RAW Superthread

Genetic Jackhammer

I know he is old now but brother Flair really doesn't look well at all and why the WWE would have him working in Florida where the pandemic is at it's worst is just crazy.

Agent Coulson

Flair really isn't adding anything to the show however I guess he really needs the money and is prepared to put his life at risk for it now.

Agent Coulson

So they are going to save the 3rd hour ratings by putting on MMA.

hynesie08

I hope chikara got a pay day out of raw underground

PTH2009

So whats to be gained by this Raw underground ?

Agent Coulson

I really want to see Dominic get annihilated so much.

Agent Coulson

Sasha and Bayley are trying to avoid defending the title narrative... Well maybe they are just following in the footsteps of the highest paid guy in the WWE and just doing a Brock on it.

Agent Coulson

Asuka is awesome maybe the best thing about the WWE right now.

PTH2009

This underground thing looks sleazy as feck

Agent Coulson

We need demo ratings so RAW is War Underground and not PG so lets get edgy

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

This underground thing looks sleazy as feck

But....
........ I seem to like it........

What is this fresh hell?

J. Marston

Shane's midlife crisis.

hynesie08

Was he beaten up by a gang of marines outside a bar in syracuse???

PTH2009

The new stable going round setting fire to generators

Must be some weak security in the PC

Agent Coulson

The ROH and TNA cast offs closing RAW.

Joe is going kill you.

Now I can get behind this.

WWE proving it can make me embarrassed and excite me in equal measures in the space of minutes.

Good stuff

I'm so confused by this underground stuff. But I love it

PTH2009

The new stable is the hurt business (MVP, Lashley and Benjamin). At least its something for Benjamin

I'm guessing they paid guys to wreck the generator earlier in the show or was just the coked out underground audience members that done it ?

Agent Coulson

The RAW Underground set had a total Lucha Underground feel to it.

RollieFingers

Nothing screams underground fight club like the son of a billionaire holding shoot 'fights' in the same location as the weekly professional wrestling show is held in.

So stupid, if I wanted to see a real fight I'd watch MMA not whatever that was supposed to be on a pro-wrestling show. Between that and the other hokey BS like a group of masked men attacking generators, this was some grade A wrestlecrap.

The White Wolf

That Raw Underground is some embarrassing sh1t, where just like the Brawl for All it screams of being ashamed of professional wrestling. If that sh1t increases their ratings I'll eat my fcuking hat.

Agent Coulson

The ratings are the toilet let’s not write good storylines promoting our amazing let’s put a McMahon back front and centre as only the McMahons draw ratings.

LineOfBeauty

The real interesting things this week weren't a fight pit or a new faction but in the how they went about trying to drum up buzz before the show and then what they produced in order to fight the expected lowest rating in history.

There was no hook for this show until hours beforehand. WWE themselves tell us a new faction is debuting, OK but maybe a strange thing to do. Then certain websites report Shane is back tonight with a big idea, some websites have it that it's a Brawl 4 All type thing. WWE feed some mark journalists a few hours before the show to drum up interest.

Then there's the what. The WWE approach all Covid has been something unusual, to gain curiosity interest. All well and good but it's to pop short term numbers and the law of diminishing returns applies here because post Last Ride each attempt at these has created less and less buzz. Obviously they think what they've been producing each week prior to this would be slaughtered in the ratings. Here's the crux, they had no star to spotlight, instead it was Shane McMahon, no big match or angle that they could rely on to draw a number because nothing is hot, instead it's a car crash idea and hope people are interested enough to tune in this week, no long term plan, they're flying by on a week to week basis. All those attempted pushes of young guys at the start of the year? Gone pretty much entirely. The Pritchard approach is rely on the old reliable (in this case the McMahons) and get by with hot shot ideas each week to week. They desperately needed a number this week with increased interest in their declining demos from investors and TV Networks. People talk about Russo and WCW 2000 all the time but make no mistake, what's happening right now with WWE in 2020 is worse. Maybe the rating for last night's show will justify it, but long term there's issues here and there's only so many times you can cry wolf until the village people simply don't care anymore.

Pentecost

If I were the TV people I would be asking serious questions as to WTF that was and what the plan is. Raw Underground was complete nonsense without any purpose. Were Lashley and co the "new faction"?

I hope those dancers aren't wrestlers because that was demeaning as hell if they are.

Lord TSC

As I said last night, that was the first Raw I've watched in months.

I like the Fight Club idea, on paper. It made the trio look great, batting away people so easily. I'd imagine Shane's involvement was just to establish the club and it will become their baby now. Its something fresh and actually put over the three.

