New 41kWh Zoe leaked

cros13

The current 22kWh R240 will continue to be offered as the Zoe "Entry"

The new model is the 41kWh R90. Bump in motor power to 65kW from 57kW.
Range is 400km NEDC. 260-300km in the real world.
Version with rapid charging is the Q90.

Pricing looks looks like a €2,500 premium for the new model. Might be €3-3.5k onto the Irish price.

InsideEVs got the following images:


Outside of the leaked info insideEVs has, I have some more info. Pack is from LG Chem. Cell format is the same as Nissan will be using for the new Leaf that's due on the road in January (not the 2nd gen yet!) and their new EV & PHEV Nissan Note.

ei9go

Excellent as long as they sell it with the battery.

KCross

http://insideevs.com/new-2017-renault-zoe-ze-40-400-km-range-41-kwh-battery/

They show prices for battery rent and own.

cros13

KCross wrote: »

http://insideevs.com/new-2017-renault-zoe-ze-40-400-km-range-41-kwh-battery/

They show prices for battery rent and own.

In Norway, Denmark and NL Renault have always offered the option to purchase the battery.

The pricing being listed on those slides is not an indication that battery purchase will be offered here.

Basic is 76 HP ? 57 Kw lol, typical Renault. Unreal, 0-100 in what 18 - 20 seconds with the extra weight ? that's unreal. Should be illegal !

There is absolutely no need for such under powered cars today giving the ultra cheap cost of electricity as fuel but it's typical of Renault.

The 90 Hp should be the absolute minimum and at that it would be too slow for me. I can't believe the max available power is still 89 HP ? come on Renault FFS !!!

I find it rather amusing they decide to omit 44 Kw charging in the R90 because the tiny efficiency gain does not make up for the loss of fast charging this is ridiculous, because Zoe will now go from a 0-80% charge in 2 hrs from 1 due to the larger battery, shame on Renault for this !

Anyway the range upgrade is good but I fear that because the car is basically what most Irish car buyers would consider a Clio and most Clios bought are 15 K petrols and an EV costing twice as much simply will not sell in Ireland because 15K buys a hell of a lot of petrol.

They need to get the cost of these cars down fast.

Sabre Man

So about the same entry price as a Leaf and then battery rental (or about €8000 to buy the battery, if available) on top of that.

Sabre Man

Sabre Man wrote: »

So about the same entry price as a Leaf and then battery rental (or about €8000 to buy the battery, if available) on top of that.

In Holland the top spec Q90 was about €37.4k which would make it €28k here with the incentives and that's including the bought battery. So the base model with rental should be around €15k?

Edit: As the base model is 21k with rental is should only be about 11k here?

737max

OK. I am now able to consider this car as a practical purchase option. It has a Bose trim level, it has adequate range, it is affordable.
I'd still prefer if they slipped the running gear in to a Clio body so that I don't have to explain that I'm running an EV and as the batteries are shrinking it should be possible.
Also without having a separate production line for the Zoe and development costs for the Zoe a Clio EV should be cheaper to manufacture and purchase.
I can't ever be completely happy but I've now got an EV car available to me which I can consider for purchase.
Dashboard is still cheap and yuk.

grogi

cros13 wrote: »

The current 22kWh R240 will continue to be offered as the Zoe "Entry"

The new model is the 41kWh R90. Bump in motor power to 65kW from 57kW.
Range is 400km NEDC. 260-300km in the real world.
Version with rapid charging is the Q90.

Pricing looks looks like a €2,500 premium for the new model. Might be €3-3.5k onto the Irish price.

InsideEVs got the following images:


Outside of the leaked info insideEVs has, I have some more info. Pack is from LG Chem. Cell format is the same as Nissan will be using for the new Leaf that's due on the road in January (not the 2nd gen yet!) and their new EV & PHEV Nissan Note.

Can you buy it outright with the battery in Ireland? If not, the sole purchase price should not change, because you're essentially buying the same things...

samih

samih wrote: »

In Holland the top spec Q90 was about €37.4k which would make it €28k here with the incentives and that's including the bought battery. So the base model with rental should be around €15k?

Edit: As the base model is 21k with rental is should only be about 11k here?

Afaik VAT in Holland is 4 % ?

737max

737max wrote: »

OK. I am now able to consider this car as a practical purchase option. It has a Bose trim level, it has adequate range, it is affordable.
I'd still prefer if they slipped the running gear in to a Clio body so that I don't have to explain that I'm running an EV and as the batteries are shrinking it should be possible.
Also without having a separate production line for the Zoe and development costs for the Zoe a Clio EV should be cheaper to manufacture and purchase.
I can't ever be completely happy but I've now got an EV car available to me which I can consider for purchase.
Dashboard is still cheap and yuk.

Wait for the Leaf 40 Kwh announcement before you make a decision. If it ever happens.....

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

The current 22kWh R240 will continue to be offered as the Zoe "Entry"

The new model is the 41kWh R90. Bump in motor power to 65kW from 57kW.
Range is 400km NEDC. 260-300km in the real world.
Version with rapid charging is the Q90.

Pricing looks looks like a €2,500 premium for the new model. Might be €3-3.5k onto the Irish price.

InsideEVs got the following images:


Outside of the leaked info insideEVs has, I have some more info. Pack is from LG Chem. Cell format is the same as Nissan will be using for the new Leaf that's due on the road in January (not the 2nd gen yet!) and their new EV & PHEV Nissan Note.

I find to beleive there will be a 40 kw leaf in a couple of months. Model year is usually June to July. It would have been announced by now surely ( the 30 kWh was at this stage )

cros13

There is the possibility of a rebadged Zoe being sold as a Nissan as well.

grogi

Deleted User wrote: »

Afaik VAT in Holland is 4 % ?

