John Connors: The Travellers

mynamejeff

end of the road wrote: »

incorrect. look i get it, some don't like the truth but that's not my fault. i can only provide the information.



much if not most of the traveling community were born in ireland and are irish, so how can they claim to be something they are all ready.



we all ready have laws to deal with anyone involved in criminality. if the gardai can't or won't enforce it and the government won't give them the funding and resources to do it then it must be made an election issue when the time comes around again and demand a fully funded and resourced garda force..

what information have you provided ? ever ?

one at a time so

why should travellers benefit from massive amounts of state funding when they contribute nothing in return ?

the only travellers i know who are not on the dole are the lads who have had it stopped for fraud

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Pity Connors wouldn't do a programme on the amount of tax they contribute to keep the country going, something the rest of us have to do.

why would he waste his time. so some can rant on social media and share a few pics? it's not relevant to you. it's only relevant to the revenue who are charged with collecting our taxes and who's job it is to enforce the relevant legislation.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Or maybe if they pay to have their rubbish taken away like everyone else or just leave it to the council like they do in Galway city, sure just let it pile up until it's a health issue.

Or how they can place bets of 20 k on bare knuckle fights.

I won't even go into the level of criminality going on on a population of less than 50 thousand.

Or that they don't encourage their kids to stay in school and go to college which in 2016 is necessary to get a well paid job.

they're are all ready plenty of laws existing to deal with all those apart from people going to college, which rightly is one's choice. if the authorities won't enforce the law that's on them.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No John won't touch on those unpopular subjects because it wouldn't fit in with his view that Travellers are so opressed.

the reason he won't touch on it is the types who use any excuse to traveler bash. no point in fueling them. bigotry toards a group is a form of oppression.

SM35

[QUOTE

why should travellers benefit from massive amounts of state funding when they contribute nothing in return ?
[/QUOTE]

Well one third of all working people don't pay any income tax - therefore why should they get any state funding???!!

Roger Hassenforder

SM35 wrote: »

Well one third of all working people don't pay any income tax - therefore why should they get any state funding???!!

^^are they not paying USC, PRSI...

meanwhile 84% of travellers are unemployed...
even worse:
3.1% continued their education past the age of 18 compared to 41% of the general population
17.7% of Travellers received no formal education of any kind, compared to 1.4% of the general population*.

but apparently its a Traveller Employment Strategy we need as opposed to a Traveller education strategy...

*2011 CSO

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

why would he waste his time. so some can rant on social media and share a few pics? it's not relevant to you. it's only relevant to the revenue who are charged with collecting our taxes and who's job it is to enforce the relevant legislation.

It is very relevant when this same person and travellers are whinging and coming over all poor mouth and disadvantaged while driving large new 4WD vehicles and new trucks and vans and stories of huge sums of money being gambled on illegal bare knuckle fights or illegal sulky races.

they're are all ready plenty of laws existing to deal with all those apart from people going to college, which rightly is one's choice. if the authorities won't enforce the law that's on them.

That is one part of the post you responded to, what about all the other points you are ignoring like the massive amounts of cash gambled on bare knuckle fights and sulky races? Not sending their children to school to perpetuate the cycle of lawlessness and criminality? Theft of scrap and illegal fires to extract the copper from the scrap and stolen cable?

the reason he won't touch on it is the types who use any excuse to traveler bash. no point in fueling them. bigotry toards a group is a form of oppression.

He won't touch on those points because in 2016 there is no reason or excuse to have little children sleeping in a wooden box on the side of a road and older boys/teens sleeping packed into the back of a van because the girls are sleeping in the wooden box.

The traveller lifestyle and culture is about one thing and that seems to me to be the man being the head of the halting site and taking on all challengers. the fittest is king of the travellers and his word is gospel. fall out with him and you have to move away. they basically live in the dark ages a primitive existence of violence and criminality for the men and fear and subservience for the women.

