Telegraph Investigations Megathread - Sam Allardyce resigns as England Manager

josip

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Loads of Superinjunctions coming over the next couple of days.

Ah superinjunctions.
googles Imogen Thomas...

Harry Palmr

Lord TSC wrote: »

Updating the thread title, to reflect Sam's exit AND the fact there's more stuff to come.

Talking of...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/27/exclusive-eight-premier-league-managers-took-transfer-bungs-clai/

Eight current and former Premier League managers stand accused of receiving “bungs” for player transfers after The Daily Telegraph found widespread evidence of corruption in the English game.

Football agents were filmed by undercover reporters boasting about how many managers they had paid, with one agent saying that in football, “everything is under the table”.

Later this week the Telegraph will also disclose the name of an assistant manager at a leading club who was filmed accepting a £5,000 cash payment from undercover reporters posing as representatives of a Far Eastern firm that wanted to invest in players.

The eight managers, as described by the article....

Manager 1

Ex-Premier League manager allegedly liked “bungs” in cash or deposited in a Swiss bank account. Pagliara said: “I can call [X] now and all it is with [X] is 'How much, Pino? And will it be the same Swiss bank account?’”

Manager 2

Ex-top flight manager has had “more backhanders than Wimbledon”. Pagliara said: “This is what I hate... the guy that used to need the money but he’s had so much now that all of a sudden he’s whiter than white.”

Manager 3

After managing several British clubs, he was allegedly fired by one for having “his fingers in the till”. Pagliara said he would get involved if “you understand that when we do deals I have to have a carrier bag with some cash”.

Manager 4

Pagliara said of this boss with Premier League experience: “We know him very, very well. We do a transfer, [X] has winked at us and said 'Yeah, I want the player. Is there a little coffee for me, Pino?’ Yeah, course there is.”

Manager 5

Ex-Premier League manager who, said Pagliara, would call him and say “here’s the number”, and give him details of a Swiss account. He said: “It was always numbered accounts.”

Manager 6

A former player who now manages, he allegedly likes extra money to secure deals because he is not on a big salary at his club. Pagliara said: “[X] takes a few [inaudible] because he’s not being paid big money.”

Manager 7

Ex-Premier League manager is another “we can put on the payroll”. If a player was transferred for £10m, “we’ll turn round to [X] and say, listen, if you take this player we’ll look after you. OK? OK, boom.”

Manager 8

Agent Dax Price said this long-serving manager would pick three trusted players and tell them he was paying them an extra £8,000 per month, on condition that they paid him £4,000 per month each.

They're all Harry Redknapp aren't they?!

fryup

fryup wrote: »

the papers must have had the tabs on him for a good while....this sting was long planned i reckon

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Seems they're just doing a scattershot approach...asking all and sundry to come for this chat, and seeing what sort of dirt they can latch onto.

nah, i don't buy that

why him of all people, they must have been tipped off

Harry Palmr

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They're all Harry Redknapp aren't they?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJBsI7RAuvk

BorneTobyWilde

So a manager would sign a player with clubs money even though he didn't want him, but what made him take player would be a few grand for himself. It's an awful thing to do to a club and fans.
It's a funny old thing, it's a bit like footballers who earn 250,000 a week having to bet a 1000 on a horse at 5-1 .

Agent Coulson

I think England should hold an X-Manager/England's Got Football/Big Manager/I'm A Manager Get Me In There competition for their next manager.


Text 01 for

Text 02 for

Text 03 for


Al texts cost "£$% and all money goes in a brown envelope for the winners agent.

BorneTobyWilde

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They're all Harry Redknapp aren't they?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMYOiK_iQeY

Arghus

Genuinely amazed that he's got the sack for this. I'm no Allardyce fan, not at all, but the substantive part of the allegations seem weak enough - certainly not strong enough for him to be out on his ear 24 hours after the story broke. I'd rather see him fail miserably on the football field than to be hounded out like this. He talked about third party ownership without necessarily saying he was in favour of it. A lot of other things he was agreeing to he seemed keen to run by the proper channels at The FA.

As for the other stuff about Hodgson and Neville, sure, that's nothing really, fairly tame stuff - he wasn't coming out with those comments for public ears.

