New Irish pro Conti team (aka The Aquablue thread)

c.p.w.g.w

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Aren't Team BMC merging with another world tour team or just folding

Merging with CCC.

Macy0161

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah ok, I'd wrongly assumed that as they weren't a title sponsor they were bowing out.

Lefevere has been trying to replace them as title sponsors for a couple of years. It seems a bit mad he can't, but "XXXXX-Quick Step" is going to be known as "Quick Step" in the minds of most fans regardless, which must put people off. Well in my mind they were when they were Omega Pharma Quick Step and Etixx Quick Step anyway!

Keeks

RobFowl wrote: »

Delaney should have known better than agree a deal in the first place.
Also for him to pull the plug after 2 years when he had assured all that funding for 4 years was in place at such short notice was simply unprofessional and disrespectful.

He had to pull the plug. He f'd it up with the 3 year contract with 3T. I would bet that no race organizer wanted to see the 1x bikes and that was why they weren't getting the invites.

Last year they got buy in with the concept of the self supporting financing of the team team...this years it looks like they 1x did not get the same buy in.

There is a lot more around the 1x issues then have already been leaked.

Thud

Keeks wrote: »

I would bet that no race organizer wanted to see the 1x bikes and that was why they weren't getting the invites.

did they not bring out a 2x version, surely that could have been used?

brocbrocach

Keeks wrote: »

I would bet that no race organizer wanted to see the 1x bikes and that was why they weren't getting the invites.

Why would the organizers give two damns what bike they rode though?
They weren't getting invites primarily becasue they had a middling roster, no star names and weren't from the right country. Plus money maybe...

If Delaney didn't know they were the criteria then he knew nothing about the sport and had no business buying into it.

RobFowl

Keeks wrote: »

He had to pull the plug. He f'd it up with the 3 year contract with 3T. I would bet that no race organizer wanted to see the 1x bikes and that was why they weren't getting the invites.

Last year they got buy in with the concept of the self supporting financing of the team team...this years it looks like they 1x did not get the same buy in.

There is a lot more around the 1x issues then have already been leaked.

He didn't have to pull the plug and didn't have to do it before the season was over.

He didn't have to leave riders high and dry.
He didn't have to sign a contract with 3T in the first place.
They had the Duo now so the single chainring mess was no longer as pressing an issue.
Bottom line is he messed up and took everyone else down with him while trying to blame anyone else but himself.

MPFGLB

RobFowl wrote: »

He didn't have to pull the plug and didn't have to do it before the season was over.

He didn't have to leave riders high and dry.
He didn't have to sign a contract with 3T in the first place.
They had the Duo now so the single chainring mess was no longer as pressing an issue.
Bottom line is he messed up and took everyone else down with him while trying to blame anyone else but himself.

He didn't have to invest his money in the first place and provide jobs for 2 years for 28 people ...but he did
He only has 3 riders in contract for next year ( the others are not and thus not 'owed' a contract ) and he didn't have to promise to pay their 2019 salaries but he has
He didn't bring down anyone....he finished the team...which is his right
He could not ride ToB without threatened legal action from TT ..so he didn't

Making Delaney out to be some terrible cowboy when at worse he was naive and ill informed

The sport of cycling has been brought down not be Delaney by the dopers and the social media keyboard warriors and so called journalists (and the in effective bureaucrats at the UCI) who are only interested in the sport when bashing everyone as a dopers while simultaneously worshiping at the alter of selected dopers
The sport is toxic for sponsors and these people have made it so ...In comparison Delaney is a saint

But the holier than thous will hang him out to dry while worshiping Contador or applauding Armstrong or marveling at Kimmage whose only contribution is to tell the wider world how f**ked' cycling is at every opportunity as that is his agenda equating cycling only with doping .

PLeeeeese

brocbrocach

I don't know why you feel the need to compare Delaney with Armstrong or Kimmage. That has nothing at all to do with it. He's a playboy who dipped into the sport leaving collatarol damage all around and left it whining. Doesn't make him a villain but it definitely leaves him open to criticism.
If he's such a saint why did he wait until after it was to late for many of those riders and staff to get other gigs? The same realities applied 6 months ago as last week. Basically he had a fit of pique and took his ball home. A 2nd rate Tinkoff.