The traveller population in prisons is far higher than the rest of the population just as the majority of women in shelters are travellers and their children.

Something has to be done and fast!

SEPT 23 1989

29% of travellers have been through the Irish prison system

Roger Hassenforder

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

29% of travellers have been through the Irish prison system

"Traveller men are between five and 11 times more likely than other men to be imprisoned, while Traveller women face a risk of imprisonment as much as 18 to 22 times higher than that of the general population"

source

suicide_circus

There is certainly a level of chicken and the egg. A huge amount of settled people wouldn't employ a traveller because of their reputation for rampant criminality, which then results in more travellers engaging in black market activity. However, I don't think it is up to wider society to fix travellers or to change to accommodate them, the onus is the on the 0.5% of the population to get with the program and work within the framework the rest of us do. They're quick to criticise the state and settled people but even quicker to grab the handouts and services they provide.

Roger Hassenforder

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

"Traveller men are between five and 11 times more likely than other men to be imprisoned...

Interesting point.

African Americans are 6 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites in the States.

Do you think it has something to do with genetics and some people just being bad, or could matters like centuries of discrimination and marginalisation have any bearing?

http://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is very relevant when this same person and travellers are whinging and coming over all poor mouth and disadvantaged while driving large new 4WD vehicles and new trucks and vans and stories of huge sums of money being gambled on illegal bare knuckle fights or illegal sulky races.

that's up to the revenue and cab to sort out.

foggy_lad wrote: »

That is one part of the post you responded to, what about all the other points you are ignoring like the massive amounts of cash gambled on bare knuckle fights and sulky races? Not sending their children to school to perpetuate the cycle of lawlessness and criminality? Theft of scrap and illegal fires to extract the copper from the scrap and stolen cable?

i all ready stated they are covered by legislation and the gardai must enforce the legislation. the people must demand a fully funded and resourced gardai. so i didn't ignore it.

foggy_lad wrote: »

He won't touch on those points because in 2016 there is no reason or excuse to have little children sleeping in a wooden box on the side of a road and older boys/teens sleeping packed into the back of a van because the girls are sleeping in the wooden box.

The traveller lifestyle and culture is about one thing and that seems to me to be the man being the head of the halting site and taking on all challengers. the fittest is king of the travellers and his word is gospel. fall out with him and you have to move away. they basically live in the dark ages a primitive existence of violence and criminality for the men and fear and subservience for the women.

The traveller population in prisons is far higher than the rest of the population just as the majority of women in shelters are travellers and their children.

he won't touch on it for the reason i stated above. nothing else.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Something has to be done and fast!

bits and bobs are being done. the particular things you would like done however are against the law and the conventions we have signed up to.

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting point.

African Americans are 6 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites in the States.

Do you think it has something to do with genetics and some people just being bad, or could matters like centuries of discrimination and marginalisation have any bearing?

http://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Do white poor people in America not face discrimination an marginalisation?

All this has come from playing the victim and blaming the imaginary bogeyman for everything, because it simply can not be their fault.

Roger Hassenforder

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting point.

African Americans are 6 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites in the States.

Do you think it has something to do with genetics and some people just being bad, or could matters like centuries of discrimination and marginalisation have any bearing?

http://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

sticking to travellers, as mentioned above, its a chicken and egg scenario.

their nolens volens lack of continuing in education is exacerbating the problems; limiting employment/further education opportunities, compounding ill health issues and low life expectancy, lack of wellness manifesting as high suicide rates, intratraveller violence, domestic violence, poverty, and establishing criminality and fraud as an acceptable means of income.

Who is responsible for mitigating/obviating this? certainly all of us have a part, but ultimately the responsibility is theirs. Put your kids in school, and keep them there.

Are centuries of discrimination and marginalisation a result of their (statistically probable) actions/behaviour, or is their behaviour a result of their discrimination and marginalisation? - A bit of both, more the former I think.