I think there's a lot of smoke without too much fire. I'd have more questions about how The Telegraph put the story together.

kippy

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

So a manager would sign a player with clubs money even though he didn't want him, but what made him take player would be a few grand for himself. It's an awful thing to do to a club and fans.
It's a funny old thing, it's a bit like footballers who earn 250,000 a week having to bet a 1000 on a horse at 5-1 .

There have been a few interviews of late with an Irish agent (Fintan Drury ) on newstalk or second captains where he goes into some detail of the kind of shenanagans that go on behind the scenes in transfer dealings. One such thing was at the end of a deal to sign a particular player, the managers agent showing up, looking for their piece of the pie.....
Again, anyone that believes everything that goes on in football is squeaky clean better keep on believing in the easter bunny etc.
Interview here:
http://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Off_The_Ball/The_Off_the_Ball_Football_Show/84972/The_Role_of_a_Football_Agent__the_Battle_of_Manchester
towards the end of the podcast.
Well worth a listen.

~Rebel~

fryup wrote: »

nah, i don't buy that

why him of all people, they must have been tipped off

They're doing a big publicity grab, trying to catch out a bunch of managers;

Football for sale | What the Telegraph investigation will reveal
The Telegraph began investigating corruption in English football last year after receiving information that specific managers, officials and agents were taking or receiving cash payments to secure player transfers. Over the coming days the Telegraph will detail how:

The assistant manager of a high-profile football club accepted a £5,000 cash “bung”
Ten managers were named by players’ agents as taking bribes to fix player transfers
Two well-known managers discussed becoming ambassadors for the same fictitious firm as Sam Allardyce
Another high-profile manager admitted his players broke FA rules by betting on their own games but he failed to report it
A senior figure at a Premier League club helped undercover reporters to formulate a plan to bribe managers

So from that, they did exactly the same thing with at least two other managers.

As for the tipping off...about what? That he loves a bit of a deal? Sure we all know that. This whole sting wasn't part of a greater Big Sam thing...it's not something he was already involved in and they got a hidden camera in there - the Telegraph invented the fictitious company, and then went to a bunch of managers with this offer to be an ambassador for the company to see what they could get them to say on camera.

ahlookit

Arghus wrote: »

Genuinely amazed that he's got the sack for this. I'm no Allardyce fan, not at all, but the substantive part of the allegations seem weak enough - certainly not strong enough for him to be out on his ear 24 hours after the story broke. I'd rather see him fail miserably on the football field than to be hounded out like this. He talked about third party ownership without necessarily saying he was in favour of it. A lot of other things he was agreeing to he seemed keen to run by the proper channels at The FA.

As for the other stuff about Hodgson and Neville, sure, that's nothing really, fairly tame stuff - he wasn't coming out with those comments for public ears.

I think there's a lot of smoke without too much fire. I'd have more questions about how The Telegraph put the story together.

Obviously in the realm of speculation here, but you'd think the FAs first question for Allardyce this afternoon was "are there stories that could come out and do us more damage".

Once the press got their teeth into him they werent going to let go. All the old bung allegations from Panorama would be dragged up again, his son's former career as an agent, etc.

Did he ever sue BBC as he threatened over that show? Wikipedia says not, but it may be out of date...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_English_football_corruption_investigation

Beefy78

Billy86 wrote: »

You know who would be a major coup if they could somehow convince him? Manuel Pellegrini. Currently managing in China for whatever reason (money, I'm guessing), if I were running the search I'd at least be giving a call to see.

Still, not English enough. Needs more English in the English with the English to be English.

Why do you keep talking about it needing to be English? There's no demand for the manager to be English amongst the vast majority of the fan base and the FA sounded out both Klinsmann and Wenger in the Summer.

We just want the best person. He can be from Mars if he gets us to a semi final.

Beefy78

Maybe not Scotland tbf

Billy86

Beefy78 wrote: »

Why do you keep talking about it needing to be English? There's no demand for the manager to be English amongst the vast majority of the fan base and the FA sounded out both Klinsmann and Wenger in the Summer.

We just want the best person. He can be from Mars if he gets us to a semi final.

If they wanted the best person they would have hired the best person rather than this ridiculous insistence on having an English manager with Allardyce and Hodgson. I think it's fecking stupid but the FA seem more interested in "keeping England English" rather than getting the best person in for the job. Hence the sarcasm.

Beefy78

But that isn't what happened.

