Proposal for landlord tax break in budget

Theduke1960

I just found this thread. Am I right in saying it was started in 2016.

So 7 years later we are still talking about it?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375624#Comment_120375624

Still talking indeed!

Tax breaks in exchange for long leases is what I heard too. I’d settle for equal liability on both sides.

Quick removal of unruly tenants and quick intervention for unruly landlords.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/101190449#Comment_101190449

This is the main reason I've just sold up.

I've had good tenants for the 20+ years I was renting, whether that's good luck or good judgement when letting I can't say. But the fear of the consequences if just one set of tenants went rogue on me was growing steadily over the last few years.

Plus, because I hadn't raised rent for a good tenant over the approx 5 years they were there, I got badly stung when the RPZ limits were introduced. I still had some mortgage left, so the interest rate rises were wildly outstripping any increases I could make to the rent (the last tenants stayed on the same rent the whole time, again because they were excellent tenants). So while I just about broke even over the last few years, that was starting to go up in smoke as well.

When the latest tenants left, the place got sold, sharpish.

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/101181465#Comment_101181465

Just as most workers when pricing a job will double the rate to cover VAT and taxes landlords are now increasing rents to cover their costs and avoid increasing debt on their often now regretted investments.

Getting harder to do this with RPZs spreading wider, and the allowable rise in rent getting smaller, and tax breaks for renters forcing landlords to register and operate above board (no bad thing).

While most jobs of work are now done by people on a DIY basis or on a casual black market economy basis in order to avoid taxes you will find that accommodation will increasingly be provided "by the back door" with little or no structure, protection or standards for either party.

Again, more and more landlords getting pushed into "the system", which in itself is a good thing - but the risk/reward balance is so uneven that it's making it unattractive or uneconomic to continue renting.

Theduke1960

Thanks for all that. I have one property with a good tenant. Im going to sell when she goes

Theduke1960

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375642#Comment_120375642

I emailed the RTB on Jan 31. I got an email reply yesterday.

I'm lucky to have a decent tenant but I'd be wary of SF.

Bottom line is the government response for both tenants and landlords is a joke.

I'm inclined to sell before SF take control.

They are going to find that we don't have enough builders. Landlords will pay for their hubris

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375812#Comment_120375812

I know. I have decent tenants and not one bit of hassle. Feck, I’d go as far as saying I get worried as I don’t here from them in months!

As much as I support SF (amongst others) yes I’d be worried what they would do to the market and general taxation in general!

dumb_parade

Closed the sale of a rental property this week too. I never had an issue with my tenants either, but when they moved out last summer, I decided I had enough of it. Negative cash flow and increased regulation and risk. The one query I had with the RTB about rent pressure zone exemptions is still unanswered, they seem to think they have no responsibility to landlords. If there had been reasonable tax treatment and a more balanced set of rights and responsibilities for both landlords and tenants, I might have not have sold.

Theduke1960

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375838#Comment_120375838

I support the way SF goes after vested interests like the insurance industry.

But they think we can have better services by simply squeezing those on high incomes?

We have a massive national debt which is like a cancer nobody mentions. I don't use the word lightly

I wish them luck but anybody who is on 50 % tax would be naive to vote for them

They are pitching to those who pay **** all tax and expect you to support them or simply those who think we have a magic money tree

Furze99

No problem here with small landlords getting lower tax rates.............. once the same measure is applied to ALL sole traders etc. As that's how small landlords are assessed, they are sole traders.

herbalplants

SF won't get elected. And yes they will do more damage to the rental market, if let in.

DownByTheGarden

I think they proposed breaks to come in the budget every year to keep landlords hanging in there and then pull the rug from under them in the budget.

Surely no one is going to fall for it again :)

Like Leo looking after those who get up in the morning or noone on under 50k should be on the high tax rate.

I dont klnow how many other things that lad has promised but i wouldnt believe a work from him especially or any of the rest of them at this point.

My best advise for landlords. Get out now while you can. Anyone saying they will give you something for staying in 6 months time ... wee just look how their promises have gone so far. In 6 months time you will be trapped and wont be able to get out. Thats the only plan here.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120375839#Comment_120375839

Same story here. Finally gave up and sale agreed at the moment. Hopefully all done and dusted in a few more weeks.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/101181759#Comment_101181759

What happens is well known and only takes a little thought. Occupancy of rental properties is higher than privately lived properties. Owner buy for what they may want where as tenants rent what they need. So a 3 bed house near me had 4 adults renting it. The landlord sold it and a couple with no kids bought it. If the tenants were lucky enough to get where the couple rented you still have 2 people with no where to rent and one less rental.

In reality the tenants may not be able to afford to rent the place the people that can afford to buy were probably renting a more expensive place or they were living with parents.

The other thing about selling is the property is normally empty for a bit. So even just that means less rental on the market for a period when we don't have enough rentals. Less rentals more people looking to rent.

They don't need to burn down anything for it not to be on the market. All of this while the population is growing.