Anecdotally of course, but any of my or my colleagues' numerous interactions with members of the travelling community have not been very positive.
to best understand traveller discrimination, one should remove oneself from the law library, and head west into rural Ireland (or funnily enough South Dublin!)
to experience the positive impact of modern traveller culture, and its culturally enriching benefits.

My rural farming relatives, now well into their 80s will (almost fondly) reminisce about the "tinkers" that used to call; casual labourers, some craftsmen and tradesmen, musicians and entertainers. Stay a while and move on. A very different version of the traveller they now fear will call to them at night.

While not all apples are bad in the barrel, and an apple starts off as a lovely flower (does that answer your genetic predisposition?), the proverbial barrel of travellers seems to have a disproportionate number of rotten apples.

Sam Kade

There were a few members of connors ethnic group parked outside CUH in Cork yesterday and were clamped. They went away and came back with a consaw and removed the clamp and none of the authorities went near them :rolleyes:

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting point.

African Americans are 6 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites in the States.

Do you think it has something to do with genetics and some people just being bad, or could matters like centuries of discrimination and marginalisation have any bearing?

http://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Do you as an Irish guy feel the need to go out and commit crimes from the centuries of discrimination and marginalisation your forefathers went through?

lyza

I just want to tell you this story my daughter told me I thought it was so funny. In work one day as a hairdresser she was doing a traveller girls hair for a wedding, they were talking about how hard it is for them to get a place for the reception. My daughter said why dont they buy their own pup and they could hold all their parties there. The girl said ah shur you couldn't they would only wreck the place. 😂

Little CuChulainn

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting point.

African Americans are 6 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites in the States.

Do you think it has something to do with genetics and some people just being bad, or could matters like centuries of discrimination and marginalisation have any bearing?

http://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Travelers segregated themselves from normal society. Black people were enslaved. I think you are a bit off with trying to run a parallel.

Sweetemotion

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Travelers segregated themselves from normal society. Black people were enslaved. I think you are a bit off with trying to run a parallel.

Ahh man. I hope I never find myself in a court house in Kerry with a court appointed solicitor. :eek:

laoch na mona

clearly some of these posters haven't bothered watching the show or if they did ignored most of it. The contributors including retired social workers pointed out how the early attempts to 'solve the itinerant problem' resulted in a generation of travellers who were encouraged/forced to settle and as a result lost key aspects of their culture like traditional skills/nomadism/language but still haven't been accepted by wider society. Obviously this was going to create an underclass with a abnormally high rate of crime.

In some cases the efforts to assimilate travellers involved excessive brutality in industrial schools. We have to be realistic and look at the conditions which have lead to travellers being associated with criminality which is basically the same as other disadvantaged groups... the goal in society is to make money, children in disadvantaged communities see criminals as the only members of the community making a decent living.

That doesn't excuse it, there is still personal responsibility and ethics but ultimately the best solution is to ensure crime is not the only way for people to get ahead.

Obviosly people feel strongly about this because no one wants to be the victim of crime, but I'm speaking from experience here I've grown up in a rural area with a large enough traveller population and a higher than average crime rate. Most of the crime(particularly theft) in the area is committed by settled people. The travellers are a bit rough, some of them are big into petty theft (shoplifting which in fairness is a favourite past time for disadvantaged teens from all backgrounds)

At the end of the day John Connors offers a positive example to young travellers, and is highlighting an interesting aspect of Irish history. I can't see what is wrong with that.

