Wife v stepdaughter

LegacyUser

It is time for you to man up as they say.

The reality is you have spent very little time with this child. Her home life in the Uk has not been good and it could be for any number of reasons why she can't stay with her mother. Both you and your wife are the adults here and you need to realise that your daughter has to come first now.
You need to go to the Uk and speak to the social workers to find out what has been happening in her life. You need to spend time with your daughter and get to know her. Let her know your going to be their for her and that she will be coming to live with you in Ireland.

Your wife need to spend time with your daughter in the Uk also without your other children. If your daughter needs some counselling or supports I would get the social worker in the uk to contact your local camhs service in Ireland.

Your daughter is now 12 and she has been through a lot. She needs your help and support now and not to be left in the care system in the Uk. The reality is yes your wife may not like this but the reality is she knew you had a child before she married you.
She also needs to accept the fact that some times life does not go according to plan but you have to make the best of the situation you find yourself in. The reality is that this child is your daughter and she needs her father now.

She needs to move into a home where she is welcome and supported to help her become a decent adult. I know it may not be easy but in 10 to 15 years time do you want to see her in a bad situation in the Uk or living in Ireland with qualifications, a good job and a happy life.

Calhoun

Thanks for responding, i see what your saying now and it makes allot of sense.

Water John

I know a good few families where one parent has a child from a previous relationship and OH whom they then marry, accepts both fully. Some go on to have children of their own, one I know does not.
Its not particularly hard to become the parent to a child that is not yours biologically. I think both parents here must step up. This girl will be 18 in 6 years time and may then leave the nest. that's not a lifetime and will quickly pass, but it is a vital time for this girl.
Its his wife's choice as to whether this man ends up living separately and being father to three children or all doing it under the one roof. She needs positive help in coming to the right conclusion. Over judging her does not help in any way.

CelticRambler

One gets the impression that some contributors to this thread aren't reading what's been written by the OP. Nowhere has he said that he's on the point of leaving his current wife, so there's no blame to be thrown at him for something he hasn't done. :rolleyes:

Secondly, he's said that his eldest daughter wants to join her half-sisters, and he's said that the Irish sisters get on (very?) well with their estranged half-sister.

So their are four individuals involved that have no problem, and one who would appear to be acting unreasonably. There's obviously some backstory there that we haven't heard about, and maybe the OP doesn't even know why it's such a problem for his wife, but FFS stop trying to crucify for actually asking for ideas and opinions before he's made any decision. :frown:

Having thought about this overnight, and assuming their aren't any "toxic adolescent" issues to deal with, I think the most effective solution would be for the OP to find a 'not-really' foster home for the eldest daughter in his own locality, so that she can start a new life in Ireland as soon as possible, have as much contact as possible with her dad and her siblings, and MrsOP can be shown that she doesn't have anything to worry about.

Loveinapril

CelticRambler wrote: »

Having thought about this overnight, and assuming their aren't any "toxic adolescent" issues to deal with, I think the most effective solution would be for the OP to find a 'not-really' foster home for the eldest daughter in his own locality, so that she can start a new life in Ireland as soon as possible, have as much contact as possible with her dad and her siblings, and MrsOP can be shown that she doesn't have anything to worry about.

To be fostered, he would actually have to sign his daughter over to the care of the HSE. To me this does not make sense when he loves his kid and is capable of caring for her. Why would he put his daughter through being a 'care kid'? He could also get very little say in where she would end up due to shortages in foster carers. Or are you talking about him asking a relative or friend to parent his already vulnerable daughter in a new country? This would be hugely damaging to the girl. She has a father capable of caring for her. Its the wife who has the problem.

Speedwell

Loveinapril wrote: »

To be fostered, he would actually have to sign his daughter over to the care of the HSE. To me this does not make sense when he loves his kid and is capable of caring for her. Why would he put his daughter through being a 'care kid'? He could also get very little say in where she would end up due to shortages in foster carers. Or are you talking about him asking a relative or friend to parent his already vulnerable daughter in a new country? This would be hugely damaging to the girl. She has a father capable of caring for her. Its the wife who has the problem.