Hodgson was a last second appointment after Capello left mid-season so most of the top candidates were unavailable. Allardyce was, mystifyingly, considered to be the top candidate once Wenger ruled himself out. I've seen nothing from either the FA or the fan base at large to suggest that it has to be an English person.

If you've a link that trumps my experience then I'd love to see it.

Pro. F

Permanent managers since 2000:

Sven
McClaren
Capello
Hodgeson
Allardyce

Wouldn't be any surprise if the next one was not English.

~Rebel~

Beefy78 wrote: »

But that isn't what happened.

Hodgson was a last second appointment after Capello left mid-season so most of the top candidates were unavailable. Allardyce was, mystifyingly, considered to be the top candidate once Wenger ruled himself out. I've seen nothing from either the FA or the fan base at large to suggest that it has to be an English person.

If you've a link that trumps my experience then I'd love to see it.

Is that not the proof in and of itself though? It's one of the best paid jobs in world football, and they gave it to Sam Allardyce.

I think you're right that it didn't HAVE to be an English person, but I think they were heavily biased in that direction. English or very accustomed to English football.

Would love to see them move for someone like Bielsa though. He's available, has a wealth of international experience, plays a system and style that actually suits the young exciting quick attacking players England have. His teams also have plenty of heart with a firm bite to them, never shy of a tackle. On the negative side, he's a bit nuts, but sure ****it, it'd be good craic!

Beefy78

It should be someone very accustomed to English football. That should absolutely be a top criteria. Doesn't have to be English though - it is fairly apparent that they wanted Wenger in the Summer and were also keen on Klinsmann.

K-9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not seeing this as an issue for which he should be sacked. Looks like they were hoping for him to take more of the bait and he actually stayed the right side of the line throughout. The headline and the way the story has been presented ultimately misrepresents the content. A low form of scum journalism, that screams of personal vendettas within the ownership and / or editorial function of the paper.

He was caught. This sort of stuff was going on years and it took this "scum journalism" to out it, nobody else seemed bothered.

LiamoSail

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Of course not. Pure hyperbole I'm guessing.

A scoop of Pep would be a bigger story than wee Sam

If Guadiola gets caught for anything, I'd imagine it'd be more likely to be uncovered by Russian hackers ala Team Sky than by the Telegraph.

LiamoSail

Beefy78 wrote: »

Why do you keep talking about it needing to be English? There's no demand for the manager to be English amongst the vast majority of the fan base and the FA sounded out both Klinsmann and Wenger in the Summer.

We just want the best person. He can be from Mars if he gets us to a semi final.

Nigel Farage and the 60% who sided with him may beg to differ

~Rebel~

K-9 wrote: »

He was caught. This sort of stuff was going on years and it took this "scum journalism" to out it, nobody else seemed bothered.

Caught doing though?

Really it's for saying things he shouldn't be saying if not 100% sure it wouldn't be public.

It's like if someone catches you on camera down the pub after a bad week having a rant about your boss and the inefficient outdated structures at work, and then shows the video to your boss. Probably enough to get the sack for, but is there really any righteous act done? Any grave ill defeated?

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Caught doing though?

Think the FA statement sums it up pretty well.

Inappropriate conduct...a significant error of judgement...need to protect wider interests of the game and maintain highest standards of conduct...integrity at all times etc.

All of which is accepted by Allardyce. And so he has blown the highest paid job in international football. There is an irony that his own greed for even more money was his downfall.

ButtersSuki

I found this review of Big Scam's autobiography on Amazon, it's amusing:


The Bovine Buffoon
Byi a foxon 8 November 2015
“I think Leicester are unique in the fact that they don’t have to be pretty. They don’t have to play a certain way. The way that they’re playing is so good, their fans love it. Whereas fans at some bigger clubs might moan about it and complain about them playing ‘not the right type of football’.”

These stupid words were said by bovine impressionist Sam Allardyce after his seedless Sunderland side were beaten by the Foxes on Sunday.

As ever with Allardyce it’s nonsense, but nonsense with an agenda. I doubt any fans of any other clubs would moan about their side playing like Leicester City, what with them being top of the bloody league. In my experience, fans, rather notoriously, love being top of the league by seven points.

As ever with the jowly old ox, he’s trying, in what he thinks is a clever way, to tell us something about himself and by extension about us too.

