Your reason for atheism

learn_more

So we've all watched the debates, read the books, heard all of the arguments.

But deep down we all know that God doesn't exist.

Just like someone who believes in God, even though they can give intellectual reasons for their beliefs, the reason for their beliefs is not because of the intellectual arguments they make, rather they make the arguments because they believe God exists in the first place.

In the same way one can make intellectual arguments against Gods existence. It is not those arguments that convince us that God does not exist. We know it in the first place, and make our arguments in support of that belief, working backwards, if you like.

But forget the arguments, what is your NO.1 reason for believing that God does not exist.

I will give mine, to start off.

I love to watch nature programmes. Life is fascinating.
Just today I was watching a nature documentary focused around Patagonia , which is located in the southern half of South America.

Whether the camera was focused on Pumas, Condors, Humming birds, or plants/flowers, they all had one thing in common...

That is that virtually everything they do, the way they look , the way they act, the colour of the flower, the shape of their claws, their whole anatomy, etc etc..., is all designed for one thing, that that is to survive and procreate.

Particularly flowers/plants, they don't make themselves look nice for humans enjoyment, they are designed to make themselves alluring to birds so they spread their pollen.

I see absolutely zero difference between wildlife of any kind and humans.

Everything humans do is essentially the same as those more primitive life forms.

Everything. Mums dote on their kids and protect them as if it were their own lives. Just look at the way animals go mental if their young are threatened. Wouldn't a mother protect her baby as if it were her own life. Isn't this programmed?

Puma's, bears, snow leopards, deer, endless list of animals/mammals, spend so much of their time training their offspring to fend for themselves ie, showing them how catch fish etc... whatever.

Humans spend a lot of time and money putting their kids through education, hoping they go to the best school etc....and that is all inspired to help us survive as a species, even though we might think we're behaving that way for our own selfish purposes.

All of this human behaviour is EXACTLY the same kind of behaviour you see in the animal kingdom, is it not ?

Therefore I don't any difference whatsoever between humans as a species and any other living organism on the planet , essentially. The fact we're the most intelligent is an utterly trivial difference.

Unless someone can show that all life on this planet goes to heaven or even hell, I can't see how we might be singled out to live for eternity, while other species die and even become extinct.

In fact I would say, humans are most intelligent as a direct result of a innate survival instinct that works to our benefit and survival.

Speedwell

The best review of the available evidence shows that there is no support for the existence of any god or divine being as typically conceived (if you want to believe a cheese toastie is God, you are welcome to present one and give your case for its godhood, I suppose). No known proposal in support of a potentially existing god or divine being stands up to rational scrutiny (i.e. it does not conform with demonstrable reality, or it is self-inconsistent).

magicbastarder

god is an answer in search of the right question.

intheclouds

For me it was that what religion you are is determined by the accident of where you are born. They cant all be right, right?

So if what you believe is just an accident, then (to my childs mind), its just nonsense.

TheQuietFella

Why do atheists spend so much time talking about God?

Speedwell

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why do atheists spend so much time talking about God?

Because religious people spend so much time trying to force society to conform to their beliefs.

lazygal

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why do atheists spend so much time talking about God?

Which god?

magicbastarder

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why do atheists spend so much time talking about God?

because religion is a genuinely interesting topic?

i talk about movies with my friends, even though i know travis bickle did not exist.

MrPudding

lazygal wrote: »

Which god?

Rooky mistake, it is with a big g, so it is the christian god.

In terms of my reasons for atheism, there are so many to choose from… I think the main one for me is the total, utter and complete lack of evidence to suggest gods exist. Without tortured mental gymnastics it is not possible, in my view, to reconcile what we see around us on earth with the idea of gods, well, at least the idea of interventionist god.


Another of my favourite, though slightly more tongue in cheek, is the existence of the Roman Catholic Church. It is my solemn and genuine belief that the continued existence of this despicable organisation is evidence that god does not exist. What god would allow this shower of cnuts to continue to exist and sully its name?


MrP

Trent Houseboat

I've yet to be presented with a decent reason to believe in a god.

TheQuietFella wrote:

Why do atheists spend so much time talking about God?

Why do theists believe that constructive conversation is achieved by derailing threads?

TheQuietFella

Speedwell wrote: »

Because religious people spend so much time trying to force society to conform to their beliefs.

For an atheist you must be friendly with a lot of zealous religious people!

