Cycle Funding Protest 3 October 5:30pm

Annie get your Run

Deedsie wrote: »

I know that sign, it has disappeared. Why are there not more of them all over the city? Surely that would help more in the efforts of educating drivers?

Because the councils won't stand up for cyclists, god forbid anyone in a car should feel inferior to someone on a bike. The message needs to come from the top down and that's not happening. There are drivers out there who absolutely believe they would have the right of way turning left at that junction.

brocbrocach

buffalo wrote: »

It's worse because it does not prevent vehicles (including HGVs) from turning left on top of a cyclist, and it increases the likelihood of this happening because:
* cyclists are given a false sense of security by the poles and therefore more likely to indulge in risky behaviour/less likely to be cautious (i.e. ride assertively / take the lane)
* the motorist is less likely to be cautious of the cyclist as the cyclist is behind a barrier and therefore not part of the traffic on the road.

The basic conflict of cyclists proceeding straight being directed up the inside of left-turning traffic still exists, and the metal barriers which prevent the last-resort escape to the footpath are still in place. How is this an improved situation?

The wands mean that traffic won't turn in on the curb (unless they squash the wands in which case they will do what they want anyway) therefore the metal barriers aren't in play at all anymore. The turning circle of the motor vehicles means the danger point has moved a few metres into the junction now.
Every other left hand junction that exists in the world has the same problem of cyclists being on the inside going straight and motorists on the outside turning left. The wands at least ensure that space is left to the cyclist to avoid a collision and that the motorist must slow to take the angle of the corner.

Your magic solution of (1) making road users better (2) taking every left turn out of the equation, just simply will not happen. I'd love it to happen but it will not.
In the absence of that what are your solutions?

brocbrocach

P_1 wrote: »

I'll try to grab a pic on the way home but the way they are set up seem to give you the option of taking the lane of you're going straight

Loads of pics here:
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-new-dublin-junction-comes-too-late-for-cyclist-killed-by-truck/

buffalo

brocbrocach wrote: »

Your magic solution of (1) making road users better (2) taking every left turn out of the equation, just simply will not happen. I'd love it to happen but it will not.
In the absence of that what are your solutions?

In the absence of my solutions what are my solutions? Surprisingly I'm all out.

Annie get your Run

brocbrocach wrote: »

Loads of pics here:
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-new-dublin-junction-comes-too-late-for-cyclist-killed-by-truck/

Question, shouldn't cyclists be in a cycle box at the front of that junction in front of the stopped car? There is no cycle box of course but ordinarily that's where I'd position myself if the lights were red (box or not).

average_runner

buffalo wrote: »

Already done:

There is a habit of cyclists going straight on in a lane that clear has an arrow for turning left only. Cyclist need to obey this.

tampopo

magicbastarder wrote: »

generally, at a junction like this, if there's heavy vehicles, i'll tend to - if possible - move out into the lane and sit between the vehicle in front and the cehicle behind. the bollards like this could potentially prevent this option.

I disagree. They're bollards, not a railing. Continue to move out. Take the lane.

brocbrocach

buffalo wrote: »

In the absence of my solutions what are my solutions? Surprisingly I'm all out.

Well you may as well wish for world peace while you're at it.

HivemindXX

average_runner wrote: »

There is a habit of cyclists going straight on in a lane that clear has an arrow for turning left only. Cyclist need to obey this.

I'm sure you are aware that this isn't the case in the junction we are discussing here. Your comment is irrelevant at best.

Wishbone Ash

average_runner wrote: »

There is a habit of cyclists going straight on in a lane that clear has an arrow for turning left only. Cyclist need to obey this.

2 points:

1. On many of those lanes, the left only rule doesn't apply to buses (and other vehicles which are permitted to use bus lanes).

2. Cyclists are often in a no-win situation where there are no exemptions. I generally use the correct lane but I have occasionally had drivers indicating that I should not be in their way and to move over.

irishrover99

I clicked into this thread just to check if average runner was commenting and low and behold he is.

Must do the lotto later

OleRodrigo

irishrover99 wrote: »

I clicked into this thread just to check if average runner was commenting and low and behold he is.

Must do the lotto later

He makes some good points, except about earphones.

Good luck with the lotto

average_runner

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

2 points:

1. On many of those lanes, the left only rule doesn't apply to buses (and other vehicles which are permitted to use bus lanes).

2. Cyclists are often in a no-win situation where there are no exemptions. I generally use the correct lane but I have occasionally had drivers indicating that I should not be in their way and to move over.

There is a good few turning left lanes only in Dublin and not just for buses.

And cars break these rules too.

cython

Grassey wrote: »

If the lane (cycle) is straight through and sits to the left of a traffic lane which turns left across it, it's pretty obvious that any traffic that is crossing another lane has to yield. There was a sign to this effect previously at Fosters Ave.

Any other interpretation is nonsensical as it'd suggest that cars can enter minor roads/driveways etc across a cycle lane without yielding.

You could be excused for thinking that but since at least 2012 I don't think there is the concept of cycle "lanes" but rather they are described as cycle tracks and as such may not be regarded as a lane in the sense of giving way to traffic already present. The same law also said that cyclists should not pass on the left if the vehicle is indicating left and there is a reasonable expectation that they will be able to țurn before the cyclist has completed their overtake, and this makes no allowances for cycle tracks or lanes.

CramCycle

brocbrocach wrote: »

I don't think it's explained at all. I can't see how they worsen the corner from a cyclists pov and they certainly improve it in some ways.

Cyclists are now more confident coming upto the corner but HGVs are not in any better position than they were. Those wands would not even register if clipped by a lorry.

brocbrocach wrote: »

The wands mean that traffic won't turn in on the curb (unless they squash the wands in which case they will do what they want anyway) therefore the metal barriers aren't in play at all anymore. The turning circle of the motor vehicles means the danger point has moved a few metres into the junction now.
Every other left hand junction that exists in the world has the same problem of cyclists being on the inside going straight and motorists on the outside turning left. The wands at least ensure that space is left to the cyclist to avoid a collision and that the motorist must slow to take the angle of the corner.

Your magic solution of (1) making road users better (2) taking every left turn out of the equation, just simply will not happen. I'd love it to happen but it will not.
In the absence of that what are your solutions?

Why put the metal barriers there in the first place then. Because they accept there is a chance a motorist will hit them. Splitting the cycle lane well in advance so that there is a left turn and straight ahead (to the right of the left lane) might be a solution. Personally, I just take the lane before the junction.

This morning I used cycle lanes for the first time in a long time. On a few occasions, motorists pulled up beside me and then started merging across. As soon as Back to the right way of taking the lane from tomorrow on.

The only real solution I can think of is a warning for cyclists to take the lane if going straight on, and a camera for left turning traffic that if they don't indicate, or cut someone up, they get fined, heavily.

Chuchote

CramCycle wrote: »

Cyclists are now more confident coming upto the corner but HGVs are not in any better position than they were. Those wands would not even register if clipped by a lorry.

Why put the metal barriers there in the first place then. Because they accept there is a chance a motorist will hit them. Splitting the cycle lane well in advance so that there is a left turn and straight ahead (to the right of the left lane) might be a solution. Personally, I just take the lane before the junction.

This morning I used cycle lanes for the first time in a long time. On a few occasions, motorists pulled up beside me and then started merging across. As soon as Back to the right way of taking the lane from tomorrow on.

The only real solution I can think of is a warning for cyclists to take the lane if going straight on, and a camera for left turning traffic that if they don't indicate, or cut someone up, they get fined, heavily.

The only solution is

• remove the dangerous metal barrier
  
• build a protected cycle lane (Janette Sadik-Khan http://www.jsadikkhan.com/ did this in New York by building temporary lanes, which became permanent when the residents found they liked the quiet, lack of pollution, eyes-on-the-street and increased commerce for shops and cafes)

magicbastarder

i know it's great suggesting work for other people to do, but have irish cycling or the dublin cycling campaign considered a 'cyclist friendly' award or recognition for companies? or suggested cycling facilties as part of the calculation in some of these 'great places to work' competitions which the corporates like to enter?

the place i work for - and i'm not naming it here - is very good; secure, swipe access lockup for the bikes, showers in the basement, lockers provided, and they've even boxed off outlets from some of the A/C units to create a 'drying room', so you can hang wet kit up in the morning and it's dry (or drier) when you don it again in the evening.

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know it's great suggesting work for other people to do, but have irish cycling or the dublin cycling campaign considered a 'cyclist friendly' award or recognition for companies? or suggested cycling facilties as part of the calculation in some of these 'great places to work' competitions which the corporates like to enter?

the place i work for - and i'm not naming it here - is very good; secure, swipe access lockup for the bikes, showers in the basement, lockers provided, and they've even boxed off outlets from some of the A/C units to create a 'drying room', so you can hang wet kit up in the morning and it's dry (or drier) when you don it again in the evening.

What a brilliant idea!

Wishbone Ash

average_runner wrote: »

There is a good few turning left lanes only in Dublin and not just for buses....

