Choosing not to vaccinate

Samaris · 28-09-2016 9:32pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but can somebody please explain how an un-vaccinated child can pose a risk to a vaccinated child, if the child is vaccinated does it not make them immune?

The unvaccinated child doesn't -in theory- pose any risk to the vaccinated child, although really, even with a vaccination, you don't want to stick a vial of plague up your nose either!

Where the issue comes up is the risk posed to "society" that the child meets. There will always be some people who -cannot- be vaccinated; they may have the risk of bad effects, they may have other contraindications, such as an immunodeficiency problem (I'm shakier on the exact wherefores, perhaps the immunologist could correct me if I've gone wrong there). But as I understand it, the problem lies there rather than the direct Child UnVax meets Child Vax and infects them.

lazygal · 28-09-2016 9:32pm

Anne_cordelia wrote: »

Genuine question - what risk would your children be at?

I want their parents to know we don't support non vaccinated children being around ours and when I can reduce the risks I will. There are immune system issues in our family and some vaccines had to be given later than normal and we also chose extra vaccines like chicken pox, so when waiting for them I wasn't taking any chances like close contact with children who weren't vaccinated.

Neyite · 28-09-2016 9:33pm

sullivlo wrote: »

Marry me.

I call dibs on old maid of honour

.

Please present your Proof of HSE vaccine schedule to the usher to ensure entrance into the venue.

28-09-2016 9:35pm

Maggie007 wrote: »

I have thanks. Have family members working in the health system and in the actual production of vaccines so i know all there is to know

Well. what else do you need to know?
You seem to have it all sussed, so no idea why you are posting on here.

And yes, creches quite rightly look for vaccination proof for the health of all kids in their care.

PlamenDon · 28-09-2016 9:35pm

My 7 year old son has no vaccinations, he's the healthiest child I've come across, I don't think he's ever had a cold, never been to the doctor, only time he was in hospital was when he broke a bone.

livedadream · 28-09-2016 9:36pm

Neyite wrote: »

sullivlo wrote: »

Marry me.

I call dibs on old maid of honour .

Please present your Proof of HSE vaccine schedule to the usher to ensure entrance into the venue.

Dibs on flower girl... I'll wear my bubble just in case of non vaccinated persons though

M5 · 28-09-2016 9:36pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

My 7 year old son has no vaccinations, he's the healthiest child I've come across, I don't think he's ever had a cold, never been to the doctor, only time he was in hospital was when he broke a bone.

Sample of 1 versus 100's of years of trials. Yep, you made the right call clearly!

You can forgo the flu vaccine and not get the flu.

However polio is not the flu

lazygal · 28-09-2016 9:36pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

My 7 year old son has no vaccinations, he's the healthiest child I've come across, I don't think he's ever had a cold, never been to the doctor, only time he was in hospital was when he broke a bone.

Please keep him away from mine. Your sample of one with zero control samples is meaningless.

livedadream · 28-09-2016 9:36pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

My 7 year old son has no vaccinations, he's the healthiest child I've come across, I don't think he's ever had a cold, never been to the doctor, only time he was in hospital was when he broke a bone.

And the poor ****er who has to sit next to him at school?
Plague?
Polio?

TheIronyMaiden · 28-09-2016 9:37pm

Guys, I don't think this has been posted yet but a very good article from The Journal on the controversy around the HPV vaccine: http://jrnl.ie/2970847

Bicycle · 28-09-2016 9:37pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance, but can somebody please explain how an un-vaccinated child can pose a risk to a vaccinated child, if the child is vaccinated does it not make them immune?

A vaccination against a disease is like having a mild dose of the disease without the side effects. But even if you get a full blown attack of the disease you don't always become immune to it.

I had chicken pox, measles and german measles twice. Even had chicken pox and measles at the same time - I'm sure my Mum loved me then

I have reacted to two vaccines - smallpox: I developed cowpox (dodgy batch) and have a scar under my chin and tetanus: I'm allergic to horse serum.

