Quays route for cycleway agreed

Muahahaha

Looks like a good plan all things considered and certainly an improvement on the idea of using Benburb St for either cars or bicycles. Its a shame that the cycle track won't follow the riverside all the way but it is what it is.

Two immediate points stand out for me -

1) where cyclists are supposed to cross over from the buildings side to the riverside- this will cause conflict because some cyclists won't cross over and will instead stay in the bus lane and plough straight ahead. Rightly or wrongly this is going to create conflict with bus drivers, taxis, etc "we paid €20m for their cycle route Joe and they won't even use it, its a disgrace, etc"

2) An extended pedestrian boardwalk all the way from O'Connell Bridge down to Hueston Station is going to triple the current real estate available to the cities junkies. With Merchants Quay directly across the river it will be mayhem and as usual it will not be policed and will quickly turn into a free for all. Bonus points for junkies shooting up on the boardwalk directly outside the Four Courts and in the shadow of the Bridewell Garda station

Chips Lovell

You're allowed cycle in the bus lane

Muahahaha

Oh I know, but that won't stop taxis getting p1ssed off when people still use the bus lane instead of a €20m cycle track. Not saying it is wrong, just saying that I can see the plan of a cross over resulting in many cyclists not crossing over. Motorists lobby will then use that as a stick to beat cyclists with and as an argument not to invest in further segregated cycle lanes.

Chips Lovell

Even if it's all on one side of the road, there's still going to be some cyclists who'll use the bus lane if its more convenient for them.

Anyway, in my experience, the type of driver who complains about cyclists in the bus lane when there's a €20 million cycle lane next to it will also complain about cyclists in the bus lane when there's no cycle lane next to it. They're best ignored.

buffalo

Looking through the drawings, even the first fecking diagram has a cycle lane going up the inside of a left-turn lane, at the Criminal Courts (Infirmary Road/NCR). There appears to be some cross-hatching and an island, so I guess that implies separate signals for cyclists and waiting for a green light:



...which means I'm probably going to be one of the below:

Chips Lovell wrote: »

Even if it's all on one side of the road, there's still going to be some cyclists who'll use the bus lane if its more convenient for them.

...especially at the point where it swaps from one side of the road to the other if the signal isn't heavily favourable to cyclists.

Mercian Pro

These are the proposed crossovers from the building side to the river side of the quays. Presumably other traffic will be held back by traffic lights while cyclists cross sides.

The next step, which will hopefully happen soon, will be a non-statutory exhibition and consultation. Some changes may emerge from that before it goes for Part 8 planning to the Council or directly to Bord Pleanala as a strategic project. I suspect at best it will be well into 2020 before any physical work commences. A lot of work has gone into this proposal but it's still ridiculous that it has taken so long to get this far.

buffalo

Mercian Pro wrote: »

These are the proposed crossovers from the building side to the river side of the quays. Presumably other traffic will be held back by traffic lights while cyclists cross sides.

Two 90 degree turns, with some kerbing just to make sure you know your place. Has anyone involved in this project ever cycled!?

Mercian Pro

Knowing your place presumably means grade segregated cycle paths which is what most cycling campaigners have been lobbying for for ages.

As I'm sure you know, the red sections are at street level and not protected by kerbs so there'll be no problem cutting the corner and crossing the junction diagonally provided the lights are with you.

magicbastarder

Mercian Pro wrote: »

provided the lights are with you.

which brings this thread to mind:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057939049

buffalo

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Knowing your place presumably means grade segregated cycle paths which is what most cycling campaigners have been lobbying for for ages.

As I'm sure you know, the red sections are at street level and not protected by kerbs so there'll be no problem cutting the corner and crossing the junction diagonally provided the lights are with you.

What are the light grey bits beside the cycle lane here so?

Qrt

buffalo wrote: »

What are the light grey bits beside the cycle lane here so?

To be honest, a few 90 degree turns are a small price to pay for not being crushed cycling along the quays.

Mr. Grieves

buffalo wrote: »

Two 90 degree turns, with some kerbing just to make sure you know your place. Has anyone involved in this project ever cycled!?

I think a little bit of patience is a small price to pay for proper segregation, which is safest, and is what was being called for. Not everybody is a racing cyclist.

You do wonder how it'll work in practice.

tomasrojo

I suspect that hard-right turn to get to the river-side portion will end up being the equivalent of the Leeson St. bridge segment of the Grand Canal cycle route.

I have to look at this in more detail, but I'm at least relieved to see that putting cyclists onto a boardwalk is gone.

buffalo

Qrt wrote: »

To be honest, a few 90 degree turns are a small price to pay for not being crushed cycling along the quays.

Looks like someone knows their place already! If there's going to separate lights for cyclists, why can we not continue at a 45 degree angle across the junction to join the other side? It would be safer and suitable for cyclists of all abilities.

I'm generally welcoming of the scheme, but there is room for improvement. And if these pinch points are not addressed before construction, it'll be another 7-10 years before they are.

ted1

buffalo wrote: »

Looks like someone knows their place already! If there's going to separate lights for cyclists, why can we not continue at a 45 degree angle across the junction to join the other side? It would be safer and suitable for cyclists of all abilities.

I'm generally welcoming of the scheme, but there is room for improvement. And if these pinch points are not addressed before construction, it'll be another 7-10 years before they are.

