Dismounting at pedestrian crossing

Fingers Mcginty

I'm going straight through this junction in Julianstown and find it difficult to get across as it's a busy road.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.667167,-6.2776482,3a,75y,22.76h,83.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_XPS1OVkOLaGLrF8qAi6vA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Question is if i use the pedestrian crossing on my left do I need to dismount and walk across with the bike?

Jawgap

Fingers Mcginty wrote: »

I'm going straight through this junction in Julianstown and find it difficult to get across as it's a busy road.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.667167,-6.2776482,3a,75y,22.76h,83.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_XPS1OVkOLaGLrF8qAi6vA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Question is if i use the pedestrian crossing on my left do I need to dismount and walk across with the bike?

I know the junction, and strictly speaking yes, but I doubt there'd be much issue with hopping on to the path, activating the crossing and cycling across (yes, I know it's against the law).......best not to do that at pace when the yummy-mummies are dropping their kids off

Fingers Mcginty

Jawgap wrote: »

I know the junction, and strictly speaking yes, but I doubt there'd be much issue with hopping on to the path, activating the crossing and cycling across (yes, I know it's against the law).......best not to do that at pace when the yummy-mummies are dropping their kids off

Yeah that's the problem. It would mean cycling a little bit on the path....and that's definitely against the law is it? I thought that was still a shady area ie parents being allowed to cycle with their kids on paths.
I've dismounted before at those lights and embarrassingly slipped on the road with the cleats.

Jawgap

Fingers Mcginty wrote: »

Yeah that's the problem. It would mean cycling a little bit on the path....and that's definitely against the law is it? I thought that was still a shady area ie parents being allowed to cycle with their kids on paths.
I've dismounted before at those lights and embarrassingly slipped on the road with the cleats.

It is against the law to be sure, but I'd have thought the chances of being caught were minimal and the chance of getting a fixed penalty even less.

If it was me I'd do it, just not at pace and not when it's full of kids......although when sprog delivery is ongoing the traffic tends to be well and truly screwed (and the lights tend to be inconstant operation) around there so you'd probably have no trouble getting through.

Fingers Mcginty

"sprog delivery"
I wouldn't be in the area at those times unfortunately as i have my own kids to pickup from a different school.It's a poxy junction to get through at the best of times.

Wishbone Ash

Why not stay on the road, turn left for a few metres, activate the lights while remaining on the road, and then cross to the side of the pedestrian crossing. No law being broken then as far as I know.

(I know the junction well as work sometimes brings me there. Turning right from that side road can be difficult in a car).

tomasrojo

Jawgap wrote: »

It is against the law to be sure, but I'd have thought the chances of being caught were minimal and the chance of getting a fixed penalty even less.

Chances of getting a fixed-penalty notice are actually zero, as things stand, as it's not one of the listed offences.

It is illegal though, so you could go to court, but it's unlikely. Funnily enough, it was discussed on another thread only yesterday. My personal attitude is that if there are any pedestrians (or Gardaí) using it or waiting to use it, you should walk the bike out of courtesy. Other than that, I can't see any problem with it. The city is full of pedestrian crossings where it is legal to cycle across (bike traffic lights have been added), and there's often no substantial difference between these ones where it's legal and the usual ones.

DirkVoodoo

Either dismount and walk, or hop up and cycle on the grassy verge. I really don't have an issue with bikes on footpaths, as long as they are at walking pace and in control, something you rarely see!

Cycling slowly with control is a good skill to have.

NamelessPhil

Take it as an opportunity to improve any CX skills that you have by dismounting, throwing the bike over your shoulder and legging it across the crossing. Admittedly you are probably wearing the wrong cleats and you might look like Bambi on ice, but props for mad skillz!

HivemindXX

tomasrojo wrote: »

Chances of getting a fixed-penalty notice are actually zero, as things stand, as it's not one of the listed offences.

There is the catch all 'riding without reasonable consideration' so not zero in my opinion. Pretty close to it though.

Whether something is wrong, whether something is illegal or whether you have any chance of getting penalised are three different issues.

Cycling on the footpath is illegal, it is not in any way a grey area.

If you are particularly obnoxious and a guard sees you there is a good chance you would get a FPN for it, but if there is nobody around then you almost certainly won't.

Whether something is wrong is quite subjective, most people would agree that barging through a bunch of pedestrians at full tilt is wrong but crossing a footpath slowly with care when there are no pedestrians is not.

steamengine

Fingers Mcginty wrote: »

I'm going straight through this junction in Julianstown and find it difficult to get across as it's a busy road.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.667167,-6.2776482,3a,75y,22.76h,83.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_XPS1OVkOLaGLrF8qAi6vA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


Question is if i use the pedestrian crossing on my left do I need to dismount and walk across with the bike?