CramCycle

MPFGLB wrote: »

He didn't have to invest his money in the first place and provide jobs for 2 years for 28 people ...but he did
He only has 3 riders in contract for next year ( the others are not and thus not 'owed' a contract ) and he didn't have to promise to pay their 2019 salaries but he has
He didn't bring down anyone....he finished the team...which is his right
He could not ride ToB without threatened legal action from TT ..so he didn't

To be fair, if he honours their contracts and salaries for 2019 or until they are employed elsewhere, he is a better man than most employers. Don't get me wrong, you put your name up there, you have to expect the keyboard warriors and the like or else stay a silent partner, so he chose that route.

I found fault with him as a manager/owner but it was his money to spend, alot of that 28 might never have gotten close to that level without him and are in a far better position to get in somewhere else with their name in lights at the minute, if they hadn't they might never have gotten close. I mean, I have criticised him as well, but that is part and parcel of the game.

My view of him is much improved if he fufills his promise.

Diarmuid

There's a telling difference between the comments from the riders who have been on this inside, losing their jobs and the analysis of the situation from our resident experts. The anti-Delaney commentators had formed their opinion a long time ago and are not going to change their mind now, regardless of the facts.

RobFowl

Diarmuid wrote: »

There's a telling difference between the comments from the riders who have been on this inside, losing their jobs and the analysis of the situation from our resident experts. The anti-Delaney commentators had formed their opinion a long time ago and are not going to change their mind now, regardless of the facts.

The riders under contract will have clauses in their contracts stopping them commenting fully. When the contracts expire then you will know what they think.

RobFowl

MPFGLB wrote: »

He didn't have to invest his money in the first place and provide jobs for 2 years for 28 people ...but he did
He only has 3 riders in contract for next year ( the others are not and thus not 'owed' a contract ) and he didn't have to promise to pay their 2019 salaries but he has
He didn't bring down anyone....he finished the team...which is his right
He could not ride ToB without threatened legal action from TT ..so he didn't

Making Delaney out to be some terrible cowboy when at worse he was naive and ill informed

He has 3 riders and staff in contract and supposedly offered others extensions as well.
He said the team was a 4 year commitment yet bailed after less than 2.
The Staff have been given a months notice so are not having their contracts paid out.

3t did not threaten legal action if AB rode the TOB, they were insisting that AB did not ride it on non sponsors bikes.

Saying he had a right to pull the team whenever he wants is just bollocks, he had commitments to riders and races which he just threw out of the pram.

Re being a cowboy , thats for people to decide them selves.


And re people having made their minds up ! Many like me would have been supporters of the team and riders but are simply disgusted with the way in which Rick Delaney pulled it despite his promises.



Hope the riders and staff all get new teams and re Delaney, I hope he stays away from the sport (and indeed sport in general) in the future.


Genuinely can't believe posters here thinking its ok for him to behave they way he has !!!

DonegalBay

Having a team pull out before a season is finished is really **** and a definite mark against the backer and especially in these circumstances, but fair play to Delaney if he pays riders for 2019. Hardly the first time it has happened, but maybe the first time a sponsor will honour contracts.

I think those suggesting he was naive regarding Wildcards are off the mark, anyone who knows much about pro cycling knows it is 18 PTteams, local Pro Continental wildcards and then random wildcards. Usually maybe 1 place or max 2. Of course if you have a good team like Cervelo or Slipstream when they started, it will weigh heavily in your favour and fact is Aqua Blue were a very average Pro Continental team. I was surprised they got a wildcard to the Vuelta last year as I didnt think they had the quality, but again fair play they got their stage win, but then that raised expectations. Delaney should have been well aware that the chances of getting a wildcard to any GT were slim, I know i was.

I also agree that cycling is a mess re sponsorship and I dont know if the WT really helps matters. All the WT teams have to ride the WT events which leaves very little room for Pro Continental teams yet there are 27 of them. Back when I started following the sport, usually the Top 16 teams on the ranking were selected to ride the GTs, but other than the Tour, not all would ride the Giro or Vuelta leaving far more Wildcard spots. Hell, even the Italian teams would turn down invites to the Tour. When LeMond won the Tour in 89, his team were only selected as a wildcard because the Italian Ariostea team declined their automatic invitation.

