Telegraph Investigations Megathread - Sam Allardyce resigns as England Manager

eagle eye

weldoninhio wrote: »

Without the media setup, how would you propose catching these cheats out??

Firstly you want to be careful with the wording you use. Allardyce hasn't actually broke any laws based on what has been revealed by the Telegraph.

The tax payer actually pays for people called Police to investigate and charge lawbreakers.

Augme

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Reads like he was pushed.

I think that was always going to be fairly obvious.

Billy86

wintear wrote: »

Would the FA go for someone viewed as squeaky clean now?

A jurgen klopp or a Pep?

Being honest, they have as much chance of getting one of those two as Gateshead do.

eagle eye

I wonder what's next for Big Sam, Fulham and QPR might both be interested.

Skylinehead

nullzero wrote: »

Finishes with a 100% record, Englands most successful manager of all time.

And David Nugent is their most successful goalscorer of all time :cool:

Harry Palmr

Rafa for England.

Billy86

eagle eye wrote: »

I wonder what's next for Big Sam, Fulham and QPR might both be interested.

I think we could see quite an extended break.

BorneTobyWilde

eagle eye wrote: »

I wonder what's next for Big Sam, Fulham and QPR might both be interested.

Probably open a kebab shop I'd think .

Lovely Bloke

Pep squeaky clean?

Aye, right.

Ben Gadot

Would be silly to narrow their search again to Brits. They should be testing Rafa's loyalty to Newcastle at least.

ahlookit

Billy86 wrote: »

I think we could see quite an extended break.

He'll rock up at Hull in a few months and keep them up

Billy86

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Rafa for England.

Erm... as a United fan I love to mock him, but... that wouldn't be a bad call considering their options. He knows how to build a team unit, and has a history of being pretty good with cups.

Still, needs more English.

A_Sober_Paddy

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

Pep squeaky clean?

Aye, right.

Michele Ferrari I assume

niallo27

eagle eye wrote: »

I wonder what's next for Big Sam, Fulham and QPR might both be interested.

A long holiday i would think, or some TV work

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Firstly you want to be careful with the wording you use. Allardyce hasn't actually broke any laws based on what has been revealed by the Telegraph.

The tax payer actually pays for people called Police to investigate and charge lawbreakers.

Ach, he threatened to sue the BBC over the bung stuff and didn't do anything in the end. He didn't do anything when the football corruption investigation in the mid 00s expressed concern about his dealings at Bolton.

A poster calling him a cheat is pretty benign.

keith16

eagle eye wrote: »

Allardyce hasn't actually broke any laws

And? Is breaking the law the only standard to which we hold people accountable?

If I head into the office tomorrow and mock my predecessor for a speech impediment or outline to external people that they are free to undermine rules put in place by my employers for their own gain, is that ok?

Of course not. It's completely unprofessional and unacceptable. He left the F.A. with no choice.

ahlookit

Thomas Hitzlsperger was on the Graham Hunter podcast recently and spoke glowingly of Klinsmann's organisation and reforms in the German FA. Gives him a lot of credit for laying groundwork which was built upon by Lowe. Would be interesting to see if the English FA really have an appetite for change.

But, anticipating Billy86's response, he's not English....

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Tomorrows headline - "Big Sham"

That's a freebie for you daily telegraph.

eagle eye

keith16 wrote: »

And? Is breaking the law the only standard to which we hold people accountable?

If I head into the office tomorrow and mock my predecessor for a speech impediment or outline to external people that they are free to undermine rules put in place by my employers for their own gain, is that ok?

Of course not. It's completely unprofessional and unacceptable. He left the F.A. with no choice.

You quoted me, now can you go find where I said he should have held onto his job?

I'll save you time, you won't find that anywhere and I don't for the life of me understand why you quoted me to make this point.

Dempsey

The journalists have only scratched the surface of the problem in football. It wont end with Allardyce and it certainly wont deter anyone looking to make money in football business.

The English Media have created a circus in which they can dine out on until the World Cup!

CSF

Allardyce must be kicking himself that he wasn't working with the FAI. All Delaney would be worried about is getting a piece of the action.

keith16

eagle eye wrote: »

You quoted me, now can you go find where I said he should have held onto his job?

I'll save you time, you won't find that anywhere and I don't for the life of me understand why you quoted me to make this point.

