60 days.

There was little extra info given on the pre-weaning supplementation (Hill flocks). Most of what I learned was from the Q&A period after the presentation and I don't recall any questions on this particular measure - which was surprising given the good attendance of hill farmers (who aren't shy ).

Looking at the documentation it is quite vague regarding timing, lamb ages, coverage period etc.

Bleating Lamb

Have chosen the mineral supplementation measure,and scanning,would usually dose the ewes with Vit B 12 just before letting the ram out,logically it's not going to be a great idea to have to be handling ewes to dose them with minerals while the ram is out with them imo,what do others think?

rangler1

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Have chosen the mineral supplementation measure,and scanning,would usually dose the ewes with Vit B 12 just before letting the ram out,logically it's not going to be a great idea to have to be handling ewes to dose them with minerals while the ram is out with them imo,what do others think?

Why not bolus them before the ram goes out with them, I'd always bolus them a month before putting out the ram so that any deficiencies would be addressed before mating

razor8

Think the terms and conditions state post mating rather than pre mating which is very strange