RAW Superthread

J. Marston

Garza and Carmella. Christ alive...

I cannot stand Garza. Carmella's new "I'm hot" gimmick is rubbish and Peyton is the unfunny one from the Iconics. Cesaro? The boat sailed on him about 5 years ago.

Lithium93_

TimesArrow wrote: »

https://wrestlingnews.co/wwe-news/vince-mcmahon-is-looking-to-shake-things-up-again-this-monday-on-raw/

CastorTroy wrote: »

Oh oh

To quote Han Solo.

I have a very bad feeling about this.



Though the question must be asked; had Vince just left Heyman to what he was doing, taking time to build new stars instead of canning him for Bruce Prichard, would it have made a difference, or would ratings still plummet regardless?

Loughc

I for one am looking forward to see whatever half baked idea they conjure up and abandon it with no explanation 2 weeks later.

The White Wolf

I'd be curious to know if anyone thinks Vince can turn things around without changing his priorities.

Like with the roster he has what angle could he do that could turn things around in weeks, without breaking assurances to his tv contract or sponsors.

CastorTroy

How are Christmas viewing figures usually? Like is now the time to change things up?

Loughc

CastorTroy wrote: »

How are Christmas viewing figures usually? Like is now the time to change things up?

I stand corrected here but I always thought the Christmas shows were traditional the lowest of the year anyway.

oldtimeyfella

J. Marston wrote: »

Garza and Carmella. Christ alive...

I cannot stand Garza. Carmella's new "I'm hot" gimmick is rubbish and Peyton is the unfunny one from the Iconics. Cesaro? The boat sailed on him about 5 years ago.

Isn't Cesaro banged up to the point where him having to retire is 50/50? I have no idea who Garza is and Carmella could barely run the ropes when i stopped watching WWE regularly.


This is what the crack writing team comes up with? Just get Cornette or Jarrett or some other old school wrasslin' guy to write the show for you instead. What have you got to lose?

Smacruairi

How to fix the ratings!?
What does everybody want?
What does everybody love?
What does everybody need?

But seeing as they won't go smutty, I don't see why they don't do what did them well, have the wwe championship as a superweight belt with a Lesnar type on top, and then focus on the US and Inter titles as the ones you build your weekly shows around.

Let Roman and Fiend and Drew come in every month and put on strong matches, have them do the tag match with the underdog Intercontinental challenger (think Austin and xpac vs taker and Shane) and you have tag and women's fill out the rest.

Think going to the main event well absolutely every week just means nothing feels special.

Agent Coulson

How long before Prichard is back on the podcast touring scene refusing to say anything interesting at all.

J. Marston

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2020/12/usa-network-reportedly-upset-with-wwe-raw-ratings-678152/

USA Network are "furious" and want more adult content. But not sexy adult, more dark and violent adult.

oldtimeyfella

Smacruairi wrote: »

How to fix the ratings!?
What does everybody want?
What does everybody love?
What does everybody need?

But seeing as they won't go smutty, I don't see why they don't do what did them well, have the wwe championship as a superweight belt with a Lesnar type on top, and then focus on the US and Inter titles as the ones you build your weekly shows around.

Let Roman and Fiend and Drew come in every month and put on strong matches, have them do the tag match with the underdog Intercontinental challenger (think Austin and xpac vs taker and Shane) and you have tag and women's fill out the rest.

Think going to the main event well absolutely every week just means nothing feels special.

The lower titles in WWE are pretty much meaningless at this stage, there's too many of them and they have zero prestige. Hell, even the top title ends up being irrelevant most of the time because Brock or some auld lad has it and they only show up every now and then.


Other than that they put it on Roman, Bray or Seth,all of which no one but the most dyed in the wool WWE heads care about.

CastorTroy

Cutting to 2 hours wouldn't be a bad thing.
I remember when they started the 3 hour thing they claimed it would showcase the lesser seen talent Glad it works like that as we never see The Miz, Morrisson, Randy, Bray, AJ, Nia, Shayna, etc.
And how many of them appear multiple times despite not even wanting to see Nia even once per week.

Then I remember saying how the guys who pretty much helped carry the shows through the lockdown will probably be forgotten about. I'm not saying they were popular and I know other issues but Garza, Andrade, Humberto and others were knocked down the card long before anything happened with Zelina.

Agent Coulson

Reports tonight that USA are very unhappy and furious with the ratings and they want more adult action not sexy but more darker and violent.

When RAW is drawing 1.5m viewers and The Miz and Mrs is drawing 500k viewers on the same Network could the WWE say they are getting 2m viewers.

beakerjoe

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Reports tonight that USA are very unhappy and furious with the ratings and they want more adult action not sexy but more darker and violent.

When RAW is drawing 1.5m viewers and The Miz and Mrs is drawing 500k viewers on the same Network could the WWE say they are getting 2m viewers.

