RAW Superthread

LineOfBeauty

daithi1989 wrote: »

Stupid gimmick that still drew rating/views/got people talking!

If you don’t like the Alexa/Wyatt segments, then skip by them and watch the rest of the show. And I said, if you don’t like the product, why waste so much time a week watching? 3.5-4 hours (missus the ads!), just to give out about it! Strange.. Just my opinion!

It popped 1 rating. 1. I don't care who was talking, they weren't watching the show. They weren't buying ppvs. The benefit to the company was 1 popped rating. Stupid gimmick that didn't draw a dime.

And if how you defend something is with a "if you don't love it, leave it" argument then I don't think I need to say anything else.

LineOfBeauty

Smacruairi wrote: »

From the last few years alone, you have a lad in njpw who plays air guitar, you have a lad who wrestles with hands in his pockets in AEW, you had a lad who had 7deities in impact, you have the fiend in wwe. Face it, wrestling is a variety, and that's what sells m, especially in the mid card so u can take your champion so super serious.

And undertaker the only one in 30 years, yeah that's a ridiculous comment. Go to any ott event and they'll have a match in the middle that's just ridiculous ****e fun. When the bucks came here they took a phone call during the match for the lulz and got a "this is awesome chant". Wrestling is meant to be fun, if i just want strong style, i know where to go. Me, I like variety,and I very much think I'm not on my own.

OK let's go through those.

Tanahashi - the most ridiculous one first. It's a joke, nobody, not the crowd or him, believe he's playing an imaginary guitar. It's a cute show ender, not a universe destroying monstrosity with a delusional ex guitarist turned pro wrestler.

Orange Cassidy - mid card goof, whose matches differ significantly in AEW than they do on the indies so as not to be universe destroying. The heels don't sell the slow shin kicks, they laugh at him and then he turns it on and he catches you by surprise. He's not for me, but he's not a universe destroying wrestler and has no place in a conversation with The Fiend.

Broken Hardy is dirt and belongs in a bin.

I'm not looking for RINGS here or UWFI, and sure there'll be stuff on shows I don't like. And if the comedy is good then even better. But, when this stuff becomes the focus of your show, when it's in the main events, when it permeates other programmes, when the existence of it breaks the rules of your universe, that's when I have a problem.

And if you can point out a modern promotion outside of maybe Josh Barnett's Bloodsport deal that does a super serious card start to finish then please point me in that direction because I don't know of it. My problem isn't with an aspect of comedy, because in that company The Fiend stuff is not treated as comedy, it's when you bend the fundamental rules of your own company then everything from that point on is devalued.

Agent Coulson

1.8 rating the Rumble didn’t bring anyone to Raw

Smacruairi

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

My problem isn't with an aspect of comedy, because in that company The Fiend stuff is not treated as comedy, it's when you bend the fundamental rules of your own company then everything from that point on is devalued.

So you've shrugged off matt Hardy, you've shrugged off orange cassidy, did you enjoy the musical performance from jericho and mjf? What about - 1 being able to get his work in?

Look you clearly take your wrestling very seriously, I'm not looking for an argument at all. Fair play to you for the amount you watch, but maybe watching all the wwe product despite you clearly not liking it just comes across as masochistic is all.

RollieFingers

Only on Boards would you see Tanahashi playing air guitar being compared to the Fiends antics

daithi1989

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

It popped 1 rating. 1. I don't care who was talking, they weren't watching the show. They weren't buying ppvs. The benefit to the company was 1 popped rating. Stupid gimmick that didn't draw a dime.

And if how you defend something is with a "if you don't love it, leave it" argument then I don't think I need to say anything else.

And if you think Broken Matt Hardy “wasnt worth a dime”, then I don’t think I need to say anything else either, but I’ll give you one more post anyway!

Broken Matt was the most talked about Gimmick when he started it with TNA - I was at the WM when the Hardys returned, and 90%+ of the crowd chanting “Delete Delete Delete” showed the gimmick worked. On the way same D Bryan got “Yes Yes Yes” working, but you might not agree with that either!

The “E” in WWE is for entertainment - the Bliss/Wyatt segments add the “entertainment” side to it. Yes, it’s not everyone cup of tea, but its getting the views!

