Cycle Funding Protest 3 October 5:30pm

Chuchote

What is Critical Mass?

Grassey

Chuchote wrote: »

What is Critical Mass?

I'm out if those religious loons join the protest!!!

Chuchote

Oh, Critical Mass is a mass cycle, apparently. Never seen it. Religious? I believe in Rothar Mór an tSaol, does that count

Moflojo

Chuchote wrote: »

What is Critical Mass?

Catholic religious ceremony from the 1950s where the priest goes up to the pulpit and publicly shames any sinners in the congregation.

"Brigid Mahony was seen wearing the same socks for three days in a row last week. Sort it out Bridge."

"Tony Byrne won a significant sum in the bookies on Tuesday and it is expected that his contribution to this morning's offertory will be reflective of his windfall."

"Margaret Walshe is a FILTHY HUSSY!!!"

Something along those lines...

Chuchote

Moflojo wrote: »

I think you raise an important point. Although the symbolism of arriving outside the Dept. of Transport is obvious, the narrow space on Leeson Lane doesn't lend itself to communicating the scale of the protest. I'd suggest Smithfield Plaza as a potential Start/Finish point for future protests. Smithfield -> Merrion Square West (Outside Govt. Buildings) could work well.

Another potential assembly point could be the green space alongside the Royal Canal on Guild Street, near where Donna Fox was killed. Cycle from there across the Beckett Bridge (visually impactful) up Pearse Street and then take a left towards Merrion Square to finish up and have a rally.

I wouldn't use the place where Donna Fox was killed simply because most people won't know how to find it. Dead Zoo, where yesterday's protest met, is a good place to meet - outside Government Buildings.

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/National+Museum+of+Ireland+-+Natural+History+Museum/@53.3394064,-6.2523567,3a,75y,226.52h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sFykFqdwunEl8UD_3K7KjGw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DFykFqdwunEl8UD_3K7KjGw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D212.19896%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x48670e975ad04aeb:0xc660d79f6963a530!8m2!3d53.3398848!4d-6.2533478

Corca Baiscinn

I dont know that Dublin does monthly Critical Mass cycles as happens in Germany for instance but they certainly had one last year at Halloween where people dressed up in costume. It's a type of guerrilla cycling in so far as a bunch of cyclists gather at a predetermined place and time and reclaim the streets as it were but in theory there is no organiser and so nobody can be blamed or arrested. The group just "happens" to meet at the dorner of Dame St or wherever one evening. I observed one in Germany but unfortunately I think I deleted the photos. Not sure it would be a good idea for Dub at the minute apart from a fun special occasion one. The cycling community, in so far as there is one will need to generate lots of goodwill if this 1% funding is ever to increase so getting up people's noses might not be the best option.
Chuchote, are we on the bottom or middle of the Rothaí Móra an tSaoil revolution! Will Shane Ross give the wheel a good spin!

Moflojo

Chuchote wrote: »

I wouldn't use the place where Donna Fox was killed simply because most people won't know how to find it.

It's right beside the Beckett Bridge on the northside. If people can't find it there's no hope for them!

buffalo

Peterx wrote: »

I liked that it wasn't really a protest in the usual angry alienating way. It was very good natured. It only lacked a mobile coffee van setting up shop outside the minister's office.

Reasonable people looking for a reasonable slice of the transport budget.

I thought this myself - for example, the instructions from organisers to leave room on the footpath for people to get through at the start were very considerate. No political agendas or hateful chants - just sensible folk out to try achieve something perfectly reasonable.


PS thought I saw the back of your head there, but never got a chance to say hello!

monument

AlreadyHome wrote: »

"Government must help to eliminate cars so that bicycles can help to eliminate government" Anarchist slogan from the Netherlands, 1970s (apparently)

That slogan translation sounds like it was got from Google Translate!

monument

Chuchote wrote: »

So… when's the next one?

If we got 80 on the first protest looking for 10% of transport funding for cycling, and 1,000 on the second (with minimal publicity), can we get 10,000 on the next one, 100,000 on the one after?

It's not a big ask; after all, the Great Dublin Bike Ride had 5,000 people on it, and these were exclusively people prepared to cycle 60+ kilometres. If we can get all of those, plus all of the grannies in cardigans and mammies with child seats and people who amble out along the riverside on the bike, we can get these cycleways, and more.

If we can get cyclists from all over the country closing in on Dublin in one hour and cyclng through the streets ringing their bells and standing outside the Dail and Government Buildings - we've got a movement!

I think you're half joking generally but it's worth pointing out that there was a large publicity push by volunteers helping the Dublin Cycling Campaign.

They handed out leaflets at rush hour at canal crossing points and other locations across the city, they dropped leaflets to bike shops, they pushed it in on social media, and they got media coverage (including Morning Ireland on the morning of the protest and The Irish Times and thejournal.ie, and little known cycling websites).