Bit precious aren't we?

You said we should leave it up to the police to do this kind of work. Therefore, the implication is, since he didn't break any laws, this case is of no interest to the police?

Well guess what, the police use the very same tactic all the time. I'm glad the press does this sort of stuff too. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. They never put a gun to his head and make him say what he did.

eagle eye

keith16 wrote: »

Bit precious aren't we?

You said we should leave it up to the police to do this kind of work. Therefore, the implication is, since he didn't break any laws, this case is of no interest to the police?

Well guess what, the police use the very same tactic all the time. I'm glad the press does this sort of stuff too. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. They never put a gun to his head and make him say what he did.

Precious? lol.

You quoted a little bit of something I said and used it out of context, I was advising somebody on wording, and go off on your little rant as if it had something to do with what you quoted which it did not.

Kerrydude1981

CSF wrote: »

Allardyce must be kicking himself that he wasn't working with the FAI. All Delaney would be worried about is getting a piece of the action.

And buy pints for everyone after the meeting

keith16

eagle eye wrote: »

Precious? lol.

You quoted a little bit of something I said and used it out of context, I was advising somebody on wording, and go off on your little rant as if it had something to do with what you quoted which it did not.

In that case, you are being fairly pedantic IMO. Clearly the cops won't be pulling Allardyce in.

But it was enough to cost him his dream job. And rightly so...a lot of people have an issue with how the Telegraph did this. All secondary now.

How would the F.A. have looked if they took the line many posters (not necessarily you) are taking here?

If they had come out and said...."it's grand, not a whole lot in this and it's gutter journalism that is the real crime here"....they would have lost all credibility.

Ulysses Gaze

This was the job that he had craved. That he'd lobbied for. So he got it, and due to his own greed and stupidity, he's cost himself.

And it is not like he needed the money.

What a fool he is.

Kerrydude1981

Should have stuck with Mike Bassett

Lord TSC

Updating the thread title, to reflect Sam's exit AND the fact there's more stuff to come.

Talking of...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/27/exclusive-eight-premier-league-managers-took-transfer-bungs-clai/

Eight current and former Premier League managers stand accused of receiving “bungs” for player transfers after The Daily Telegraph found widespread evidence of corruption in the English game.

Football agents were filmed by undercover reporters boasting about how many managers they had paid, with one agent saying that in football, “everything is under the table”.

Later this week the Telegraph will also disclose the name of an assistant manager at a leading club who was filmed accepting a £5,000 cash payment from undercover reporters posing as representatives of a Far Eastern firm that wanted to invest in players.

The eight managers, as described by the article....

Manager 1

Ex-Premier League manager allegedly liked “bungs” in cash or deposited in a Swiss bank account. Pagliara said: “I can call [X] now and all it is with [X] is 'How much, Pino? And will it be the same Swiss bank account?’”

Manager 2

Ex-top flight manager has had “more backhanders than Wimbledon”. Pagliara said: “This is what I hate... the guy that used to need the money but he’s had so much now that all of a sudden he’s whiter than white.”

Manager 3

After managing several British clubs, he was allegedly fired by one for having “his fingers in the till”. Pagliara said he would get involved if “you understand that when we do deals I have to have a carrier bag with some cash”.

Manager 4

Pagliara said of this boss with Premier League experience: “We know him very, very well. We do a transfer, [X] has winked at us and said 'Yeah, I want the player. Is there a little coffee for me, Pino?’ Yeah, course there is.”

Manager 5

Ex-Premier League manager who, said Pagliara, would call him and say “here’s the number”, and give him details of a Swiss account. He said: “It was always numbered accounts.”

Manager 6

A former player who now manages, he allegedly likes extra money to secure deals because he is not on a big salary at his club. Pagliara said: “[X] takes a few [inaudible] because he’s not being paid big money.”

Manager 7

Ex-Premier League manager is another “we can put on the payroll”. If a player was transferred for £10m, “we’ll turn round to [X] and say, listen, if you take this player we’ll look after you. OK? OK, boom.”

Manager 8

Agent Dax Price said this long-serving manager would pick three trusted players and tell them he was paying them an extra £8,000 per month, on condition that they paid him £4,000 per month each.

~Rebel~

keith16 wrote: »

And? Is breaking the law the only standard to which we hold people accountable?