Allardyce loves to imply that someone other than himself is to blame for whatever crime against football he’s currently committing. So after being beaten, he’s saying rubbish like this in order to almost suggest his side could play like Leicester, but that fans would criticise him for playing that way. His paranoia is seemingly always there, always bubbling away, feeling persecuted and under attack, feeling under-appreciated and deprived of what’s rightfully his. This despite the fact that the media as a whole completely white-wash everything he does. To listen to Soccer Saturday each week, you’d think Allardyce was a huge success, even though Sunderland have been elevated by just one place since he arrived.

Painting this as anything other than a poor performance should be impossible. Whatever qualities Allardyce has as a manager, and he must have some, the best you could say this season is that he’s not made Sunderland any worse. This fact is consistently painted as a huge achievement. Well, it’s not. Why is there not at least one pundit or commentator saying this? I may have missed an extended excoriation of Allardyce somewhere, but more usually, there is a party line to be toed about him which is ‘he’ll keep you up’ and if he doesn’t, then the players have let him down. He is forever absolved of criticism, forever innocent of the crime of being mediocre.

Listening to how great Allardyce’s acolytes seem to think he is, you could be forgiven for thinking he had a bulging trophy cabinet. However, he has won just two trophies. The League of Ireland First Division with Limerick and the third division title with Notts County, 18 years ago. After that, nothing. Even his two promotions from the Championship were achieved through the play-offs and not automatically.

If you raised this paucity of achievement on Soccer Saturday, they’d tell you that his inability to win anything is because he’s not given time or money. They will tell you how modern his methods are and point to some vibrating plate upon which, at least in spirit, Kevin Nolan is forever having every molecule in his body vibrated.

But of course, in the 18 years since that third division win Nott County, many sides have won trophies without being big spenders. And anyway, Allardyce is given funds at clubs, he just can’t use them well enough to make an excellent side. If he’d taken over Leicester City, would they be top by seven points? Of course not. It’s nine years since he left Bolton and his win ratio at Newcastle, Blackburn and West Ham is in the mid 30s. Across his whole career it’s just under 39%; at Sunderland it is a miserable 24%. This all too well illustrates the limitations of his talent. His methods may or may not be modern, but one thing is self-evident, they’re not producing good results or good football.

Which brings us neatly and embarrassingly from the Allardyce fan club to West Ham United. Not a weekend goes by without someone saying these words “be careful for what you wish for”. Paul Merson was doing it this weekend in relation to Tony Pulis perhaps not getting a new contract at West Brom. Of course. God forbid anyone might ever question an English manager’s ability to entertain and make paying money to watch football anything other than the sporting equivalent of hitting yourself in the face with a brick.

West Ham fans were finger-wagged by the likes of Merson for wanting to see some better football. Under Slaven Bilic, West Ham United are transformed and are a joy to watch. Tactically flexible and full of adventure and flair, they can play it direct for flying mallet, Andy Carroll, or they can weave some magic through Dimitri Payet. Releasing them from the burden of Allardyce’s management has made them into top-four challengers. Why couldn’t Allardyce achieve that? There’s one answer. He’s not good enough. He is conservative and he’s negative and he scouts poorly.

There’s only so long his unofficial PR people can keep denying this by saying he once signed some flair players for Bolton 10 years ago. The fact those players stand out is precisely because he almost never does. And you can be sure that as soon as his fan boys have told you he once signed someone who was good, they’ll tell you that the common assumption that he plays long ball football is totally wrong. It’s an accusation that infuriates the man himself. And this is behind his comments about Leicester.

They play long balls.

They beat Sunderland by playing long balls.

The long balls that Allardyce has been dogged by.

He must have been sickened by that. There’s one difference though, Leicester do it with speed, skill and rapier-like accuracy. They don’t boot it long for Kev Davies to try and score one with his massive bum.

Of course, the reason fans tire of him isn’t because of his sides playing long ball football and never has been; that was always a straw man argument created by Allardyce himself to express his paranoia at his own failure. No, they get sick of him because he plays boring football. Newcastle United fans to this day are rightly unashamed that they got him out of the club for the crime of being boring. Naturally, Merson et al will sit upright, stare wildly and default to saying ‘be careful what you wish for…’ but that still makes no difference to Geordies and nor should it. No-one wishes to witness poor, boring football.