Compared to the smaller Green Party event a week or two ago, it was also not party politically branded -- which gives a wider audience and allows groups who have to stay out of party politics to share it.

I'm not saying there could not be a larger protest which builds on the momentum, I'm just saying a lot of work was done by volunteers, and it's worth mentioning their work.

2RockMountain

Eponymous wrote: »

Two years as a minister (or Ceann Comhairle, AG, Tanaiste or Taoiseach).

Is it not three years?

Moflojo wrote: »

Catholic religious ceremony from the 1950s where the priest goes up to the pulpit and publicly shames any sinners in the congregation.

"Brigid Mahony was seen wearing the same socks for three days in a row last week. Sort it out Bridge."

"Tony Byrne won a significant sum in the bookies on Tuesday and it is expected that his contribution to this morning's offertory will be reflective of his windfall."

"Margaret Walshe is a FILTHY HUSSY!!!"

Something along those lines...

Are you allowed take notes? I'm terrible for names, so I'd be waking up the next morning thinking 'So Tony Byrne would be an easy pull then' or similar.

Chuchote wrote: »

What is Critical Mass?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPnkeJP0se4

buffalo

I only read the letter to Shane Ross tonight (http://cyclist.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Shane-RossProtestLetter-Final.pdf), and I learned a new word:

Our children have a human right not to grow up in an obesogenic environment due to cycling-hostile traffic management.

obesogenic
ə(ʊ)ˌbiːsəˈdjɛnɪk/
adjective
tending to cause obesity.

Chuchote

No, I wasn't joking about the possible figures for cycle protests, I think they're absolutely possible.

Moflojo wrote: »

It's right beside the Beckett Bridge on the northside. If people can't find it there's no hope for them!

Ah, sorry, if you say it that way it's different. I heard 'Five Lamps' and went 'uhhhh, yeah, up there…'

Not at all dissing the great work by volunteers handing out leaflets (though I personally didn't see any, but then I'm not commuting into the city). I was really talking about the lack of preceding publicity on radio and TV and in the papers.

Incidentally, should the next cycles also stop at the Department of Health? British figures say that a move to mass cycling would save their National Health £17 billion a year. What would the equivalent be here? Is this at least part of the answer to our health crisis?

AlreadyHome

Big fan of those simple statistic diagrams - I reckon that's where the cycling campaign need to start putting some focus and getting out online.

On another note, cycling through Ranelagh last night I noticed they've painted lots of fresh white parking boxes on top of the bike lanes leading towards the canal. This was probably the one area of Ranelagh where people didn't park in the area to date. Found myself feeling somewhat deflated.

Chuchote

AlreadyHome wrote: »

Big fan of those simple statistic diagrams - I reckon that's where the cycling campaign need to start putting some focus and getting out online.

On another note, cycling through Ranelagh last night I noticed they've painted lots of fresh white parking boxes on top of the bike lanes leading towards the canal. This was probably the one area of Ranelagh where people didn't park in the area to date. Found myself feeling somewhat deflated.

Write to the council and ask them about it.

I've just sent a rather immense email to councillors in relation to the Liffeyside Cycleway (which they're having presented to them today) and cycling in Dublin generally. If anyone wants a copy, PM me. I could post it here, but it might break the servers!

Corca Baiscinn

Super chart Chuhcote! Re advance publicity in media for protest, trouble is we're talking about a voluntary group with day jobs presumably and no advertising budget so guess all they could have done differently is sent out press releases earlier and tried for earlier interviews. But that might have led to a scatter-gun approach and media may not have been interested much in advance. there's no way a small voluntary group could have leafleted the city centre and the suburbs so guess they concentrated on main routes close to city centre. Love your posts and your energy btw! Let us know what reaction you get to your email!

Weepsie

This academic article might be of interest here. I've not read it in full yet, but addresses some of the issues around funding for cycling in Ireland, and how it is often down to short termism, parish pump politics.

To me, it partly addresses the problem of simply asking for money as this does on the face of things (as in it will be squandered). Interesting how funding was granted coming up to a by-election, and in a TDs own constituency but rejected elsewhere.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282656946_Spokes_or_Strokes_Clientelism_and_Cycling_Funding_in_Ireland

Chuchote

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Super chart Chuhcote! Re advance publicity in media for protest, trouble is we're talking about a voluntary group with day jobs presumably and no advertising budget so guess all they could have done differently is sent out press releases earlier and tried for earlier interviews. But that might have led to a scatter-gun approach and media may not have been interested much in advance. there's no way a small voluntary group could have leafleted the city centre and the suburbs so guess they concentrated on main routes close to city centre. Love your posts and your energy btw! Let us know what reaction you get to your email!