Last week, Bliss segment gets 5.4m views on Youtube; week before 2.1m and and Fireball with Orton was 4.5m - therefore it is getting the views! But hey, these have no place in Wrestling apparently!

LineOfBeauty

Smacruairi wrote: »

So you've shrugged off matt Hardy, you've shrugged off orange cassidy, did you enjoy the musical performance from jericho and mjf? What about - 1 being able to get his work in?

Look you clearly take your wrestling very seriously, I'm not looking for an argument at all. Fair play to you for the amount you watch, but maybe watching all the wwe product despite you clearly not liking it just comes across as masochistic is all.

I've not shrugged off Hardy. I've said the gimmick was trash. I've said the gimmick was never a draw (a fact backed up by ratings and ppv numbers). Where did I shrug him off?

I explained how Cassidy is a different case to Hardy/Wyatt. He's a mid card comedy guy that I've little time for, but he is not a universe destroying entity and I even gave a bit of detail about how his act has been modified by AEW compared to his indie work. Such depth is far from shrugging it off.

Had no time for the musical. But again, that's not a universe breaker and it was a once off thing too. It's not The Fiend.

Absolutely nothing about - 1 on Dynamite has been universe destroying. Also what a really weird, and kinda horrible, comparison honestly.

I don't watch the full weekly shows each week, I did this week and last, but I watch the highlights most weeks. That being said, how anyone can defend that Alexa/Fiend stuff is beyond me.

LineOfBeauty

daithi1989 wrote: »

And if you think Broken Matt Hardy “wasnt worth a dime”, then I don’t think I need to say anything else either, but I’ll give you one more post anyway!

Broken Matt was the most talked about Gimmick when he started it with TNA - I was at the WM when the Hardys returned, and 90%+ of the crowd chanting “Delete Delete Delete” showed the gimmick worked. On the way same D Bryan got “Yes Yes Yes” working, but you might not agree with that either!

The “E” in WWE is for entertainment - the Bliss/Wyatt segments add the “entertainment” side to it. Yes, it’s not everyone cup of tea, but its getting the views!

Last week, Bliss segment gets 5.4m views on Youtube; week before 2.1m and and Fireball with Orton was 4.5m - therefore it is getting the views! But hey, these have no place in Wrestling apparently!

Cool. So, I've said he popped one rating. Aside from that 1(!!!) rating, give me a quarter hour that he popped. Show me a ppv buy rate that he popped. Seriously, you're telling me this guy was the hottest thing in wrestling, back it up. Show me a number he's responsible for outside of 1 good Impact rating. You can't. Know why? It doesn't exist! For comparison sake, I can point out, in a variety of ways, how the Omega/Callis story has popped numbers for Impact, how it's increased demo viewership and increased numbers on their Twitch stream. Know why I can do that? Because it happened and those numbers are readily available.

"it's getting the views" ironically, it isn't though is it. In fact Raw's rating decline has not been turned around by The Fiend. In the quarter hours The Fiend does not pop strong numbers (especially for a main event pushed wrestler) Bliss does not have strong quarter hours either so who exactly is watching because of these two. YouTube views? They mean next to nothing! And have practically zero effect on anything. Where it matters, in TV ratings, these two are a bust.

And I'd be sympathetic but RollieFingers just posted this week's ratings on the thread. Those numbers are available to you, the deeper breakdowns are available too. So no, don't tell me they're "getting the views" when the ratings breakdown each week tell me that that's blatantly untrue.

J. Marston

Edge teasing that he's gonna be on NXT this week.

ThePott

J. Marston wrote: »

Edge teasing that he's gonna be on NXT this week.

He did mention wanting to face Finn around the time NXT Takeover Dublin was meant to happen but of course it won't happen. Cool to see them interact though if they do.

EDIT- Been confirmed now that he will be on NXT on Wednesday.