If you turn yourself into a pedestrian by walking and wheeling your bike, your ass is covered everyway. Apart from the optics of a cyclist being seen to do the right thing, if you cycle across the pedestrian crossing then some smart ass motorist might very well consider you have no right to be there and proceed through the junction, particularly on a flashing amber.

I use a pedestrian crossing every other day on the Clontarf Road which is a similarly busy road and always cover my ass by walking across with the bike, unless there's no traffic or other pedestrians which is very rare.

Chuchote

It's not a question of whether it's legal or whether you'll be caught, it's whether it's courteous road use.
It sounds best either to hop off and wheel your bike, or to take Wishbone Ash's suggestion and "stay on the road, turn left for a few metres, activate the lights while remaining on the road, and then cross to the side of the pedestrian crossing" - though being careful of pedestrians crossing.

Skyfarm

It is not legal to cycle across so don't do it,as you suggested dismount and walk across

for those advocating breaking the law,it is that type of behaviour which has bikers up against motorists,pedestrians,etc etc,

Jawgap

Chuchote wrote: »

It's not a question of whether it's legal or whether you'll be caught, it's whether it's courteous road use.
It sounds best either to hop off and wheel your bike, or to take Wishbone Ash's suggestion and "stay on the road, turn left for a few metres, activate the lights while remaining on the road, and then cross to the side of the pedestrian crossing" - though being careful of pedestrians crossing.

It's a junction in pretty much a rural setting - aside from 90 minutes each day, the chances of there being anyone there to be discourteous too are remote.

Jawgap

Skyfarm wrote: »

It is not legal to cycle across so don't do it,as you suggested dismount and walk across

for those advocating breaking the law,it is that type of behaviour which has bikers up against motorists,pedestrians,etc etc,

It's also illegal, in most circumstances, to cycle without a bell

tomasrojo

By and large, I walk the bike by default, but there are times where it's inconvenient to walk the bike, especially the bakfiets which is MUCH easier to cycle than walk, and much more stable when ridden than when pushed.

The only pedestrian crossing I cross frequently on the bakfiets is awkward in several ways. The light tends to turn green for pedestrians almost immediately after pushing the button, but it's quite hard for me to squeeze between the neighbouring lamp post and the traffic light post and complete a hard right turn onto the crossing when not on the bike, even allowing the first three cars to break the light, as is traditional at pedestrian crossings. Then I have inadequate time to cross the road, turn the bike through another ninety degrees and remount the bike. So if there are no pedestrians around, I cycle it across. I still say: whom am I inconveniencing actually, in comparison to pushing the button and walking?

All My Stars Aligned

Find some of the posts on this thread hilarious.

The posters on 410 are so self righteous at times it's quite nauseating. They complain about how they are not shown respect from other road users yet seem happy to pick & choose the laws they wish to comply with.

Look forward to linking back to this thread in the future.

PeadarCo

All My Stars Aligned wrote:

The posters on 410 are so self righteous at times it's quite nauseating. They complain about how they are not shown respect from other road users yet seem happy to pick & choose the laws they wish to comply with.

Ah they're no different than Irish people in general. What's the difference between this thread and the one in after hours thats about warning people about speedo vans.

Excessive speed kills , cyclists cycling across pedestrian crossing when there's no pedestrians around( that's the general advice here) the only way they injurie anyone is if they fall off the bike themselves.

All My Stars Aligned

PeadarCo wrote: »

Ah they're no different than Irish people in general. What's the difference between this thread and the one in after hours thats about warning people about speedo vans.

Excessive speed kills , cyclists cycling across pedestrian crossing when there's no pedestrians around( that's the general advice here) the only way they injurie anyone is if they fall off the bike themselves.

The difference, at least as I see it, is that when reading this board you would get the impression that cyclists can do nothing wrong. Red lights are never broken, traffic laws are always adhered too.

I just find it amusing to see posters advising to disregard traffic laws when in other threads they come across so holier then thou.

eoghan84

as one of the lads was saying, this is a great opportunity for cyclocross dismount, run with the bike and remount on the other end.
if youve MTB cleats it's fine. How about it?

PeadarCo

All My Stars Aligned wrote:

The difference, at least as I see it, is that when reading this board you would get the impression that cyclists can do nothing wrong. Red lights are never broken, traffic laws are always adhered too.

Couple of points

Cyclists more than any group of road users can't be defined as one group. There's a huge variance in speeds between different people primarily due to the factor. There's a big difference between a kid with stabilizers and a racing cyclist.

