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Certified Sick Leave

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  • 30-09-2016 8:36pm
    #1
    fade out
    Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭


    I am wondering is there a limit on certified sick leave? I am attending hospital appointments maybe 4 in a month and may require some surgery soon enough although would only miss a 2-3 days after.


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    #2
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    I think after 4 weeks you get ratted out to medmark by the principal


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    #3
    strawberrie
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭strawberrie


    Yes there is a limit. Think it's 90 days over rolling three year period before your pay is cut in half. Then a further length before it is cut altogether. There are allowances for serious illness.
    If you are sick the days can add up very quickly, especially as weekends are counted.
    Check out http://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Breaks-Leave/ for more info. They have a new book out today.


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    #4
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    I think after 4 weeks you get ratted out to medmark by the principal

    What sort of a statement is that? This is governed by circular letters in black and white.

    Ratting out? You need a day off when you're starting to sound like the teenagers you're teaching.


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    #5
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    fade out wrote: »
    I am wondering is there a limit on certified sick leave? I am attending hospital appointments maybe 4 in a month and may require some surgery soon enough although would only miss a 2-3 days after.

    You have 3 months full pay and 3 months half pay on a rolling period of 4 years. You should be well within that once your recoverey goes okay.

    Depending on where you are in relation to the doctor or hospital you can take a part daybif that suits and you're worried about clocking up days.


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    #6
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    man_no_plan wrote: »
    What sort of a statement is that? This is governed by circular letters in black and white.

    Ratting out? You need a day off when you're starting to sound like the teenagers you're teaching.

    A principal has the right to refer you to medmark at 4weeks. His/her discretion. If they like you they won't if they don't like you they will. I believe 'ratted' is the appropriate description for the latter behaviour.


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    #7
    strawberrie
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭strawberrie


    Not true. On the OLCS a medmark referral number is needed to process any claim over four weeks. Hardly optional!
    judeboy101 wrote: »
    A principal has the right to refer you to medmark at 4weeks. His/her discretion. If they like you they won't if they don't like you they will. I believe 'ratted' is the appropriate description for the latter behaviour.


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    #8
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    A principal has the right to refer you to medmark at 4weeks. His/her discretion. If they like you they won't if they don't like you they will. I believe 'ratted' is the appropriate description for the latter behaviour.

    Are you saying you should be allowed to take as much sick leave as you like without question then?


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    #9
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    man_no_plan wrote: »
    Are you saying you should be allowed to take as much sick leave as you like without question then?

    If its medically certified, there should be no need to be dealt with by the cold hands of a multi-nationals' doctors. No one can honestly say that an employers doctor will treat you completely fairly (they are paid by the government). There are plenty of horror stories here on boards about employees sent to company doctors.


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    #10
    judeboy101
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭judeboy101


    strawberrie wrote: »
    Not true. On the OLCS a medmark referral number is needed to process any claim over four weeks. Hardly optional!

    Actually, the principal has the right to rat you out to medmark BEFORE the 4weeks under discretionary powers.


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    #11
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Less of the 'ratting out', thanks. It does not do your argument any favours.


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    #12
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,962 ✭✭✭amacca


    strawberrie wrote: »
    If you are sick the days can add up very quickly, especially as weekends are counted.
    Check out http://www.education.ie/en/Education-Staff/Services/Breaks-Leave/ for more info. They have a new book out today.

    Is that still true? I always found that ridiculous.....saturday and sunday not official working days in most places a lot of (even though people do put in voluntary time on them) so how can they be justified as counting for days of work missed?

    When they decided to "reform" the sick leave system how come they didn't clean that anomaly up as well?


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    #13
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    amacca wrote: »
    Is that still true? I always found that ridiculous.....saturday and sunday not official working days in most places a lot of (even though people do put in voluntary time on them) so how can they be justified as counting for days of work missed?

    When they decided to "reform" the sick leave system how come they didn't clean that anomaly up as well?

    Yes, they count weekends and holidays, so if you find yourself out sick at the end of May, be sure to get certified fit to return to work as soon as possible. It is because we are paid a salary.

    On the flip side, a day of strike would see you only docked 1/14 of your fortnightly pay as opposed to 1/10. The last strike day cost me about €35 net.


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    #14
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,311 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    man_no_plan wrote: »
    Are you saying you should be allowed to take as much sick leave as you like without question then?

    That's why the new limits were introduced. Too many were taking three months a year. There's income protection available through the unions. Costs about a tenner a week though...


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    #15
    acequion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,883 ✭✭✭acequion


    endacl wrote: »
    That's why the new limits were introduced. Too many were taking three months a year. There's income protection available through the unions. Costs about a tenner a week though...

    To be honest in my many years teaching in my current and former schools I never saw anybody abuse the system. I'm not saying that nodody abused it but I think the "too many" in your comment is a big exaggeration.The vast majority of teachers are and have always been committed professionals.

    I also feel that posters have been a bit over the top in reaction to judeboy 101's comment about principals and medmark. Sadly many principals are no longer supportive as collegiality is gradually being replaced by a more managerial structure.

    However,as somebody who is rarely sick,can I ask when you say can be referred to medmark after four weeks do you mean four weeks of continuous sick leave or four weeks of occasional days leave?


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    #16
    strawberrie
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭strawberrie


    Taken from Medmark website

    Non-discretionary referrals:
    • From 1 January 2014, any teacher/special needs assistant on sick leave who has 4 weeks (28 days) continuous or cumulative sick leave absence in a 12 month rolling period must be referred to the Occpational Health Service.


