RAW Superthread

J. Marston

I like that Drew and Sheamus are friends despite one being face and the other heel. Usually all heels and faces hate each other for no reason in wrestling.

Loughc

J. Marston wrote: »

I like that Drew and Sheamus are friends despite one being face and the other heel. Usually all heels and faces hate each other for no reason in wrestling.

Except you know this will lead to a Sheamus double cross out of nowhere.

gerrybbadd

Loughc wrote: »

Except you know this will lead to a Sheamus double cross out of nowhere.

Of course it will. Drew needs a new challenger after Orton & Reigns.

I expect an appearance from Mammy McIntyre, who will be Brogue Kicked into oblivion.

J. Marston

Loughc wrote: »

Except you know this will lead to a Sheamus double cross out of nowhere.

As is tradition!

hynesie08

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Of course it will. Drew needs a new challenger after Orton & Reigns.

I expect an appearance from Mammy McIntyre, who will be Brogue Kicked into oblivion.

Bit tricky, she's been dead for over 5 years.

J. Marston

The best women's feud on Raw isn't even on TV...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHrYpJZnugq

https://twitter.com/LaceyEvansWWE/status/1328429881856815105

JP Liz V1

I'd love to see Sheamus get another world title reign

CastorTroy

Barely recognise Lacey with her hair like that.
How is Dana out after that attack. Sure she was barely touched.
At least Reckoning did something.

So 4 out of 5 of the Raw Team members were Smackdown until a few weeks ago?
And where was the invasion?

Wonder how shocked Keith Lee will be to find out Retribution consists of his long term girlfriend as well as a good friend.

Angel Garza and Peter Avalon seem to be doing similar gimmicks these days.

sky88

caught the 2 title matches really good i though especially the tag team title match

LineOfBeauty

And the figures are out! This week is super interesting to see 1. How much a hotshot angle can impact things still for WWE and 2. What level of star power we're dealing with in Orton and Drew in a big title match main event position.

1.78 total viewers so, maybe a bump of around 100k on normal viewership you'd expect which is pretty minimal and I'm probably being kind. Then 3rd hour, where the title match was, still the lowest hour, though dod beat hour 2 in 18-49.

Make of it what you will, but I doubt anyone in WWE will think those numbers make great reading.

beakerjoe

Loved the tag match. Really felt fresh and couldnt call a winner. The pre match promo from the New Day was abysmal.

Team Raws shenanigans isnt top of the card material but it was entertaining. AJ is a likable goof.

The main event was very telegraphed so the title change didnt do much for me accept for putting it on the right man. The focus since Smackdown has been all Drew, so it was obvious IMO.

It really makes you wonder about Ortons title reign. Why on earth do it if your gonna do this so quickly. It be different if Edge cost him the gold perhaps, but to lose clean here makes his reign that more strange. Like it never happened.

Im imagining a screwy finish come Sunday or a Bait and switch. WWE really book themselves into a dead end with the year on year booking of always having it Raw v Smackdown.

How would I book Sunday..... I wouldnt. Its a money make and needs more than 2 weeks build.

Depending on how they book Mania, whether its Drew vs Roman or Edge or Big E.... both men need to come out of this strong.

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

And the figures are out! This week is super interesting to see 1. How much a hotshot angle can impact things still for WWE and 2. What level of star power we're dealing with in Orton and Drew in a big title match main event position.

1.78 total viewers so, maybe a bump of around 100k on normal viewership you'd expect which is pretty minimal and I'm probably being kind. Then 3rd hour, where the title match was, still the lowest hour, though dod beat hour 2 in 18-49.

Make of it what you will, but I doubt anyone in WWE will think those numbers make great reading.

The match was hotshotted but the angle was not.... I think.

I wasnt expecting a huge jump as it was all half arsed. We had already seen Drew v Randy in arguably average matches. I had no desire to see it.

Now had they hotshotted Keith Lee, Big E or a top NXT star on a weeks notice.... Id be more inclined to watch live to see if they could reach the top. Drew v Randy again after 3 previous matches.... it didnt do anything for me.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

The match was hotshotted but the angle was not.... I think.