Maybe it's just me but I don't see anyone trying to force society to conform

to any religious belief unless of course you're talking about political doctrine

from parties such as Fine Gael, Fianna Fail or Labour!!

realdanbreen

Speedwell wrote: »

Because religious people spend so much time trying to force society to conform to their beliefs.

I'm a religious person and I don't try to force society to conform to anything. In fact I have no interest in trying to convince or convert anyone.

Speedwell

TheQuietFella wrote: »

For an atheist you must be friendly with a lot of zealous religious people!

I'm a Yank from Houston, a former member of the largest atheist group in the United States, and a past activist for secular causes. I now live in Ireland. Yes, it's fair to say that I'm friendly with, and unfriendly with, an extraordinary number of fanatics.

Maybe it's just me but I don't see anyone trying to force society to conform to any religious belief unless of course you're talking about political doctrine from parties such as Fine Gael, Fianna Fail or Labour!!

It's just you, and I'm talking about every time someone's religious beliefs lead them to make a choice about things that affect other people regardless of whether they share their beliefs. You could, if you had a strong stomach, refer to the various discussions about abortion and repealing the Eighth.

Speedwell

realdanbreen wrote: »

I'm a religious person and I don't try to force society to conform to anything. In fact I have no interest in trying to convince or convert anyone.

Thank you, single data point. Can you seriously claim that your worldview is independent of your religion, and that your religion doesn't affect the choices you make about what sort of things you think about how to run a society?

Cabaal

I've just never believed in a god, its that simple.
Even now my mother will comment at how even at a young age I didn't have an interest in the religious stories, I just didn't believe they actually happened as I saw them no different to the fairy tale books I had been reading.

realdanbreen wrote: »

I'm a religious person and I don't try to force society to conform to anything. In fact I have no interest in trying to convince or convert anyone.

You're an exception then, because the underlying message with the catholic church etc is to spread the word of its god and its religion. This includes trying to recruit new followers.

While you may not personally want your faith to force soceity to confirm it is beyond doubt that religious faiths very much do force their views on even those that don't believe in them,

The Irish states view on single mothers, gay people, marriage equality and now abortion are classic examples of this. In every instance the religious organisations have been opposed to change happening and have lobbied extremely hard to keep things in the old ways which confirm with their (religious) views.

TheQuietFella

Speedwell wrote: »

I'm a Yank.

That explains it!!! Ye've been brain washed for decades over there!


It's just you, and I'm talking about every time someone's religious beliefs lead them to make a choice about things that affect other people regardless of whether they share their beliefs.

Isn't that what they call democracy or are you advocating communism or am I mistaken again?

Speedwell

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Isn't that what they call democracy or are you advocating communism or am I mistaken again?

Have you even heard of human rights, dude? Hint: they aren't dependent on God to define or uphold them.

TheQuietFella

Cabaal wrote: »

I've just never believed in a god, its that simple.
Even now my mother will comment at how even at a young age I didn't have an interest in the religious stories, I just didn't believe they actually happened as I saw them no different to the fairy tale books I had been reading.




You're an exception then, because the underlying message with the catholic church etc is to spread the word of its god and its religion. This includes trying to recruit new followers.

While you may not personally want your faith to force soceity to confirm it is beyond doubt that religious faiths very much do force their views on even those that don't believe in them,

The Irish states view on single mothers, gay people, marriage equality and now abortion are classic examples of this. In every instance the religious organisations have been opposed to change happening and have lobbied extremely hard to keep things in the old ways which confirm with their (religious) views.

Which is their democratic right to do so!

Stealthfins

Speedwell wrote:

Because religious people spend so much time trying to force society to conform to their beliefs.

The strange thing is as an agnostic I haven't really come across people evangelizing much.

Or come across people trying to push their non beliefs much either.

Speedwell

Stealthfins wrote: »

The strange thing is as an agnostic I haven't really come across people evangelizing much.

Or come across people trying to push their non beliefs much either.

No, no, everyone seems to think I mean people walking up to you on the street and saying with a crocodile smile, "Are you washed in the Blood of the Lamb?"

I really mean people voting with their religion, shopping preferentially from their co-religionists, thinking that God wants them to have this opinion or look down on this or that group of people or use up natural resources because Jesus is coming soon and it won't matter, or thinking that the priest gets veto power over your life decisions, or letting Lord Shiva take care of the poor untouchables, or thinking Allah wants women to cover their faces, or thinking that G-d will curse them if their daughter marries a non-Jew, and that everyone else in society is wrong for not believing the same way they do, especially those godless rejects over there.