So there used to be far more opportunities for smaller teams to gain entry to GTs, also before the PR/WT teams were smaller in size which meant less support staff, which meant teams were less expensive to run and thus more accessible to smaller sponsors. There were Italian teams who had 10-14 riders who could ride all the Italian races and were more or less guranteed entry to the Giro which was their main target of the year, usually backed by an Italian sponsor whose interests lay primarily in Italy. Ditto for Spain. I guess with globalisation, times have changed, but Italian and Spanish cycling have been decimated as a result.

I often wonder if cycling is any more heathy than it was 20/30 years ago. For sure the riders are better paid and looked after, but the whole sponsorship area is still incredibly fragile. The figures I see bandied about for running Aqua Blue would have got you one of the top teams in the World in the 90s. I know, thats progession, but unless you can get a super rich sponsor, opportunities for smaller sponsors are incredibly limited for getting their moneys worth are and just not worth it for most sponsors.

Would also like to add that wildcard selections have always been controversial, and something that cycling has failed to sort out after all these years, but back then it was really only for the Tour and teams folded based on not being selected. Sean Kelly's last team Catavana were cobbled together in the hoping of riding the Tour in 94. The sponsors were hoping the presence of the legend Kelly and the Madiot brothers would ensure their selection, but Madiot broke his leg in Paris-Roubaix, Kelly was past it and they were not selected to ride the Tour. The backer pulled the plug once he learned of their non selection and the riders were left high and dry in June. Subaru and Mercury were two US teams that had similar stories and lets not mention Le Groupment.

Cycling sponsorship has been a mess for a long time, but I dont think it excuses what has happened to Aqua Blue. The summary of this rambling post is that there are plenty of examples of backers building teams in the hope of gaining wildcard slots only to spit the dummy when it didn't happen. Delaney should have done his research and learnt not to rely on getting into a GT as the salvation of the team.

Lumen

MPFGLB wrote: »

Making Delaney out to be some terrible cowboy when at worse he was naive and ill informed

One person's naivety is another's optimism.

CramCycle

I've read nothing more than what's here and that seems to be very contradictory, any reports out with just the facts?

Is he paying staff or not?

gman2k

RobFowl wrote:

The riders under contract will have clauses in their contracts stopping them commenting fully. When the contracts expire then you will know what they think.

Didn't stop Adam Blythe tearing into the 3t bikes on the podcast.

c.p.w.g.w

gman2k wrote: »

Didn't stop Adam Blythe tearing into the 3t bikes on the podcast.

Are strada bikes really that bad?

RobFowl

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Are strada bikes really that bad?

I think the main gripe was the lack of gear options afforded by 1x11 for road racing. That said don't think they were overly impressed by other aspects of the bikes as well.

Raam

Does anyone know anyone personally who has a 3T bike?

RobFowl

CramCycle wrote: »

I've read nothing more than what's here and that seems to be very contradictory, any reports out with just the facts?

Is he paying staff or not?

https://cyclingindustry.news/aquablue-sport-announces-pro-tour-ambition-following-uci-audit/

Beasty

Raam wrote: »

Does anyone know anyone personally who has a 3T bike?

I'm pretty close with my T3

CramCycle

Beasty wrote: »

I'm pretty close with my T3

Another story about that crash awaits :pac:

scott1974

Only a year too late to save Aqua Blue...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/3t-strada-due-first-look/

brocbrocach

The concept of the single chainring is the biggest casualty of all this. It worked reasonably well for Dunbar, Pedersen etc going on their results though...

neris

Another team bites the dust

https://twitter.com/teamjltcondor/status/1041639765223854080?s=19

Pudsy33

In slightly more positive now, Adam Blyth has found himself a home in Ewan 's lead out train with Lotto Soudal next year.

1bryan

neris wrote: »

Another team bites the dust

https://twitter.com/teamjltcondor/status/1041639765223854080?s=19

Isn't stacey kelly swannying for them?

So that's Dunne and Kelly both getting their P45 within weeks of each other.

neris

https://twitter.com/Lotto_Soudal/status/1041617080762683393?s=19

Pudsy33 wrote: »

In slightly more positive now, Adam Blyth has found himself a home in Ewan 's lead out train with Lotto Soudal next year.

brocbrocach

had a terrible year

Taxuser1

neris wrote: »

Another team bites the dust

https://twitter.com/teamjltcondor/status/1041639765223854080?s=19

apparently Holdsworth also on brink/have ceased their team

https://twitter.com/propulse/status/1041643152468258817