I wasnt expecting a huge jump as it was all half arsed. We had already seen Drew v Randy in arguably average matches. I had no desire to see it.

Now had they hotshotted Keith Lee, Big E or a top NXT star on a weeks notice.... Id be more inclined to watch live to see if they could reach the top. Drew v Randy again after 3 previous matches.... it didnt do anything for me.

Match or angle, I don't know but hotshotted is the word. Was this title match even advertised the previous week? I'm not asking in a smart way, I really don't know. And then changing the champion the week of a ppv and changing 1 of the main matches of the ppv. For all the talk of "this is Orton's best year ever" and that he's a big star this is just another example that, outside of WWE's hierarchy, there's nothing to back that up.

But anyway, when even a big title switch doesn't sway the number very much you know there's something wrong.

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Match or angle, I don't know but hotshotted is the word. Was this title match even advertised the previous week? I'm not asking in a smart way, I really don't know. And then changing the champion the week of a ppv and changing 1 of the main matches of the ppv. For all the talk of "this is Orton's best year ever" and that he's a big star this is just another example that, outside of WWE's hierarchy, there's nothing to back that up.

But anyway, when even a big title switch doesn't sway the number very much you know there's something wrong.

But the WWE problems are there the last 10....14 years. Year after year of poor booking. Its not a new trend. The problems are deep and systematic. Their whole product needs an overhaul and a change at the top.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

But the WWE problems are there the last 10....14 years. Year after year of poor booking. Its not a new trend. The problems are deep and systematic. Their whole product needs an overhaul and a change at the top.

Oh I agree, there's far larger problems at play than just "Orton doesn't draw" or "nobody cares about Drew"

I think I said it in my original post, the proof was in the pudding this morning post title switch, 10 years ago you're talking hot major news, today I can honestly say except for a couple of mentions my bubble was completely meh to it. 10 years ago that reaction is unthinkable.

beakerjoe

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Oh I agree, there's far larger problems at play than just "Orton doesn't draw" or "nobody cares about Drew"

I think I said it in my original post, the proof was in the pudding this morning post title switch, 10 years ago you're talking hot major news, today I can honestly say except for a couple of mentions my bubble was completely meh to it. 10 years ago that reaction is unthinkable.

But nothing will ever improve. The basic structure of their shows is beyond stale 3 hours of it is just horrible.

Its never changed in years and its the main cause of their ratings decline. AEW and even NXT is infinitely more entertaining and digestible.

I have never seen a poor Dynamite.... theyve had disappointing shows by their high standards but nothing utterly terrible.

NXT is similar, its had poor weeks but never anything extremely horrible or change the channel bad.

For every positive thing Raw or SD does, its hamstringed by poor booking, 3 hours or just plain horrible sterile presentation.

They have so much talent, yet the misuse it time and time again. Covids no fans hasnt helped but Ive got past it with AEW and NXT because there is usually something very entertaining at the core.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

But nothing will ever improve. The basic structure of their shows is beyond stale 3 hours of it is just horrible.

Its never changed in years and its the main cause of their ratings decline. AEW and even NXT is infinitely more entertaining and digestible.

I have never seen a poor Dynamite.... theyve had disappointing shows by their high standards but nothing utterly terrible.

NXT is similar, its had poor weeks but never anything extremely horrible or change the channel bad.

For every positive thing Raw or SD does, its hamstringed by poor booking, 3 hours or just plain horrible sterile presentation.

They have so much talent, yet the misuse it time and time again. Covids no fans hasnt helped but Ive got past it with AEW and NXT because there is usually something very entertaining at the core.

I agree, without getting into it too much everything from how they produce TV, to how they tell stories, to how completely generic everyone sounds, the lack of any spontaneity, how they train their wrestlers, literally every single thing about watching WWE is frustrating from the point of view of a wrestling fan. And I get it, I'm not the target audience, they don't want wrestling fans, but I genuinely try to put myself into the shoes of a Ryan Satin or someone who sits down and watches 7 hours of weekly WWE TV every week (I swear I'd rather die than do that) and actually enjoys it and for the life of me I can't understand how. I honestly can't. It's awful pro wrestling that wants to be TV to me. It's awful TV that's just wrestling to a randomer who turns it on. Who does this thing appeal to?