What I didn't like about it was the same thing I hated all through the show; the utter over-production. The "sleezy underground" still had the same awful camera cuts, replays and graphics. Even when they try and do something different, it still looks like a Kevin Dunn production.

The replays overall were crazy, not just in fight club but all over. I'm not sure if they've gotten worse or I was just used to them before. But there was 15 camera cuts between the bell ringing and the first lock up between MVP and Lashley. I get the cuts when it's to hide a move not connecting, but they cant let a camera shot hold for more than 1 second. It's nauseating.

Not sure how I feel about the whole "new stable" stuff either. Again, over-produced. You've advertised a new stable, and instead it's 15 seconds of 5 people in hoods throwing a petrol bomb, and apparently one of them standing beside a light switch flicking it on and off. How do they know this is a "new stable" and not some genuine looters? The commentators sold it as if it was so mundane. The scripting of the introduction was so "This is quite typical for us", so it didn't feel special. And why advertise a new stable when it's such a short clip that tells us so little. AND the fact they stressed it wasn't political makes it very clear that it is; that this is them doing some weird ANTIFA angle.

Love Joe though. When Seth was going after Phillips, you know Joe wasn't going to let it go. Even in such a short time, he just has such a genuine bad-ass vibe. You believe he could kill you, even though he's not actually backed it up with actions in forever.

J. Marston

Nia won't be around for a while. 10/10 Raw.

ricero

So much potential with this underground fight club.

Great innovation again from WWE.

The mystery vandals all points to the underground but I am hoping its the undisputed era.

Great Raw.

Loughc

PTH2009 wrote: »

The new stable is the hurt business (MVP, Lashley and Benjamin). At least its something for Benjamin

I'm guessing they paid guys to wreck the generator earlier in the show or was just the coked out underground audience members that done it ?

The Hurt Business (AWFUL Name) are so bland... the smell of mid-card off all 3 won't go away...

Let's break down this stable....

Benjamin... great in the ring but so damn bland... remember when they hired an actress to play his Momma to get him over... christ.

MVP... looked completely out of shape in his match and can no longer go in the ring, deffo suited as a manager can talk on the mic but thats it.

And Booby (typo intended) Lashley... is as bland as his eyebrow less expressions....

I honestly couldn't care less about the 3 of them...


And then the RAW Underground.... LOL, you did it again Vince, this will make another fantastic chapter on the rise and fall of the WWE.

The rate these lads are spiraling is something else... remember the last ratings crisis when all 4 McMahons showed up and promised us they're listening to the fans and will make big changes and give us the match ups we want to see.... that did last.

Or when RAW's 3rd hour was going dark, different theme, etc, introduced by Foley.... another week...

The underground is the same cheap gimmick they'll use to get people to tune in for a second watch it and go... MEH.

At this stage lets hope either USA or FOX have the balls to pull the plug on Raw/Smackdown and just pull it from the schedule....

Loughc

J. Marston wrote: »

Nia won't be around for a while. 10/10 Raw.

She's deffo behind the new faction... that's why they're rioting... it's the Free Nia movement.

Furious-Red

Loughc wrote: »

The Hurt Business (AWFUL Name) are so bland... the smell of mid-card off all 3 won't go away...

Let's break down this stable....

Benjamin... great in the ring but so damn bland... remember when they hired an actress to play his Momma to get him over... christ.

MVP... looked completely out of shape in his match and can no longer go in the ring, deffo suited as a manager can talk on the mic but thats it.

And Booby (typo intended) Lashley... is as bland as his eyebrow less expressions....

I honestly couldn't care less about the 3 of them...


And then the RAW Underground.... LOL, you did it again Vince, this will make another fantastic chapter on the rise and fall of the WWE.

The rate these lads are spiraling is something else... remember the last ratings crisis when all 4 McMahons showed up and promised us they're listening to the fans and will make big changes and give us the match ups we want to see.... that did last.

Or when RAW's 3rd hour was going dark, different theme, etc, introduced by Foley.... another week...

The underground is the same cheap gimmick they'll use to get people to tune in for a second watch it and go... MEH.

At this stage lets hope either USA or FOX have the balls to pull the plug on Raw/Smackdown and just pull it from the schedule....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgXLC0Opzr0

ShaneU

Wow can't believe this is real, what the hell are they thinking. A fake fight club? It's like something out of a parody. If they weren't constantly ruining their biggest stars on a regular basis with their terrible booking and story-lines they wouldn't be in this mess. They've buried Ricochet, ruined the Fiend, gave Rollins a terrible gimmick he didn't need, just a few examples of guys who should be much bigger stars that they keep holding back. Maybe focus on building stars and feuds that people care about instead of desperate stuff like this.