If travellers like John Connors do something positive and try to help their community people attack them, if they go robbing and live on the dole like people expect them do people attack them... no matter what people attack them for being travellers

laoch na mona

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Travelers segregated themselves from normal society. Black people were enslaved. I think you are a bit off with trying to run a parallel.

the native american incarceration rate is 38% higher than the national average, all disadvantaged groups (regardless of how they have became disadvantaged) are over represented in prison populations

Travellors originated at some point in history(not sure when I've heard different time periods ranging from the famine to medieval times, interestingly there is some sources which describe large sections of the pre-famine poor living a semi nomadic lifestyle) and up until the government policies of the 1960s were a part of Irish society

riddles

They travelled around originally to provide temporary labour in line with the harvest seasons and some tin smith repairs etc. Itinerant labour.
The advent of technology and a more affluent throw away society rendered them redundant.
The same as any role in any business.
The notion that they are entitled to travel wherever they like is complete bunkum. If some collection of bleeding heart liberals in the EU designated them an ethnic group then let them fund them. It probably costs on average 50k per traveler for us the tax payer to maintain this wondrous and rich culturally diverse group.

andekwarhola

Are we comparing the historical plight of African Americans with travelers now?

I must have missed the memo where the segregation of the former from wider society was self-elective for 'cultural' reasons.

topper75

riddles wrote: »

If some collection of bleeding heart liberals in the EU designated them an ethnic group then let them fund them.

The British rushed to do that. It was a mistake I hope we never repeat here. We are a republic. The British, not being so, aren't unaccustomed to 'special' groups with privileges beyond the rest of society . In Ireland a citizen is equal to all other citizens and we don't do special designations, or at least ought not.

Sam Kade wrote: »

There were a few members of connors ethnic group parked outside CUH in Cork yesterday and were clamped. They went away and came back with a consaw and removed the clamp and none of the authorities went near them :rolleyes:

That is wrong for authorities not to follow up. It perpetuates the 'special' thing.

Jesus. wrote: »

I think he means when gypsies want to go into an establishment the customers don't want them there.

But that is also clearly wrong. I don't like snobbery.

Same rights and same obligations for EVERYONE is the only way. If that was followed rigourously in the country, there would be no need for any thread on here.

Feisar

After John Connors's interviews with Ryan Tubridy I didn't/wouldn't bother watching the show.

As for my interactions with Travelers they have been either neutral or negative.

whisky_galore

laoch na mona wrote: »

clearly some of these posters haven't bothered watching the show or if they did ignored most of it. The contributors including retired social workers pointed out how the early attempts to 'solve the itinerant problem' resulted in a generation of travellers who were encouraged/forced to settle and as a result lost key aspects of their culture like traditional skills/nomadism/language but still haven't been accepted by wider society. Obviously this was going to create an underclass with a abnormally high rate of crime.

In some cases the efforts to assimilate travellers involved excessive brutality in industrial schools. We have to be realistic and look at the conditions which have lead to travellers being associated with criminality which is basically the same as other disadvantaged groups... the goal in society is to make money, children in disadvantaged communities see criminals as the only members of the community making a decent living.

That doesn't excuse it, there is still personal responsibility and ethics but ultimately the best solution is to ensure crime is not the only way for people to get ahead.

Obviosly people feel strongly about this because no one wants to be the victim of crime, but I'm speaking from experience here I've grown up in a rural area with a large enough traveller population and a higher than average crime rate. Most of the crime(particularly theft) in the area is committed by settled people. The travellers are a bit rough, some of them are big into petty theft (shoplifting which in fairness is a favourite past time for disadvantaged teens from all backgrounds)

At the end of the day John Connors offers a positive example to young travellers, and is highlighting an interesting aspect of Irish history. I can't see what is wrong with that.

If travellers like John Connors do something positive and try to help their community people attack them, if they go robbing and live on the dole like people expect them do people attack them... no matter what people attack them for being travellers

The community has to adapt to a changing Ireland, like it or not.
Trades like coopering, thatching, basket weaving are nearly extinct or niche industry/hobby activity. Should barrel coopers or blacksmiths be considered ethnic groups? Waiting for handouts and scavenging on the margins just because their traditional revenue earner is obsolete in modern day Ireland is hardly going to endear them to hard-working settled people.

If they want to preserve their langauge, they're going to have to do that themselves. Languages have become extinct before, it's a pity, but no-one died as a result.