Tar.Aldarion

The same reason I don't believe in any silly thing people made up thousands of years ago.

Gods would just be powerful aliens anyway.

TheQuietFella

Speedwell wrote: »

Have you even heard of human rights, dude? Hint: they aren't dependent on God to define or uphold them.

You need therapy my good man!

Speedwell

TheQuietFella wrote: »

You need therapy my good man!

I had therapy. Also, not a man. You need to take your brain outside and give it some exercise.

robindch

Mod:

TheQuietFella wrote: »

You need therapy my good man!

Speedwell wrote: »

I had therapy. Also, not a man. You need to take your brain outside and give it some exercise.

Folks - some chill on both sides would be good.

@TheQuietFella - you might also like to experiment with contributing to the conversation instead of posting random one-liners of no particular merit or interest. The forum charter might help guide your thinking in some of this.

TheQuietFella

Speedwell wrote: »

I had therapy. Also, not a man. You need to take your brain outside and give it some exercise.

Ah, a woman atheist! So it's probably due to personal rejection that has you the

way you are and your reasons for leaving the U.S.

I'm curious as why you chose catholic Ireland as your home?

Mark Hamill

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why do atheists spend so much time talking about God?

Why do theists spend so little time talking about god (big or small "g")?

Mark Hamill

realdanbreen wrote: »

I'm a religious person and I don't try to force society to conform to anything. In fact I have no interest in trying to convince or convert anyone.

Hence atheists spend so little time talking about you

Speedwell

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Ah, a woman atheist! So it's probably due to personal rejection that has you the

way you are and your reasons for leaving the U.S.

I'm curious as why you chose catholic Ireland as your home?

Thanks, I'll leave the therapy to my life coach and you can go bother the fishes.

realdanbreen

Speedwell wrote: »

Thank you, single data point. Can you seriously claim that your worldview is independent of your religion, and that your religion doesn't affect the choices you make about what sort of things you think about how to run a society?

Single data point? IMO anyone that needs to type more than 4 or 5 lines to make a point is a waffler . As for me thinking about 'how to run a society', doesn't happen. I lead my own life as best I can and don't get distracted trying to solve the affairs of the world.

StupidLikeAFox

learn_more wrote: »

That is that virtually everything they do, the way they look , the way they act, the colour of the flower, the shape of their claws, their whole anatomy, etc etc..., is all designed for one thing, that that is to survive and procreate.

Particularly flowers/plants, they don't make themselves look nice for humans enjoyment, they are designed to make themselves alluring to birds so they spread their pollen.

I laughed at the irony of this sentence :pac:

robindch

Mod:

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Ah, a woman atheist! So it's probably due to personal rejection that has you the way you are and your reasons for leaving the U.S.

TheQuietFella, you've been carded for ignoring a direct mod instruction. If you persist in your contra-charter behaviour, you will be red-carded or banned.

Speedwell

realdanbreen wrote: »

Single data point? IMO anyone that needs to type more than 4 or 5 lines to make a point is a waffler . As for me thinking about 'how to run a society', doesn't happen. I lead my own life as best I can and don't get distracted trying to solve the affairs of the world.

Oh, I get it, you don't know what "single data point" means. Well, never mind then.

You don't think about how you want the world to be, and your religious worldview doesn't inform that? Pull the other one, friend. And you're a live-and-let-live, religiously neutral kind of guy getting into disagreements on a public forum dedicated to why people are atheists? I see, I see....

Gazzmonkey

@ OP

Simples... I don't buy what the bible is peddling.

Giants, unicorns, ghosts, demons, magic tricks, the list is endless really.

realdanbreen

Speedwell wrote: »

Oh, I get it, you don't know what "single data point" means. Well, never mind then.

You don't think about how you want the world to be, and your religious worldview doesn't inform that? Pull the other one, friend. And you're a live-and-let-live, religiously neutral kind of guy getting into disagreements on a public forum dedicated to why people are atheists? I see, I see....

Do you seriously think that I am trying to 'pull the other one' with you? I don't know you so therefore have no interest in you or any desire to impress you. My posts -unlike yours- are pretty straight and to the point so you can believe them if you wish.