ThePott

That was the absolute drizzles.

So the faction seem to be a bunch of rioters, great time to debut that WWE. For all their efforts they managed to dim the lights for a couple of seconds. Half wondering if this is going to be people that were fired during the Pandemic. Meanwhile Charly Caruso is investigating a box hitting the floor filled with nebulous equipment. Fascinating stuff.

I have no idea how people enjoyed Raw Underground. I honestly think it was more overproduced than the actual show and I'm not one to complain about camera cuts or production side of things cause it sounds nitpicky and is an easy complaint but to present your grittier, underground show. You had more camera cuts than ever before, great production value and lighting. If you want this to have some realism, strip it down to basics. People are used to seeing fights on the internet now, make it look less polished. I'm not even joking, these segments gave me a headache to look at. There was one point where they cut to the dancers for about a second. It also had the worst stock music I've ever heard. I won't even comment on the 'fighting', again in the age of UFC this needs to look more believable. It just came off as try-hard cringe to me. They need to strip it back, less is more at times and if this is to succeed then it needs a production overhaul. I don't get it at all.

Am I crazy or did Nia only come back like a week ago and now they're writing her off again? Zelina poisoned Montez, right then. Joe getting up from commentary was good but that was only cause Seth want after Tom, it didn't have anything to do with Dominic or anything, right? So why is he going to get involved beyond that unless Seth goes after him?

Sorry for the rant, this was one of those shows that made me question why I watch wrestling, awful, still have a headache tbh.

JP Liz V1

So no new faction?

Omackeral

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

So no new faction?

At the end. Rioters. Yet to be revealed who they are.

The White Wolf

That was a very good promo from Ruby. Could of easily fallen into cringe territory but she did great.

Lord TSC

The first Underground segment lasted 2:45.

It had 76 camera cuts. That's a camera cut every 2.2 seconds.

The White Feather

First Raw that I enjoyed in a few weeks. At least new things are happening.

MVP has been very good on the mic lately and just what Lashley and Benjamin need. I like the name The Hurt Business.

I liked the Raw Underground as it was new and fun. The only problem is what now? Where does it go from here? Introduce an Underground title?

Raw actually held my attention as there was a good bit going on. The production issues actually led somewhere. Hopefully they are introducing a storyline with the rioters. At least it meant something. Have to see where it goes but the problem is that we have been burnt so many times, we are all cynical now. Is it related to the hacker? Where did he go? Thats the problem with WWE. They need to keep going with things.

Make this Underground mean something. Get dancers even more raunchy or something. I worry it goes nowhere but they at least got my attention with it. The only downside was the camera shaking up and down. I liked the "real fighting" aspect of it though.

The main thing is there was something to talk about. People ranting about it want new things but then when WWE do a new thing its slated. At least give it a few weeks to see what happens. I know we have all been burned but at least there seems to be people posting about what happened on Raw today. Its a whole lot better than nothing at all happening.

CastorTroy

Not even sure how matches work in Underground. Seems Shane just stops the match when he wants.

Speaking of stopping matches, anyone figure out why the Sasha/Shayna match was stopped?

I'm assuming the rioters also poisoned Montez.

Agent Coulson

Bitter sacked talent

https://twitter.com/ToBeMiro/status/1290385907858542592?s=20

CastorTroy

Was it me or did Ruby's skin look yellowish?

Rock Lesnar

I haven't watched Raw in months, but judging by some of the posts here, i have to check this out later for the laugh

Pentecost

My initial reaction was that it was utter nonsense. And it still is but I do have to say at least I'm interested in some way. If only to see WTF they do next.

Loughc

The White Feather wrote: »

The main thing is there was something to talk about. People ranting about it want new things but then when WWE do a new thing its slated. At least give it a few weeks to see what happens. I know we have all been burned but at least there seems to be people posting about what happened on Raw today. Its a whole lot better than nothing at all happening.

How many times has people said about WWE ah give it a few weeks and let's see where it goes... and it teeters out after a week or 2 and is completely forgotten about.

Underground will go the same way.

And as for the aces and eights rioters... firstly did they hire teenagers to play the parts? Skinny squeaky voiced losers... secondly that storyline with go NOWHERE and more importantly will result in creating ZERO new stars.

