PV panels?

Roadtoad

Are there any small scale PV projects showing their yield on-line, in real time, perhaps with historical data? (ideally Kildare)

I'm interested in a 3kW installation and the agent showed me a 'typical' installation yield, but seeing is believing.
I'll be exploring a wind turbine too, something that I can stick on a 10m pole in a fairly open flat site. You guys might even turn me into a nurd yet!

unkel

Rule of thumb is up to about 1000kWh per kwp if south facing, so up to 3000 kWh per year for your 3kW install at most

Water John

That is about €450 I presume. Hell of a lot better than solar panels. What cost approx, 4/5K?

naughto

Have started building new house only at blocks at the minute
Looking for info on any that has them on a new build

unkel

naughto wrote: »

Have started building new house only at blocks at the minute
Looking for info on any that has them on a new build

You should look into Tesla roofs. I've no idea of pricing, but it's worth investigating.

Water John wrote: »

That is about €450 I presume. Hell of a lot better than solar panels. What cost approx, 4/5K?

3000kWh is worth €400 at most for someone that can use all of it for stuff they can't run at night (if you have a huge base load, like someone into cryptomining). In all other cases it's worth far less. If you use a fifth of it and use the rest for heating water, then it's only worth about €100

Shefwedfan

naughto wrote: »

Have started building new house only at blocks at the minute
Looking for info on any that has them on a new build

Do you mean you want info on Solar PV on a new build?

First port of call should be your architect

Second your electrician

New build is easier as you just wire it into the system,......

Shefwedfan

Seen this company on facebook.....this is what happens when the kids are up at 4 in morning and you are bored :-)

https://www.eliteenergies.ie/

From what I can see it creates electricity and also heats the house.....very interesting if it works....

Someone more technical does it sound reasonable or is it BS?

naughto

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Do you mean you want info on Solar PV on a new build?

First port of call should be your architect

Second your electrician

New build is easier as you just wire it into the system,......

Ya new build has any one on this thread but them in or did they go with the tubes that just heat water

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Seen this company on facebook.....this is what happens when the kids are up at 4 in morning and you are bored :-)

https://www.eliteenergies.ie/

From what I can see it creates electricity and also heats the house.....very interesting if it works....

Someone more technical does it sound reasonable or is it BS?

BS

You can't heat your Irish home in winter with PV or tubes

Neither DHW nor space heating

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

BS

You can't heat your Irish home in winter with PV or tubes

Neither DHW nor space heating

I wouldn't expect it to heat the house.

I am looking at the R-VOLT system
https://www.eliteenergies.ie/electric-solar-panels-in-ireland

I would guess this would just blow some warm air into house but you would need your current system(oil etc) in place to actually heat the house.

SemperFidelis

Is there any chance they will relax the planning requirements so you can install more than 12m2 array (about 7 panels) without having to apply for planning permission. I see this as a big stumbling block, extra hassel and expense.

Shefwedfan

SemperFidelis wrote: »

Is there any chance they will relax the planning requirements so you can install more than 12m2 array (about 7 panels) without having to apply for planning permission. I see this as a big stumbling block, extra hassel and expense.

No....

It's a money generator for the local Council......

Ewan Hoosarmi

unkel wrote: »

BS

You can't heat your Irish home in winter with PV or tubes

Neither DHW nor space heating

Hmmm. don't know about that. I have a DHW system that gives 270L of hot water running on 700w of leccy when it's heating. It's a heat pump and I run it on night rate electricity and there's plenty of hot water during the day for showers, baths, etc.

Surely that could be run from solar?

KCross

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Hmmm. don't know about that. I have a DHW system that gives 270L of hot water running on 700w of leccy when it's heating. It's a heat pump and I run it on night rate electricity and there's plenty of hot water during the day for showers, baths, etc.

Surely that could be run from solar?

What make/model of heat pump do you have that only needs 700W to run?

Water John

Yes, but your saving is only the night rate. For a new install I suppose it would be replacing day time electricity.

Ewan Hoosarmi

KCross wrote: »

What make/model of heat pump do you have that only needs 700W to run?

Ermmm.. dunno. Big, white, square?

It's only for the DHW, not the space heating.

