New Proposed Sheep Scheme

charolais0153

We posted the letter 2 weeks ago should we write in for the extra ten or so ewes or not....
We'd have 115 ewes right now and let's say 25 are sold as culls or die ,does that mean we will only be paid on 90 because we buy hoggets in September to replace tgem

ganmo

if you get an inspection yes
not sure if they'll have access to the numbers that you sell outside of an inspection.

but theres another twist, if your 'losses' are more than 3%(lowland) and 5%(hills) you'll face a penality

J.O. Farmer

ganmo wrote: »

if you get an inspection yes
not sure if they'll have access to the numbers that you sell outside of an inspection.

but theres another twist, if your 'losses' are more than 3%(lowland) and 5%(hills) you'll face a penality

What if you only have 20 sheep. 1 sheep would be 5% of your flock. Also to lose 4 ewes in a flock of 100 wouldn't be a huge number would it especially if you were having a bad year.

ganmo

its better than no lee way

the 3 &5 % has been in place for flock register inspections for quite a while

J.O. Farmer

ganmo wrote: »

its better than no lee way

the 3 &5 % has been in place for flock register inspections for quite a while

Do you mean losses in terms of not accounted for on paper. I thought you meant deaths.

Bleating Lamb

rangler1 wrote: »

Department said at the meeting that new entrants and those wanting to expand over their 'quota' should write in for extra so that's what everyone should as the money will be there for them now

Just wondering Rangler,would you need to write in by the 3rd February to expand over current quota or did Dept mention when you would have to do it by?

rangler1

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Just wondering Rangler,would you need to write in by the 3rd February to expand over current quota or did Dept mention when you would have to do it by?

Because it wasn't my problem I didn't follow it up, but I was at two meetings about it and on both occasions the department was asked about new entrants and increased numbers and the answer was the same at both.....did no one else here go to any of the meetings.
You have to keep your number the whole year but you can notify the deprtment if your number reduces or if you sell some cullls and your sub will be reduced by that amount........no one is going to hold on to barren ewes for six mths for a tenner sub.

charolais0153

rangler1 wrote: »

Because it wasn't my problem I didn't follow it up, but I was at two meetings about it and on both occasions the department was asked about new entrants and increased numbers and the answer was the same at both.....did no one else here go to any of the meetings.
You have to keep your number the whole year but you can notify the deprtment if your number reduces or if you sell some cullls and your sub will be reduced by that amount........no one is going to hold on to barren ewes for six mths for a tenner sub.

We went a week before it was actually on and then when we were about to go, a heifer was sick so couldn't go

ganmo

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Do you mean losses in terms of not accounted for on paper. I thought you meant deaths.

difference from your reference number and what is there when inspected

tom_k

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Just wondering Rangler,would you need to write in by the 3rd February to expand over current quota or did Dept mention when you would have to do it by?

At the meeting I was at the Dept. official said that those who wished to appeal their reference number could do so after it had been allocated to them, this was expected to be in March although that may be pushed further out due to the deadline extension.

She said that appeals would be dealt with on a case by case basis. I couldn't see any point in appealing the reference number right now. I got the impression that the framework for dealing with appeals may not yet have been set in stone and they were probably waiting to see what uptake would be like.

I'm affected by this as I only returned to sheep farming in my own right in 2014 with small numbers which I have since substantially increased with plans to grow a little more regardless of Dept. payments. However, if they'll give me a few more €10s I'll take them. The measures won't be costing me any extra at all except for a few more lines of paperwork.

BannerBarry

Can we get copies of our 2014 and 2015 Sheep Census online?
I looked on rhe website but could not see.
I am unsure of the exact numbers I had at that time.

Green farmer

BannerBarry wrote: »

Can we get copies of our 2014 and 2015 Sheep Census online?
I looked on rhe website but could not see.
I am unsure of the exact numbers I had at that time.

Previous years should be up there in the census section. If not give the dept a ring. Know one or two lads that had their numbers missed up by dept.

tom_k

BannerBarry wrote: »

Can we get copies of our 2014 and 2015 Sheep Census online?
I looked on rhe website but could not see.
I am unsure of the exact numbers I had at that time.

A shot in the dark here but there's no chance you filled it in on the census return page in your flock register?

The dates for previous censuses were 14 December 2014 and 13 December 2015. You should be able to have a fair idea of your numbers from the events pages in the register and any other records you keep. Unless dealing with very large numbers/ daily movements or events etc.

I don't want to sound like a know it all but this is a perfect example of why we should all keep copies/screenshots of all submissions.

rangler1

tom_k wrote: »

A shot in the dark here but there's no chance you filled it in on the census return page in your flock register?

The dates for previous censuses were 14 December 2014 and 13 December 2015. You should be able to have a fair idea of your numbers from the events pages in the register and any other records you keep. Unless dealing with very large numbers/ daily movements or events etc.