Most people here have an interest in cycling so I'd say would be likely than the average cyclist to obey the rules of the road.

Thirdly the reason I mentioned the thread in after hours is that most Irish motorists see no issue with breaking the speed limit. Why do cyclists have to earn "respect" when other road users routinely break the law as well. There are various surveys where 80% plus of drivers admit to breaking the speed limit. I don't think I've ever seen a post here where saying cyclists don't break rules of the road.

Finally as the road safety statistics indicate there's a monumental difference between a cyclist breaking the rules of the road and drivers.

Chuchote

I didn't realise it was illegal to cycle across the road beside a pedestrian crossing. I normally dismount, but it seems rather an odd law. Anyone able to cite the actual Act?

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

The difference, at least as I see it, is that when reading this board you would get the impression that cyclists can do nothing wrong. Red lights are never broken, traffic laws are always adhered too.

I just find it amusing to see posters advising to disregard traffic laws when in other threads they come across so holier then thou.

Yeah, it's really tragic all those helpless cars crushed beneath our wheels.

tomasrojo

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

The posters on 410 are so self righteous at times it's quite nauseating. They complain about how they are not shown respect from other road users

Personally, I don't recall ever making this complaint. By and large, I'm quite happy with the amount of respect I get from everyone.

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

Look forward to linking back to this thread in the future.

It's a pretty unremarkable thread. I doubt you'll bother.

tomasrojo

eoghan84 wrote: »

as one of the lads was saying, this is a great opportunity for cyclocross dismount, run with the bike and remount on the other end.

Tricky with a bakfiets, but I like a challenge.

Chuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

Tricky with a bakfiets, but I like a challenge.

Especially with the kids and shopping in it.

Wishbone Ash

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

....The posters on 410 are so self righteous at times it's quite nauseating. They complain about how they are not shown respect from other road users yet seem happy to pick & choose the laws they wish to comply with....

You setting yourself up for a fall with that sort of talk!

When people refer to 'respect' they don't mean it in the normal sense of the word but respect for their lives. When was the last time a motorist was killed by a cyclist? I've been hospitalised 3 times while cycling following incidents caused 100% by drivers of motorised vehicles.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the location of the junction above. It's in a rural setting and there would be no need for the pedestrian crossing if motorists abided by the 50km/h limit there. Sadly many are doing twice that speed in my experience.

And for the record, I didn't advocate any illegal manoeuvres in my post.

tomasrojo

Actually, speaking of this general topic of using pedestrian crossings on a bike, did the traffic island in front of the IMMA in Kilmainham change after the revamp to that junction? It used to be legal to cycle across from the island towards the IMMA (bike traffic lights provided, sequencing identical to the pedestrian sequence), but it was never clear what you were supposed to do when you'd crossed. Were you allowed to then turn right and proceed towards the canal (which meant cycling through a green-man light on the other side of the junction)? Were you supposed to stop and wait for the main traffic lights to go green? If so where were you supposed to wait where you wouldn't be blocking the pedestrians?

Very odd junction. It really was just a pedestrian crossing with extra lights.

magicbastarder

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

I just find it amusing to see posters advising to disregard traffic laws when in other threads they come across so holier then thou.

did i miss the bit in this thread where people were openly planning a bank heist?

or are we still talking about someone taking their bike onto a path to activate a pedestrian crossing?

Chuchote

magicbastarder wrote: »

did i miss the bit in this thread where people were openly planning a bank heist?

or are we still talking about someone taking their bike onto a path to activate a pedestrian crossing?

What? Bank heist? I nominate Tomasrojo as the getaway cyclist; he has the best vehickle for the job. The rest of us can race into the bank giving the traditional cry, "Okay stickers, this is a fúckup".

tomasrojo

Chuchote wrote: »

What? Bank heist? I nominate Tomasrojo as the getaway cyclist; he has the best vehickle for the job. The rest of us can race into the bank giving the traditional cry, "Okay stickers, this is a fúckup".

I fear my reputation for lawlessness has been considerably exaggerated! Ok, I'll walk the bakfiets over the pedestrian crossing with no pedestrians from now on!

Macy0161

PeadarCo wrote: »

Thirdly the reason I mentioned the thread in after hours is that most Irish motorists see no issue with breaking the speed limit. Why do cyclists have to earn "respect" when other road users routinely break the law as well. There are various surveys where 80% plus of drivers admit to breaking the speed limit. I don't think I've ever seen a post here where saying cyclists don't break rules of the road.

13% admit to drink driving. 60% didn't even know the limit. It's about time the 40% who do know get the rest in hand to get the respect of other road users...