KCross

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Ermmm.. dunno. Big, white, square?

It's only for the DHW, not the space heating.

I'd be very skeptical you have a heat pump that only requires 700W to run(DHW or heating, its all the one.... they both work off the same compressor) unless its tiny and you've said its a big, white square so I'm guessing not!

unkel

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Hmmm. don't know about that. I have a DHW system that gives 270L of hot water running on 700w of leccy when it's heating. It's a heat pump and I run it on night rate electricity and there's plenty of hot water during the day for showers, baths, etc.

Surely that could be run from solar?

I have a DHW system that gives 360l of hot water running from a 40 tube solar system

It provides almost 100% of my DHW from late March to November and can still provide 100% of my hot water on a sunny but freezing cold winters day. It needs regular supporting in the coldest winter months though. You can't heat your house / water in Ireland on solar alone.

lordgoat

Hey guys, been following this thread along for a while...

Moved into a house late last year, bungalow, low pitch roof, south facing but roof is E/W.

Just wondering what type of systems would be out there that would suit for a retro fit.

House is in Kildare.

Thanks

Ewan Hoosarmi

KCross wrote: »

I'd be very skeptical you have a heat pump that only requires 700W to run(DHW or heating, its all the one.... they both work off the same compressor) unless its tiny and you've said its a big, white square so I'm guessing not!

OK, I lied. It's not 700w.... it's 600w. According to the manual that is. It says in the Technical specifications: Heat Pump Input 600 Watt.

I'm just going by the spec sheet.

KCross

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

OK, I lied. It's not 700w.... it's 600w. According to the manual that is. It says in the Technical specifications: Heat Pump Input 600 Watt.

I'm just going by the spec sheet.

Make/Model?

Ewan Hoosarmi

KCross wrote: »

Make/Model?

Jayziz, it's like an interrogation.

http://vesttherm.dk/en/service/vt-31303132-eco-270-l

That one but in a different enclosure.

KCross

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Jayziz, it's like an interrogation.

http://vesttherm.dk/en/service/vt-31303132-eco-270-l

That one but in a different enclosure.

Ah, its a small heat pump that only heats water. I haven't seen those before. Usually heat pumps in domestic applications refer to space and hot water heating and those ones would use 2-4kW when running.

Heat pumps are finding their way into more and more appliances now with clothes dryers also having them.


I'll release you on bail now!

Ewan Hoosarmi

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

Ermmm.. dunno. Big, white, square?

It's only for the DHW, not the space heating.

That's what I said above.

unkel

Does it not state from those specs that it's 2.6kW? As in 600W + 2000W supplementary heating = 2600W total power input?

Ewan Hoosarmi

unkel wrote: »

Does it not state from those specs that it's 2.6kW? As in 600W + 2000W supplementary heating = 2600W total power input?

The supplementary heating isn't used under normal circumstances. It's a kind of a back-up. The tank also has inputs for solar tubes and back boiler. I only use the heat pump.

Shefwedfan

The variation on prices in the market is horrendous...

Just got a quote for 3kW system of €7775, that included divertor to hot water
Last week got price of €4162 ex VAT
Last year price was €5970

Its a minefield out their....also all the provider are listed on website as the number 1 solar installer in ireland :-)

Water John

It says HP output 1700 from 600 input.

unkel

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

The supplementary heating isn't used under normal circumstances. It's a kind of a back-up.

All my water is heated by my solar. And if it's not, I have a gas boiler as backup

Effects

Roadtoad wrote: »

Are there any small scale PV projects showing their yield on-line, in real time, perhaps with historical data? (ideally Kildare)

Sign up here: https://www.ginlongmonitoring.com/

That's where I view my generation online and can search for others who don't have it set to private. Even came across one in Ringsend of a house I'd visited at Open House. Figures seemed low for them but I'm not sure why.

Shefwedfan

https://shop.electricireland.ie/products/install-detail/solar-pv

I am just wondering why this seems so expensive? is it just because everyone is taking a cut?

They have 300 watt panels while most people seem to have 275watt

JHet

When PV reaches sub 4 yr payback I'll be all over it.