Yes, this exactly. What a horrible message it sends to the daughter: "Here, honey, I love you and want you to be taken care of, so I'm going to give you up to strangers to do it in a random home separate from the one I share with the family I actually want to stay with".

sillysmiles

CelticRambler wrote: »

assuming their aren't any "toxic adolescent" issues to deal with

Someone further up mentioned about the wife setting the houserules and the daughter having to abide by them and combined with you mentioning adolescence it got me thinking that the OP needs to prepare himself and his family for life after she moves in.
There are going to be adolescent issues to deal with. The daughter is probably going to be incredibly upset - her whole life is being turned upside down.
Putting pressue on a pre-teen in a f*cked up situation to not act out is ridiculous.
The OP needs to get himself some help and support for when she does move in with them as she is going to push him and act out and rebel and he will need to show her that no matter what he is there for her.

CelticRambler

The OP said he needs to make a decision within a couple of days. I think we can all agree that that's not at all ideal, but if the UK social services are already involved, I can well understand that everything will be taken out of his hands and his daughter will disappear into the system regardless of what better options are available.

There's no point in the OP trying to force his wife to change her mind in two days if she's dead set against having the girl come to live in the family home - that'll only cause complications for everyone, probably sooner rather than later. But there's every chance the wife will change her attitude with a bit of gentle persuasion. Even so, that could take two or three months or longer.

That leaves the OP with two choices, either he abandons the family home and goes over to the UK to look after his daughter, staying in a hotel or wherever, giving all the wrong messages to his other two daughters, or he takes her to Ireland and has her stay somewhere nearby. Her life is already messed up; what the OP is looking for is a way to limit the mess long enough to find a better way (i.e. integrate her fully into a normal mammy-daddy-three children household) and it sounds like the best option is to get her over to Ireland and leading as much of a normal life as possible as quickly as possible.

If he can by-pass social services and come to some arrangement with a close family friend, that's bound to be better for him and his daughter than any other situation that involves to-ing and fro-ing. From how he's described his daughter, she sounds mature enough to understand that some kind of transitional agreement is needed, and from my own experience of teen/pre-teenage children, they're quite happy to accept these kind of 'off the record' solutions as long as they're fully informed of all the consequences.

The girl needs to be in school, she'd benefit from having close contact with her father and her half-sisters, so where she sleeps at night isn't going to be a deal-breaker. In the meantime, the OP can show his wife that he's taken account of her reservations, but he's not going to abandon any of his children. That's about the best compromise he can hope for in the time available.

CelticRambler

sillysmiles wrote: »

the OP needs to prepare himself and his family for life after she moves in.
There are going to be adolescent issues to deal with. The daughter is probably going to be incredibly upset - her whole life is being turned upside down.

I'd be more worried that the wife isn't prepared for it, and even if the eldest girl behaves impecably, she'll still get the blame when the other two go berserk as teenagers.

steved2010

Dear OP,

Firstly get a vasectomy, you have a daughter who is at risk and I assume she has been in that situation for the best part of 12 years and you're looking for advice here...get a vasectomy.

You have failed that poor girl, if you haven't stepped up in 12 years clearly you don't have the ability, to do so now or in the future. You are a failure as a father, man, human........Now....slap yourself HARD in the face.......you can take two steps to get on the road to fixing this s h i t .......
1. Tell your wife you love her and you love you kids, and you can not stand by any longer (mind you you did for 12 years) and let your daughter suffer (seriously you're a f u c k i n g waste of oxygen).
2. Drive to the airport, jump on a plane and be the father that child needs.

Then you should probably get a vasectomy (seriously you're a f u c k i n g a s s h o l e!!!!!)

Penny Tration

Steve, OP did not fail his child for twelve years. She lived with her mum and he clearly had access since she's been to visit him.


He also WANTS to take his daughter in.

njs030

steved2010 wrote: »

Dear OP,

Firstly get a vasectomy, you have a daughter who is at risk and I assume she has been in that situation for the best part of 12 years and you're looking for advice here...get a vasectomy.

You have failed that poor girl, if you haven't stepped up in 12 years clearly you don't have the ability, to do so now or in the future. You are a failure as a father, man, human........Now....slap yourself HARD in the face.......you can take two steps to get on the road to fixing this s h i t .......
1. Tell your wife you love her and you love you kids, and you can not stand by any longer (mind you you did for 12 years) and let your daughter suffer (seriously you're a f u c k i n g waste of oxygen).
2. Drive to the airport, jump on a plane and be the father that child needs.