I also have a teenager on the autistic spectrum.

And I am passionately pro vaccine. I've seen people become very ill from avoidable illnesses.

If anyone wants to see the reality of non-vaccination, then just look at the death records on www.irishgenealogy.ie I had a great grandfather and an uncle die from TB and another great grandfather die from tetanus.

kirving · 28-09-2016 9:39pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

My 7 year old son has no vaccinations, he's the healthiest child I've come across, I don't think he's ever had a cold, never been to the doctor, only time he was in hospital was when he broke a bone.

And not all drunk drivers kill people. Were talking about RISK here, and your poor 7 year old has a higher risk of contracting a possibility life changing disease - and it will be your fault if he does.

brightspark · 28-09-2016 9:40pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

My 7 year old son has no vaccinations, he's the healthiest child I've come across, I don't think he's ever had a cold, never been to the doctor, only time he was in hospital was when he broke a bone.

Just a tenth of his "three score and ten" (but hopefully much more)

You do know that many of the so called childhood diseases often have much worse consequences when caught as an adult?

Neyite · 28-09-2016 9:41pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

My 7 year old son has no vaccinations, he's the healthiest child I've come across, I don't think he's ever had a cold, never been to the doctor, only time he was in hospital was when he broke a bone.

Do you care that he could pass a deadly disease to a child with a chronic illness in his school that could kill them? Actually, don't bother answering, I think I already know your answer.

M5 · 28-09-2016 9:41pm

How could you live with yourself if your child got polio and infected 2/3 kids in their class?

PlamenDon · 28-09-2016 9:45pm

lazygal wrote: »

Please keep him away from mine. Your sample of one with zero control samples is meaningless.

No problem, pleasure.

livedadream wrote: »

And the poor ****er who has to sit next to him at school?
Plague?
Polio?

What?, plague, polio, what the fuck are you talking about?, my son's immune system is better tuned than any vaccinated kid, the human immune system is better able to fight disease than any vaccine, take yourself and your sister as examples, what good did your vaccines do for you?

Hmmzis · 28-09-2016 9:46pm

Anne_cordelia wrote: »

I'm not anti vaccine and my child is vaccinated against all the normal diseases. However I won't be getting the chicken pox or rotavirus vaccinations as I think the severity of the illness isn't enough to warrant the risk of the vaccine.

Never had rotavirus as far as I'm aware of but I did get chickenpox at the age of 16. Let me tell you one thing if you don't read any further - get your kids infected with that **** as soon as possible. The older they get the worse the symptoms will be.

As for my experience. Most definitively the worst three weeks of suffering I've ever had. The first couple days weren't that bad, some blister-like pimples, quite itchy though, some mild fever, but not much to complain about. Then the fever started going up - fast. Hit about 41 degrees, fever medication didn't help much, never went below 40 for six days straight. Sleep was not quite the same either, if it actually could be called sleep, more like some semi-conscious hallucination inducing state of utter misery (no, the hallucinations were not fun).

That all was accompanied by more and more of those bloody blisters, they were everywhere, every bit of skin was covered in them, even the insides of my eyelids were covered with them. Oh, and if I scratched off one of those things that meant a scar for life, have loads of them still almost 20 years later, thankfully was disciplined enough not to scratch any on my face.

After about 10 days or so the fever started to 'normalise' and only hit up to 40 in the evenings and in the mornings it was an almost civilised 38-38.5 degrees. At least sleep started to improve. The blisters were still full on raging, the original ones got replaced by new ones. That all continued for another week or so.

After about three weeks the fever had gone down to normal levels in the mornings and only jumping to 38 in the evenings. The old scabbed blisters had started to outnumber the new ones but they were still itching like mad, even with all the pills I was getting. If I recall it correctly the last scabs fell off after about two months since the first one appeared.

That was just the acute phase of Chickenpox, it has a nasty habit of leaving one with liver damage. Not in all cases though. Thankfully for me it wasn't permanent. The last few years the checks have been all completely within the healthy range.