Very interested in Solar and the renewable space in general, but with a family, I can't afford to embark on environmental philanthropic missions! Ultimately, it has to make sense financially.

unkel

JHet wrote: »

When PV reaches sub 4 yr payback I'll be all over it.

Unless you buy very cheap (second hand) parts and do the install yourself, and use all the produced units at the real day time rate (not competing with gas or with night time rate), that won't happen in your lifetime without FIT / subsidies

quentingargan

JHet wrote: »

When PV reaches sub 4 yr payback I'll be all over it.

Very interested in Solar and the renewable space in general, but with a family, I can't afford to embark on environmental philanthropic missions! Ultimately, it has to make sense financially.

Depending on how you heat your water, and how much your house is occupied and using electricity during the day, you can achieve payback in the region of 10 years. Heating water in the summer with an oil boiler in a shed is less efficient. Night rate electricity is about 9c, but gas is a lot cheaper.

4 years payback would be a return on investment of 25%. I would think anything giving 10% back is good, but not if cash is tight. Many snake-oil sales staff promise ridiculous payback times and this creates unrealistic expectations. There are very few modifications you can make to your house that offer 4 years, with the possible exception of lagging the attic on a house that has no lagging at all..

JHet

unkel wrote: »

Unless you buy very cheap (second hand) parts and do the install yourself, and use all the produced units at the real day time rate (not competing with gas or with night time rate), that won't happen in your lifetime without FIT / subsidies

Agree, ain't happening without REFIT and subs.

Water John

A 25% ROI is unrealistic on any tech. Anything around 10% is good, as said above. If it moves nearer to 14/15%, that return finances the borrowing of the capital and the interest repayment.

JHet

quentingargan wrote: »

Depending on how you heat your water, and how much your house is occupied and using electricity during the day, you can achieve payback in the region of 10 years. Heating water in the summer with an oil boiler in a shed is less efficient. Night rate electricity is about 9c, but gas is a lot cheaper.

4 years payback would be a return on investment of 25%. I would think anything giving 10% back is good, but not if cash is tight. Many snake-oil sales staff promise ridiculous payback times and this creates unrealistic expectations. There are very few modifications you can make to your house that offer 4 years, with the possible exception of lagging the attic on a house that has no lagging at all..

Technically 0% ROI until the 5th year, and only achievable with heavy subs + refit.

The MREF have acknowledged that payback periods need to come down, in order to encourage much wider participation in the renewables space in general. I don't think 4 years is unreasonable in this context. The reality is when people hear 10 year payback, they're turned off, and rightly so, a lot can happen in 10 years, heck it's hard to predict the next 2! Technology is advancing at such a rapid rate, the gear you bought 10 years ago could be stone age by then, and at minimum the cost will have come down exponentially if the current trend is anything to go by.

robp

Water John wrote: »

A 25% ROI is unrealistic on any tech. Anything around 10% is good, as said above. If it moves nearer to 14/15%, that return finances the borrowing of the capital and the interest repayment.

When one takes into account taxation, I think one is looking at a 4% payback for an investment in the stock market and that isn't guaranteed. I think it is not even possible to get a 3% guaranteed investment in Ireland

raspberrypi67

I researched the solar panels at some stage some 5 years ago and decided 5k was going to be too much, well my wife decided too much for the payback time it would take....kind of agreed at the time.
I've a family of 5 adults at this stage so would like to have more warm water for showers, my back roof ideally located at south-south-west.
I could install this myself if I had the house to myself but alas...the boss wouldn't trust me!! lol
Anyway,
what is the cost these days of the solar thermal tubing...? given that I put up 2 panels, not sure what the sq m would be but for a family of 5....

JHet wrote: »

When PV reaches sub 4 yr payback I'll be all over it.

Very interested in Solar and the renewable space in general, but with a family, I can't afford to embark on environmental philanthropic missions! Ultimately, it has to make sense financially.

unkel

For 5 adults using lots of hot water, a solar thermal install makes (financial) sense, with a payback of about 10 years. But are you sure all those adults will be living in your house for all that time? If it will be just yourself and your other half in the house 5 years from now, payback will be a lot, lot longer.