I don't want to sound like a know it all but this is a perfect example of why we should all keep copies/screenshots of all submissions.

+1
So much easier to deal with a problem if there's copies.
Anyway 21000 applied now so there won't be much extra to give out

Lambman

Seen something in the farmers journal that any farmer who choose scanning as an option and has already scanned this year b4 applying for the scheme doesn't count but next year's scan 17/18 will count for this year and next year? Can any1 who was at a meeting clarify this I couldn't make meetings.

Sami23

Lambman wrote: »

Seen something in the farmers journal that any farmer who choose scanning as an option and has already sca6nned this year b4 applying for the scheme doesn't count but next year's scan 17/18 will count for this year and next year? Can any1 who was at a meeting clarify this I couldn't make meetings.

Yes you are correct.

roosky

Lambman wrote: »

Seen something in the farmers journal that any farmer who choose scanning as an option and has already scanned this year b4 applying for the scheme doesn't count but next year's scan 17/18 will count for this year and next year? Can any1 who was at a meeting clarify this I couldn't make meetings.

Ya i rang department about this, so because the scheme starts in Feb 2017 if you scanned in Jan 2017 it doesn't count but scanning again in Jan 218 will count for the first year of the scheme.

Green farmer

21,400 out of 30,000 applied in the end according to agriland

ganmo

Green farmer wrote: »

21,400 out of 30,000 applied in the end according to agriland

21,400 x 104(avg flock size in '14) x10 = 22.250 mil so 2.75 mil left behind

rangler1

ganmo wrote: »

21,400 x 104(avg flock size in '14) x10 = 22.250 mil so 2.75 mil left behind

probably the small flocks that haven't applied

ganmo

rangler1 wrote: »

probably the small flocks that haven't applied

Hopefully

ganmo

Got an acceptance letter today

No numbers on it though

Lambman

ganmo wrote: »

Got an acceptance letter today

No numbers on it though

Never checked yet what all on the letter ganmo

ganmo

Lambman wrote: »

Never checked yet what all on the letter ganmo

Goes like this

You've been accepted...
Keep to the t&cs and you get a tenner a head
Record in the record book.
Any queries contact...

Paraphrased

Buford T. Justice XIX

ganmo wrote: »

Goes like this

Paraphrased

Valentines day and no sign of a loveheart or a few XXXs on it either:(

Lambman

Just our normal record book or they sending out new ones for this scheme?

ganmo

Lambman wrote: »

Just our normal record book or they sending out new ones for this scheme?

The one they sent out with the application form. If ya don't have hit get them to send ya one

Lambman

Uh o need do a bita looking for that

Green farmer

Got the record book in post today. I sent them an email requesting one a few weeks ago. No acceptable letter yet.

Bleating Lamb

A neighbour was saying to me today that he got a letter from Dept regarding this scheme the other day and that it gave a 'reference number' on it that was less than the number of ewes he had entered for the scheme.

Did anyone else get a letter like that this week?

charolais0153

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

A neighbour was saying to me today that he got a letter from Dept regarding this scheme the other day and that it gave a 'reference number' on it that was less than the number of ewes he had entered for the scheme.

Did anyone else get a letter like that this week?

Ya. We got 99 rather than the hunderded and fourteen we had this year

ganmo

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ya. We got 99 rather than the hunderded and fourteen we had this year

how many did you have last year?
no letter here

charolais0153

ganmo wrote: »

how many did you have last year?
no letter here

Hundred and four

cattle man

Reference number is based on 2014-2015 average I think.

BannerBarry

cattle man wrote: »

Reference number is based on 2014-2015 average I think.

That is correct.
One can appeal should those years be abnormally low by you

Lambman

I'm the same reference number way off the mark as that was first year I went into sheep in my own flock number so bought hoggets till start and a few ewes in lamb and they only counted the ewes in lamb I bought even tho the hoggets all lambed aswell? I filled in the census that year and put the hoggets down as breeding ewes as they were running with the rams so I should get paid for them aswell??

Bleating Lamb

Lambman wrote: »

I'm the same reference number way off the mark as that was first year I went into sheep in my own flock number so bought hoggets till start and a few ewes in lamb and they only counted the ewes in lamb I bought even tho the hoggets all lambed aswell? I filled in the census that year and put the hoggets down as breeding ewes as they were running with the rams so I should get paid for them aswell??

Not sure tbh...when you say 'that year'..was it 2014 or 2015?

My neighbour only started with sheep in either 2015 or 2016....maybe that is why his figure is down do people think?

rangler1

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Not sure tbh...when you say 'that year'..was it 2014 or 2015?

My neighbour only started with sheep in either 2015 or 2016....maybe that is why his figure is down do people think?