If I head into the office tomorrow and mock my predecessor for a speech impediment or outline to external people that they are free to undermine rules put in place by my employers for their own gain, is that ok?

Of course not. It's completely unprofessional and unacceptable. He left the F.A. with no choice.

That's not what happened at all though...what happened wasn't good, but we may as well be accurate, otherwise whats the point?

It would be the same as you having a meeting with some other people utterly unrelated to your work, referring to someone by an insulting nickname that unfortunately is continuously used by people nationwide, and when asked saying that you're aware that people are breaking a rule without being caught or getting into trouble.

He didn't say any of this stuff to his coworkers, or where he works, and he didn't say they were free to do any such thing. He said it happens and is clearly easy to get around. (it does, and it is). Also on a pedantic note, this isn't what he was being paid for. He was being paid to get bums on seats at a conference with football anecdotes - and thats all.

If this stuff had been said in private, and made its way to those at the FA through private means, they'd have had a talk with him but there's no way he'd have been fired. He's been fired not because of what he said, but because he wasn't careful enough to ensure it wouldn't be public. That's fair enough, but let's keep this straight instead of adding to the ludicrous hyperbole.

CSF

Praying Di Matteo can be in some way implicated in this before Saturday.

Kermit.de.frog

In fairness to Allardyce this was a total stitch-up. The stuff is endemic in football. I'd say the majority of managers would have fallen for a similar sting.

Unearthly

The 8 managers thing has a lack of evidence, just the word of a corrupt agent. Sam was the only big story I think

CSF

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

In fairness to Allardyce this was a total stitch-up. The stuff is endemic in football. I'd say the majority of managers would have fallen for a similar sting.

The majority? You actually think more than 50% of managers are involved in dodgy dealings?

Kermit.de.frog

CSF wrote: »

The majority? You actually think more than 50% of managers are involved in dodgy dealings?

Yes I do. Nothing would surprise me.

Or to put more intricately most would have fallen for it, does not mean they are dodge right now, let's say they'd be "aware" of how certain things can be done.

Paully D

Lord TSC wrote: »

Updating the thread title, to reflect Sam's exit AND the fact there's more stuff to come.

Talking of...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/27/exclusive-eight-premier-league-managers-took-transfer-bungs-clai/

The eight managers, as described by the article....

It seems lawyers have already foiled one reveal.

I understand why the newspapers do it, but leaking tidbits and saying they'll reveal more over the coming days is just asking for more to be foiled by legal teams.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if more than a few of these names never see the light of day.

~Rebel~

CSF wrote: »

The majority? You actually think more than 50% of managers are involved in dodgy dealings?

Depends on what you consider dodgy dealings.

Would I have a problem with Klopp delivering a welcome speech at some conference abroad with some war stories about his time with Dortmund? Not really sure that I would. I mean, i'd be pissed off his whole focus wasn't on Liverpool, but at the same time Allardyce did specify it would have to only be during a quiet period (which to be fair there are plenty of in international management).

I mean, that's what the sting was.

What's gotten him in trouble was his big mouth, with some of the comments he made unrelated to the deal.

Agent Coulson

Loads of Superinjunctions coming over the next couple of days.

kfallon

The Honey Monster wrote: »

Tomorrows headline - "Big Sham"

That's a freebie for you daily telegraph.

Or "Fired Man Sam"

CSF

~Rebel~ wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

The majority? You actually think more than 50% of managers are involved in dodgy dealings?

Depends on what you consider dodgy dealings.

Would I have a problem with Klopp delivering a welcome speech at some conference abroad with some war stories about his time with Dortmund? Not really sure that I would. I mean, i'd be pissed off his whole focus wasn't on Liverpool, but at the same time Allardyce did specify it would have to only be during a quiet period (which to be fair there are plenty of in international management).

I mean, that's what the sting was.

It's the other stuff he talked about that's gotten him in trouble, like saying Woy.

It's the third party stuff I'm talking about here. Something tells me Wenger or David Moyes aren't going to be sitting in a room explaining to some lad from the Middle East how to get around transfer regulations.

~Rebel~

Paully D wrote: »

It seems lawyers have already foiled one reveal.

I understand why the newspapers do it, but leaking tidbits and saying they'll reveal more over the coming days is just asking for more to be foiled by legal teams.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if more than a few of these names never see the light of day.