Re the industrial schools, I'm afraid Travellers do not have a monopoly on the suffering and the brutality that went on there as 'repression'. Irish society as a whole has been dealing with the fallout for the last 20-30 years.

Nomadism is all well and good perhaps if you have hippy type parents with PhD's and schooling their kids on the road. If you seriously want the best for your kids and get at least a foothold in having a stake in society, arsing around to every horse fair in the country and staying in a different halting site every month is hardly the way forward, esp if the parents are barely educated themselves.

whisky_galore

To add to that, 'traditions', since when has sulky racing become an age-old tradition, and the animal cruelty issues that come with that?
Racing on hard roads, abandoned animals that have to be rounded up and put out of their misery?

end of the road

riddles wrote: »

They travelled around originally to provide temporary labour in line with the harvest seasons and some tin smith repairs etc. Itinerant labour.
The advent of technology and a more affluent throw away society rendered them redundant.
The same as any role in any business.
The notion that they are entitled to travel wherever they like is complete bunkum. If some collection of bleeding heart liberals in the EU designated them an ethnic group then let them fund them. It probably costs on average 50k per traveler for us the tax payer to maintain this wondrous and rich culturally diverse group.

they're are no bleeding hearted liberals in the EU. if they are designated an ethnic group then we will be paying.

whisky_galore wrote: »

To add to that, 'traditions', since when has sulky racing become an age-old tradition, and the animal cruelty issues that come with that?
Racing on hard roads, abandoned animals that have to be rounded up and put out of their misery?

all ready covered under the law. have you made enforcement of the law an election issue at any stage when politicians have called to the door?

whisky_galore

end of the road wrote: »

all ready covered under the law. have you made enforcement of the law an election issue at any stage when politicians have called to the door?

I can't recall the last time one actually called, all they do now is clutter up my postbox with junk mail.

You know as well as I that animal welfare is waaay down the list of priorities here.

laoch na mona

whisky_galore wrote: »

The community has to adapt to a changing Ireland, like it or not.
Trades like coopering, thatching, basket weaving are nearly extinct or niche industry/hobby activity. Should barrel coopers or blacksmiths be considered ethnic groups? Waiting for handouts and scavenging on the margins just because their traditional revenue earner is obsolete in modern day Ireland is hardly going to endear them to hard-working settled people.

If they want to preserve their langauge, they're going to have to do that themselves. Languages have become extinct before, it's a pity, but no-one died as a result.

Re the industrial schools, I'm afraid Travellers do not have a monopoly on the suffering and the brutality that went on there as 'repression'. Irish society as a whole has been dealing with the fallout for the last 20-30 years.

Nomadism is all well and good perhaps if you have hippy type parents with PhD's and schooling their kids on the road. If you seriously want the best for your kids and get at least a foothold in having a stake in society, arsing around to every horse fair in the country and staying in a different halting site every month is hardly the way forward, esp if the parents are barely educated themselves.

Obviously they have to adopt to change, but its clear that even when they do settle and send their children to school the discrimination continues, making it hard for travellers to get houses or jobs or places in schools for their children

On the point of industrial schools did you watch the show in it they clearly discuss how traveller children were over represented in these institutions and upon release still weren't accepted by settle communities, but thanks to their time in the care of the state had no sense of what it was to be a traveller other then that it was a bad thing

goose2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Sounds like something from a hundred years ago, "first you crush their identity...".

Either way there are legal obligations to provide halting sites.

Actually it reminds me of slum clearances. Sure there was great fun and community spirit in tenements. There was also pneumonia, tuberculosis, typhoid, etc., and overall people were better off being moved out.

goose2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting point.

African Americans are 6 times more likely to be imprisoned than whites in the States.

Do you think it has something to do with genetics and some people just being bad, or could matters like centuries of discrimination and marginalisation have any bearing?

http://www.naacp.org/criminal-justice-fact-sheet/

Perhaps it's both. You can't claim that all the problems are the white man's fault, any more than you can blame all of Ireland's problems on Churchill and the Famine and Cromwell.

itsawrap

Well apparently yes, and very much so, from some of the comments aired earlier.