Then you should probably get a vasectomy (seriously you're a f u c k i n g a s s h o l e!!!!!)

That's disgusting.
Obviously you haven't bothered to read the thread fully and see the post where he said he has a good relationship with his daughter.

January

Poster infrared for personal abuse.

steved2010

Oh, he said he has a good relationship with his daughter....oh well that changes everything.

He got my vote for father of the year!!!


"My said daughter visited a couple of years ago".....is that acceptable ???

I have read the thread, and here is a guy who's daughter is in danger..clear danger...and he is asking for advice on a forum....he needs to get across to the UK and be there for his child.

steved2010

Whilst I was harsh in my comments above...please take a few seconds to think about this poor 12 year old child who is in danger and potentially has been in that situation for a long long time. We have no idea why social services have advised she be removed from her mother's custody but I suspect social services would not take that decision lightly.

This child is at serious risk, she needs her Dad, (I suspect) the OP has not been there for her in the past and has not been a father to her....so right now he needs to slap himself in the face and be a man..be a dad.

Water John

Steve, you joined Boards 6 years ago. This seems to be one of very few posts you have done. Suggest you return to just being a spectator. You offer nothing positive to this man.

steved2010

I appreciate that I was harsh suggesting the OP get a vasectomy, and the name calling, I acknowledged that above.

The bottom line is that right this very second there is a very frightened 12 year old girl who needs her Dad.

I'm angry, he should be there by her side...not posting on boards.ie, she is 12!!!! on her own, abandoned!!!!

Others on boards are posting advice like: "Your wife, should allow a trial period of all living together" she is not a pet, or a music streaming service, she is a child and needs stability.

Finally, for anyone who took offence for my comments above, I apologise....this topic is close to home and I have seen the outcome, of what happens when a child is abandoned.

Water John

Accepted Steve. However, the job of managing human relationships is tied to the key principle of non judgement. This is the way for best results and allows those involved taking ownership of the decisions they make.
Have some experience of difficult upbringing, so can empathise with your feelings. This is no help to the OP though.

bambay

The essence of 'stepdaughter' in the title is to avoid ambiguity and besides and besides, my wife is her step-mum, regardless. I am very much active in her life and did attend an impromptu meeting in the UK with regard to this matter. I cannot neglect any of my kids.

Markcheese

Is it possible to contact a councillor , and /or child psycholigist, with your wife, .. you cant force things with your wife..
Her issues here are real... as is your daughters situation... you need to work through things one way or the other with your wife.. what ever ye decide .
Ye are going to have to live afterwards with what ever decision ye collectivly make ...

Water John

I think Mark the OP has already decided. The problem is, his wife has not bought into the answer, yet perhaps.
So its not, lets consider this and make a decision together.

Agree though, that 3rd party involvement may be of help. Another point is I wonder is their a religious dimension to their lives and would, that be a help or provide guidance for the OP?

bambay

There is no need to trade insults here. All I need is opinions from responsible adults and you obviously, are not eligible to contribute.
You can keep your unsolicited advice to yourself.
Thank u.

trixychic

bambay wrote: »

There is no need to trade insults here. All I need is opinions from responsible adults and you obviously, are not eligible to contribute.
You can keep your unsolicited advice to yourself.
Thank u.

Have you reached a decision?? Please let us know how things go.

Musketeer4

Might the wife be bluffing? Should OP call it?

I wonder when faced with the imminent loss of her husband and fracturing of the family would she relent?

Queen-Mise

Musketeer4 wrote:

I wonder when faced with the imminent loss of her husband and fracturing of the family would she relent?

Might the wife be bluffing? Should OP call it?

This is my thought. She mightn't necessarily be bluffing, or deliberately doing it anyway.

I think the reality of a marriage break up and informing family and friends of the reason for the marriage break up might be a wake up call.

And I think the OP has some tough decisions to make. Would you want to be married to someone who could see your 12 year old daughter being deliberately put into care? Depriving her of a blood family home and her sisters?