Arent Miz and Mrs doing better than Raw, or did I imagine that.

Agent Coulson

beakerjoe wrote: »

Arent Miz and Mrs doing better than Raw, or did I imagine that.

In the 18-49 demo they are/were I do remember reading that.

They were drawing a million viewers an episode last season so they have lost half their viewers.


I wonder has USA just lost its Audience in general across the board.

beakerjoe

CastorTroy wrote: »

Cutting to 2 hours wouldn't be a bad thing.
I remember when they started the 3 hour thing they claimed it would showcase the lesser seen talent Glad it works like that as we never see The Miz, Morrisson, Randy, Bray, AJ, Nia, Shayna, etc.
And how many of them appear multiple times despite not even wanting to see Nia even once per week.

Then I remember saying how the guys who pretty much helped carry the shows through the lockdown will probably be forgotten about. I'm not saying they were popular and I know other issues but Garza, Andrade, Humberto and others were knocked down the card long before anything happened with Zelina.

WWE have a fantastic young roster who most if them have been victims of 50 50 booking.

Garza, Andrade, Riddle, Lee, Cedric, Lucha House Party, Riott Squad, Rusev, Murphy, Carrillo.... all potential stars if nooked right. WEae seem capable of only creating ome star at a time while AEW gets most people over to some degree.

Those who once looked strong like Aliester Black, who was once unbeaten for a long period, have been never capitalised upon.

The booking of Black in particular is mind boggling. Hot new star in the making, a good NXT run. A solid debut run in which he had a good series with Murphy and a a nice win over Lashley.

Then feuds with Seth Rollins.. . Surely the end game should be he goes to at least have a good PPV match with Rollins.... maybe go over. No. He gets pushed aside for a broken down Rey Mysterio and his green, bland kid. Black gets lost in the shuffle and turned heel for no reason against Kevin Owens.... gets jobbed out to a new big man (who also was jobbed out himself soon after).

And thats all before he gets taken off TV as a result of his wifes firing.

WWE cant make stars and they never will again until something big changes.

oldtimeyfella

beakerjoe wrote: »

WWE have a fantastic young roster who most if them have been victims of 50 50 booking.

Garza, Andrade, Riddle, Lee, Cedric, Lucha House Party, Riott Squad, Rusev, Murphy, Carrillo.... all potential stars if nooked right. WEae seem capable of only creating ome star at a time while AEW gets most people over to some degree.

Those who once looked strong like Aliester Black, who was once unbeaten for a long period, have been never capitalised upon.

The booking of Black in particular is mind boggling. Hot new star in the making, a good NXT run. A solid debut run in which he had a good series with Murphy and a a nice win over Lashley.

Then feuds with Seth Rollins.. . Surely the end game should be he goes to at least have a good PPV match with Rollins.... maybe go over. No. He gets pushed aside for a broken down Rey Mysterio and his green, bland kid. Black gets lost in the shuffle and turned heel for no reason against Kevin Owens.... gets jobbed out to a new big man (who also was jobbed out himself soon after).

And thats all before he gets taken off TV as a result of his wifes firing.

WWE cant make stars and they never will again until something big changes.

He was being built up for one of the establsihed WWE guys to beat. That's one of the main reasons hot indie talent is brought in.



Deny other organisations from using them, book them on a hot streak against no one important and then have Seth "Poundshop Omega" Rollins or Roman "The Rocks Cousin" Reigns beat them to show that the real stars were the WWE guys all along.


They will pay a guy/gal hundreds of thousands a year to keep them from working elsewhere in between putting them in angles where they end up looking like dorks with no chance of getting over just to devalue them.

LineOfBeauty

beakerjoe wrote: »

WWE have a fantastic young roster who most if them have been victims of 50 50 booking.

Garza, Andrade, Riddle, Lee, Cedric, Lucha House Party, Riott Squad, Rusev, Murphy, Carrillo.... all potential stars if nooked right. WEae seem capable of only creating ome star at a time while AEW gets most people over to some degree.

Those who once looked strong like Aliester Black, who was once unbeaten for a long period, have been never capitalised upon.

The booking of Black in particular is mind boggling. Hot new star in the making, a good NXT run. A solid debut run in which he had a good series with Murphy and a a nice win over Lashley.

Then feuds with Seth Rollins.. . Surely the end game should be he goes to at least have a good PPV match with Rollins.... maybe go over. No. He gets pushed aside for a broken down Rey Mysterio and his green, bland kid. Black gets lost in the shuffle and turned heel for no reason against Kevin Owens.... gets jobbed out to a new big man (who also was jobbed out himself soon after).

And thats all before he gets taken off TV as a result of his wifes firing.

WWE cant make stars and they never will again until something big changes.