Leicester are brilliant and thrilling. No-one has ever said that about an Allardyce side because he can’t play brilliant, thrilling football. If he could, there would be some substantial evidence of it in his career.

Allardyce loves to pretend that whatever currently fashionable way of playing is definitely something he could do if only given the resources and belief. No-one outside of the toadying cabal of ex-player pundits thinks this is true, but in the dissection of this weekend’s football in the media, will you see anyone say that? Almost certainly, no. Sunderland are still in the relegation places because Allardyce isn’t good enough to make them any better. If they do stay up, it won’t be a brilliant achievement, at all. It will be just one more illustration of how mediocre he is. Is that really something Sunderland should wish for?

I wonder will he sue the journos like the way he did to BBC after the 2006 bung allegations

Dirty Dingus McGee

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I found this review of Big Scam's autobiography on Amazon, it's amusing:


The Bovine Buffoon
Byi a foxon 8 November 2015
“I think Leicester are unique in the fact that they don’t have to be pretty. They don’t have to play a certain way. The way that they’re playing is so good, their fans love it. Whereas fans at some bigger clubs might moan about it and complain about them playing ‘not the right type of football’.”

These stupid words were said by bovine impressionist Sam Allardyce after his seedless Sunderland side were beaten by the Foxes on Sunday.

As ever with Allardyce it’s nonsense, but nonsense with an agenda. I doubt any fans of any other clubs would moan about their side playing like Leicester City, what with them being top of the bloody league. In my experience, fans, rather notoriously, love being top of the league by seven points.

As ever with the jowly old ox, he’s trying, in what he thinks is a clever way, to tell us something about himself and by extension about us too.

Allardyce loves to imply that someone other than himself is to blame for whatever crime against football he’s currently committing. So after being beaten, he’s saying rubbish like this in order to almost suggest his side could play like Leicester, but that fans would criticise him for playing that way. His paranoia is seemingly always there, always bubbling away, feeling persecuted and under attack, feeling under-appreciated and deprived of what’s rightfully his. This despite the fact that the media as a whole completely white-wash everything he does. To listen to Soccer Saturday each week, you’d think Allardyce was a huge success, even though Sunderland have been elevated by just one place since he arrived.

Painting this as anything other than a poor performance should be impossible. Whatever qualities Allardyce has as a manager, and he must have some, the best you could say this season is that he’s not made Sunderland any worse. This fact is consistently painted as a huge achievement. Well, it’s not. Why is there not at least one pundit or commentator saying this? I may have missed an extended excoriation of Allardyce somewhere, but more usually, there is a party line to be toed about him which is ‘he’ll keep you up’ and if he doesn’t, then the players have let him down. He is forever absolved of criticism, forever innocent of the crime of being mediocre.

Listening to how great Allardyce’s acolytes seem to think he is, you could be forgiven for thinking he had a bulging trophy cabinet. However, he has won just two trophies. The League of Ireland First Division with Limerick and the third division title with Notts County, 18 years ago. After that, nothing. Even his two promotions from the Championship were achieved through the play-offs and not automatically.

If you raised this paucity of achievement on Soccer Saturday, they’d tell you that his inability to win anything is because he’s not given time or money. They will tell you how modern his methods are and point to some vibrating plate upon which, at least in spirit, Kevin Nolan is forever having every molecule in his body vibrated.

But of course, in the 18 years since that third division win Nott County, many sides have won trophies without being big spenders. And anyway, Allardyce is given funds at clubs, he just can’t use them well enough to make an excellent side. If he’d taken over Leicester City, would they be top by seven points? Of course not. It’s nine years since he left Bolton and his win ratio at Newcastle, Blackburn and West Ham is in the mid 30s. Across his whole career it’s just under 39%; at Sunderland it is a miserable 24%. This all too well illustrates the limitations of his talent. His methods may or may not be modern, but one thing is self-evident, they’re not producing good results or good football.

Which brings us neatly and embarrassingly from the Allardyce fan club to West Ham United. Not a weekend goes by without someone saying these words “be careful for what you wish for”. Paul Merson was doing it this weekend in relation to Tony Pulis perhaps not getting a new contract at West Brom. Of course. God forbid anyone might ever question an English manager’s ability to entertain and make paying money to watch football anything other than the sporting equivalent of hitting yourself in the face with a brick.