To be honest, I kind of think that might be the right thing.

At very least I hope they're forced to make their articles factually accurate so they can't get away with an "if this, then that" method of insinuating actions which were never actually taken. I mean, you see the comments in this thread, where tonnes of people have completely the wrong idea of what was actually said, purely because of the framing of the article and headline.

I'm all for good investigative reporting, as long as it's an accurate portrayal of their story. The Telegraph unfortunately, is far more interested in clicks than ethics.

keith16

~Rebel~ wrote: »

That's not what happened at all though...what happened wasn't good, but we may as well be accurate, otherwise whats the point?

It would be the same as you having a meeting with some other people utterly unrelated to your work, referring to someone by an insulting nickname that unfortunately is continuously used by people nationwide, and when asked saying that you're aware that people are breaking a rule without being caught or getting into trouble.

He didn't say any of this stuff to his coworkers, or where he works, and he didn't say they were free to do any such thing. He said it happens and is clearly easy to get around. (it does, and it is). Also on a pedantic note, this isn't what he was being paid for. He was being paid to get bums on seats at a conference with football anecdotes - and thats all.

If this stuff had been said in private, and made its way to those at the FA through private means, they'd have had a talk with him but there's no way he'd have been fired. He's been fired not because of what he said, but because he wasn't careful enough to ensure it wouldn't be public. That's fair enough, but let's keep this straight instead of adding to the ludicrous hyperbole.

If all Allardyce has in his defence is pedantry, well...

Everyone else calls him Woy so that's ok too. Got it.

When asked? Ha! "They asked me gaffer, they made me say it". Please.

These sound like the defensive arguments of a child tbh.

If this, if that....fact is, he was caught with his pants down and has no one to blame except himself.

~Rebel~

CSF wrote: »

It's the third party stuff I'm talking about here. Something tells me Wenger or David Moyes aren't going to be sitting in a room explaining to some lad from the Middle East how to get around transfer regulations.

He didn't do that though. He said it's done, and listed some names, not how to do it.

The worst thing he did imo was playing the big man in mentioning that it would be shrewd for a club to employ the agent so that you can contractually get a % of the deal income. He's not wrong though, and im not even sure that could even be considered unethical tbh, but it's just a topic that probably shouldn't have been talked about. He was far too casual in conversation, rather than just sticking to the deal for his keynote speech. But that's Sam, and that's Harry, and that's Pearson, and Dyche, and Dowie etc etc etc....it's the laddish bravado culture of English football.

Francie Barrett

That is a serious bullet that England have dodged there. It's clear that Allardyce is hopelessly out of his depth when it comes to managing a top flight team who expect to progress in world competition.

~Rebel~

keith16 wrote: »

If all Allardyce has in his defence is pedantry, well...

Everyone else calls him Woy so that's ok too. Got it.

When asked? Ha! "They asked me gaffer, they made me say it". Please.

These sound like the defensive arguments of a child tbh.

If this, if that....fact is, he was caught with his pants down and has no one to blame except himself.

What? No. You represented one comparison of the argument. I pointed out that your comparison was not an accurate reflection of the situation. There's a very large difference between saying something to your coworkers at your place of work (what you said), and saying something in a private environment, away from work.

i think the "Woy" thing is idiotic, but provided context for it. I think he's a moron for saying it, just as I think there are tens of thousands of morons across the country doing the same.

And as I said, I think it's fair enough that he's been fired for being careless while holding a very public office, but would rather people were accurate rather than spreading false information.

dsmythy

A bunch of ex managers from 10 years ago would be boring in the end really. Wonder how many of them had a few months at most and were sacked.

Shanotheslayer

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

Pep squeaky clean?

Aye, right.

Any sources or?

fryup

the papers must have had the tabs on him for a good while....this sting was long planned i reckon

Shanotheslayer

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Any sources or?

Of course not. Pure hyperbole I'm guessing.

A scoop of Pep would be a bigger story than wee Sam

~Rebel~

fryup wrote: »

the papers must have had the tabs on him for a good while....this sting was long planned i reckon

Seems they're just doing a scattershot approach...asking all and sundry to come for this chat, and seeing what sort of dirt they can latch onto.

josip

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Loads of Superinjunctions coming over the next couple of days.

Ah superinjunctions.
googles Imogen Thomas...