Best of luck OP - do right by the daughter who needs you, the rest will fall into place.

Musketeer4

Yeah. I sense that the die is cast between the wife and OP. Even if she relents, it will be through gritted teeth. How can a relationship continue happy when one party is seething with bitterness and resentment and the other feels like they've imposed the situation on the other by attrition and subjugation. A marriage that arrives at that point is shagged beyond repair in my opinion.

Anyhow the needs of one's child come before the needs/wants of one's spouse. The daughter has a right to live with her parent. The OP has a right to have his child. Now, as I explained in previous posts, I can understand the reasons why the wife is being like this but morally, however, she hasn't a leg to stand on.

Op should take in the daughter. Wife should be informed that daughter will be moving in with him and while he's willing to discuss and come to a mutually agreeable arrangement on the details of the living arrangements, her arrival in his home is non-negotiable. Wifey can either shape up or ship out.

Whatever happens, I think the marriage has already suffered some irreversible damage at best.

LegacyUser

Musketeer4 wrote: »

Might the wife be bluffing? Should OP call it?

I wonder when faced with the imminent loss of her husband and fracturing of the family would she relent?

I think she could be bluffing. If she lets this break up her marriage, can you imagine her telling people it was because she would rather put her stepdaughter into care than allow her to live with her family...

Water John

A lot of marriages work through many problems including, infidelity, addictions, etc.
Why be so harsh on OP and his wife.
Hope they work through it.

Speedwell

Water John wrote: »

A lot of marriages work through many problems including, infidelity, addictions, etc.
Why be so harsh on OP and his wife.
Hope they work through it.

Yeah, folks.... if we're going to bother to care enough about the OP and his daughter to make up the end of the story for them, it's just as easy to make up a good one.

primacalibre

I've been following this thread with interest.... just wondering if we can get an update from OP on how it worked out?

What decision was made in the end?

Hope it all worked out and their was at least some agreement reached for all parties.

bambay

Hi Everyone,
I wish to express my deep gratitude to you for following and contributing to this thread and also to abreast you with the present development with regard to my unenviable situation.
My wife is still very adamant in her decision not to accept my daughter in to the family unit in Ireland and as a result, I have secured a place (about 45mins drive away from her) where my daughter can live with me as the needs of children should take precedence over that of any spouse, including myself.
Unfortunately, the assigned Social Worker said it would be in the best interest of all family members to live as a single unit and as a consequence, would not allow me to execute my plans immediately until after their intervention. My wife, according to the Social Worker, will be contacted by their counterparts in Ireland for a chat/interview in due course and that if their effort to persuade her to be receptive towards her step daughter proves abortive, then they would release her to live with me, away from her.
In the meanwhile, she is under the care of a Foster carer on a rather temporary basis. I did pay her a couple of visits and she insists she would love us to leave as a family unit if only my wife could assure her on phone that she is welcomed. I have also booked a flight to see her next week as a way of reassuring her that I am always there for her, regardless.
The Social Worker commended my effort so far and told me she can not be placed on long term Foster care because she has a parent who wants her and whom she wants and that my wife does not have the right to deprive us of that wish.
She went on to say the only condition under which she could be placed on Long term care where she would be open for adoption is if I said I did not want her, in which case I would have had to disown her so she could be owned by the System who in turn could hand her over to adoptive parents.
To me, as I have made the System realize, that is not an option. I made it clear to the Social Worker that I am ready to come and get her even at a day's notice.
At this juncture, I would like to reiterate my gratitude to all of you for your interest and concern and I promise to update you as events unfold.

RedXIV

Not an easy decision but one you'll be proud of for the rest of your days! Well done OP, you've done the right thing and you should be very proud of yourself!

Musketeer4

Fair play to you man. You're daughter is very lucky to have you. I hope things go well and you and your daughter can live together in peace.

With all due respect dude, fúck your crazy ass wife! Why would you even want to be around someone like that with such little compassion and understanding?
It would do your daughter no favours either to have to live with someone who has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the living arrangments.

I'm just wondering what supports will be available to you? I'm not really sure how it works but you should get on to the social welfare and see do you qualify for single parent's allowance, family income supplement, children's allowance etc etc.

Tefral

OP i have been silently following this.