J. Marston

Yep, official now.

https://twitter.com/WWENXT/status/1356752316725145602?s=19

daithi1989

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Cool. So, I've said he popped one rating. Aside from that 1(!!!) rating, give me a quarter hour that he popped. Show me a ppv buy rate that he popped. Seriously, you're telling me this guy was the hottest thing in wrestling, back it up. Show me a number he's responsible for outside of 1 good Impact rating. You can't. Know why? It doesn't exist! For comparison sake, I can point out, in a variety of ways, how the Omega/Callis story has popped numbers for Impact, how it's increased demo viewership and increased numbers on their Twitch stream. Know why I can do that? Because it happened and those numbers are readily available.

"it's getting the views" ironically, it isn't though is it. In fact Raw's rating decline has not been turned around by The Fiend. In the quarter hours The Fiend does not pop strong numbers (especially for a main event pushed wrestler) Bliss does not have strong quarter hours either so who exactly is watching because of these two. YouTube views? They mean next to nothing! And have practically zero effect on anything. Where it matters, in TV ratings, these two are a bust.

And I'd be sympathetic but RollieFingers just posted this week's ratings on the thread. Those numbers are available to you, the deeper breakdowns are available too. So no, don't tell me they're "getting the views" when the ratings breakdown each week tell me that that's blatantly untrue.

If you want to talk bout TNA viewership, and how Omega/Callis popped their numbers; they went from 166k to 221k (from an article I read, but open to correction). During Broken Matt Hardy days, they were drawing 300k, jumping to 410k for match vs Jeff (presuming this in the “one pop” you keep going on about?) So Omega/Callis hasnt even brought them back to where Hardy had them!

Most shows ratings are dropping due to developing ways to watch TV now. NBA and NFL also have a decline in numbers. And before you state what viewership used to be, I know they arent what they used to be. Lack of a crowd is a contributing factor to this also, in my opinion.

You mentioned that you watch highlights most week; presuming Youtube is one of the most popular videos website, its safe to assume that Youtube views do mean something then, as others who dont watch live may also do the same!

Also begs the question; if you dont like Wyatt/Bliss, why you watch these highlights to know whats going on!?

I’ll be honest, I’d rather watch a Bray/Bliss segment than a lad with his Hands in his pockets!

Anyway, I’m done with this debate now. Think its best we just agree to disagree!

The Ayatolla

Yes, Edge is gone for nearly ten years to come back and fight the NXT Champion at Wrestlemania.

LineOfBeauty

daithi1989 wrote: »

If you want to talk bout TNA viewership, and how Omega/Callis popped their numbers; they went from 166k to 221k (from an article I read, but open to correction). During Broken Matt Hardy days, they were drawing 300k, jumping to 410k for match vs Jeff (presuming this in the “one pop” you keep going on about?)

Most shows ratings are dropping due to developing ways to watch TV now. NBA and NFL also have a decline in numbers. And before you state what viewership used to be, I know they arent what they used to be. Lack of a crowd is a contributing factor to this also, in my opinion.

You mentioned that you watch highlights most week; presuming Youtube is one of the most popular videos website, its safe to assume that Youtube views do mean something then, as others who dont watch live may also do the same!

Also begs the question; if you dont like Wyatt/Bliss, why you watch these highlights to know whats going on!?

I’ll be honest, I’d rather watch a Bray/Bliss segment than a lad with his Hands in his pockets!

Anyway, I’m done with this debate now. Think its best we just agree to disagree!

Infact if you span out his run thus far you'll see an increase in total viewers but, more importantly, a heavy increase in their Demo numbers. Directly correlating with the Omega story. It's a good example (because it's the same company) of what a drawing story looks like and what a non drawing story looked like because after the initial Broken thing it was done, diminishing returns that diminished extremely fast.

That's something people always say yet WWE's viewing figures has declined more than those other brands so that never holds up either.

Actually I gif, it doesn't matter a jot though unless they turn those views into weekly viewers (which ratings show they can't do) or Network subscribers (they haven't or they wouldn't have sold the thing).

And correlating a mid card comedy act with a male and female main eventer and a story that regularly appears in several segments of Raw and in big ppv matches seems a little disingenuous at best.