21%. Plus they have registration tax as well - but knowing the Dutch, electrics are exempt.

cros13

BoatMad wrote: »

I find to beleive there will be a 40 kw leaf in a couple of months. Model year is usually June to July. It would have been announced by now surely ( the 30 kWh was at this stage )

From what I've heard a new Leaf SKU based on the current design is entering production in December. The 30kWh started production in september/october, so it's a slightly different timescale which would allow for a later announcement.

I heard about the new SKU going into production from someone in Nissan UK, but battery rumors are coming from someone much further up in the development cycle. So they know what went through their dept. and when, but not what timescale they are on for production. I'm just drawing dots between the two that may or may not pan out. I was about 6 months out on the announcement of the 30kWh by the same method so take with a liberal number of grains of salt.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

From what I've heard a new Leaf SKU based on the current design is entering production in December. The 30kWh started production in september/october, so it's a slightly different timescale which would allow for a later announcement.

I heard about the new SKU going into production from someone in Nissan UK, but battery rumors are coming from someone much further up in the development cycle. So they know what went through their dept. and when, but not what timescale they are on for production. I'm just drawing dots between the two that may or may not pan out. I was about 6 months out on the announcement of the 30kWh by the same method so take with a liberal number of grains of salt.

I find in hard to believe the current Leaf enclosure will allow 40 kw/h without some form of battery cooling

There'd be no room to make for cooling.

And I remember you saying "nissan engineers know what they're doing that they don't need to cool it"

The thing is, due to the battery capacity being about twice it should be able to take a higher C rate or current so the current 45 Kw chargers may very well not warm it up much at all and it's likely it could take 100 Kw, though that might be pushing it without cooling. But if the chemistry is designed to take it it shouldn't be an issue.

I charge LiPo at 2-5 times their rated capacity some can take higher C rates without getting warm or notably warm.

Most battery manufacturers give cell specs based on 1 c charge and 1c discharge rates.

The Leaf 24 Kwh charges at about 2 C max. EV batteries , in fact all batteries are a compromise in some way. Depending on the application, in the leaf priority No.1 is safety. Everything else is sacrificed. Most EV's it will be the same, the Tesla focus on energy density but their cells are not safe but the cars themselves are quiet safe. A battery fire shouldn't cause death unless someone is stupid enough to sit in the car and allow themselves to be consumed in flames. A petrol car is vastly more dangerous.

737max

I'm reading the German price list pdf for the Zoe and the 41kw battery pack weighs 15 kilos more than the 22 kw battery. 305kg rather than 290kg

I notice that the very nice 17" Alloys reduce the range by 8%
I notice that the battery rental model has changed slightly with the an increase of about 10 euro per month for the 41kw version. The base mileage appears to be 7500km p.a. now rather than 5000km and there is a flat charge above 20,000km.
Battery costs €8000 to buy irrespective of whether it is a 22kw or 41kw unit.


I also note that consumption is calculated with maximum speed of 90kmph as a low performance vehicle.

In mild weather they state in the pdf that the 400km range reduces to 300 and in cold weather it reduces further to 200. I don't think that in Ireland one can ever expect 400km range whereas in summer in most of mainland Europe you can expect maximum range most of the time.

It appears that we are in a numbers race now and the bigger the number the better e.g 40 is better than 30, 30 is better than 20.
If they had stayed at 22kw and shrunk the battery they'd have increased the range purely through a reduction in the amount of weight being dragged around and a smaller battery pack can be charged quicker.

The Zoe is very high and it takes a lot of effort to push that through the air.
114mm higher than the Clio although ground clearance is the same.

The twingo/smart forfour conforms more to my idea of what an EV should look like. Rear-drive and no complicated bonnet for a car which is after all basically maintenance free. It is a shame that the battery capacity on the Smart ForFour is so low as that would be so much cheaper for me to buy than the Zoe.

We all know 400 Kms range is based on the farcical NEDC range which is a simulated test.

Real range for the Zoe will be a very respectable 220 driving quiet hard to 280 Kms driving more gentle. Winter or Summer.

One thing I wish it had was a more powerful motor, 150 Hp would be reasonable. I hate this one power for all idea. Give people options......

Bixler3

UK pricing released for new Zoe - starting at £17,845 inc. battery. I wonder what that will translate to here - €23k??

Update: thats the 22KwH battery, sorry, the 41KwH battery version starts at £23,445 inclusive of £4500 UK government grant.

isnottheword

Bixler3 wrote: »

UK pricing released for 41KwH Zoe - starting at £17,845 inc. battery. I wonder what that will translate to here - €23k??

What warranty will they offer with that vehicle/battery?

Bixler3

isnottheword wrote: »

What warranty will they offer with that vehicle/battery?

Not sure, sorry, I contacted Renault Ireland but they are not launching the new Zoe here 'til early 2017.

737max

In Germany:
12 years anti-corrosion
3 years paintwork
2 years vehicle warranty
unlimited mileage battery warranty with 75% replacement threshold for rented batteries and 66% replacement threshold for bought batteries.

Renault Garantie1
• Bis zu 12 Jahren Garantie gegen Korrosion von innen nach außen, abhängig
vom Fahrzeugtyp.
• 3 Jahre Lackgarantie.
• 2 Jahre Neuwagengarantie ohne Kilometerbegrenzung auf die elektrische
Antriebseinheit.
• Batteriekapazität bei Batteriemiete mindestens 75 %, bei Batteriekauf
mindestens 66 %

I'd be a bit annoyed if my battery reached 66% and they replaced it with a battery that had reached 75% for a lease Customer.
There appears to be no time limit on the battery replacement interval. If it is transferable then a 5 or 7 year old Zoe with a battery that can still 180km or more on a charge would still be attractive as a city runabout.