I am not a parent myself and although this must be the hardest thing in the world for you right now, you are definitely doing the right thing. Everyday you will be able to get up and look yourself in the mirror and know you are a good person.

The actions of your wife are mind boggling but everyone's problems are relative. To her this is obviously a massive deal.

You know that overused saying that's going around now "Not all heros wear capes" well 99% of the time its applied in the wrong manner but you sir are that 1%.

Take care of yourself.

Musketeer4

So OP, has your wife accepted that you're going to be moving away and as such your marriage is effectively over?
How was your marriage up until this issue arose? Were things all good or were things shaky in any way?

What I'm getting at is would there be any chance that she's using this deal breaker as a convenient tool with which to break up the marriage because she knows you'll move out if she sticks to her guns?
What do you think?

snor

Well done to you in being a great father.
I think your wife has done irreparable damage to her relationship with her own children. I do appreciate it is difficult for her. Her children will not look too kindly on this in the future - how she broke up the family unit by not allowing their fathers eldest daughter to live with them. She needs to think long and hard about this.

Ghekko

To be honest if your wife is so against a family unit she should be the one moving out and leaving you to continue to raise your children. I don't think many will support her decision to end her marriage in such a flippant manner. Best of luck going forward bambay.

trixychic

Thank God your doing your duty. Well done OP. I hope you and your daughters finally get into a situation that is best for you all.

Keep going. And best of luck.

jimmycrackcorm

snor wrote:

Well done to you in being a great father. I think your wife has done irreparable damage to her relationship with her own children. I do appreciate it is difficult for her. Her children will not look too kindly on this in the future - how she broke up the family unit by not allowing their fathers eldest daughter to live with them. She needs to think long and hard about this.

I also think that once the wife begins to appreciate the implications of the op living separately, both for their children and financial, then the contrast with her objections will be very stark to her.

primacalibre

bambay wrote: »

Hi Everyone,
I wish to express my deep gratitude to you for following and contributing to this thread and also to abreast you with the present development with regard to my unenviable situation.
My wife is still very adamant in her decision not to accept my daughter in to the family unit in Ireland and as a result, I have secured a place (about 45mins drive away from her) where my daughter can live with me as the needs of children should take precedence over that of any spouse, including myself.
Unfortunately, the assigned Social Worker said it would be in the best interest of all family members to live as a single unit and as a consequence, would not allow me to execute my plans immediately until after their intervention. My wife, according to the Social Worker, will be contacted by their counterparts in Ireland for a chat/interview in due course and that if their effort to persuade her to be receptive towards her step daughter proves abortive, then they would release her to live with me, away from her.
In the meanwhile, she is under the care of a Foster carer on a rather temporary basis. I did pay her a couple of visits and she insists she would love us to leave as a family unit if only my wife could assure her on phone that she is welcomed. I have also booked a flight to see her next week as a way of reassuring her that I am always there for her, regardless.
The Social Worker commended my effort so far and told me she can not be placed on long term Foster care because she has a parent who wants her and whom she wants and that my wife does not have the right to deprive us of that wish.
She went on to say the only condition under which she could be placed on Long term care where she would be open for adoption is if I said I did not want her, in which case I would have had to disown her so she could be owned by the System who in turn could hand her over to adoptive parents.
To me, as I have made the System realize, that is not an option. I made it clear to the Social Worker that I am ready to come and get her even at a day's notice.
At this juncture, I would like to reiterate my gratitude to all of you for your interest and concern and I promise to update you as events unfold.

All I can say is that first of all, fair play to you for taking the obvious very brave step of being willing to move out from the family home in order to be there for your daughter!!

The fact that YOU are the one having to move out is only another condemnation of how Irish society and "the system" as a whole treat fathers in this day and age, but alas that is a topic of discussion for another day....


I just hope and pray that your wife can see some sense (especially with the social workers being willing to speak to her) before it's too late and that she sees that she is not only causing you and your eldest child great emotional stress and damage, but also the detrimental impact that all of this break-up is/will have on your other two daughters!!