LineOfBeauty

Just a bit of context too. In a year that's been absolutely dominated by The Fiend and all of that type of nonsense. Raw's rating was 1.8 million, 500,000 fans down on where last year's post Raw Rumble was. 500,000 people and I've got people telling me "but people like to watch The Fiend" you either have the numbers to back up your case or not and this one is cut and dry, The Fiend stuff has absolutely been a contributing factor in running off large swathes of the audience.

daithi1989

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Just a bit of context too. In a year that's been absolutely dominated by The Fiend and all of that type of nonsense. Raw's rating was 1.8 million, 500,000 fans down on where last year's post Raw Rumble was. 500,000 people and I've got people telling me "but people like to watch The Fiend" you either have the numbers to back up your case or not and this one is cut and dry, The Fiend stuff has absolutely been a contributing factor in running off large swathes of the audience.

You're now just arguing with yourself at this point! As my last post ended "Think its best we just agree to disagree"

LineOfBeauty

daithi1989 wrote: »

You're now just arguing with yourself at this point! As my last post ended "Think its best we just agree to disagree"

I'm not arguing! I'm pointing out a harrowing fact that appeared on my timeline this morning.

The White Wolf

So weird to hear Jeff refer to himself and Carlito as old timers.

TimesArrow

Orton v McIntyre scheduled for Raw AGAIN.. they just don’t give a **** do they?

Loughc

TimesArrow wrote: »

Orton v McIntyre scheduled for Raw AGAIN.. they just don’t give a **** do they?

Nope. US networks keep throwing money at them regardless of the shîtè they keep churning out.

Furious-Red

TimesArrow wrote: »

Orton v McIntyre scheduled for Raw AGAIN.. they just don’t give a **** do they?

Which will probably end up in a DQ or interferace from Bliss/Sheamus

PTH2009

Furious-Red wrote: »

Which will probably end up in a DQ or interferace from Bliss/Sheamus

No Doubt

Billy Ocean

TimesArrow wrote: »

Orton v McIntyre scheduled for Raw AGAIN.. they just don’t give a **** do they?

they're trolling people at this stage...

J. Marston

I think Bray will return with a melted face.

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

I'm not arguing! I'm pointing out a harrowing fact that appeared on my timeline this morning.

Harrowing.

beakerjoe

TimesArrow wrote: »

Orton v McIntyre scheduled for Raw AGAIN.. they just don’t give a **** do they?

Like what ever segment the have planned for either of them should separate.

The run everthing into the ground until even the most interesting feud goes stale.

PTH2009

Shane O Mac is back

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Drew will defend his title in the Elimination Chamber match against Randy Orton (FFS), Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles, The Miz and Sheamus

seandotcomm

maybe it's the suit but Flair's looking fierce round in the face.

PTH2009

Edge once again keeping his options open

undertaker fan 88

Bar the finish in the orton match i found that a very solid raw.

irish_stevo815

PTH2009 wrote: »

Shane O Mac is back

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Drew will defend his title in the Elimination Chamber match against Randy Orton (FFS), Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles, The Miz and Sheamus

Any chance of seeing Edge vs AJ at Mania for the title? Or for some nostalgia, Edge vs Jeff?

Loughc

undertaker fan 88 wrote: »

Bar the finish in the orton match i found that a very solid raw.

Just from reading the reports the writing this week does seem to be more settled, helps there was no Fiend antics this week.

Headshot

I think Nia has a job for life after this:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1358982270317703168

B.A._Baracus

Headshot wrote: »

I think Nia has a job for life after this:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1358982270317703168

She barely lifted her leg off the apron! :pac:

**Edit
Should have had the sound on haha.

The White Wolf

PTH2009 wrote: »

Edge once again keeping his options open

Was only thinking the same.

It's be nice to have a Rumble winner with a clear purpose again.

Jax with a bit of nice spontaneous working but they'll be making t shirts out of it and making a weekly forced thing of it in no time.

Lord TSC

So Raw has a clear title program set up in Drew vs Sheamus. A perfect filler feud.

Smackdown has multiple people with claims to title shots, including a few who were screwed out of it.

So...Raw gets a chamber match? :S What? All this does is make me think they've decided Drew ain't going into Mania as champion, and need to move the title off him.....

ThePott

Lord TSC wrote: »

So Raw has a clear title program set up in Drew vs Sheamus. A perfect filler feud.

Smackdown has multiple people with claims to title shots, including a few who were screwed out of it.