Exactly, now is the time to address pinch points. And also to bring it up to 2.5m as opposed to 2m

Mercian Pro

ted1 wrote: »

Exactly, now is the time to address pinch points. And also to bring it up to 2.5m as opposed to 2m

Not quite "now" but certainly during the consultation and planning periods.

loyatemu

those 90 degree turns are a terrible idea, there could be large numbers of cyclists queueing up to cross sides at those points, turning sharply 90 degrees on a bike is awkward and slow, people will fall over. Classic road engineers solution.

I also think uni-directional lanes will just encourage salmoning, the old design was better in this regard. The success of the route will depend on how much traffic light priority cyclists get, if it's still much quicker to stay in the road/bus-lane then that's what many cyclists will do. As ever they've gone to a lot of time and effort to avoid discommoding any motorists or carpark owners.

RobertFoster

Does it say anywhere how the 90° controlled crossings will be controlled? Sensors, timing based, push buttons? I'd rather play with the busses and taxis than stop and push a button to go on straight.

The quays are one of my favourite areas to cycle. Hopefully it's not turned into a crowded narrow stop/start route like the Grand Canal track.

Qrt

RobertFoster wrote: »

The quays are one of my favourite areas to cycle.

I’ll hazard a guess and say you’re probably a very small minority.

jon1981

Qrt wrote: »

I’ll hazard a guess and say you’re probably a very small minority.

Agreed, if you're the daredevil kind I'm sure it's immense fun at rush hour.

I cycle the quays every day, most evenings you can't squeeze a fart up the north quay between the four court and Capel st bridge.

Muahahaha

Good to see the plans finally deal with the dangerous section of the quays, specifically Victoria Quay outside Guinness where an extra bus lane will be added in the centre of the road. Same with the bridge in front of Hueston, it is finally going to get a bus lane and actual road markings

Mercian Pro

From looking at a recording of the Council Traffic Committee meeting at https://t.co/2u6Mt1xr79, the consultation period should take place quite soon. Hopefully there will be no significant opposition to the plans and it will allow detail design to commence soon after. One member of the Committee was opposed to having island bus-stops where the cyclepath runs behind the stop but this was strongly defended by the DCC and NTA representatives. The possibility of delays at thre crossing over point near the Four Courts was raised and they admitted that they needed to look at this in more detail to avoid bike tailbacks. It was notable that one particular grumpy anti-cycling member missed the meeting and, no doubt, he will find plenty to complain about before too long.

I don't use the quays much at rush hours but, from seeing cyclists cross when I'm stopped at Church Street, there seems to be a higher proportion of faster "serious" cyclists on this route than on some other commuter routes. How the design will work for this group as well as for slower less experienced/ambititious cyclists will be one of the big challenges. A minimum width of 2.5m rather than the 2m proposed would seem to essential.

magicbastarder

i'm sure nearly all of you have seen this by now, but if not:

Plans For Soon To Be Abandoned Liffey Cycle Route Unveiled
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2019/04/04/plans-for-soon-to-be-abandoned-liffey-cycle-route-unveiled/

cdaly_

buffalo wrote: »

I reckon there's room to fit around 6 cars in the area between the stop line and the junction. It'll be interesting to see how the crossing bikes will filter between the stopped cars...

Grassey

cdaly_ wrote: »

I reckon there's room to fit around 6 cars in the area between the stop line and the junction. It'll be interesting to see how the crossing bikes will filter between the stopped cars...

I just looked at the bit below this on ODR bridge.... Cyclists turning RIGHT to head East along the QUAYS will queue in a slip lane to the LEFT of cyclists heading northbound in the rightmost lane!

That won't cause an ounce of confusion!

Chiparus

buffalo wrote: »

Looking through the drawings, even the first fecking diagram has a cycle lane going up the inside of a left-turn lane, at the Criminal Courts (Infirmary Road/NCR). There appears to be some cross-hatching and an island, so I guess that implies separate signals for cyclists and waiting for a green light:



...which means I'm probably going to be one of the below:



...especially at the point where it swaps from one side of the road to the other if the signal isn't heavily favourable to cyclists.

Where are all the gardai vehicles going to park?

cgcsb

I'm quite underwhelmed by the plan based on the drawings:

1)There has been 0 effort to integrate the cycle route into adjoining schemes i.e. bus connects.
For example the 2 way north-south cycleway proposed for queen street is replaced by one contra flow cycle lane

2)There's a proposal for a new cycle lane on Jervis St connecting to the liffey scheme but the new cycle lane is with-flow and runs on the same side as Jervis St car park, causing all sorts of conflict.

3) At junctions they've provided a left-to-turn-right cycle lane instead of just having a right turning cycle lane, a needless source of conflict.

4) there is no explanation offered as to why we are getting this mad cross over as opposed to just quay side cycling for the entire length of the route.

5) The cross over depends on all road users stopping before the stop line, an unknown phenomenon in this country.

ED E

Chiparus wrote: »

Where are all the gardai vehicles going to park?

Where's the nearest Dominos branch?

Chiparus

ED E wrote: »

Where's the nearest Dominos branch?

They use the cycle lane to park when attending court - ususally the one in the Phoenix park.

ED E

I was having fun at Rathmines AGS' expense.