Why I am anti abortion and opposed to repealing the 8th.

brickmauser

The Specialist wrote: »

I've read some misinformed overwrought bull**** on this site over the years but this might just top them all.

You have no argument that can counter the facts so you resort to insults.

Pro Hoc Vice

brickmauser wrote: »

This is not about belief this is about fact.
The fact is a fertilized egg is human and that fact is that killing it is murder.
Killing the unborn human at any point between fertilization of the egg and birth is therefore murder.
That is a fact that is not open to any dispute whatsoever.
The facts are undeniable.

Yes it is undeniable, I am doing just that as I am saying the opposite to you I am denying your CLAIMED truth. If you want to post scientific studies to back up your claim work away, until then in scientific terms you have put forward a idea, it's not even a theory yet.

BaaLamb

Surely the OP is simply trolling? I mean they can't be for real can they?

Pro Hoc Vice

brickmauser wrote: »

You have no argument that can counter the facts so you resort to insults.

The only person lacking in facts is you.

I can claim the earth is flat, unless I put forward some evidence I am nothing more than a crank.

The Specialist

brickmauser wrote: »

You have no argument that can counter the facts so you resort to insults.

I can't be bothered arguing with a dullard. Tell me OP, what's your opinion on the act of masturbation or ejaculation? Do you get PTSD watching porn videos?

Moo Moo Land

brickmauser wrote: »

You have no argument that can counter the facts so you resort to insults.

Before you take a stand, you should first research the topic.

brickmauser

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Yes it is undeniable, I am doing just that as I am saying the opposite to you I am denying your CLAIMED truth. If you want to post scientific studies to back up your claim work away, until then in scientific terms you have put forward a idea, it's not even a theory yet.

If you are disputing basic biology - that a fertilized human egg is an individual organism - then you are disputing biological facts.

Once you accept a fertilized egg is human you must accept it is a person and therefore you must accept killing it intentionally is murder.

Therefore you must oppose abortion at any time between conception and birth and you must oppose the repeal of the 8th amendment.

You cannot argue otherwise and claim to be moral.

Abortion is clearly murder.

You cannot defeat this logic.

It is inarguably true.

Riesen_Meal

brickmauser wrote: »

You have no argument that can counter the facts so you resort to insults.

Tick tock, tick tock -

Not long to go now until the women in our country have equal rights to women in other countries....

About time since it's 2016 do you not think?

brickmauser

Moo Moo Land wrote: »

Before you take a stand, you should first research the topic.

The fertilization of an egg creates a living human being.

You can't argue otherwise.

Lollipops23

I really, really wanted this to be a post from an intelligent, well thought-out and balanced anti-choicer. I know they're out there, they have to be. I'm fed up debating this with the ones who don't understand or appreciate the nuance.

Please tell me where I can find the smart people who just happen to oppose abortion.

Lollipops23

Also, eggs often get fertilised (ie. egg meets sperm) without implanting. Are we calling that a miscarriage?

Riesen_Meal

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Please tell me where I can find the smart people who just happen to oppose abortion.

I think you answered your own question there....

brickmauser

lawred2 wrote: »

This will go down well.



This line is moral bankruptcy in a nutshell

You are morally bankrupt.

Science proves the unborn from conception to birth is a human being.

Killing the unborn therefore is murder.

VinLieger

brickmauser wrote: »

If you are disputing basic biology - that a fertilized human egg is an individual organism - then you are disputing biological facts.

Once you accept a fertilized egg is human you must accept it is a person and therefore you must accept killing it intentionally is murder.

Therefore you must oppose abortion at any time between conception and birth and you must oppose the repeal of the 8th amendment.

You cannot argue otherwise and claim to be moral.

Abortion is clearly murder.

You cannot defeat this logic.

It is inarguably true.

This level of logic leaping is not even child like, its equivalent to an infant ironically, I would expect better from a 5 year old, at least they have the ability to listen and take on new information

Op is either a troll or really is that ignorant and lacking in basic critical thinking and logical ability, either way nobody should engage anymore tbh

talking_walnut

Delirium wrote: »

No it's not. Murder is specific legal conviction, a person can also be charged with manslaughter.

If a woman takes the abortion pill here in Ireland, he won't be charged with murder she will be charged with having an illegal termination (not sure of the exact term).

brickmauser wrote: »

This is not about belief this is about fact.
The fact is a fertilized egg is human and that fact is that killing it is murder.
Killing the unborn human at any point between fertilization of the egg and birth is therefore murder.
That is a fact that is not open to any dispute whatsoever.
The facts are undeniable.

As Delirium said, there's a very specific definition of murder. Plenty of ways for a person to die by another persons hand and it not being murder. That's a fact. You don't get to decide what is and isn't murder. You might think it's equivalent but that doesn't change the fact that it's still not actually murder.