Speedwell

realdanbreen wrote: »

Do you seriously think that I am trying to 'pull the other one' with you? I don't know you so therefore have no interest in you or any desire to impress you. My posts -unlike yours- are pretty straight and to the point so you can believe them if you wish.

That's why you spend so much time devoting yourself to responding to me and telling me what you think. Okay. Have a good time. I want to get back on topic now, please.

riffmongous

When I started studying the astrophysics I just didn't see a place for an almighty god in the universe, which was perhaps a hubris all of it's own when you think of how much we still don't know and fudge in the laws of the universe, but still, there is nothing to convince me to go back.

El_Duderino 09

Lack of evidence for gods means I can't believe in them.

Lack of decent argument for gods means I can't even entertain the idea in a serious way.

If there is good evidence or good arguments for gods, why don't theists use them?

sbsquarepants

Cabaal wrote: »

I've just never believed in a god, its that simple.
.

I'm much the same - I was always the type of kid who asked "why" and the answer "cos god made it that way" just didn't cut it for me.
I was forever in trouble in religion class for asking questions - I genuinely wanted to understand, I wasn't just being an arsehole. But a succession of nuns etc point blank refused to explain (I now know it was because they couldn't) and basically just tried to order me to believe which I just couldn't do.
Ironically my favourite teacher from school was an elderly nun - she was just a lovely woman who understood that some people just see the world differently to others.
The world would be a much better place if there were more like her.

realdanbreen

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lack of evidence for gods means I can't believe in them.

Lack of decent argument for gods means I can't even entertain the idea in a serious way.

If there is good evidence or good arguments for gods, why don't theists use them?

So you reckon the whole reason that we are in existance is just happenchance?

Iseedeadpixels

Because I refuse to believe a "God" would allow babies to be born with disabilities and deformaties, that this all powerful being would allow starvation and famine, war etc I could go on and on.

realdanbreen

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

Because I refuse to believe a "God" would allow babies to be born with disabilities and deformaties, that this all powerful being would allow starvation and famine, war etc I could go on and on.

Well just to take starvation, war and famine for starters. There is no reason for any of these to be happening other than the greed of human beings. It's actually sickening that me and you and everyone else in the free world go about our daily lives as normal while ordinary folk are being blown to smithereens as we speak in Alleppo.

Speedwell

realdanbreen wrote: »

So you reckon the whole reason that we are in existance is just happenchance?

"Happenstance". You say that like it's a problem.

A universe of randomness can in fact give rise to areas of local/temporary order... in fact it must, or it is not truly random. This mechanism is sufficient to explain the existence of the observable universe, including the existence of our very own Earth, according to what we know about the universe. Yours is not.

There is no reason for any of these to be happening other than the greed of human beings.

Well, that mind-boggling statement is at least consistent with a doctrine that claims that human sin is the cause of natural disasters and other ills in the world.

Iseedeadpixels

realdanbreen wrote: »

Well just to take starvation, war and famine for starters. There is no reason for any of these to be happening other than the greed of human beings. It's actually sickening that me and you and everyone else in the free world go about our daily lives as normal while ordinary folk are being blown to smithereens as we speak in Alleppo.

But a all loving god should stop our greed etc thats my point.

Speedwell

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

But a all loving god should stop our greed etc thats my point.

Yes, indeed, or, even more, an all-knowing God should not have created a world of this sort in the first place, given that God knew exactly what was going to happen. An all-loving God would choose not to do so, and an all-powerful God could choose not to do so.

El_Duderino 09

realdanbreen wrote:

So you reckon the whole reason that we are in existance is just happenchance?

Where fid you get that? I was answering the question 'why don't you believe in any of the gods'?

If you're asking what I think then I could speculate but the ultimate answer is that I don't know because there isn't really any evidence of 'why were here'.

Do you have evidence of why were here?

Iseedeadpixels

Speedwell wrote: »

Yes, indeed, or, even more, an all-knowing God should not have created a world of this sort in the first place, given that God knew exactly what was going to happen. An all-loving God would choose not to do so, and an all-powerful God could choose not to do so.

A dash of Humanity....a faithful animal....oh **** yeh cancer cant forget that and bake for 10,000 years.....:D

ScumLord

Being forced into mass as a child was the biggest influence, they just talked so much bollox.

But these days it's a simple logical decision. We now have a history of religion all the way back predating the current big three, all the way back to before civilization, all the way back to the hopes and desires of simple hunter gatherers who just wanted to have healthy children.