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120376025#Comment_120376025

Landlords are taxed on case 5 not as sole traders. Big diifference.

DownByTheGarden

Dont believe a word about tax breaks coming in the next budget. They said that the last time too.

The only way that isnt some stalling tactic again to keep landlords in on the hook until the next budget again would be if they stated what these tax breaks will be now. but they havent have they. More smoke.mirrors and lies.

Grumpypants

Massively disappointed to hear the tax break is in the next budget. Not sure how that helps to stem the flow of landlords now. Especially since they gave no indication what that break is.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384601#Comment_120384601

There is definitly no tax break. If there was they would have given details of what it is going to be. its a stalling tactic. The best it will be is some tax break that it costs you even more to avail of.

MacDanger

A tax break would do damn all to resolve the problem so it's a moot point anyway

HeidiHeidi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384621#Comment_120384621

Agreed.

I was far more afraid of the implications of a tenant wrecking the property, or failing to pay rent, than a shortfall in income in the short/ medium term.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120384621#Comment_120384621

It would make it an income stream. Only way to realise your investment now is to sell and release the capital.

If the property was making you 5k a year instead of costing you 5k a year then you would be less inclined to sell.

HeidiHeidi

There is no tax break in the world (or in our government's imagination) that will turn a 5k deficit into a 5K profit!

ec_pc

In a similar dilemma and not sure which way to go. Perfect tenants are leaving after 10 years, honestly if I heard from them once a year that would be it. House value is good at the moment but the rent I get is about 50% below market rate. I am thinking of going down the completely undefined PRTB "substantial improvement" road so I can get more rent to make it worth my while as a long term investment. I am still willing to charge below market rate for the right tenant but obviously concerned about some of the crazy proposals being touted.

Waiting for tenant to move out and then I'll price the "substantial improvements" and decide. At the moment am leaning towards selling up, quick sale take the money and run.

Cuddlesworth

Substantial improvements were defined and for most older properties its pretty much a rebuild required, which you will loose money on.

The government has been outright hostile to landlords for 15 years now and by all accounts they will continue to be.

The RPZ's will not be lifted, the can has been kicked down the road for so long its pretty much a huge boulder at the top of a very large hill.

The RTB could start most adjudication's by spitting in the landlords face and it would be a improvement.

The eviction process from start to end is so mind-blowingly onerous that once experienced, everything is sold as soon as possible.

HAP and social housing in general is such a sh*tshow, there is nothing good about it and has directly lead to the most exits from the private market that I am first hand aware of.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385126#Comment_120385126

Anyone who invested knew what the tax situation was before investing and it hasn't changed since.

Ease of ability to evict delinquent tenants is what needs to change imo, that's what's ruining things for everyone

whatnext

Nothing anyone does will convince me not to exit the market. The horse has bolted. The threat of the shinners getting into power with all their anti landlord rhetoric is too great.

Its now a case of having to start from scratch and encourage new entrants which will drive rents even higher.

On a side note the blatant continual misrepresentation of statistics without explanation of the data is beyond sickening. It’s a kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. Eg. The average rent figures. These are not the average rental figures , they are the average for new private tenancies. It’s all BS playing to a gallery of what are by in large muppets who never look beyond the noise in their own echo chamber.

Grumpypants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385564#Comment_120385564

It has changed considerably. You pay more tax now (USC is a new tax for example), you can offset it against less item, and you have less rights (can't increase rent do to rpz) and it takes ages to evict.

There hasn't been a single landlord friendly piece of legislation brought in to offset the endless amount of anti landlord legislation.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120386289#Comment_120386289

The tax has not increased considerably, tax bands have gone UP. Credits have gone UP. I agree though the autonomy over their property has gone to shite for LLs and that needs to be changed back. But Jesus Christ they do not need to be given more money.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/101181431#Comment_101181431

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/101181930#Comment_101181930

The problem is that the homeless figures are not accurate, they dont take into account people who need a home, just people registered as homeless.

So somebody couchsurfing / living at home / with friends etc is not considered homeless.

When a rental house is taken back from a tenant and sold its either sold to someone who will occupy it (generally first time buyer) or someone as an investment who will rent it.

In the first case the homeless figure goes up because first time buyers are typically not registered homeless and the old tenant is now homeless and goes onto the register.

In the second instance a new tenant comes in and they may or may not be someone on the homeless list because they may or may not he registered as homeless even though they were.

The problem with a rental property being sold then is that supply decreases while demand remains high, and its simple economics then, high demand low supply equals higher prices.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385126#Comment_120385126

I was making a profit on mine. Its the specter of not being able to get out when you want to and also the risk that someone effectively can take your property for years from you if they choose to. No imaginary tax break is going to fix that. This no fault thing is a smoke screen too. Even if a tenant is not paying the rent you still cant get them out. You can serve them notice, but you cant get them out. Total shambles of a situation. And after the current eviction ban anybody who waits around for another even worse one is the bigger fool. Better out than in.