Plenty eggs get fertilized but never progress beyond that point. That's a fact. The majority of doctors and scientists (the people who study this kind of thing) disagree that a human being is created at conception. That's another fact.


Fact fact fact fact. Did you know that the more you use the word "fact" in a sentence, the more trueier the sentance is? Well it's a fact.
Fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact

brickmauser

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Also, eggs often get fertilised (ie. egg meets sperm) without implanting. Are we calling that a miscarriage?

A miscarriage is the death of a human being.

dav3

Was this thread set up so the OP could have an incoherent rant rather than trying to make their point on the existing thread?

Good job OP, you can now cry about people trying to shut down debate...even though there's a debate currently happening.

If nobody is taking your points seriously in that thread, they're certainly not taking them serious in this thread, try harder.

Delirium

brickmauser wrote: »

The fertilization of an egg creates a living human being.

You can't argue otherwise.

Actually, science says you can. Anembryonic gestation.

weldoninhio

brickmauser wrote: »

The fertilization of an egg creates a living human being.

You can't argue otherwise.

So if a woman becomes pregnant, her egg has been fertilised, and a doctor removed this human being from her womb at say 8 weeks, but didn't survive. Then the human being would have died of natural causes, no?

Riesen_Meal

brickmauser wrote: »

You are morally bankrupt.

Science proves the unborn from conception to birth is a human being.

Killing the unborn therefore is murder.

It's 2016, not 1516, you know you are fighting a losing battle - and you continue to cling on to an ideal that the catholic church taught you...

That's fair enough, your beliefs are your own business, but when you come on here on a discussion forum where 97% of the posters do not share your ideals, where do you go from here?

I'm a bit torn on this one. While I am in favour of the womans right to choose, I also believe that from conception, there is a person growing inside the mother.
How I reached this conclusion is that as a mother, who lost 3 babies, each time to me it was a living breathing person, who I was anxious to meet and rear.
This probably makes no sense to anyone who has never miscarried a much wanted child, but might give an insight into how difficult some of us find the question.

Lollipops23

brickmauser wrote: »

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Also, eggs often get fertilised (ie. egg meets sperm) without implanting. Are we calling that a miscarriage?

A miscarriage is the death of a human being.

But if the egg simply does not implant? And I always ask, why is that, should I suffer a miscarriage at say 7 or 8 weeks, the state does not recognise that a human has died and issue a death cert? Why is that?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

brickmauser wrote: »

Science.

A human being is created at conception by a sperm and egg.
It's human and alive and therefore it is a person.
If you deny that basic fact you are denying science the only basis on which we should make our decisions.

If you kill it you are killing a human being and committing murder.
If at any point from conception to birth you kill the zygote, embryo or fetus you are killing a human being.
There are often failed abortions where the fetus has lived and is now a grown adult often with disabilities as a direct result of the attempt to murder it.
So I do not agree with the right to choose.
When a woman is pregnant she is carrying a human being in her womb.
Whether she wants to or not she must carry the baby until full term.

If she is in danger of death I'm sorry but that is too bad. Killing the child is murder.

If a woman or girl conceives through rape or incest it is morally indefensible to kill her baby.

No ifs buts or maybes.

No amount of misplaced compassion justifies abortion. Abortion is barbaric evil and unjustifiable in all cases.

The fact that society does not step up and care for unwanted babies does not justify killing them

What about an ectopic pregnancy?

brickmauser

talking_walnut wrote: »

As Delirium said, there's a very specific definition of murder. Plenty of ways for a person to die by another persons hand and it not being murder. That's a fact. You don't get to decide what is and isn't murder. You might think it's equivalent but that doesn't change the fact that it's still not actually murder.

Plenty eggs get fertilized but never progress beyond that point. That's a fact. The majority of doctors and scientists (the people who study this kind of thing) disagree that a human being is created at conception. That's another fact.


Fact fact fact fact. Did you know that the more you use the word "fact" in a sentence, the more trueier the sentance is? Well it's a fact.
Fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact fact

The fertilized egg is a human being. That is a fact.

Killing the unborn ends a human life. That is a fact.

The intentional killing of an innocent being is murder. That is a fact.

When you accept the fact that the unborn is a human and you accept the fact that killing an innocent human intentionally is murder then you must accept as fact that intentionally killing the unborn is murder.

You are denying logic and fact if you deny this.

You cannot argue against this because any argument in favour of abortion is not factual or logical or scientific.

End of

eviltwin

LexieOnRale wrote: »

What about an ectopic pregnancy?

Murder!!!!!!!!!!

eviltwin

If abortion is murder is smoking during pregnancy child abuse?

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a bit torn on this one. While I am in favour of the womans right to choose, I also believe that from conception, there is a person growing inside the mother.
How I reached this conclusion is that as a mother, who lost 3 babies, each time to me it was a living breathing person, who I was anxious to meet and rear.
This probably makes no sense to anyone who has never miscarried a much wanted child, but might give an insight into how difficult some of us find the question.