We can see religion develop and grow. We can see judaism develop, we can see it's influences, we can see it change into Christianity as a result of social conditions of the time. It was clearly made up by a group of people and there's no reason to believe these people who probably used psychedelic drugs as a way to see their god had any kind of insight beyond that of a primitive person of the time.

Their view of god isn't any more advanced than seeing their god as a really powerful king. God behaves like a king, the good and the bad. He's not above or beyond the most basic primal human emotions.

Continued logic also says that given what we know about the way the universe works it would be dumb for whatever created it to put so much effort into making something that works so well using natural processes from the big bang on and then start micromanaging it.

God: I've set up the rules of this universe so that gravity will force this one element to coalesce into stars which will go onto create heavier elements, which will in turn allow for complex organic compounds, which under the right conditions...... Wait.. Hold on a second.. Is that ape eating pork?! Son of a bitch just ruined the whole thing..

kal7

No credible evidence for a god, evolution and life are amazing but they don't need a sentient being to make them exist, so why dream one up.

Was exposed to multiple religions early in life, while travelling.
So maybe that is why I questioned a book, written by men, based on a dream they had, as being the only thing to base my life on.

Educated parents who though religious themselves allowed me to express my views helped me to be an open proud atheist.

When I say I'm atheist many people are surprised still, then wonder if I have any morals?? As if morals were invented by the authors of religious book only 2000 years ago. Now that is weird concept.

The Bishop Basher

Interesting topic...

OP - Maybe i'm not getting it but i don't see how relating us to animals disproves the existence of a god. I'm not disagreeing with you in that we are indeed driven by the same desire to survive and procreate. I just don't get the link between that and atheism.

Cabaal wrote: »

You're an exception then, because the underlying message with the catholic church etc is to spread the word of its god and its religion. This includes trying to recruit new followers.

Do they though ? it's regularly mentioned on here how people who identify as RC don't attend mass let alone practice their faith so if they don't attend mass or practice why would they try and convert others to a faith they themselves don't partake in ?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, i just don't think it happens anything like as often as some people like to state. Jehovah's witnesses are an obvious exception but to be fair they're open about it and they always walk away as soon as i tell them i'm not interested. They certainly don't try and force their views on me. In 43 years, I can't recall a single instance where anyone of faith has tried to convert me or anyone close to me by forcing their views. Maybe i'm just lucky or maybe this argument is a bit of an urban myth. Personally I would go with the latter...

It's interesting to note how many responses automatically link religion with theism. It's totally understandable i suppose given the manner in which many of us were raised but for me, religion has nothing to do with a belief in god. In fact my complete disillusionment with religion was the reason i considered myself as atheist for a number of years. Religion is man made. It's utterly flawed. As already mentioned, the fact that somebody's religion is a mere accident of birth is evidence enough of that.

realdanbreen

Speedwell wrote: »

"Happenstance". You say that like it's a problem.

A universe of randomness can in fact give rise to areas of local/temporary order... in fact it must, or it is not truly random. This mechanism is sufficient to explain the existence of the observable universe, including the existence of our very own Earth, according to what we know about the universe. Yours is not.

Did you really manage to keep a straight face when typing such vague nonsense?



Well, that mind-boggling statement is at least consistent with a doctrine that claims that human sin is the cause of natural disasters and other ills in the world.

The statement was never intended to be mind boggling, although I can't allow for minds that are easily boggled.

Walter H Price

I didn't really have a big urika moment , faith and religion just played no real part in my life as a kid other then in school , i always found it hard to relate to the stories etc but given there about a 30 something yer old man living in the middle east 2000 years ago i suppose it would be hard for 90's kid in Dublin to relate to any of it.

a bit like you OP i'm big into animals and could always see the similarities more then the difference's between people and animals , and i always wondered if God made us in his image why wait till nearly last , like surly you start with the supreme animal the star of the show then all the weird and wonderful stuff but no literally nearly every species and subspecies on the planet today is older then man , not to mention the auld dinosaurs. So i never bought the stories.

what turned me really against religion i suppose was hours of arguments with an overly zelous religion teacher in secondry , the constant stream of stomach churing child abuse perpatrated by RCC that came to light all throughout my formative years , and the rise of Islamic extremism thees things turned my to believing that religion was not just harmless fairytales for adults to make death seem less scary , but a genunie poision and evil in the world.