West Ham fans were finger-wagged by the likes of Merson for wanting to see some better football. Under Slaven Bilic, West Ham United are transformed and are a joy to watch. Tactically flexible and full of adventure and flair, they can play it direct for flying mallet, Andy Carroll, or they can weave some magic through Dimitri Payet. Releasing them from the burden of Allardyce’s management has made them into top-four challengers. Why couldn’t Allardyce achieve that? There’s one answer. He’s not good enough. He is conservative and he’s negative and he scouts poorly.

There’s only so long his unofficial PR people can keep denying this by saying he once signed some flair players for Bolton 10 years ago. The fact those players stand out is precisely because he almost never does. And you can be sure that as soon as his fan boys have told you he once signed someone who was good, they’ll tell you that the common assumption that he plays long ball football is totally wrong. It’s an accusation that infuriates the man himself. And this is behind his comments about Leicester.

They play long balls.

They beat Sunderland by playing long balls.

The long balls that Allardyce has been dogged by.

He must have been sickened by that. There’s one difference though, Leicester do it with speed, skill and rapier-like accuracy. They don’t boot it long for Kev Davies to try and score one with his massive bum.

Of course, the reason fans tire of him isn’t because of his sides playing long ball football and never has been; that was always a straw man argument created by Allardyce himself to express his paranoia at his own failure. No, they get sick of him because he plays boring football. Newcastle United fans to this day are rightly unashamed that they got him out of the club for the crime of being boring. Naturally, Merson et al will sit upright, stare wildly and default to saying ‘be careful what you wish for…’ but that still makes no difference to Geordies and nor should it. No-one wishes to witness poor, boring football.

Leicester are brilliant and thrilling. No-one has ever said that about an Allardyce side because he can’t play brilliant, thrilling football. If he could, there would be some substantial evidence of it in his career.

Allardyce loves to pretend that whatever currently fashionable way of playing is definitely something he could do if only given the resources and belief. No-one outside of the toadying cabal of ex-player pundits thinks this is true, but in the dissection of this weekend’s football in the media, will you see anyone say that? Almost certainly, no. Sunderland are still in the relegation places because Allardyce isn’t good enough to make them any better. If they do stay up, it won’t be a brilliant achievement, at all. It will be just one more illustration of how mediocre he is. Is that really something Sunderland should wish for?

Considering Sunderland managed to escape from relegation despite looking certain to be relegated for a long time last season and considering West Ham look fairly sh1te at the moment I think the fella who wrote that piece although somewhat accurate at the time may have to rethink his views.

Allardyce is really good at what he does at it makes him better than the vast majority of managers working in the game today.He's clearly quite a good manager and I'm sure there are a lot of teams in the premier league right now that would love to have him.Also I don't think his teams are anywhere near as bad to watch as it's portrayed.

Using Leicester as a measuring stick is completely pointless as clearly they're league win was just lightning in a bottle for one season and helped by a really poor premier league last year.

prettyboy81

If his name was Sam Allardici he would never have been caught

weldoninhio

eagle eye wrote: »

Firstly you want to be careful with the wording you use. Allardyce hasn't actually broke any laws based on what has been revealed by the Telegraph.

The tax payer actually pays for people called Police to investigate and charge lawbreakers.

Firstly, telling people how to circumvent FA rules is cheating. Allardyce is a cheat. You don't have to break the law to be a cheat. You are mixing cheat up with criminal.

Secondly, no one has said that Allardyce broke any laws, there's been no allegations that he's broken any laws, so why would the tax paid police officers be interested in pursuing this???

Beefy78

LiamoSail wrote: »

Nigel Farage and the 60% who sided with him may beg to differ

Nonsense. Take that ****e to After Hours

josip

England more frequently choose foreign managers of their national team than many other countries.

France - last foreign manager was Stefan Kovacs 1973 - 75
Germany - never
Italy - never
Spain - Only one was SantaMaria 82-85 and he had also played for Spain
Brasil, Argentina - ever?

inforfun

Can the FA not just take Danny Blind, please?
Might not be English but the name is English enough and he is squeaky clean as he never said or did anything shocking worth mentioning.

Only issue i see is that there are not many English players with a history at Ajax he can make a squad from.

But if they insist on English.... brrr. Hodgson and Allardyce were both not exactly appointments that made the rest of the world shaking in their boots.

ahlookit

josip wrote: »

England more frequently choose foreign managers of their national team than many other countries.

