New Irish pro Conti team (aka The Aquablue thread)

BikeRacer

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Will there be a closing down sale? I've actually warmed to navy kit recently and there's is relatively light in branding for a pro team

I'd be pretty slow in handing over money to them right now to be honest.

godtabh

godtabh wrote: »

A friend of mine got engaged to one of the AB senior management team on the eve of the annocment. Celebrations maybe muted!

This was more a comment on the wider nature of the team folding

mr spuckler

godtabh wrote: »

This was more a comment on the wider nature of the team folding

:pac:

I only read the alternative interpretation from it after you posted the clarification!

wowy

Shedite27 wrote: »

The Cycling Podcast have an interview with Rick Delaney on the episode to be released this evening

https://audioboom.com/posts/6991427-stage-7-puerto-lumbreras-pozo-alcon-vuelta-a-espana-2018

Starts about 20 mins in. It's everyone else's fault; the race organisers for not giving them races, the supplier for not giving them good equipment, Sniper cycling for not getting on board with his great merger proposal. The UCI get criticism too cos they don't do anything to help them with commercial/contractual queries or give any advice.

He gives out about having to pay race fees (he mentions €20k for Tour de Suisse and €10k for Amstel Gold). They surely couldn't have been a surprise. Does he think that races don't cost anything to run?

Staff have been given 1 months notice ("standard commercial practice"). He says all riders will be paid til 31st December. He says 5 riders have contracts for next year, he thinks 2 already have new "arrangements" for next year. If the other 3 can't get new contracts he says he'll honour their contracts.

Says the team hearing about it on social media is rubbish. He says he sent them an email 2 hours before the press release and spoke with the DS that morning who he says was due to have a conference call with the staff and riders that morning before the press release was to go out.

Says "I don't have an ego!". (?!?!?)

Won't comment on whether 3T threatened legal action about riding other bikes at the Tour of Britain. Says they were locked into bad contract and simply not feasible to continue with it.

Says the e-commerce business model is "working but hasn't got the volume".

The podcast were supposed to have an audio diary from Conor Dunne during the Tour of Britain, but instead he's going to do it during his mini-tour he's doing with Larry Warbasse this week.

Podcast host does agree with Delaney on the opaque nature of getting tour invites. Agrees that it's not clear at all about what teams are supposed to do to get invites.

Podcast put Delaney's complaints to 3T. 3T says that every team has mechanical issues, but that some teams are easier to deal with to resolve them. 3T says a lot of it is down to maintenance/upkeep of the bikes, says they sent maintenance team to ABS to guide/assist them in maintenance (inference seems to be that ABS were just bad at maintaining the equipment). 3T deny they made legal threats. 3T say with prospect of merger, combined team would have had 2 suppliers; 3T sought early termination of contract at end of this season and return of all equipment.

Podcast asked Sniper about press release re merger (Delaney had said the ABS release announcing the merger was approved by Sniper). Sniper obviously denied that, says both parties were working on releases in anticipation of deal, but did not agree with ABS version and did not agree with the early release.

Shedite27

wowy wrote: »

Says the e-commerce business model is "working but hasn't got the volume".

How is it working if it's not got the volume? That's the key metric

RobFowl

The sport is a better place without Rick Delaney

TGD

I’d say give Delaney a break until we see if he pays everyone. It’s hard to blame the guy for not throwing even more of his own personal money down the drain by sending teams to more races when the game is over. He has lost millions already. Businesses fail all the time and the workers suffer. This business failed in spite of everyone’s best efforts.

Inquitus

My biggest issue with this is the business plan was fatally flawed, they were never going to compete with the biggest online bike shops such as Wiggle, CRC etc. Without the economies of scale required, they would simply never be able to compete on price, range of equipment etc, and to add to that the shop design was poor. If I went to the bank with this sort of business plan I would be laughed out. At the end of the day given the online shop would never drive revenues, this venture was always down to how far into his own pocket Rick Delaney was wiling to go.

They did a number of unprofessional things, criticising 3T very publically, even if deserved, is no way to work with one of your bigger sponsors. The criticism of the ASO was never going to help with race invites. If he does pay everyone their dues, 1 months notice for the workers and 2019 contracts for riders who fail to find a new team, then at least it shows in the end he has done the right thing.

MPFGLB

TGD wrote: »

I’d say give Delaney a break until we see if he pays everyone. It’s hard to blame the guy for throwing even more of his own personal money down the drain by sending teams to more races when the game is over. He has lost millions. Businesses fail all the time and the workers suffer. This business failed in spite of everyone’s best efforts.

I agree with this

People on here posting all kinds of negativity about a man who put his own money into cycling and did noting more than get frustrated with the UCI, the race selection system and the lack of transparency in the sport.

Yet some fence sitters on here are holier than thou and feel hey have the right to castigate his good name ...the same people who wouldn't part with a penny i'd wager ...