The show is excellent ,very well made and enlightening albeit very sad .It makes me feel,as a settled person, very ashamed to belong to such a snobbish and cruel bunch of so called Christians.

Remember when our ancestors were denied the right to practice their religion and speak their language not so many years ago by the English. Have we not learned and should know only too well that the practice of discrimination and exclusion, in both deed and word, is not the way to go forward in a peaceful and all inclusive society.

I have no doubt in my mind that any of the people who have engaged in the discussion are probably and most likely to be the ones who would go out of their way to help anyone in need, settled or traveller, because if they didn't care they wouldn't have watched the show in the first place or contributed at all to the discussion.But as concerned citizens I would urge you to have a rethink on the attitude you display towards your fellow citizens and open your minds to afford everyone the same respect, allow travelling people the space and dignity to shake off the names, the character assassinations, the preconceived ideas, their very sad history and the opportunity to stand alongside the rest of the country, that is if they still feel we are worth standing alongside, in these quickly changing times.

People need to feel proud of who they are to want to be part of our society in a positive interactive way and our educators,parents and religious leaders can most definitely influence and facilitate this.

Go out into the day with an open heart and an open mind, be good to an indigenous people we are lucky to still have in our midst,listen to them, accept the differences between our cultures and learn from them.Be also aware when electing a TD that every citizens rights is on her/his agenda otherwise they are not the people you want running this country because exclusion could mean them today and you tomorrow.

We have a multinational society in Ireland now and it is fantastic to have so many wonderful peoples from all over the world here to enjoy and share our little, but abundantly generous, island.It was interesting to note that at least two of the people on the show said that they were treated better in England than they had been in Ireland so lets not make people leave our great country to feel they are worth something.The cruel treatment of the past cant be undone but by treating the travelling community equally in all things and respecting their culture and cultural needs and traditions will make sure the wrongs of the past are definitely never repeated.

I feel this has to keep being said and acted upon until a new day dawns on our relationship with, and attitudes towards, the travelling community.I look forward to learning more as the show continues.Well done to John Connors and his colleagues and team on their excellent work.

To finish and add to a note earlier made by feisar and give my opinion/experience which is that all of my interactions with the travelling community, both younger and older members and from my youth and maturity have always been very positive.

Galwayguy35

^^^^^^^^^^
I'd be interested to hear the reason you think we are lucky to have Travellers, I'm trying to think of something positive they add to the country but I'm drawing a blank on that one.

topper75

itsawrap wrote: »

be good to an indigenous people

I appreciate that your post is largely well-meaning, but this phrase was rather curious.

It left me feeling like some kind of Boer farmer whose entire wealth and privilege is built on exploitation of some kind of mythical first nation.

Richard Hillman

He was mouthing off yesterday on the Journal about one of the causes of the Berkeley incident down to the victims drinking. As soon as he said it he tried to backtrack on it because he knew he made a boo-boo. He seems very bitter about the outpouring of emotion for the Berkeley tragedy.

Skyfarm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^
I'd be interested to hear the reason you think we are lucky to have Travellers, I'm trying to think of something positive they add to the country but I'm drawing a blank on that one.

I will help you on that let's try, Music
And should you need more help lets try Arts..

mynamejeff

Skyfarm wrote: »

I will help you on that let's try, Music
And should you need more help lets try Arts..

a few massively state funded projects and some quilt sewing ?

a stop will ya :pac::pac:

you think that justifies never working a day in their life ??

Lt Dan

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Did it explain why 90 odd percent are on SW ? And yet still have them cars ?

Did they get to the part where they explain the need for the ritual of going to weddings , funerals or bapitisms with slash hooks and even guns?

Will they explain their need to have their feuds out in public at these events?

Or why funerals often need a garda escort at the grave? Or why they feel that it is okay for their young ones and even adults to stand in the graves of other deceased while they attend burial of their relative?