It's simple enough,

Payment is €10 per breeding ewe. The number of allowable ewes for each participant will be calculated as the average number of ewes in their 2014 and 2015 sheep census.
The farmer is required to maintain the reference number of ewes which will form part of the inspection process
There is provision for new entrants to join where they do not have 2014/15 ewe numbers on which to base a reference number. A new entrant to this scheme is defined as an applicant who has applied for a new herd number from 1st January 2016 and before the closing date of the scheme in 2017 or an applicant with an existing herd number who has not held or traded in sheep for a two year period up to 31st October preceding the scheme year.


Considering the price of lamb this year, one thing we don't want is an influx of people into sheep farming because of this scheme

Siamsa Sessions

Lambman wrote: »

I'm the same reference number way off the mark as that was first year I went into sheep in my own flock number so bought hoggets till start and a few ewes in lamb and they only counted the ewes in lamb I bought even tho the hoggets all lambed aswell? I filled in the census that year and put the hoggets down as breeding ewes as they were running with the rams so I should get paid for them aswell??

I phoned the Dept about the same thing: not including in-lamb hoggets in their calculations.

They said they weren't old enough and that was that. But naturally I could appeal in writing. I'm starting to think that the Dept. are more than happy to generate appeals/paperwork as it gives them something to justify their existence.

Lambman

It was 15-16 I bought so say id 200 in lamb hoggets that year then do the half that because of nothing in 14-15 so 100 is the average over them 2 years? It actually fits in with with my census compared till reference number!

rangler1

Lambman wrote: »

It was 15-16 I bought so say id 200 in lamb hoggets that year then do the half that because of nothing in 14-15 so 100 is the average over them 2 years? It actually fits in with with my census compared till reference number!

I lamb 120 hoggets every year and they're not included either......be nice if they were

Lano Lynn

If the census date was moved to SFP closing date (mid may) breeding ewes and dry hogget producers could benifit.
a mid winter census date is an accountancy exersise a mid may date would reflect the industry much more accurately

Siamsa Sessions

Lano Lynn wrote: »

If the census date was moved to SFP closing date (mid may) breeding ewes and dry hogget producers could benifit.
a mid winter census date is an accountancy exersise a mid may date would reflect the industry much more accurately

Makes sense to me anyway.

And on a related matter, the Dept should clarify their description of what can be included - no point in talking about a "breeding ewe" when what they mean is a ewe that's one-year-old.

Sheep breeder

A breeding ewe is termed as a ewe that has lambed and not a ewe lamb and has being this way back to the old sheep sub,

Sheep breeder

Lano Lynn wrote: »

If the census date was moved to SFP closing date (mid may) breeding ewes and dry hogget producers could benifit.
a mid winter census date is an accountancy exersise a mid may date would reflect the industry much more accurately

Sheep census was always at the end of the year to determine the number of breeding ewes on farm prior to lambing season began and to allow sheep inspections early in the year.

Lano Lynn

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Sheep census was always at the end of the year to determine the number of breeding ewes on farm prior to lambing season began and to allow sheep inspections early in the year.

thats my point it has nothing to do with the farmers it is for the box tickers benifit.it is just a duplication of data that used to be collected in the june statisics figures all of which shuold be roled up into the SFP application.
(the surplus staff could be redepolyed,perhaps the dept of justice need some bean counters;))

Green farmer

Lano Lynn wrote: »

(the surplus staff could be redepolyed,perhaps the dept of justice need some bean counters;))

Send them down to the Glas IT section and start working on next years payments.

ganmo

Lano Lynn wrote: »

thats my point it has nothing to do with the farmers it is for the box tickers benifit.it is just a duplication of data that used to be collected in the june statisics figures all of which shuold be roled up into the SFP application.
(the surplus staff could be redepolyed,perhaps the dept of justice need some bean counters;))

The problem with that is the sfp application isn't a statutory requirement where the sheep census is a statutory requirement

Sheep breeder

Lano Lynn wrote: »

thats my point it has nothing to do with the farmers it is for the box tickers benifit.it is just a duplication of data that used to be collected in the june statisics figures all of which shuold be roled up into the SFP application.
(the surplus staff could be redepolyed,perhaps the dept of justice need some bean counters;))

If your not happy with the census form don't fill it out and when your at it don't fill the BPS and the sheep welfare form and then wait on the post man to bring you the money for doing nothing.

Username John

Sheep breeder wrote: »

If your not happy with the census form don't fill it out and when your at it don't fill the BPS and the sheep welfare form and then wait on the post man to bring you the money for doing nothing.

Tis true Sheep Breeder...

And then stop farming...

Ha ha - that'd learn him...

And let the land...

What, he could make nearly as much money letting the land and doing nothing? What?