The day Heyman lost the book the Black push was dead in the water. There was a very clear list of guys Heyman was determined to get over, all of whom have been killed stone dead with regards their pushes. I don't think there's a single Heyman project that WWE stuck with after they jettisoned him.

CastorTroy

They'll have a slight bump with the announcement of Vince being there due to ones tuning in out of curiosity. Some will stick around for another week or 2 but then leave again when they see things going back to the way they were.
I'm sure Lana being taken out of the TLC match to free up the spot for a return just before this announcement isn't a coincidence.

But they'll also just do what they normally do as well and bring in ones from NXT.

J. Marston

There's the desperate, and a I mean desperate, attempt at a ratings bump. "Legends Night" in two weeks.

The White Wolf

Going by the highlights it was more of the same as opposed to the shift in mentality that is needed.

It's not that there's anything wrong with Drew/Sheamus/Lee, or Orton/Bliss, but under the same conditions as always it's just a general feeling of indifference.

As Marston pointed out, Legends Night in two weeks, and Flair already gunning for Asuka's title, just tells you everything about where their head is at; deluded, stubborn and not taking the situation seriously at all. Falling back on the things they believe people want, as opposed to actually accepting they need to tear the whole thing down.

TimesArrow

They’re creatively bankrupt and are incapable of adapting and coming up with fresh new ideas and solutions.. they’ve pulled out the “legends” thing before.. a bunch of them standing around the back doing nothing is pointless.. they’ve tried lesbian angles, cuck storylines, swamp fights, removed a guys eye and now burned a monster clown alive all in the hope of creating edgy content and improving things. Unfortunately, until Vinces strange hold on creative is no longer there, I think things will continue to deteriorate and we’ll get more of the same crap week in week out

Agent Coulson

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Vince is going to throw all storylines out the window now and just react to those ratings calling in the retired big guns to promo those ratings up or Himself, Shane and Steph will return to TV.

Well there we go it only took a week to announce the retired big guns will be back.

oldtimeyfella

Leaning on everything that is making people not care about their produxt. Odd strategy.

If AEW beat that Legends Show then alarm bells are really going to start ringing at the networks.

beakerjoe

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

Leaning on everything that is making people not care about their produxt. Odd strategy.

If AEW beat that Legends Show then alarm bells are really going to start ringing at the networks.

Like it or not, these legends usually bump the number a little. Its a horrible long term strategy and one out of panic. Long term it does more damage.

Rock Lesnar

Is Austin advertised, although i think i heard him saying he wasnt happy with his appearance in march, so hopefully he stays away

CastorTroy

So no Vince then.

I think Charlotte had been watching a load of TNA/Impact while she was off. "Shayna Blazer"

So seems like Miz is going the route I suggested of saying he didn't technically cash in.

I know they seem to have trouble with wrestlers selling moves these days, but are they seriously not going to sell being burned alive?

J. Marston

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

Leaning on everything that is making people not care about their produxt. Odd strategy.

If AEW beat that Legends Show then alarm bells are really going to start ringing at the networks.

AEW scrape past NXT most weeks. They won't get within an ass's roar of the shìttiest Raw rating.

Lord TSC

I had been half tempted to watch in case they did something crazy after the viewing numbers disaster last week. But when I went on Reddit this morning and saw barely any clips from Raw on the front page of SquaredCircle, I didn’t bother. But this...

J. Marston wrote: »

There's the desperate, and a I mean desperate, attempt at a ratings bump. "Legends Night" in two weeks.

...ugh. The issue is most of them are too old to actually do anything nowadays. Hogan can’t drop a leg, let alone take a bump. I love Flair but it’s kind of sad seeing him do too much nowadays. That’s before the risks involved with the two of them and Covid

And while I think Austin is great, he’s been cutting the same pro o and running the same segment for years now. Whatever he says will be obsolete the week after...

oldtimeyfella

J. Marston wrote: »

AEW scrape past NXT most weeks. They won't get within an ass's roar of the shìttiest Raw rating.

They beat Raw in the demo like two weeks ago and beat Smackdown last week.......

Ratings don't work on total viewers alone.

J. Marston

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

They beat Raw in the demo like two weeks ago and beat Smackdown last week.......

Ratings don't work on total viewers alone.

I don't think they work on Meltzer-nomics either.

Go to a network and ask them if want a show with 800k viewers or a show with 1.5 million viewers.

Agent Coulson

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

They beat Raw in the demo like two weeks ago and beat Smackdown last week.......

Ratings don't work on total viewers alone.

Yes USA & Fox paid billions to get the 18-49 advertising demo money not the over 50’s advertisers who pay a lot less money for ads.

USA & Fox make there money from advertising revenue so if AEW or other Shows get that 18-49 viewers that where the advertising revenue will go.

oldtimeyfella

J. Marston wrote: »

I don't think they work on Meltzer-nomics either.