Thanks - any leafletting help you need, just shout. I wasn't scolding yiz for not getting pre-publicity, more saying that a few calls and emails to the big radio shows (not forgetting Raidió na Life and other smaller and voluntary and local shows which are often the training ground for later journalistic stars) and the newsrooms of RTE and TV3 might get a bit of traction. Relax - you did great!

I've immediately had four emails back - all positive - from out of the 62 councillors I emailed.

Again, if anyone wants the full email - or if the mods don't mind I can post it here, because it's full of facts and links - I'm willing.

Moflojo

Weepsie wrote: »

This academic article might be of interest here. I've not read it in full yet, but addresses some of the issues around funding for cycling in Ireland, and how it is often down to short termism, parish pump politics.

To me, it partly addresses the problem of simply asking for money as this does on the face of things (as in it will be squandered). Interesting how funding was granted coming up to a by-election, and in a TDs own constituency but rejected elsewhere.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282656946_Spokes_or_Strokes_Clientelism_and_Cycling_Funding_in_Ireland

Weepsie, did you go to the protest on Monday?

If you did, you would have heard a variety of speakers calling for a broad range of reasonable, sensible changes to be made in order to improve cycling in Ireland.

These changes include the creation of cycling officer positions & departments within councils to oversee the proper implementation of cycling infrastructure.

Weepsie, you keep knocking this protest movement without suggesting an alternative approach. It's your right to criticise and share your opinion, but if you keep doing so without offering anything constructive you're just going to come across as a naysayer.

Ian O'Doherty spouting a load of nonsense on Pat Kenny earlier. presumably on the back of this article:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/cycling-dogooders-if-you-want-to-be-taken-seriously-you-should-start-paying-road-tax-35105042.html

tomasrojo

ronoc wrote: »

Ian O'Doherty spouting a load of nonsense on Pat Kenny earlier. presumably on the back of this article:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/cycling-dogooders-if-you-want-to-be-taken-seriously-you-should-start-paying-road-tax-35105042.html

Mentioned over there

Weepsie

Moflojo wrote: »

Weepsie, did you go to the protest on Monday?

If you did, you would have heard a variety of speakers calling for a broad range of reasonable, sensible changes to be made in order to improve cycling in Ireland.

These changes include the creation of cycling officer positions & departments within councils to oversee the proper implementation of cycling infrastructure.

Weepsie, you keep knocking this protest movement without suggesting an alternative approach. It's your right to criticise and share your opinion, but if you keep doing so without offering anything constructive you're just going to come across as a naysayer.

No I didn't as I work late on Mondays. My issue was with the advertisement and the "we want X amount".

It's headline grabbing sure, but it can be used as a stick to beat the entire thing down by opponents. I already stated my objections to it and got shot down (wrongly too I think). AlreadyHome did at least engage with what I was saying, but others just did the "lalalala, youre wrong, fingers in the ear" sort of response and didn't have any sort of reply to my points which I did raise.

I'm not knocking the protest, as I'm all for better cycling infrastructure, I just think the approach is a little off. The most important and basic of requirements need to be identified, and clamoured for loudest in literature and adverts, not some headline figure (as impactful as it is and probably gets people talking) taken from a headline stat that is also misleading. The CSO report you had the other day mixes cycling and walking at 16.7 %. Walking makes up nearly 15 of that %, cycling only 2%. I have a problem with that and that's what I said.

I also believe that without preplanning, that any money will be completely squandered as is tradition in Ireland.

You want the those on the fence to support, it's best not to mention money at a time when there seems to be none to spare for those in most need.

Moflojo

Weepsie wrote: »

My issue was with the advertisement and the "we want X amount".

It's headline grabbing sure, but it can be used as a stick to beat the entire thing down by opponents. I already stated my objections to it and got shot down (wrongly too I think).

I get where you're coming from but I think the headline-grabbing nature of the figure has captured the imagination and raised the public's attention to the matter (both good things). I also understand how it can be used as a stick - the opposition has already fastened onto the idea that 10% of a €10bn transport plan equates to €1bn and now the argument is "You want €1bn for cycling?! But we've barely enough money for clothes on our backs!"

Personally I think the initial focus should be on completing the grand schemes - for proof of concept - and everything else will flow from there, in the same way that the success of the Great Western Greenway has inspired the development of other such greenways nationwide.

To be specific, I think the following schemes should be prioritised and completed before 2020:

Royal Canal Greenway: From the Beckett Bridge to Blanchardstown (and eventually all the way to Galway).

Dodder Greenway (Mountains to the Sea): Glenasmole to Ringsend.

Grand Canal Cycleway: From Kilmainham all the way to the docklands.

Liffey Cycleway: Along the north quays.

S2S Sutton to Sandycove

Dublin Bikes Scheme: Fill in the blanks in the network before expanding beyond the canals. Currently the blanks are Dolphin's Barn, Liberties, Phoenix Park, Grangegorman, Stoneybatter & O'Devaney Gardens, Phibsboro, Drumcondra.