So...Raw gets a chamber match? :S What? All this does is make me think they've decided Drew ain't going into Mania as champion, and need to move the title off him.....

This, I don't understand why Raw got the Chamber, it really seemed like they actually built up people on Smackdown for it. Some of the Raw entrants make no sense either, why is Miz there when he has the briefcase for one? Didn't even realise that EC was so close tbh. Seems pretty clear from this too that Edge is challenging Roman for Mania. Did anyone else think for a brief minute that Shane was going to insert himself?

Aside from that this was a decent Raw, better than previous weeks. No Fiend stuff at all this week which is a surprise. The Lacey/Charlotte match was a dud and seemingly this is the Mania feud so that's not great. I'm liking Bad Bunny's involvement more than I should and the fact the gave him those 3D graphics and pyro pretty much solidifies for me that he is gonna have a match with Priest at Mania. Nice to see Keith Lee back, that US title match has some serious potential.

Mustafa Ali gave a great promo on Raw Talk too.

J. Marston

Edge tore Miz to ribbons on the mic. Great promo.

CastorTroy

seandotcomm wrote: »

maybe it's the suit but Flair's looking fierce round in the face.

Thought the same. Vey round and red.

Is it too much to hope that Nia going through the table writes her off tv for at least a year?

What was the point of Shane being there? Then Drew with a heel reaction asking why he didn't get a heads up.

I agree with the fact the Chamber match was already built on Smackdown. Guess that means the Smackdown women get the chamber? That would be Sasha, Carmella, Bayley, Liv, Ruby and Natalya?

Bianca needs to act like a challenger. On both Smackdown and Raw she was all upbeat and friendly. Not exactly giving off the same "Watch your back!" attitude Edge has.

Bad Bunny heel turn teased? Wearing socks with sandals.

LineOfBeauty

Big oooof at that Raw Chamber lineup.

Nia Jax stole the show though, "my hole!" will live on in infamy forever.

TimesArrow

It’s a solid line up for the raw chamber with all former champions. However, everyone in the match bar drew is over 40 and you could argue they missed a chance to give someone younger the chance to shine in this match

LineOfBeauty

TimesArrow wrote: »

It’s a solid line up for the raw chamber with all former champions. However, everyone in the match bar drew is over 40 and you could argue they missed a chance to give someone younger the chance to shine in this match

It's a Chamber with guys who've, aside from Styles, been on WWE TV forever, the majority of whom, peaked in the decade before last. If it were like Pro Wrestling NOAH and you're working with the cards you're given then I can muster up some sympathy but this is WWE and they've got a million guys to choose from and they've ended up with Miz, Orton, Sheamus and Jeff Hardy in 2021. That's damning.

Agent Coulson

The Nia Jax thing looks completely staged to me.

She hurts herself and makes a bit of a fool out of herself shouting my hole.

That will make up for her hurting so many over the last few years now that she has her comeuppance

CastorTroy

That's her not taking the thing seriously. Her whole attitude comes across to me as someone who thinks she can coast by and still get a decent spot. And WWE aren't exactly helping matters.

J. Marston

Riddle/Lee/Lashley should be a great match.

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

Riddle/Lee/Lashley should be a great match.

As a rule of thumb, triple threats are almost never great.

TimesArrow

Why is hardy in the match? He’s a mid carder who loses every week..

Shane’s non advertised appearance was nothing short of bizarre.. could there be more to this? I hate to say it, but could the seeds have been sowed for Drew v Shane at Mania.. i think that’s where this is leading..

In my opinion, everything that has followed edges rumble return last year has been a busted flush. Really have no interest in this version of the character. Overly serious, dull promos and he just isn’t entertaining.. edge was great when he had some humour and personality- where is any of that?

riffmongous

Were Christian or Carlito there last night?

PTH2009

It was a meh Raw but match quality was decent and demonstrated how bad Nia Jax is

Odd having no mention of Bliss/Fiend an there antics, maybe saving it for something massive

JP Liz V1

Why is Adam Pearce and Shane O Mac on Raw, underground fight club returning?

I did LOL at Nia

2ndcoming

TimesArrow wrote: »

Why is hardy in the match? He’s a mid carder who loses every week..

For the bumps dammit.