This is the Raw thread so I won't go too far on this but NXT too has been awful since it went to USA. They had a brand that did differentiate itself, that had a different feel to it, that seemed to appeal to a wrestling audience, a younger viewer. Well, it went to USA and we found out that younger viewers didn't care about it and then, slowly but surely it's morphed into just an extension of Raw and SD. I used to watch it every week, but in the same way I just can't sit through Raw and SD, a couple months ago I finally gave up on it. It's just another main roster brand now with all of the stupidity, silliness and nonsensical storytelling of the other brands.

When the fans come back there'll be a bump, like there was the 1st week of Raw Underground or the first few weeks of the Thunder dome but pre Covid ratings were trending downwards and, once the initial bump fades, I'd expect it to return to that pattern.

And, finally (!), for the life of me I can't understand how this company that has like a 300 wrestlers on the payroll or something stupid like that, a multi million dollar performance center too, still rely on Randy Orton, Undertaker (at Survivor Series), Edge (Mania) and then guys who are absolutely useless like Wyatt. How in the name of God do you have a roster with the likes of Owens, Bryan, Styles, Cole, O'Reilly, Strong, Zayn, Ricochet and God knows who else I'm forgetting and still rely on old guys or guys who can't draw or work. It boggles the mind. The problem is so much larger than who works on top but at least give yourself a fighting chance!

The Ayatolla

CastorTroy wrote: »

It's a storyline fine, I'm sure, for laying hands on Adam Pearce last week.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

It is a kayfabe fine for putting is hands on Adam Pearce.

Only two! Dang.

JP Liz V1

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Of course it will. Drew needs a new challenger after Orton & Reigns.

I expect an appearance from Mammy McIntyre, who will be Brogue Kicked into oblivion.

hynesie08 wrote: »

Bit tricky, she's been dead for over 5 years.

Vince would not do another Katie Vick storyline

gerrybbadd

hynesie08 wrote: »

Bit tricky, she's been dead for over 5 years.

Is that WWE canon though? Sorry, i'm not keeping up with the current storylines really at all.

They could always bring in Andrew senior for a few smacks about

CastorTroy

Well when Drew and Sheamus were talking they referred to her in past tense.

beakerjoe

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Vince would not do another Katie Vick storyline

Anything can haopen in the WWF pal.

Omackeral

beakerjoe wrote: »

Anything can haopen in the WWF pal.

UN-BELIEVABLE!!!!!

JP Liz V1

J. Marston wrote: »

The best women's feud on Raw isn't even on TV...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHrYpJZnugq

https://twitter.com/LaceyEvansWWE/status/1328429881856815105

I thought Lacey was doing well as a face on SD, then heel turn for no reason and out of the title scene

PTH2009

Hope they do Sheamus vs Drew for the title

Orton still around though unless he's taking time off and Miz has the MITB

PTH2009

Team Raw getting a reward for there dominance

So they all have to state there case and the winning argument gets the title shot against Drew. Yeah that will go well and according too plan :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Agent Coulson

The stoner bro is needs to fcuk off

daithi1989

So.. Braun’s the new Big Show! Another turn! Thats about 4-5 this year alone.

PTH2009

Swear Adam Pearce has been shot

Braun will either get suspended or will have to go through anger management

Agent Coulson

Braun pushing Adam Pearce down to the ring floor was one of the most heinous things the commentary team have ever seen in the WWE.

Seriously this is why WWE is dying a long slow death.

CastorTroy

It was so bad that everyone quit watching? Wasn't it a headbutt rather than a push? But yeah, was half expecting them to show him being stretchered out and on his way to a local medical facility.

Was sure they weren't going to mention Drew losing since they just talked about him winning the title last week. But then they showed the video from SS.

So Lana and Asuka now have the rights to a tag title match?

Since I've seen a few doing it now between Alexa and the Rascalz, I was curious what the whole wriggling the fingers under the chin thing was. Oddly enough it's American sign language for "dirty" though doubt they know that and it's just something they do.

Saw Bray coming over the barrier before the lights went out.