Corca Baiscinn

Weepsie wrote: »

No I didn't as I work late on Mondays. My issue was with the advertisement and the "we want X amount".

It's headline grabbing sure, but it can be used as a stick to beat the entire t

You want the those on the fence to support, it's best not to mention money at a time when there seems to be none to spare for those in most need.

but there IS money, it's the Transport Budget. Coming up to every budget the various ministers submit their estimates and after vigorous haggling they get a proportion of what they requested for Health, Education, Transport etc. The question is how the transport cake is divided and yes, if money is spent on x it wont be available for y unless more money is raised through taxation or savings. Also I think you can take it that the organisers are not demanding a blank cheque for a €1B or any other amount with no idea of how/where it should be spent. All campaigns have various strands, mobilising numbers on the street is one strand but I imagine that there is a lot of research and backroom work going on simultaneously. If you follow some of the Cycle Campaigning on social Media you will get an idea of what they do but obviously some of the work goes on in committee too.

buffalo

For anyone who thought the protest could be improved, here's a chance to get involved and help! Or if you thought the protest was great, here's a chance to give something back!

http://cyclist.ie/2016/10/campaigners-seek-better-train-bicycle-integration-volunteer-needed/

We would really like to hear from you if you are a regular train user – and cyclist – and have thought carefully about how Irish Rail could better accommodate its cycling customers. The ideal volunteer will have some knowledge of how progressive systems abroad work in terms of combining bike and rail, and/or can help us carry out research on this topic.

2RockMountain

Weepsie wrote: »

No I didn't as I work late on Mondays. My issue was with the advertisement and the "we want X amount".

It's headline grabbing sure, but it can be used as a stick to beat the entire thing down by opponents. I already stated my objections to it and got shot down (wrongly too I think). AlreadyHome did at least engage with what I was saying, but others just did the "lalalala, youre wrong, fingers in the ear" sort of response and didn't have any sort of reply to my points which I did raise.

I'm not knocking the protest, as I'm all for better cycling infrastructure, I just think the approach is a little off. The most important and basic of requirements need to be identified, and clamoured for loudest in literature and adverts, not some headline figure (as impactful as it is and probably gets people talking) taken from a headline stat that is also misleading. The CSO report you had the other day mixes cycling and walking at 16.7 %. Walking makes up nearly 15 of that %, cycling only 2%. I have a problem with that and that's what I said.

I also believe that without preplanning, that any money will be completely squandered as is tradition in Ireland.

You want the those on the fence to support, it's best not to mention money at a time when there seems to be none to spare for those in most need.

It reminds me of the old joke about the first point on the Agenda for any campaign group being the split.

Of course everyone is entitled to have individual views on these issues. However, if we want things to change, we need to work together rather than individually. Working together involves some degree of compromise - agreeing broad aims and working together to achieve those aims.

If we want to wait for the world to turn and meet our individual and exact needs, we could be waiting a long time.

jive

Moflojo wrote: »

Dublin Bikes Scheme: Fill in the blanks in the network before expanding beyond the canals. Currently the blanks are Dolphin's Barn, Liberties, Phoenix Park, Grangegorman, Stoneybatter & O'Devaney Gardens, Phibsboro, Drumcondra.

As someone who has never used a Dublin Bike I still think they should absolutely throw money at it. It's good for locals and it's good for tourists. It normalises cycle commuting and is far more likely to be taken up by your average joe than people buying expensive bikes on bike-to-work that they are afraid to use. I can only assume that it is a loss maker given it's low cost and the maintenance required but who cares. Great system.

Chuchote

There's a huge yawning gap in the Dublin Bikes parks all across between Rialto and Rathmines. They're terrified of those Clanbrassil Street hipsters, sure they'd ate you for breakfast - and lick the plate after!

Moflojo

Chuchote wrote: »

There's a huge yawning gap in the Dublin Bikes parks all across between Rialto and Rathmines. They're terrified of those Clanbrassil Street hipsters, sure they'd ate you for breakfast - and lick the plate after!

Socially deprived areas are being omitted by the Dublin Bikes scheme, and pretty blatantly too. Otherwise, could DublinBikes explain why IMMA is better served by the network than Connolly station?

There are 5 DB stations around Grand Canal dock alone. There are 6 stations in total to the west of the Four Courts on the northside.

Rialto, Dolphin's Barn, The Coombe, Blackpitts, Arbour Hill, O'Devaney Gardens, Grangegorman, East Wall. Sure they don't deserve public transport infrastructure.

Chips Lovell

Sigh, it's not a conspiracy.

Extending it out to Heuston was the priority for phase two, which explains how Inchicore and Kilmainham got stations. There's three stations around Rialto.

Plenty of well to do areas that aren't served by the scheme yet either.