France - last foreign manager was Stefan Kovacs 1973 - 75
Germany - never
Italy - never
Spain - Only one was SantaMaria 82-85 and he had also played for Spain
Brasil, Argentina - ever?

The main criteria for the next manager will be someone who's reputation is whiter than white. The FA tend to hire a new manager based on the perceived weakness of the previous one.

Sven wasn't English enough, need a young English manger - get McClaren,
He was too inexperienced - get Capello
He was too foreign - get Hodgson
His team lacked organisation and fight - get Allardyce

keeponhurling

maybe Guus Hiddink could do it

NIMAN

Klinsmann?

inforfun

keeponhurling wrote: »

maybe Guus Hiddink could do it

Pretty sure the English press will find (more) **** on him as well, if they dig deep enough.

He is already not clean. Taxdodging (€1,4 million in totall) in The Netherlands got him a €45000 fine and 6 months suspended in 2007

ricero

Big sam playing the victim this morning. Horrible man

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Considering Sunderland managed to escape from relegation despite looking certain to be relegated for a long time last season and considering West Ham look fairly sh1te at the moment I think the fella who wrote that piece although somewhat accurate at the time may have to rethink his views.

West Ham under Allardyce:
2012/13: 10th place, 46 pts
2013/14: 13th place, 40 pts
2014/15: 12th place, 47 pts

West Ham post Allardyce:
2015/16: 7th place, 62 pts.

Thepoet85

ricero wrote:

Big sam playing the victim this morning. Horrible man

"Entrapment has won the day". Doesn't seem one bit remorseful.

Lovely Bloke

Thepoet85 wrote: »

"Entrapment has won the day". Doesn't seem one bit remorseful.

he said he apologised

Link

I apologised to the FA and to all concerned for the unfortunate situation that I put myself in

What do you want? Sackcloth and ashes?

ahlookit

Lord TSC wrote: »

Updating the thread title, to reflect Sam's exit AND the fact there's more stuff to come.

Talking of...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/27/exclusive-eight-premier-league-managers-took-transfer-bungs-clai/

<snip>

Manager 8

Agent Dax Price said this long-serving manager would pick three trusted players and tell them he was paying them an extra £8,000 per month, on condition that they paid him £4,000 per month each.[/i]

Knew this reminded me of something I'd read before...

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/jason-puncheon-takes-to-twitter-to-accuse-neil-warnock-of-being-crooked/


The FA's response?

Fine Puncheon, naturally.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/mar/04/jason-puncheon-fined-twitter-comments-neil-warnock

Thepoet85

Thepoet85 wrote: »

"Entrapment has won the day". Doesn't seem one bit remorseful.

Poor Sam.

It's not me, it's you

ahlookit

LiamoSail wrote: »

If Guadiola gets caught for anything, I'd imagine it'd be more likely to be uncovered by Russian hackers ala Team Sky than by the Telegraph.

Or the Spanish inquisition (sorry!) into Fuentes and his clients

In January 2013, the Operacion Puerto trial went underway, and Eufemiano Fuentes offered to reveal the names of all the athletes who were his clients. Julia Santamaria, the judge presiding the trial, told Fuentes that he was not under obligations to name any athlete other than the cyclists implicated. Fuentes stated that he supplied athletes in other sports with drugs and said: “I could identify all the samples [of blood]. If you give me a list I could tell you who corresponds to each code on the [blood] packs.”[31]

On the 30 April 2013 Fuentes was found guilty and given a one-year suspended prison sentence. The judge also ruled on a request to hand over blood bags to the Spanish anti-doping agency. The judge ordered the blood bags destroyed, but the anti-doping agency has appealed.[32] Additional appeals where filed by the Union Cycliste Internationale, the Italian National Olympic Committee and the World Anti-Doping Agency, as well as by the prosecution.[33] On 14 June 2016, the original verdict against Fuentes was overruled and he was cleared of all charges. However, 211 blood bags from his laboratory are set to be handed over to anti-doping authorities for investigation.[34]

On 5 July 2006, Fuentes was indignant that only cyclists had been named and said he also worked with tennis and football players.[2] On 27 July 2006, IAAF was assured by Spanish prosecutors that no track and field athletes were involved.[58] On 23 September 2006, former cyclist Jesús Manzano told reporters from France 3 that he had seen "well-known footballers" from La Liga visit the offices of Dr Fuentes.[59]