J. Marston

Riddle made me laugh here, I think he almost made MVP laugh too.

https://streamable.com/7h933r

And in an example of WWE being hyper-produced, Keith Lee's chair breaks on Raw Talk and everyone has a laugh with it before Charly says "We're gonna have you stand up. It's not me, it's actually being demanded." Translation; Vince is barking in my ear.

https://streamable.com/q318m3

CastorTroy

Yeah meant to say MVP clearly wasn't expecting that.

That clip of Charly saying she's always up for some entertainment while wearing a jacket like that has my mind going places.

Loughc

J. Marston wrote: »

And in an example of WWE being hyper-produced, Keith Lee's chair breaks on Raw Talk and everyone has a laugh with it before Charly says "We're gonna have you stand up. It's not me, it's actually being demanded." Translation; Vince is barking in my ear.

https://streamable.com/q318m3

I doubt it was Vince, AFAIK, Vince doesn't watch Raw Talk and never watched Talking Smack, that's why often on these shows they get to show so much personality.

JP Liz V1

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1331252381724659713

LineOfBeauty

The ratings for last night's show that come out later are pretty interesting. Post ppv usually means a bump, but coming out of Survivor Series and post show I can't remember many Raws where I've seen so few people talking about it, on top of that it's been largely panned.

Lord TSC

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1331252381724659713

Hmm, wellness suspension? Or a realization that Brawn as "Uncontrolable monster" is his best selling point.

Loughc

Lord TSC wrote: »

Hmm, wellness suspension?

Storyline suspension. WWE are currently advertising a Drew-Braun title match at TLC which goes against their currently programming so shennaigans next week during the triple threat I assume.


I imagine Braun will threaten Pearse somehow.


So since when is Pearse properly in charge, can they not do the GM role again?

Loughc

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

The ratings for last night's show that come out later are pretty interesting. Post ppv usually means a bump, but coming out of Survivor Series and post show I can't remember many Raws where I've seen so few people talking about it, on top of that it's been largely panned.

Simply put people are just OVER iT when it comes to WWE.


I'd be worried for the next tv rights renewal.

Omackeral

Loughc wrote: »

Simply put people are just OVER iT when it comes to WWE.

I am done with WWE. Honestly am. Only thing I'll watch are Rumble and Mania. I enjoy NXTUK because it's an hour long and there's no mental case blasting the cut button every two or three seconds.

PTH2009

We will see Shenanigans in next weeks triple threat No1 contenders match and we get a fatal 4 way at TLC but is the match actually set for TLC or will it just be one of those TV title matches

Christ Riddle as WWE champion

Cotts72

PTH2009 wrote: »

We will see Shenanigans in next weeks triple threat No1 contenders match and we get a fatal 4 way at TLC but is the match actually set for TLC or will it just be one of those TV title matches

Christ Riddle as WWE champion

BROOOoooo 😂

JP Liz V1

PTH2009 wrote: »

We will see Shenanigans in next weeks triple threat No1 contenders match and we get a fatal 4 way at TLC but is the match actually set for TLC or will it just be one of those TV title matches

Christ Riddle as WWE champion

2020 is bad enough as it is

The White Wolf

Riddle feels like what McMahon wanted in RVD; someone who will do any kind of dumb sh1t he's asked.

JP Liz V1

PTH2009 wrote: »

Hope they do Sheamus vs Drew for the title

Orton still around though unless he's taking time off and Miz has the MITB

Orton is Bliss's guest tonight so him vs. Bray again likely

PTH2009

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Orton is Bliss's guest tonight so him vs. Bray again likely

Orton the legend killer is afraid of a fat lad in a mask

WWE sometimes :rolleyes:

JP Liz V1

PTH2009 wrote: »

Orton the legend killer is afraid of a fat lad in a mask

WWE sometimes :rolleyes:

RKO to Bliss, I assume Nikki Cross will be get involved ?

J. Marston

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

RKO to Bliss, I assume Nikki Cross will be get involved ?

If only, kill off that stupid character.

Whatever about being afraid of Fiend but Orton will be acting unsettled and spooked out by Bliss just smiling at him which is infinitely dumber.

Agent Coulson

Bliss really has nailed this gimmick.

Agent Coulson

Just like Matt in AEW Jeff needs to stop with these garbage hardcore gimmick matches.