There is another AH thread discussing the 8th amendment a page or two back which is a bit more genuine and sincere. Your sincere post might be better suited there than in this abomination.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057648696

brickmauser

eviltwin wrote: »

If abortion is murder is smoking during pregnancy child abuse?

Yes

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Are you male or female brickmauser?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm a bit torn on this one. While I am in favour of the womans right to choose, I also believe that from conception, there is a person growing inside the mother.
How I reached this conclusion is that as a mother, who lost 3 babies, each time to me it was a living breathing person, who I was anxious to meet and rear.
This probably makes no sense to anyone who has never miscarried a much wanted child, but might give an insight into how difficult some of us find the question.

Nobody will be forced to have an abortion, and much wanted babies will not be aborted. Just because someone would like to have a baby is no reason to force another woman into carrying a child and giving birth to a child she doesn't want. You cannot force your beliefs on someone else. It's just about having the right to CHOOSE what happens to YOUR body.

Someone losing a wanted baby, and someone being forced to continue with an unwanted pregnancy would be equally as traumatic.

LCD

brickmauser wrote: »

A human being is created by the fertilisation of an egg by a sperm.

Are you going to deny that basic biological fact?

Myself & Mrs LCD through assisted reproduction produced six fertilised eggs. 2 years ago they all sitting in a freezer in a lab. After 3 failed rounds of IVF, we have decided enough pain & heart ache is enough. We will not be doing it again, so those 3 remaining eggs will ultimately be destroyed. Are we committing murder?

brickmauser

eviltwin wrote: »

Murder!!!!!!!!!!

By resorting to absurdity and attempts at mockery without presenting a coherent argument to counter mine you are admitting defeat.

You cannot argue against my logic and reasoning.

talking_walnut

Lollipops23 wrote: »

But if the egg simply does not implant? And I always ask, why is that, should I suffer a miscarriage at say 7 or 8 weeks, the state does not recognise that a human has died and issue a death cert? Why is that?

Not just the state, the church would laugh in your face if you wanted a full burial.

TheFatHombre

Don't worry about the hate, all you will get on here is Hillary Clinton pneumonia triggered liberals, who regurgitate information which was fed to them either by MSM or some fancy university, I for one agree with you morality always, always beats legislation no matter how many triggilypuffs you get out on the street, I'm not religious so you liberals can stop foaming out of your mouths, I believe that inside our bodies there is an energy, soul a spirit whatever you may call it, I believe that just because a human organism hasn't formed in the early weeks of pregnancy doesn't mean an energy, a soul or spirit is attached to that mother, and to terminate that GIFT that abundance of love within you is cruel, actually it's not cruel is dam right evil, PS Taking money from a billionaire who has the blood of thousands on his hands is never a good start either

quad_red

brickmauser wrote: »

The fertilization of an egg creates a living human being.

You can't argue otherwise.

Of course one can argue otherwise. To state an opinion as fact and to go further and dismiss any counter argument immediately isn't rational. Or 'scientific' either come to think of it.

It's understandable why you feel the way you do.

The physical realities of a termination is pretty grim whatever way you think of it.

But surely you can see entertain the possibility that even in certain circumstances a termination is something even you could consider?

Insisting in black and white that no matter of physical or mental suffering, even the potential death of the mother, in any way matters in comparison to a fetus isn't scientific. Or rational.

Delirium

brickmauser wrote: »

The fertilized egg is a human being. That is a fact.

Killing the unborn ends a human life. That is a fact.

The intentional killing of an innocent being is murder. That is a fact.

When you accept the fact that the unborn is a human and you accept the fact that killing an innocent human intentionally is murder then you must accept as fact that intentionally killing the unborn is murder.

You are denying logic and fact if you deny this.

You cannot argue against this because any argument in favour of abortion is not factual or logical or scientific.

End of

So you oppose allowing for abortion when it is necessary to save the life of the woman? :eek::eek::eek:

brickmauser

LCD wrote: »

Myself & Mrs LCD through assisted reproduction produced six fertilised eggs. 2 years ago they all sitting in a freezer in a lab. After 3 failed rounds of IVF, we have decided enough pain & heart ache is enough. We will not be doing it again, so those 3 remaining eggs will ultimately be destroyed. Are we committing murder?

Yes

Your selfishness has resulted in the needless deaths of three human beings. You are killing three of your own children your own flesh and blood.

VinLieger

brickmauser wrote: »

Yes

What if a women accidentally falls over causing a miscarriage while going about their normal day to day life is that murder? manslaughter? or what? Road deaths caused by people not paying attention can easily end up being charged as manslaughter so if a mother missed a step while day dreaming and fell down a stairs whats the difference? Should pregnant women therefore be chained to beds for the whole 9-10 months of their pregnancies?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

brickmauser wrote: »

The fertilized egg is a human being. That is a fact.