ThePott

Not that long ago Mick Foley was talking about how Raw would have a grittier 3rd hour presented in a new way with attitude.
Did that even last a week? This feels like a recooked version of that idea.

LineOfBeauty

Loughc wrote: »

How many times has people said about WWE ah give it a few weeks and let's see where it goes... and it teeters out after a week or 2 and is completely forgotten about.

Underground will go the same way.

And as for the aces and eights rioters... firstly did they hire teenagers to play the parts? Skinny squeaky voiced losers... secondly that storyline with go NOWHERE and more importantly will result in creating ZERO new stars.

People have been burned so many times by WWE the last few years that the "give it time to play out" line no longer applies. There's companies I follow that have enough credit in the bank where I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, WWE is at the bottom of that list.

Omackeral

Lord TSC wrote: »

It had 76 camera cuts. That's a camera cut every 2.2 seconds.

Literally unwatchable. Any interest in the Underground concept is killed the minute that crap starts. I honestly don't know anyone who thinks it adds anything and have only ever read people complaining about it. IT ADDS NOTHING!

Agent Coulson

What has Dominic done to justify getting the main event of Summerslam as his first professional match.

That p1sses on a lot of the talent who have broken themselves over the years to just to get to the show.


It's not like Rey is a huge draw anymore and they are doing this to keep him happy if that was the case they would just give him the contract he is looking for however the haven't done that.

beakerjoe

Well, thanks to the buzz around Raw yesterday evening I thought id watch Raw this morning. Id hopefully either be happily surprised or SMH in disappointment.

The positives – Drew and Randy was good, as was Ruby/Liv and the Iconics. Apollo vs MVP was fine, considering MVP is well WELL past it.

I don’t mind Sasha / Bayley vs Shayna/ Asuka. Again its not great story telling, but as a feud its fine.

The negatives – As with modern day Raw (or Raw for the past 10 years depending on who you ask), Raw has waaay to many negatives to really keep you tuned in for 3 hours on a weekly basis.

Firstly all the positives above suffer from the lack of real crowd. It still sucks. But that’s not WWE’s fault.

What is WWE’s fault is everything else.

Last night I had a choice to sit up and watch the hype of Raw or go to bed. As I have been burned every time I watch Raw live in the last 5 years at least, I chose to catch up this morning. I had no faith in WWE actually delivering anything good.

The new faction was neutered by announcing it before hand, then acting like they had no clue on commentary. And what did this faction do? Hurl a petrol bomb at a generator. And what did it accomplish? Nothing. It’s a half baked plan at best.

Now when the ratings are down, send in the McMahons…… Shane has to be the most off the wall when it comes to creative ideas and it’s no surprise that he’s not been near creative much over the years compared to his Sis. This idea is the worst of both worlds, it is so awful. From the cheesy music, to the cringe dancers, it’s about 20 years too late. For all the flack Brawl 4 All gets, Id rather that in a heartbeat as it was at least interesting. Ive no desire to watch Raw Underground ever. Shane comes off as respectable as that guy behind the girls gone wild videos. Its utter bollocks.

And what do they use it for, they try get over a big young star and a group of past their prime wrestlers.

This booking is exactly what WWE mocked WCW over years ago, booking on the fly with half baked ideas. Welcome to WCW.

The rest is just as bad. I don’t acre for Dominic Mysterio and I never will at this rate. How is he beating up 2 pro wrestlers. It’s a mess. I don’t wanna cheer for him, it makes Rollins look like a chump.

Fords poisoning was awful too. Just garbage.

Nia Jax is just the worst, get her gone for real please.

WWE need to be gutted creatively before its too late. So much is salvageable, but its not looking good. They cant bring in new viewers, they drive away viewers like me with awful, awful booking.

NXT and AEW aren’t perfect, but its so much better than WWE’s flagship shows.

People can talk about new things and fresh ideas, and I really am glad they enjoyed it, but it is not for me. Fresh ideas aren’t always good ideas, in particular the new ideas in this case seem to be bad idea’s that they use out of desperation.

Chris Jericho cut a promo in 1999, on his debut with WWE about how things were so bad that mediocrity was viewed as excellence. I feel that folk who enjoyed that are so starved for something new, anything, that they will enjoy mediocrity over the drizzling ****s.

JP Liz V1

Can Joe tag with or take Dominic's spot against Seth at SS, is he cleared to wrestle?

beakerjoe

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Can Joe tag with or take Dominic's spot against Seth at SS, is he cleared to wrestle?

I doubt it, hes clearly concussed as he loved Raw Underground.

:pac: