RAW Superthread

CastorTroy

They've already written Underground into a corner with team MVP taking over. How long until we see name against name in it?

RollieFingers

It's not even like it's some shiny new idea, Josh Barnett carried out the concept about fifty times better at the Bloodsport events.

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

People have been burned so many times by WWE the last few years that the "give it time to play out" line no longer applies. There's companies I follow that have enough credit in the bank where I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, WWE is at the bottom of that list.

Exactly. They have no interest in watching, fool me once n all that.

WWE is in a very bad way. Yes they have the big money deals, but what happens when its over. Will a Fox or USA take a punt on them again for similar money. Why would a new fan watch this ****e?

Why would an old fan return?

Quick fixes, especially half baked fixes, wont work. They need to stop, clear out the ****e talent (wrestlers, agents, creative, writers etc). Things can be turned around, but it will be a slow process.

The future is bleak.

beakerjoe

RollieFingers wrote: »

It's not even like it's some shiny new idea, Josh Barnett carried out the concept about fifty times better at the Bloodsport events.

But this has Shane McMahon attached. McMahon's make everything better times 10.

And it also has cringe dancers, who look like they are being forced to dance at gun point.

Lord TSC

Low key, Dio Madden has an interesting character.

Killed by Brock Lesnar, he disappears for a while. Trains hard, works hard. The randomly shows up in the underground, ready to prove himself, only to be humiliated by Shelton Benjamin. Now, he goes back to training. One day, it will be his time. One day....

Omackeral

They didn’t even name him. Just another goober.

J. Marston

Is Boards a mess for anyone else?

The White Feather

I agree wholeheartedly with people saying they have been burned, I was the one who said it. They have to start somewhere. Hopefully this is it. It is something new and they had a thread going through the show for the first time in ages with the rioters at the end. This is what we want.

Now of course it may go nowhere but this is what we want in a show. A few storylines threaded through the show. Someone said NXT was better than Raw but to me it is just match after match. No storylines. That wont draw in people. The wrestling matches are nearly always fun in WWE but its the storylines that make people and stars.

I get the impression people will just critisise everything WWE do. We wanted new things happening and a few surprises. We got them. They were not earth shattering but thats the idea that we want going forward.

They have a long ways to go but its a start. They have to keep it going though which is the hard part. This is why everyone gets annoyed as we have been burned!

Just look at the posts here. A lot of them today. Thats a good thing which shows they have somewhat improved things. We have to see how it goes though before we can say its actually getting better every week.

JP Liz V1

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Flair really isn't adding anything to the show however I guess he really needs the money and is prepared to put his life at risk for it now.

I thought with Flair and Orton we might get a new Evolution faction maybe add in Adam Cole

JP Liz V1

J. Marston wrote: »

Is Boards a mess for anyone else?

Yes

PTH2009

Shane Mcmahon jumping around like he took a ****load of snow

Did they explain about the guys setting the generator on fire ?

The White Feather

Agent Coulson wrote: »

What has Dominic done to justify getting the main event of Summerslam as his first professional match.

That p1sses on a lot of the talent who have broken themselves over the years to just to get to the show.


It's not like Rey is a huge draw anymore and they are doing this to keep him happy if that was the case they would just give him the contract he is looking for however the haven't done that.

Rey might not be a huge draw but Dominik might be. 1.1M views already tho top two were seth rollins segments

The White Wolf

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I thought with Flair and Orton we might get a new Evolution faction maybe add in Adam Cole

Would feel like a waste of Cole to put him from one group where he was the leader to another group where he's the lackey.

I like the idea of Orton having lackeys though, the revival were actually perfect for that.

JP Liz V1

The White Wolf wrote: »

Would feel like a waste of Cole to put him from one group where he was the leader to another group where he's the lackey.

I like the idea of Orton having lackeys though, the revival were actually perfect for that.

Cole Orton ultimately feuding then could be good imho

Loughc

J. Marston wrote: »

Is Boards a mess for anyone else?

The only thing worse than boards touch site at the moment is the current WWE product.

Loughc

-- After hyping the return of Shane McMahon to help bolster viewership, the numbers are in for yesterday's Monday Night Raw. The show generated an average audience of 1.715 million viewers, up from last week's 1.617 million and a five-week high, but still among the least watched shows in history. In the 18-49 demographic, Raw averaged a 0.51 rating to finish 5th overall with the hours finishing #4, #5 and #6. That rating was up from last week as well (0.48).


Hour 1 - 1.824 million
Hour 2 - 1.710 million
Hour 3 - 1.610 million


Well that was a huge impact.


Just end next weeks Raw with the performance centre exploding. And shut the thing down.

Loughc

The White Feather wrote: »

First Raw that I enjoyed in a few weeks. At least new things are happening.

MVP has been very good on the mic lately and just what Lashley and Benjamin need. I like the name The Hurt Business.

I liked the Raw Underground as it was new and fun. The only problem is what now? Where does it go from here? Introduce an Underground title?

Raw actually held my attention as there was a good bit going on. The production issues actually led somewhere. Hopefully they are introducing a storyline with the rioters. At least it meant something. Have to see where it goes but the problem is that we have been burnt so many times, we are all cynical now. Is it related to the hacker? Where did he go? Thats the problem with WWE. They need to keep going with things.

Make this Underground mean something. Get dancers even more raunchy or something. I worry it goes nowhere but they at least got my attention with it. The only downside was the camera shaking up and down. I liked the "real fighting" aspect of it though.

The main thing is there was something to talk about. People ranting about it want new things but then when WWE do a new thing its slated. At least give it a few weeks to see what happens. I know we have all been burned but at least there seems to be people posting about what happened on Raw today. Its a whole lot better than nothing at all happening.

Well here you go.

-- Yesterday afternoon, news leaked that WWE would be debuting a faction and the company very quickly moved to release an official statement confirming that development but when the show aired that night, this new faction barely were shown and did almost nothing apart from setting fire to a generator.

According to fightfulselect.com, it appears that there were never really any plans to have the stable debut last night, but WWE’s social media team saw the leak and jumped the gun by releasing the statement. Due to the fact that the stable did appear, it’s likely that WWE will introduce them formally on a future episode and while the reports indicate that the group is here to cause “chaos” within the company, it’s completely up in the air if WWE sticks with the storyline as plans are often abandoned, sometimes after they have invested quite a bit more into it - for example, the hacker storyline.

It wasn’t even meant to be a thing. They’ll drop it like a hot snot.

sky88

Yous do know you just don’t have to watch wrestling if you hate it this much

I’ve stopped watching raw/smackdown completely and just skim nxt/aew it’s much better

I probably read this forum more than I’m watching stuff lately

Loughc

sky88 wrote: »

Yous do know you just don’t have to watch wrestling if you hate it this much

I’ve stopped watching raw/smackdown completely and just skim nxt/aew it’s much better

I probably read this forum more than I’m watching stuff lately

I don’t watch it. Just the clips on YouTube and read the online reports. From the looks of the ratings there’s very few people watching it

CastorTroy

So apart from the group blowing up the generator, we're the technical difficulties and poisoning planned? Maybe they were meant as teases with the faction debuting later.

beakerjoe

I watch it out of habit, though in the last 2 years I have only watched big events and clips of Raw or SD.

But my god, its getting harder and harder to watch. I comment here as I am a WWE fan who optimistically has hoped for the best over the years.

Covid done it no favors and the low ratings have not been used as a catalyst for deep change.

Vince gives us what he thinks he want. In 2020, I dont think he knows how to give people what they want.

This latest attempt for change for me, will not make me tune in nor will it bring in new fans long term.

Change needs to happen and as long as he is in charge, the reform wont happen.

Look at NXT, it thrives on aspects that work and is held back my being a third fiddle to Raw or Smackdown.

If Raw was booked like NXT, it be ten times more watchable.

Loughc

The frustrating thing is they can do it when they want to. Remember when they reintroduced the brand split. The draft was cool.

The first raw was brilliant with great matches new camera angles less camera switches and even interviews post match in the ring.

It felt fresh and exciting and they made Balor a star in one show.

But then 2 weeks later it was back being the same Raw as always.

beakerjoe

Loughc wrote: »

The frustrating thing is they can do it when they want to. Remember when they reintroduced the brand split. The draft was cool.

The first raw was brilliant with great matches new camera angles less camera switches and even interviews post match in the ring.

It felt fresh and exciting and they made Balor a star in one show.

But then 2 weeks later it was back being the same Raw as always.

Over the recent years, while negatives out weigh the positives, there has been great programming.

I loved SD when the brand split happened back in 2016, I think. Talking Smack, Bryan, Miz, AJ, Ambrose, Ellsworth, Orton, Ziggler, Wyatt..... all booked very well.

So much bad decisions recently, before Covid...... the Kofi squash, Too much Corbain, Wyatt jobbing to Goldberg, it is a different show completely, with most of the same personalities.

The White Feather

Loughc wrote: »

Well here you go.



It wasn’t even meant to be a thing. They’ll drop it like a hot snot.

I know what ypu mean but hopefully not

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1290786185397317634?s=19

Agent Coulson

I wonder will it be a stable of April releases looking for "Retribution"

ThePott

That's what I thought before alright could also see it being forgotten superstars

Furious-Red

ThePott wrote: »

That's what I thought before alright could also see it being forgotten superstars

Forgotten Sons?

Pentecost

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I wonder will it be a stable of April releases looking for "Retribution"

Most have gone elsewhere at this point haven't they?

ThePott

Furious-Red wrote: »

Forgotten Sons?

God forbid, bringing back a group that got condemned for was taken off for political reasons and bringing them back as rioters would seem a bit thick.

Pentecost wrote: »

Most have gone elsewhere at this point haven't they?

I was thinking of this and that's why I was worried because the people left would be pretty lacklustre. No Way Jose gonna lead them :pac:

Pentecost

More likely a bunch of soon to be forgotten, disposable NXTers.

J. Marston

Great, a bunch of jobbers. That'll put buts in seats.

CastorTroy

ThePott wrote: »

I was thinking of this and that's why I was worried because the people left would be pretty lacklustre. No Way Jose gonna lead them :pac:

Reminds me last week's Impact had a quick joke with his name (at about 2:55)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_iK-DzTqOI

It will probably be NXTers that they have nothing for on the weekly shows.

Agent Coulson

So kayfabe cinematic shoot fighting is the future of the WWE.

Genetic Jackhammer

That was just so bad steal a good idea from the indys and then make a total WWE balls of it by tying to make slick and shiny instead of making it gritty and cheap looking like a real underground fight scene would be.

Agent Coulson

CastorTroy wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_iK-DzTqOI

That is the greatest thing I have seen ever!

PTH2009

Retribution is Nexes part 2 with Nia as the leader :)

Remember a time when we thought Joe was going to attack Dominik ?, time does wonders and the 2 seem to have put there differences aside to beat the real baddy Seth Rollins

J. Marston

PTH2009 wrote: »

Retribution is Nexes part 2 with Nia as the leader :)

Remember a time when we thought Joe was going to attack Dominik ?, time does wonders and the 2 seem to have put there differences aside to beat the real baddy Seth Rollins

She was punished by WWE last night, she was in that all black get up.

Fúck, you're probably right but I'm praying you're wrong.

Agent Coulson

This would have been better if it came from Shane's old drinking partner Johnny Polo however it still did make me giggle from Dreamer.

https://twitter.com/THETOMMYDREAMER/status/1290483159495143424?s=20

CastorTroy

Agent Coulson wrote: »

That is the greatest thing I have seen ever!

I posted all 3 parts in the Impact thread of you want to watch them.


As for Nia being in the group, I think it's safe to say she wasn't caught on camera. I know they say black is slimming, but it's not that magical

Lord TSC

Seems to be two schools of thought with regards the group.