Or explain why hotels decide to close down during said events?

I am looking forward to the bit where they explain how they can fund huge family plots, and decorate it with ghastly tacky sculptures of horses, cars, even bottles of whiskey (yes, or Vodka as I have seen) and then only put one body in a grave that has the capacity for a whole family.

Hope it explains how they convince grave yard committees to keep these tombstones despite being contrary to the rules set out

While they are at it, maybe the programme can shed light into why , during family feuds, they think it is a great idea of go the "grave" of a fellow traveler and smash it up, even firing shots at it.

Lt Dan

foggy_lad wrote: »

+1

Considering they rarely drink and most don't smoke and their lifestyle would work out cheaper than many settled families they could well afford to save up for a car and insurance etc while on the dole or working wherever they can get some work.

Just because they get barred from many pubs, and often for good reason, do not cod yourself that they are somehow different to settled people that they do not drink or smoke . Up outta the garden

VinLieger

He tried to blame the council cus the fire brigade had to go to a further away fire hydrant to get water from.

The reason? The council had to weld the hydrant shut cus the residents were stealing so much water from it. He handily glossed over that small fact though. Nothings ever their fault as per the usual.

Skyfarm

mynamejeff wrote: »

a few massively state funded projects and some quilt sewing ?

a stop will ya :pac::pac:

you think that justifies never working a day in their life ??

i checked and the fureys never received state funding.

gctest50

Now what about the other 49995

Galwayguy35

Skyfarm wrote: »

I will help you on that let's try, Music
And should you need more help lets try Arts..

So you can't really think of anything at all.

Lt Dan

feargale wrote: »

I don't know how hard you had it, but let me tell you some things I witnessed as a kid in the fifties:
1. A traveller woman going into labour in a field at the side of the road.

Many settled people were not born in a hospital. They had a choice, bring the woman to the hospital / "Care Center".

feargale wrote: »

2. A traveler kid aged six or seven playing with other traveller kids in a dump, without a trousers, his genitals exposed to the world.

Even People in the "slum tenements" in Dublin and Limerick had some dignity and ensured that their children at least were clothed.

feargale wrote: »

3. Two travellers came to my rural parish to do a few weeks' work for a farmer. They caused no trouble during the time of the work. The day the work was done they did some drinking and walked up the street shouting angrily,

And? Public Disorder. Cops would have a word with anyone

feargale wrote: »

I would think because they were shortchanged in their pay.

You think, or you know? Anyone who ever worked in a pub, shop, chipper would be familiar with that scheme.

feargale wrote: »

Two guards arrested them

For what? Public disorder?

feargale wrote: »

and while they were being walked to the garda station one of them queried the arrest on two or three occasions

Politely , did he?

feargale wrote: »

, and on each such occasion was beaten severely with a baton.

Gardaí are thick f'ers the best of times. How is that different to the treatment settled people would receive when they questioned authority?

feargale wrote: »

Later that evening I heard very distressed crying coming from the garda station. I was about a quarter of a mile away from the station at the time.

You heard distressed crying from a Garda Station that was a quarter of a mile away from you? Wow, that must have been very loud and / or you have fantastic hearing. You sure you did not mistake that for cows?

feargale wrote: »

I have no wish to condone criminality by travellers. But boards.ie typically sets out the case in black and white.

People on this site pointed out COMMON examples of their behaviour, that has absolutely no excuse for. Such excuses would never be accepted if such behaviour was committed by settled people.

feargale wrote: »

If you look at the Australian aborigines you will see a very similar pattern, a people virtually destroyed by abuses such as families broken up, children forcefully taken from their families etc.