Typical Irish antagonism towards their own especially if they have a bob or 2

MPFGLB

MPFGLB wrote: »

I agree with this

People on here posting all kinds of negativity about a man who put his own money into cycling and did noting more than get frustrated with the UCI, the race selection system and the lack of transparency in the sport.

Yet some fence sitters on here are holier than thou and feel hey have the right to castigate his good name ...the same people who wouldn't part with a penny i'd wager ...

Typical Irish antagonism towards their own especially if they have a bob or 2

I really don't believe that to be the case on here with Delaney. The problem most have is how he went about things publicly. I commend him for being critical of the system and trying affect change but there is a right way and a wrong way of going about it and not get peoples backs up. He didn't come across at all well in any of this or handle things in a way that didn't make him appear bitter and entitled.

on_the_nickel

Fair play to him if he pays the contracts, that would be a great gesture. But I don't agree that he should be commended for simply having a go and investing his own money into it.

When you start a business and have employees, you owe it to them to ensure due diligence is done - they've got families to feed and mortgages to pay. You need a proper sustainable business plan in place if you sign people on 2 year contracts and tell them there's budget for 4. Sourcing decent equipment can't be left to chance. Having to pay race fees can't be unexpected. A model of selling online cycling gear and getting wildcard invites was obviously flawed to anyone who thought about it and more was needed.

And then, although he was eating and sharing hotels with the riders and staff and says he was best mates with them, he tells them they're all out of a job by group email and sends his DS to the weekly call to handle the sh!t. Cowardly behaviour. I think that is why people are having a go - not begrudgery.

My hunch at the time they formed was that he loved the idea of hanging out with pros and had the money and thought why not - him spending so much time on races and training camps when very few other owners do suggests that was at least a big factor. And in fairness, no big deal, many would do it if they had the chance. But you can't then just bail when the going gets tough.

MPFGLB

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don't believe that to be the case on here with Delaney. The problem most have is how he went about things publicly. I commend him for being critical of the system and trying affect change but there is a right way and a wrong way of going about it and not get peoples backs up. He didn't come across at all well in any of this or handle things in a way that didn't make him appear bitter and entitled.

I totally disagree

He handled things as well as he could given he is not a saint just a human being
And I defy anyone else to not be frustrated and annoyed dealing with cycling structures, bodies and set up... and for that to not come across

People equating him to Tinkoff was way off and uncalled for ...only correlation was he invested his own money ....Tinkoff was on social media calling people names, using vulgar language and being sexist and racist

Delany was annoyed with others but it hardly the same..and I am sure if you invested money you'd want results ...only natural
What annoys me is what people have become judge and jury without any real evidence

I think its too harsh on him.... Maybe he could have handled things better but hell who couldn't at times and maybe he was naive ,,,but then again he only lost his own money..And he has given jobs to many for 2 years ...and is within his rights to stop
And he is honouring contracts even beyond 2018 if necessary
Sure there is an element of his ego..but hell tell me who is without ego in any sport,especially sports owners

This black and white view of human being and as I said holier than thou attitude of some leaves alot to be desired ..becasue given the money and the opportunity most people would behave the same if not alot worse

MPFGLB

MPFGLB wrote: »

I totally disagree

He handled things as well as he could given he is not a saint just a human being
And I defy anyone else to not be frustrated and annoyed dealing with cycling structures, bodies and set up... and for that to not come across

People equating him to Tinkoff was way off and uncalled for ...only correlation was he invested his own money ....Tinkoff was on social media calling people names, using vulgar language and being sexist and racist

Delany was annoyed with others but it hardly the same..and I am sure if you invested money you'd want results ...only natural
What annoys me is what people have become judge and jury without any real evidence

I think its too harsh on him.... Maybe he could have handled things better but hell who couldn't at times and maybe he was naive ,,,but then again he only lost his own money..And he has given jobs to many for 2 years ...and is within his rights to stop
And he is honouring contracts even beyond 2018 if necessary
Sure there is an element of his ego..but hell tell me who is without ego in any sport,especially sports owners

This black and white view of human being and as I said holier than thou attitude of some leaves alot to be desired ..becasue given the money and the opportunity most people would behave the same if not alot worse

No way did he handle any of this of this as well as he could have. A less proud man would have simply came out and been upfront about it and said, it's not working out as I expected and it's not viable for me to continue to plough money into to the project. No need for rest of what was reported and it would have been simply the end of yet another team of which there are many this season at pro conti level.

death1234567

As others have said the while business model was laughable and that's not being wise after the event. It's like something school kids would come up with. How could he possibly think a website like his would be profitable enough to sustain a world tour team? There's a reason wiggle only sponsor a women's team, because they don't have the money.

What's also laughable is his naivety about the world of pro cycling. He has a chip on his shoulder about invites but everyone knows how it works. You buy invites if you are not from the right country.