One is that Rusev, Maria & Mike Bennet all were tweeting anti-Shane stuff at the same time, with Bennet also posting about how underused Ali is, and that they could form a part of the group. A group who want retribution for being fired or not used properly. I thought Rusev had joined TNA though?

The other is a few NXT guys seemed to wipe their twitter recently; Ciampa and dijakovic have both wiped their twitters and replaced their header images with a black box, and Dijak fits the profile of one of the people seen in the video. This one feels way more likely. A group of NXT guys who feel they've been overlooked in call ups, etc.

CastorTroy

Ciampa jumping around like a teenager excited about doing something rebellious doesn't seem right. There were 5 with at least 1 being a woman, I think?

Haven't watched this week's Impact yet but no sign of Rusev. Bennett and Maria were on Talk n Shop at the weekend.

A group with Ciampa and Dijak would be pretty good. Problem is though they risk being Nexused unless HHH really puts the foot down. Funny both those guys were beaten by Kross.

DM_7

I 'watched' RAW this week.

Well I used fast forward for most of it tbh but only watched to see what the underground stuff was about. It felt like them trying to use the cinematic type matches in a new way and it was an interesting idea but not well executed.

I think WWE is crying out for a more back to basis approach.

In the end they will never have a good weekly show on a regular basis, three hours is just far too long to ever be able to achieve it and as posters here said at the time it was going to kill the tv shows in the long run.

PTH2009

scared myself for a second there

Maybe there doing the hacker again with this group and Nia is the hacker

They poison people too

beakerjoe

DM_7 wrote: »

I 'watched' RAW this week.

I think WWE is crying out for a more back to basis approach.

Couldn't agree more. AEW kept it simple at the start and it allowed them to get a foothold. Nothing too wild, but they did the basics of story telling with a very talent group. WWE can easily do this but they dont have the patience.

CastorTroy

But they were solely responsible for the Daniel Bryan slow build, according to that video package they did.

Speaking of Bryan, I think he poisoned Montez due to all the plastic cups he goes through, polluting the environment

The White Wolf

CastorTroy wrote: »

Speaking of Bryan, I think he poisoned Montez due to all the plastic cups he goes through, polluting the environment

Good enough for him for coming up with that prancing cup holding nonsense.

Lord TSC

John Pollack: Hour 3 of Raw feat. Raw Underground compared to last week's third hour (which was an all-time low):
Adults 18-49: +24%;
Females 18-49: +54%;
Males 18-49: +9%;
Adults 18-34: +82%;
Females 12-34: +237.5% (not a typo);
Males 12-34: +86%;
Adults 25-54: +15%;
Adults 50+: -6.5%

beakerjoe

Lord TSC wrote: »

John Pollack: Hour 3 of Raw feat. Raw Underground compared to last week's third hour (which was an all-time low):
Adults 18-49: +24%;
Females 18-49: +54%;
Males 18-49: +9%;
Adults 18-34: +82%;
Females 12-34: +237.5% (not a typo);
Males 12-34: +86%;
Adults 25-54: +15%;
Adults 50+: -6.5%

How much will be here to watch next week though

I dont think what we saw makes people keep coming back. Id reckon the hype job pushed the numbers

Lord TSC

Probably. But it's probably a bit of a positive sign that they generated enough buzz over hours 1 and 2 to get people in. Especially, apparently, young women (is Shane a hot draw? lol)

It shows there is actually a market there. People WANT to watch.

Just that when they do, they tend to get chased off again quickly.

beakerjoe

Lord TSC wrote: »

Probably. But it's probably a bit of a positive sign that they generated enough buzz over hours 1 and 2 to get people in. Especially, apparently, young women (is Shane a hot draw? lol)

It shows there is actually a market there. People WANT to watch.

Just that when they do, they tend to get chased off again quickly.

Oh there sure is people who want to watch, myself included.

Lets say, for example, Rusev Bennett etc return as a stable. Its a great idea IMO, but usually in the first few weeks, like most storylines, their execution is usually poor to abysmal. Then they job them out or drop them.

And I go back to not watching.