So yeah, either get your toddler infected with that thing as early as possible or get the vaccine. My one had chickenpox when he was 2yo but if the GP offers a vaccine for it I'll take it without a doubt, just to be sure, to be sure.

zozimus · 28-09-2016 9:48pm

I think you should be arrested for child endangerment. Not just your child, but all any kids on whom vaccines don't work who rely on herd immunity.

The trouble is, if you are so 'hard of thinking' that you believe whatever conspiracy woo you read online about vaccines, then there's really no reasoning with you.

So we're back to arresting you and having your child 'care' supervised and checked by an actual responsible adult.

Anne_cordelia · 28-09-2016 9:49pm

Hmmzis wrote: »

Never had rotavirus as far as I'm aware of but I did get chickenpox at the age of 16. Let me tell you one thing if you don't read any further - get your kids infected with that **** as soon as possible. The older they get the worse the symptoms will be.

As for my experience. Most definitively the worst three weeks of suffering I've ever had. The first couple days weren't that bad, some blister-like pimples, quite itchy though, some mild fever, but not much to complain about. Then the fever started going up - fast. Hit about 41 degrees, fever medication didn't help much, never went below 40 for six days straight. Sleep was not quite the same either, if it actually could be called sleep, more like some semi-conscious hallucination inducing state of utter misery (no, the hallucinations were not fun).

That all was accompanied by more and more of those bloody blisters, they were everywhere, every bit of skin was covered in them, even the insides of my eyelids were covered with them. Oh, and if I scratched off one of those things that meant a scar for life, have loads of them still almost 20 years later, thankfully was disciplined enough not to scratch any on my face.

After about 10 days or so the fever started to 'normalise' and only hit up to 40 in the evenings and in the mornings it was an almost civilised 38-38.5 degrees. At least sleep started to improve. The blisters were still full on raging, the original ones got replaced by new ones. That all continued for another week or so.

After about three weeks the fever had gone down to normal levels in the mornings and only jumping to 38 in the evenings. The old scabbed blisters had started to outnumber the new ones but they were still itching like mad, even with all the pills I was getting. If I recall it correctly the last scabs fell off after about two months since the first one appeared.

That was just the acute phase of Chickenpox, it has a nasty habit of leaving one with liver damage. Not in all cases though. Thankfully for me it wasn't permanent. The last few years the checks have been all completely within the healthy range.

So yeah, either get your toddler infected with that thing as early as possible or get the vaccine. My one had chickenpox when he was 2yo but if the GP offers a vaccine for it I'll take it without a doubt, just to be sure, to be sure.

Yes I think if she hasn't got it naturally in the next few years I'll get the vaccine before she's a teenager as I know it gets worse the older you are. I meant to include that in my post but got distracted.

PlamenDon · 28-09-2016 9:49pm

Neyite wrote: »

Do you care that he could pass a deadly disease to a child with a chronic illness in his school that could kill them? Actually, don't bother answering, I think I already know your answer.

I will answer, if the child is vaccinated how on earth can my child kill him?, so what you and others are saying is that vaccines are useless.

I know that, hence, no vaccination, healthier kid, simple.

eviltwin · 28-09-2016 9:50pm

I think full up to date vaccinations should be a requirement of entry into preschool / school.

livedadream · 28-09-2016 9:51pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

livedadream wrote: »

And the poor ****er who has to sit next to him at school?
Plague?
Polio?

What?, plague, polio, what the fuck are you talking about?, my son's immune system is better tuned than any vaccinated kid, the human immune system is better able to fight disease than any vaccine, take yourself and your sister as examples, what good did your vaccines do for you?

Well my sister had ****ing CANCER you troll so I'm pretty sure there's no ****ing vaccine for that . unless you read about it on Facebook of course.
And your son is a carrier that could carry an illness due to him not being vaccinated that could kill another child with either a weakened immune system or that had to have delayed jab so a million different reasons but selfish twats that think oh sure my child is healthy I don't care about other people do i? And for me my vaccine saved me from weeks in the hospital and infertility so I'm ****ing delighted my mom isn't a selfish twat hippy who believes things she reads on Facebook. Jog on back to narnia mate with the rest of the nutters please.

M5 · 28-09-2016 9:51pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

No problem, pleasure.

What?, plague, polio, what the fuck are you talking about?, my son's immune system is better tuned than any vaccinated kid, the human immune system is better able to fight disease than any vaccine, take yourself and your sister as examples, what good did your vaccines do for you?

misplaced arrogance, anger when challenged. Classic anti-vaxer! You know absolutely nothing about vaccines clearly but yet you think you are an expert??

PlamenDon · 28-09-2016 9:54pm

zozimus wrote: »

I think you should be arrested for child endangerment. Not just your child, but all any kids on whom vaccines don't work who rely on herd immunity.

The trouble is, if you are so 'hard of thinking' that you believe whatever conspiracy woo you read online about vaccines, then there's really no reasoning with you.

So we're back to arresting you and having your child 'care' supervised and checked by an actual responsible adult.

Haha, that's laughable, arrest me, lol, I care enough about my child to protect him from life changing vaccines, I put the time and effort in and realised that vaccinated children die of the disease they are vaccinated against, they are 1000% more likely to get every bug going, vaccination lowers immunity, fact.

livedadream · 28-09-2016 9:54pm

M5 wrote: »

PlamenDon wrote: »

No problem, pleasure.

What?, plague, polio, what the fuck are you talking about?, my son's immune system is better tuned than any vaccinated kid, the human immune system is better able to fight disease than any vaccine, take yourself and your sister as examples, what good did your vaccines do for you?

misplaced arrogance, anger when challenged. Classic anti-vaxer! You know absolutely nothing about vaccines clearly but yet you think you are an expert??

She thinks my sister wasn't helped in fighting cancer, because she had vaccines.... so anti vaxers now think cancer is cured by vaccines can't wait for so many people fighting this disgusting disease to be celebrating tomorrow with the news!!

PlamenDon · 28-09-2016 9:55pm

M5 wrote: »

misplaced arrogance, anger when challenged. Classic anti-vaxer! You know absolutely nothing about vaccines clearly but yet you think you are an expert??

I know more than you after researching it over a couple of years, I didn't just decide not to vaccinate, I actually studied it.

M5 · 28-09-2016 9:55pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

Haha, that's laughable, arrest me, lol, I care enough about my child to protect him from life changing vaccines, I put the time and effort in and realised that vaccinated children die of the disease they are vaccinated against, they are 1000% more likely to get every bug going, vaccination lowers immunity, fact.

so the millions that died of measles, polio etc were more immune than the ones who dont die now?

M5 · 28-09-2016 9:56pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

I know more than you after researching it over a couple of years, I didn't just decide not to vaccinate, I actually studied it.

how could you possibly know that?

Furthermore, you know more than the entire medical community? More than the 1000s of studies, more than the 100's of thousands of immunologists?

livedadream · 28-09-2016 9:57pm

PlamenDon wrote: »

M5 wrote: »

misplaced arrogance, anger when challenged. Classic anti-vaxer! You know absolutely nothing about vaccines clearly but yet you think you are an expert??

I know more than you after researching it over a couple of years, I didn't just decide not to vaccinate, I actually studied it.

Please stop telling people with PhDs in immunology or that work for pharma companies that your research on Facebook and the dark depths of the paranoid web is valid it's ridiculous and just makes you seem even more mental than usual. Studying Facebook and Wikipedia is not research.

PlamenDon · 28-09-2016 9:57pm

livedadream wrote: »

She thinks my sister wasn't helped in fighting cancer, because she had vaccines.... so anti vaxers now think cancer is cured by vaccines can't wait for so many people fighting this disgusting disease to be celebrating tomorrow with the news!!

What are you talking about?, nothing is cured by vaccines.

Choosing not to vaccinate

Comments