1. How is that related to your earlier yarn about travelers committing public disorder offences and being arrested.? Settled families were also torn apart and separated and put into homes. Women who had children out of wedlock were sent away

2. The idea of Settled Travelers being seen as more Native to many Settled Irish people is a load of horse manure. Rubbish of the highest order, and a severe lack of knowledge of Irish history. Many people that are now Settled had descendants, who like some of the travelers had their lands taken from them , but they never resorted to the "culture" of the Traveler.

feargale wrote: »

resulting today in communities plagued by alcoholism and criminality.

No such thing as self discipline eh? Something happens, you fall from grace, blame someone else.

feargale wrote: »

You see a bit of that in Ireland's settled community too. I bet that every drug dealer in Dublin had a grandfather coming out of a factory on Friday with a pay packet.

How much would you bet? "Every" drug dealer? Why even utter the words drug dealer and traveler in the same discussion. The latter are not all druggies

feargale wrote: »

Machines and neoliberal economics rendered them no longer useful. And those who invented the machines weren't quite as inventive socially. I've heard a big employer say - leave them redundant, more trouble than they're worth, and give them some money to keep them out of trouble. Nothing about self esteem there.

What a load of tosh. You haven't a clue boy.For a start, many a traveler have proven to be pretty damn good at the auld entertrapeurism, however humble it is ; whether in buying and selling goods or horses, craft work and even up to being big time legitimate enough business men. Problem is, some are good at avoiding the paper work and paying of tax.Excellent even. Would put the politicians to shame.

To their credit, many travelers have not allowed their backgrounds, their family failings or lack of conventional education get in the way of their ability to be useful , at least for their family.

It is 2016. Education is free for all , and whatever problems that they may have getting a spot in a school, they will find one if they look hard enough. The days that they drop out before the Junior Cert are not acceptable either.

There is always someone ready with the namby pamby wishy washy ready made excuse for their failures.

Tigger

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^
I'd be interested to hear the reason you think we are lucky to have Travellers, I'm trying to think of something positive they add to the country but I'm drawing a blank on that one.

you clearly don't enjoy watching bare knuckle boxing vids on you tube as much as i do

gctest50

Richard Hillman wrote: »

He was mouthing off yesterday on the Journal about one of the causes of the Berkeley incident down to the victims drinking. As soon as he said it he tried to backtrack on it because he knew he made a boo-boo. He seems very bitter about the outpouring of emotion for the Berkeley tragedy.

Any word from him on causes of Carrickmines tragedy ?

Interfering with meters again ?

http://bit.ly/2eoIgy8

"Our electrical inspector went up to the site this week and found most of it was actually live," said Ms Allen, who said previous attempts to meter the power supply to the site had resulted in the meters being interfered with

Galwayguy35

Tigger wrote: »

you clearly don't enjoy watching bare knuckle boxing vids on you tube as much as i do

Watched the video of two of them scrapping outside Dunnes here in Galway.

That's the "culture" we're expected to pay for.

laoch na mona

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Watched the video of two of them scrapping outside Dunnes here in Galway.

That's the "culture" we're expected to pay for.

because no settled people ever fought outside dunnes :rolleyes:

lawlolawl

laoch na mona wrote: »

because no settled people ever fought outside dunnes :rolleyes:

Yeah, settled scumbags do it.

Well done Travellers, you are at the same level as settled scumbags.

Galwayguy35

laoch na mona wrote: »

because no settled people ever fought outside dunnes :rolleyes:

Show me so where settled people gather in the middle of the day and place bets on 2 fools throwing slaps at each other in the car park of a shopping centre.

I''ll be waiting for times and dates that this occurred whenever you're ready.

laoch na mona

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Show me so where settled people gather in the middle of the day and place bets on 2 fools throwing slaps at each other in the car park of a shopping centre.

I''ll be waiting for times and dates that this occurred whenever you're ready.

You mentioned a fight outside dunnes in galway not an organised bare knuckle match

sounds like boxing/kickboxing/mma albeit with a different rule set and venue. . Believe it or not bare knuckle fights are not that different from more mainstream martial pursuits


If consenting adults want to fight in car parks thats their business, they'l only hurt themselves