You've missed the point.

Many of the 'left turn only' lanes are created in the space that would otherwise be a bus lane. Buses (and other vehicles permitted to use bus lanes) may enter the 'left turn only' lane when they intend going straight ahead - i.e. a cyclist going straight ahead is usually permitted to be in that lane.

Wishbone Ash

magicbastarder wrote: »

....the place i work for - and i'm not naming it here - is very good; secure, swipe access lockup for the bikes, showers in the basement, lockers provided, and they've even boxed off outlets from some of the A/C units to create a 'drying room', so you can hang wet kit up in the morning and it's dry (or drier) when you don it again in the evening.

The irony!

I work for the country's largest health care provider. Part of their remit is to promote healthy lifestyles yet there is absolutely no provision of any kind made for cyclists in my workplace. There isn't even an outdoor bike rack never mind an indoor secure area and washing facilities consist of a small wash handbasin.

....and I'm considered to be some sort of oddball for cycling to work.

magicbastarder

How old is the building? Most of the facilities I mentioned were in the blueprints when the building was designed, but to be fair most shouldn't be that hard to retrofit.

Doctor Bob

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know it's great suggesting work for other people to do, but have irish cycling or the dublin cycling campaign considered a 'cyclist friendly' award or recognition for companies? or suggested cycling facilties as part of the calculation in some of these 'great places to work' competitions which the corporates like to enter?

the place i work for - and i'm not naming it here - is very good; secure, swipe access lockup for the bikes, showers in the basement, lockers provided, and they've even boxed off outlets from some of the A/C units to create a 'drying room', so you can hang wet kit up in the morning and it's dry (or drier) when you don it again in the evening.

The Campaign used to present a Golden Pedal award for cycle-friendly workplaces, but I haven't heard mention of it for a couple of years now.

There's also the Smarter Travel Awards, for which employers and universities that participate in the Smarter Travel Workplaces and Smarter Travel Campus programmes run by the NTA are eligible.

https://www.smartertravelworkplaces.ie/resources-events/smarter_travel_awards/award-categories-2015-draft/

tomasrojo

Doctor Bob wrote: »

The Campaign used to present a Golden Pedal award for cycle-friendly workplaces, but I haven't heard mention of it for a couple of years now.

There's also the Smarter Travel Awards, for which employers and universities that participate in the Smarter Travel Workplaces and Smarter Travel Campus programmes run by the NTA are eligible.

https://www.smartertravelworkplaces.ie/resources-events/smarter_travel_awards/award-categories-2015-draft/

I think Temple Street Children's Hospital got an award for facilitating cycling. Think it was the Golden Pedal. I noticed an award on the wall when in with one of the kids one day a few years ago.

ted1

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The irony!


....and I'm considered to be some sort of oddball for cycling to work.

In fairness you probably have a 200km commute !!

CramCycle

ted1 wrote: »

In fairness you probably have a 200km commute !!

To be fair the 200km is not the reason people think WA is an oddball :pac:

Corca Baiscinn

Thread re next Wednesday's protest has been closed so I'm adding to this one which is about the last protest to remind people with an interest in cycling that the protest is a lunchtime one assembling outside Minister Ross'es office in Leeson Lane at 12 45 and leaving for the Dail at 1pm. To the posters who say the time is unsuitable, no time suits everyone, there has been a lunchtime protest by the Greens and an evening one, now another lunchtime one and one at a weekend on another occasion. To those saying any protest is a waste of time, you are entitled to your view of course but others feel that activism is one way of trying to bring about change. Cyclists don't have powerful paid Lobby Groups to bend the ear of Government. There are no fancy offices and legions of paid staff to make our case. We are badly served by current transport policy so heck an attempt to come together in camaraderie and solidarity and make our case is worth a try . There is a thread here re George Hook's crazy rant on Newstalk this morning so if peoplelike him have the ear of the nation we need to make our voices heard too

I was at the last one it was great to see so many like minded people. Can't make this one but hopefully these protests are just the start of something bigger.

AndrewJRenko

Could a friendly moderator please update the title of this thread to reflect the date/time of next week's protest - Wednesday 22nd Feb 2017 12.45pm at Dept Transport, Leeson Lane?

cython

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Could a friendly moderator please update the title of this thread to reflect the date/time of next week's protest - Wednesday 22nd Feb 2017 12.45pm at Dept Transport, Leeson Lane?

Discussion could also have been kept in the original thread for this specific protest (as opposed to the more recent one that was locked due to meandering whataboutery): http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102548624