In May 2007 Sepp Blatter, president of FIFA, at a World Anti-Doping Agency meeting in Montreal, was reportedly interested in the contents "of the Puerto file".[60] Le Monde had reported in December 2006 that they had possession of documents of Fuentes detailing "seasonal preparation plans" for Spanish football clubs FC Barcelona and Real Madrid. These plans did not specifically name any players.[61] This news seem to be only rumors, since the French journal lost its trials in 2009 and 2011 against the FC Barcelona because it could not produce any proof of its allegations. In the ultimate judgement, on 14 November 2011, it was condemned to pay 15,000 euros of indemnity for "using false and unverified facts".[62]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto_doping_case

Dirty Dingus McGee

Billy86 wrote: »

West Ham under Allardyce:
2012/13: 10th place, 46 pts
2013/14: 13th place, 40 pts
2014/15: 12th place, 47 pts

West Ham post Allardyce:
2015/16: 7th place, 62 pts.

1 season.

Do the same analysis for Bolton and Blackburn and almost certainly Sunderland.

Lovely Bloke

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

he said he apologised

Link

What do you want? Sackcloth and ashes?

I'd expect him to do a bit more than chalk it off as being silly or an error in judgement.

It is unacceptable for anyone to go shooting their mouth off to strangers about his employers, his players, the President of the organisation that employs him, his predecessors, his colleagues etc.

That comment suggests he doesn't really appreciate what he has done. If I insulted my colleagues and clients to a stranger because money was waved in my face, I can have no complaints if that is made public and I'm out of a job.

He will at least be aware of issues like non disparagement, discretion, respect and confidentiality in the next job. Hopefully anyway.

Billy86

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

1 season.

Do the same analysis for Bolton and Blackburn and almost certainly Sunderland.

Then why did you even bring West Ham up? That one season is the only season since he left, and yet it doesn't show anything but the 6 games from this year so far do?

I'm not saying he's a bad manager, I'm saying West Ham did better -significantly better- once he left. So bringing them up made no sense on your end.

thebaz

ricero wrote: »

Big sam playing the victim this morning. Horrible man

I feal a certain amount of sympathy for him - at most his crime was Greed , but football people seam to be put up to be the moral compass of a Nation (England) - its football - not politics or religion - he made a mistake was stitched up by scummy journalism - the world we live is far from perfect , far far worse crimes than what Big Sam walked into,

Dots1982

At the end of the day, England and the FA have saved themselves a waste of time here. Big Sam was underqualified for the job having never coached really elite world class players in his 20 or so years coaching (maybe one or two exceptions I'm forgetting). Never coached in the CL. Barely ever finished in the Top half of the table. His main qualification was he was English and all the world class managers outside England were unavailable.

inforfun

Dots1982 wrote: »

At the end of the day, England and the FA have saved themselves a waste of time here. Big Sam was underqualified for the job having never coached really elite world class players in his 20 or so years coaching (maybe one or two exceptions I'm forgetting). Never coached in the CL. Barely ever finished in the Top half of the table. His main qualification was he was English and all the world class managers outside England were unavailable.

So the right man for the right job then....

ahlookit

Dots1982 wrote: »

At the end of the day, England and the FA have saved themselves a waste of time here. Big Sam was underqualified for the job having never coached really elite world class players in his 20 or so years coaching (maybe one or two exceptions I'm forgetting). Never coached in the CL. Barely ever finished in the Top half of the table. His main qualification was he was English and all the world class managers outside England were unavailable.

Ah here, some may have been past their best when he signed them, but at Bolton he managed Eidur Gudjonsson, Youri Djorkaeff, Jayjay Okocha, Fernando Hierro, Gary Speed, Nicolas Anelka.

Are there many in the England squad better than them?

Pro. F

thebaz wrote: »

I feal a certain amount of sympathy for him - at most his crime was Greed , but football people seam to be put up to be the moral compass of a Nation (England) - its football - not politics or religion - he made a mistake was stitched up by scummy journalism - the world we live is far from perfect , far far worse crimes than what Big Sam walked into,

No, at most his crime was cheating, cheating the regulations on player ownership and transfers that his employers oversee. That's more than bad enough to get the sack for.