Killing the unborn ends a human life. That is a fact.

The intentional killing of an innocent being is murder. That is a fact.

When you accept the fact that the unborn is a human and you accept the fact that killing an innocent human intentionally is murder then you must accept as fact that intentionally killing the unborn is murder.

You are denying logic and fact if you deny this.

You cannot argue against this because any argument in favour of abortion is not factual or logical or scientific.

End of

Nope it's removing a forigen body from ones own body (some might even say parasite) to let it fend for itself outside a woman's body. If it is not able to survive disconnected from a woman's body, is it really a human being?

Riesen_Meal

brickmauser wrote: »

By resorting to absurdity and attempts at mockery without presenting a coherent argument to counter mine you are admitting defeat.

You cannot argue against my logic and reasoning.

Get down off that high horse - you can't hear the crowd screaming to repeal the 8th down here....

bucketybuck

I'm sincerely worried about the current generations ability to spot blatant trolling.

Discodog

So aborting a damaged embryo that cannot survive is murder but allowing that foetus to suffer for months is fine with you.

brickmauser

VinLieger wrote: »

What if a women accidentally falls over causing a miscarriage while going about their normal day to day life is that murder? manslaughter? or what? Road deaths caused by people not paying attention can easily end up being charged as manslaughter so if a mother missed a step while day dreaming and fell down a stairs whats the difference? Should pregnant women therefore be chained to beds for the whole 9-10 months of their pregnancies?

If it can be proven that a person caused the death of a baby in the woman by carelessness or intentionally then yes they should be punished accordingly for causing the death of a human being. Two unborn children were murdered in the Omagh bomb.

LCD

brickmauser wrote: »

Yes

Your selfishness has resulted in the needless deaths of three human beings. You are killing three of your own children your own flesh and blood.

However it is just a cell, there is no flesh & blood.

lawred2

brickmauser wrote: »

Yes

Your selfishness has resulted in the needless deaths of three human beings. You are killing three of your own children your own flesh and blood.

ah would you ever just get lost

troll

OldGoat

brickmauser wrote: »

This is not about belief this is about fact.
The fact is a fertilized egg is human and that fact is that killing it is murder.
Killing the unborn human at any point between fertilization of the egg and birth is therefore murder.
That is a fact that is not open to any dispute whatsoever.
The fact are undeniable.

“You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.”


― Daniel Patrick Moynihan

danois

Posts like this annoy me. I am anti abortion I could never have an abortion. I won't go into detail as I'm sure people might know me but I have been in a situation where a lot of people recommend an abortion. Not for medical reason but because of how the pregnancy came about. I sat and considered the issue long and hard and I came to the conclusion that I personally feel it's murder. I don't have any science to back up when an egg becomes a human but my own personal belief is from conception that's a little human.

In saying that I would never judge someone who did and to say if a mums life's in danger tough luck is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. I don't see the need for people to constantly try force their issues and beliefs down other people's necks. This will forever be a divisive issue. We can go back and forth forever and it won't matter.

It's a very personal issue and choice for anyone to make. I've had a close friend make the decision to abort her baby. I didn't scream murderer in her face. I didn't degrade and scream at her. I didn't try and talk her around. I understood it's her choice to make and why the hell the rest of the world can't keep their gobs shut and let people have their own opinion is beyond me.

In saying that if there is another referendum I will still vote no to abortion. Not because I don't want people to have the choice to abort but i don't want it to be so easy that it becomes used almost like a form of conception. Which although I'm sure wouldn't be common place I'm sure it would happen.

brickmauser

LCD wrote: »

However it is just a cell, there is no flesh & blood.

They are human beings. They are alive and they will be killed. Flesh and blood is a figure of speech. You cannot deny your guilt.

Speedwell

Can we just can it with the "mothers can't support abortion" nonsense? I was a birthmother who gave a baby up for adoption in college because I chose not to have an abortion. If I knew then what I knew now, I would have had one anyway, because the fallout was extremely difficult to recover from. Even then, I was a middle-class, educated white girl in excellent health, with a supportive boyfriend and friendly agency who helped me, the pick of three adoptive families in each of which one was a doctor and the other a teacher, and my pregnancy expenses completely paid. I had an uneventful delivery and the baby was perfect. It was a true best-case scenario, and if any part of it had gone wrong, my life would have been ruined instead of just permanently changed. Most people considering abortion don't get to have best-case scenarios. After all, abortion is about the pregnant person.

Riesen_Meal

brickmauser wrote: »

They are human beings. They are alive and they will be killed. Flesh and blood is a figure of speech. You cannot deny your guilt.

I think you are just trolling at this stage...

If you think a bag of blood, puss and chromosomes is a person then you have other issues to get past first...