Delaney might be right about alot of the problems cycling has but he has lost any credibility. A fool and his money are easily parted.

neris

Some whinge fest that interview

TGD

death1234567 wrote: »

... A fool and his money are easily parted.

Just more begrudgery: if you have money like Delaney you are not a fool. Sure, you make mistakes in business - most successful business people do - but that doesn't equate to being a 'fool'.

guanciale

Delaney took a risk and it failed to pay off. That is what mostly happens in the world of entrpreneurialism. Good on him for taking the chance. I would say that the business model is not as daft as most others in pro cycling. His was dependant on website revenue, majority of others depend on sponsorship.
It is all a broken and unbiable model from a sustainable point of biew.

He has said salary committments will be honoured - what more do people expect.

I do not have any sympathy for pro riders either. The model has been unviable for ever. There is rarely if ever job security in cycling. Riders have signed up to work in a thoroughly stupid environment from a salary point of view. It is not a sensible economic decision but IMO a lifestyle choice. Fair play to them for following the dream, but what do people actually expect. What has happened to ABS riders has happened to thousands of others over generations.

Wishing it will not be like this wont change what is a poor and unstable business model for the sport.

I admire Dunne/Warbasse for having the resilience for getting on with something positive at what is a poor outcome.

1bryan

Now the curfew on transfer announcements has passed, let's see what happens. I'd imagine we'll know Dunbar's new team by the end of the week (in light of that tweet by one of the McQuaids about getting him a new derailleur). Dunne and Warbasse are doing the smart thing by bringing some attention to themselves. Doesn't seem to be a peep from any of the others, though a couple of the british lads made the long list for their worlds team.

lukegjpotter

I found this bargain in the Pre-loved AquaBlue section.

Himself and Larry seem to be having the craic on their No Go Tour , plenty of stuff on their twitter of the trip so far.

Good shot here where you can see Dunnes bike and easily compare it to the 3T Larry is on

neris

Adam blythe on the Bradley Wiggins podcast not holding back on slamming the 3T bikes as 1 of the issues for the team folding

RobFowl

It was well known that the bikes were rubbish and anyone here could tell you road racing on that few gears would be difficult if not down right stupid.
Delaney should have known better than agree a deal in the first place.
Also for him to pull the plug after 2 years when he had assured all that funding for 4 years was in place at such short notice was simply unprofessional and disrespectful.
I have the utmost sympathy for the riders and given the disgraceful lack of notice many will now suffer a premature end to their pro careers.

neris

neris wrote: »

Adam blythe on the Bradley Wiggins podcast not holding back on slamming the 3T bikes as 1 of the issues for the team folding

Podcast here https://audioboom.com/posts/6992511-simon-yates-takes-the-red-jersey-as-gc-battle-heats-up it's right at the start.

Macy0161

Haven't heard the Blythe interview but have listened to the Cycling Podcast one. It's not great listening, but if he stands by honouring the 2nd year of contracts riders have, and pays everyone else until the end of the year then I think that's fair enough. Plenty of teams have carried on racing without paying riders and staff, or gone bust early.

It was obviously a fit of pique regarding the Tour of Britain, however, no rider has any guarantee's to actually get picked to race, and lots of world and pro conti riders are out of contract at the end of the season.

I think some of the criticism on that is a bit harsh tbh - it'd be more cynical of him to insist that the ones on 2 year contracts ride in the hope they get contracts so he doesn't have to pay them for next year. Riders not sorted for next year were pretty much screwed at this stage anyway, and I haven't seen it suggested he'd made new offers to any of them.

c.p.w.g.w

Any many pro teams fold on average each year?

neris

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Any many pro teams fold on average each year?

not sure but they seem to struggle more then WT teams to get sponsorship and heave been soundings of riders having to pay pro conti teams to ride for them. Just look at some of the teams jerseys and the amount of sponsors they have on them

Aren't pro-conti teams allowed 3 sponsors like in the womens game? Not 100% just something that's in the back of my mind.

Seems to be more teams than normal have trouble or folding this year. One pro are done too but not entirely they will have a womens team, United Health care and Jelly Belly are done too. Even Quickstep who've been in the sport for a fair while are leaving the sport.

What ever about world tour the lower levels must really struggle given many races might only get shown on TV locally if that.

Miklos

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Even Quickstep who've been in the sport for a fair while are leaving the sport

I don’t think QS are leaving the sport, they just don’t want to be a headline sponsor anymore.

Miklos

Miklos wrote: »

I don’t think QS are leaving the sport, they just don’t want to be a headline sponsor anymore.

Ah ok, I'd wrongly assumed that as they weren't a title sponsor they were bowing out.

Lotto are another one now I think of it, they'll just be called Jumbo next season.

c.p.w.g.w

Aren't Team BMC merging with another world tour team or just folding