You're looking at a 30-40 tube 300-400l system for which you'll get a €1200 subsidy the last time I looked (it will also bump your property a level on the building energy rating scale)

raspberrypi67

Figured as much, thanks for that.

As for the kids/adults living in the house in the next 10 years, well, even with half decent jobs I cant imagine the property scenario will be much different, if anything, houses will be much more expensive and prohibitively expensive into the bargin....

Would a top floor take the weight of a 400l tank...?

unkel wrote: »

For 5 adults using lots of hot water, a solar thermal install makes (financial) sense, with a payback of about 10 years. But are you sure all those adults will be living in your house for all that time? If it will be just yourself and your other half in the house 5 years from now, payback will be a lot, lot longer.

You're looking at a 30-40 tube 300-400l system for which you'll get a €1200 subsidy the last time I looked (it will also bump your property a level on the building energy rating scale)

Water John

400l is 400kg. That's not a lot of weight. 6/7 adults. 4 of me!!!

JHet

Maybe we could do a boards group buy through the likes of segen.co.uk

rolion

JHet wrote: »

Maybe we could do a boards group buy through the likes of segen.co.uk

LOVE this one here ...but somewhere on an open field...

raspberrypi67

Pardon my ignorance here, its the PV section I know little about in terms of the parts used and how they are configured. I do know what they do but my question is if an inverter is used with banks of batteries, I assume yes!? Are plug sockets in new builds wired in such a way to make use of
a fully charged bank of cells or what way does it work?
Cheers...

quentingargan

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance here, its the PV section I know little about in terms of the parts used and how they are configured. I do know what they do but my question is if an inverter is used with banks of batteries, I assume yes!? Are plug sockets in new builds wired in such a way to make use of
a fully charged bank of cells or what way does it work?
Cheers...

Inverters convert DC to AC and you are confusing two types. Yes, battery inverters do this in some cases, but usually for PV systems the inverter converts DC from the panels and pushes it into the grid. You then use it to power appliances, or if you don't use that power it gets exported to the grid.

To confuse matters, there are now some hybrid inverters that work with both PV and batteries and use the batteries as an energy storage system. This is a new innovation not commonly seen, but the same inverter sends power to the loads, or to batteries, then at night takes from batteries rather than PV to suppply loads. Er. That made matters worse??

Shefwedfan

Ok I am back onto this....my electric bill came in and it is going up & up & up....even the Misses says we should look at something

So I was talking to company this morning. They are going to review bills but I expect the 3kW to 5kW which they all come back with.

What they mentioned was about a battery. So during the summer months the PV would power the house during the day and a 5kW battery to power the house at night.....

Then in winter the battery would be charged at nighttime on night rate and then during the day the house would run off the battery, it sounds excellent to me but 5kW doesn't seem like a whole pile to me..

I am discounting the electric car at the moment because majority of the time it will only be able to charge on nighttime anwyay

unkel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

during the summer months the PV would power the house during the day and a 5kW battery to power the house at night.....

Then in winter the battery would be charged at nighttime on night rate and then during the day the house would run off the battery, it sounds excellent to me

Yes it sounds excellent, in a few years time when batteries have come down in value.

If you want to do it for the environment and you have plenty of money, buy all means go ahead and do it. But your pocket will hurt. It's more expensive per kWh to use a battery than buying the electricity from the grid at full day rates. Even if you got the electricity to power your battery for free. Seriously.

You've a fairly big detached house, right? You'll need a lot more capacity than 5kWh. Probably more like 15kWh. And that's without heating your house or your water from it.

H.E. Pennypacker

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok I am back onto this....my electric bill came in and it is going up & up & up....even the Misses says we should look at something

Any idea what the big consumers are - is it heating, water or general household appliances?


For reference, I was quoted 5k for 3kw pv panels and and extra 3k for 5kw battery storage. Was your quote similar?

Shefwedfan

H.E. Pennypacker wrote: »

Any idea what the big consumers are - is it heating, water or general household appliances?


For reference, I was quoted 5k for 3kw pv panels and and extra 3k for 5kw battery storage. Was your quote similar?

I would be expecting similar pricing....

Really I have no idea, probably a mixture of general household items.....electric showers etc.....