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    #17
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    acequion wrote:
    To be honest in my many years teaching in my current and former schools I never saw anybody abuse the system. I'm not saying that nodody abused it but I think the "too many" in your comment is a big exaggeration.The vast majority of teachers are and have always been committed professionals.


    Up until very recently, it wasn't uncommon for teachers to take a year 'sick' before retirement. I'd call that abuse.


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    #18
    seavill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    That has been happening since I was on my first TP 12-13 years ago. That's nothing new


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    #19
    mahoganygas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭mahoganygas


    amacca wrote:
    When they decided to "reform" the sick leave system how come they didn't clean that anomaly up as well?


    For a salaried position it is not an anomaly. In fact it's very common in other professions.


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    #20
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,222 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I must have missed the sick before retirement boat.

    From what I hear from my colleagues, the new system puts a lot of pressure on those with genuine chronic or serious illnesses in terms of time for appointments etc.. Sledgehammer to crack a nut as usual. Malingerers should have been called out without stressing genuine people on chemo etc..


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    #21
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    implausible wrote: »
    Up until very recently, it wasn't uncommon for teachers to take a year 'sick' before retirement. I'd call that abuse.

    It was a regular thing in my school until 4-5 years ago. We even had teachers call in for a chat and tea at lunchtime who were on sick leave for the year, who had a lovely tan after a couple of weeks holiday in Spain in September.


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    #22
    icebergiceberg
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭icebergiceberg


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    It was a regular thing in my school until 4-5 years ago. We even had teachers call in for a chat and tea at lunchtime who were on sick leave for the year, who had a lovely tan after a couple of weeks holiday in Spain in September.

    Did they give any information as to the nature of their illness?


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    #23
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    icebergiceberg wrote: »
    Did they give any information as to the nature of their illness?

    Nature of their illness??!!! They were a year away from retirement, they weren't sick. It was common knowledge.


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    #24
    icebergiceberg
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭icebergiceberg


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Nature of their illness??!!! They were a year away from retirement, they weren't sick. It was common knowledge.

    I must be getting very naive and very stupid too.

    Did they actually tell you they weren't sick?

    How did they get medical clearance?

    Dodgy doctors?


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    #25
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    icebergiceberg wrote: »
    I must be getting very naive and very stupid too.

    Did they actually tell you they weren't sick?

    How did they get medical clearance?

    Dodgy doctors?

    Well when someone says in April/May 'I'm going to be sick in September' I think that's enough really. As for doctors I can't answer that one only that I assume there are doctors out there who will issue medical certs without investigating too much.

    Put it this way, there were genuine cases of teachers being off sick on a long term basis, eg 6 months and we knew it was genuine and ones that we knew were just passing the last year until they officially retired.


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    #26
    deiseindublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭deiseindublin


    I've never heard of or seen a teacher going sick before retirement.


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    #27
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,962 ✭✭✭amacca


    mahoganygas wrote: »
    For a salaried position it is not an anomaly. In fact it's very common in other professions.

    Bull****...salaried or not you should only be recording as missing a days work if a an actual work day has been missed.

    Common or not its nonsensical imo....and I call it an anomaly because it makes no sense whatsoever to me......so while they were addressing other perceived inadequacies why wasn't that addressed as well?

    Give me some actual reasons why non working days are recorded in the total of days missed that go beyond "it happens in other jobs"


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    #28
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,962 ✭✭✭amacca


    deiseindublin wrote: »
    I've never heard of or seen a teacher going sick before retirement.

    Could have been a culture at one time or more likely in some areas.... or maybe both?

    Also never seen it in any of the places I taught or even the schools I went to (and that was a long time ago)


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    #29
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Tis fraud though..


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    #30
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    Maybe it was confined to certain areas or sectors (my experience is mostly VEC), but there was an "entitlement" to one year in four sick and some teachers were very blatant about it. Perhaps in other schools, staff and students just assumed the person had retired already; unless the teacher made it common knowledge, very few staff would know if s/he was sick or retired.

    Some teachers got permanent jobs out of covering 'sick' for a year and then getting the vacancy created by the retirement.

    Spurious is right about the sledgehammer to crack a nut though. Having employees endure the stress of financial worries on top of something like cancer is horrible, as is forcing someone back to work before s/he is fit.


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    #31
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,382 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    implausible wrote: »
    Maybe it was confined to certain areas or sectors (my experience is mostly VEC), but there was an "entitlement" to one year in four sick and some teachers were very blatant about it. Perhaps in other schools, staff and students just assumed the person had retired already; unless the teacher made it common knowledge, very few staff would know if s/he was sick or retired.

    Some teachers got permanent jobs out of covering 'sick' for a year and then getting the vacancy created by the retirement.

    Spurious is right about the sledgehammer to crack a nut though. Having employees endure the stress of financial worries on top of something like cancer is horrible, as is forcing someone back to work before s/he is fit.


    I would agree completely on the entitlement thing, not just for those leading into retirement, but just in general.

    In terms of knowing if someone was sick or retired, oh we knew the difference. If a person has retired they have resigned their job, you hear about stuff like that. Much different if they have gone on sick leave for a year. Also the person replacing them has a contract based on sick leave or their own hours. It's very clear cut. In the example I gave above the teacher coming in knew the teacher was going to be out on sick leave for the year, and that they were retiring afterwards and that the job would be theirs the following year.


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