Tbh, knowing that you have stood by your daughter gives me relief that she will be okay from all of this, but I now just can't shake the feeling of how your two youngest are actually coping and what unknown toll it is placing on them. I believe that you already know this from your posts here, but it is important to stress that they not be neglected in this situation and that you be there for them just as much as you are for your eldest daughter. And I really hope that somewhere along the line, your wife stumbles across this thread so she can realise the full implications that her selfish decision will cause to you, your three daughters and, eventually, her as well....


As you say in your post, it is the most unenviable position to be in, and I hope that I will never have to face a similar decision in my life but if anything, from reading all the replies here and seeing the vast/full consensus that it is fully your wife who is in the wrong; it does give me at least some hope that there are many people out there that share the view that in certain situations, it is not always "the mother" who is right and that fathers too can make the difficult decisions necessary to benefit their children in the fairest way possible - even if that decision is truly heart-breaking....

ForestFire

Hello OP,

Was also following this and I agree that you are doing the right think for your Daughter in a difficult situation and well done for that.

I know this is probably far from you mind at the moment, and I do not have the answer, but does anyone know the implications of this separation (If long term and permanent) with regard to the Marriage, Maintenance, visitation rights etc?

Will the OP be looked on favorably due to the fact that he wanted the whole family to remain together and it was the wife causing the separation (Even if he has moved out) and he was needed by his other daughter.

Obviously the beast hope is that they work out their differences, But should the OP be doing anything now in preparation?

And I am not suggesting that he will not have to Pay maintenance for his other children, but just that he not not taken for a ride by the system

Musketeer4

Ghekko wrote: »

To be honest if your wife is so against a family unit she should be the one moving out and leaving you to continue to raise your children. I don't think many will support her decision to end her marriage in such a flippant manner. Best of luck going forward bambay.

Good point. Actually OP notwithstanding the fact that you are doing the right thing to go and support your daughter, on reflection I think it may perhaps have been an unwise decision to move out. SHE is the one throwing a spanner in the works not you so it is a valid argument that she should be the one out on her ear.

Personally I think you should try to eject her from the home since she is the one with the problem. The fact that you've already gone about getting a place for yourself may have hurt your chances of achieving this though.

Perhaps you should arrange a meeting with your solicitor and the social worker and say that you've rethought the arrangements and see what avenues are open to you for getting rid of your wife from the family home if she refuses to accept your daughter.

Your argument could be that your goal is to keep your family together as much as possible. First preference is all of you in family home (not gonna happen), second preference is to keep all siblings and one parent together (you and 3 kids in family home and wife moves out). You moving out and splitting family into 1 parent +2 kids and 1 parent +1 child would be the last resort.

December2012

Keep the faith OP. I'm sure it will work out. Did you or, would you, and your wife go to some marriage counselling?

Water John

Wish people would stop making assumptions about the OP's marriage. They may have a diff about his eldest daughter but may wish remain married.

OP you have been very strong and good. Stick with it and hope it works out reasonably well for everyone concerned.

Sleepy

Water John wrote: »

Wish people would stop making assumptions about the OP's marriage. They may have a diff about his eldest daughter but may wish remain married.

I'd say it's less an assumption about the OP's marriage than a judgement on his wife. The only thing we know about her is something most would consider grounds for divorce.

OP, go see a solicitor, it may be a long process but any reasonable court would give you the family home and custody of all 3 of your daughters.

I know it's a stretch to hope for an Irish family court to treat a man reasonably but we do keep hearing that things are getting more equitable and the pioneers in any such scenario are ordinary people - a friend of mine was recently the first in the history of the country in his legal situation to obtain guardianship of his step-child and he'd have no unusual resources or connections

Water John

Opinions and helpful suggestions/options differ from bias.

OP do what you think is best.

Gerry T

Op well done, I'm not sure I would have the strength you have shown to stand up for your daughter.
If you love your wife all is not lost, with time she will see what a great dad your being and will hopefully see your daughter is not a monster. I wouldn't close any doors, play it out and see what happens, but again well done for putting the needs of your daughter ahead of your own.

primacalibre

Sorry for going back to an older thread but I was just wondering if there was ever a solution to the OP's situation?

I followed this thread with interest and it would be nice to know if things ever got resolved....

Any response from OP is appreciated

Water John

Yes, it would be nice to know. However, I think the OP got a lot of reassurance from the comments and support on this thread. Even if we don't hear further.