Go to a network and ask them if want a show with 800k viewers or a show with 1.5 million viewers.

They'll ask what the demographics of each group of these viewers are.

It isn't as simple as just numbers of people watching.

CastorTroy

I was wondering where Alexa had got to lately so she's back now

Neil3030

Why don't they just publish the raw totals in the key demo over time?

Especially when you're comparing the share between shows that are on different nights, when you have different audience sizes, different competing shows, etc.

A far simpler metric will show who is trending toward success (if indeed this key demo is what counts):

Show A: Number of weekly viewers in the key demo
Show B: Number of weekly viewers in the key demo

Plot both over time. See which shows are trending up, down or holding steady.

Agent Coulson

My take on the Legends.

* Alicia Fox

---

Not A Legend
* Beth Phoenix

---

Is Used on NXT so not really someone new.
* Big Show

---

Heel/Face/Heel turn by the end of the episode
* Boogeyman

---

There because of Booker.
* Booker T----Regular on PPV preshow
* Candice Michelle----Not A Legend
* Carlito

---

Class but Not A Legend, Also can't spit Apple in these Covid days.
* Hillbilly Jim

---

Legend.
* Hulk Hogan

---

RACIST
* IRS (Irwin R. Schyster)

---

Legend needs sons Bo & Windham there
* Ivory---Meh
* Jacqueline--Meh
* Jeff Jarrett--Sings With My Baby Meh
* Jimmy Hart--Legend but with Hogan so Meh.
* Kurt Angle--Legend.
* Mark Henry---Not A Legend for me but still nice to see.
* Melina----Not A Legend.
* Michael "PS" Hayes----Legend but not fit to be on screen.
* Mickie James---Regular on WWE regular programming.
* Ric Flair----Legend angle with daughter.
* Sgt. Slaughter----Legend will be great to see the Sarge.
* Tatanka---Not really a Legend but will be fun to see.
* Torrie Wilson---Sweet.


No Austin, Cena or Rock.

J. Marston

The Alexa stuff is the drizzling shíts. What's worse is I go on Reddit and see hundreds of posts talking about her "Marvelous character work".

What?!

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

AEW scrape past NXT most weeks. They won't get within an ass's roar of the shìttiest Raw rating.

They routinely almost double the NXT demo, only a couple weeks ago they tripled it...

beakerjoe

J. Marston wrote: »

The Alexa stuff is the drizzling shíts. What's worse is I go on Reddit and see hundreds of posts talking about her "Marvelous character work".

What?!

Im a WWE fan and will always want them to do well.

But you have to call a spade a spade.

Alexa and her child like cheerleader schtick is the worst. Its dumb no matter what way you spin it.

The Fiend story is bollox, its flashy and pushed hard, but its bollox. Yes it has the odd laugh and the odd flashback, and granted they tie is well to the Bray character of old, but its still bollox.

Ill give Bray credit, hail rain or shine he is committed. Never looks disinterested and always gives 100 percent character wise. That said, hes never ever wowed me in the ring except in multi man matches and while he is creative, the Fiend gimmick is just the worst.

Cherry_Cola

J. Marston wrote: »

The Alexa stuff is the drizzling shíts. What's worse is I go on Reddit and see hundreds of posts talking about her "Marvelous character work".

What?!

Basement dwelling simps basically.

PTH2009

Everyone was so cheery even after one of there locker room friends was burned alive. ****s knows where there going with the story

Riddle gets more annoying every week

Charlotte getting pushed harder than ever. yawn

Quite like where there going with Sheamus. Can see him facing Drew for the title at mania

Deeper Blue

J. Marston wrote: »

The Alexa stuff is the drizzling shíts. What's worse is I go on Reddit and see hundreds of posts talking about her "Marvelous character work".

What?!

Probably the same crowd that creamed themselves over the firefly funhouse match at Mania, when in reality it was the steamiest pile of shïte in wrestling history.

J. Marston

Hurt Business are the coolest stable WWE have had in a long time...

Officer999

Yeah agree with the Hurt Business. MVP returning at the Rumble didn’t excite me at all, but his been incredible since.

JP Liz V1

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1343688175487746048

PTH2009

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1343688175487746048

Yep no thanks

ill be recording raw and watching it tomorrow

J. Marston

Things are seriously grim when those two are being advertised.

JP Liz V1

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/1343680404264529920

beakerjoe

WWE pushing ahead with regular programming is the wrong call. So many on their roster are still grieving.

And a tribute show of sorts would be certainly better viewing IMO.

sky88

beakerjoe wrote: »

WWE pushing ahead with regular programming is the wrong call. So many on their roster are still grieving.

And a tribute show of sorts would be certainly better viewing IMO.

This is totally me and I know not everyone but when I’m grieving I do prefer having a regular day of work to distract myself from the grief

But mostly definitely would hope plenty of tributes will be paid on the show