RAW Superthread

764dak

PTH2009 wrote: »

A bit heelish there from Rollins mentioning triple h/Steph's kids

I hope we see the triple h of old when he shows up and beats the crap out of Rollins, I hope we see the type of confrontation where the whole locker room has too come out and separate them

HHH was all talk and all he did was provide a distraction for Samoa Joe.

Ben Gadot

PTH2009 wrote: »

A bit heelish there from Rollins mentioning triple h/Steph's kids

Aye, just further illustrates the hatchet job they've done on his character.

I've actually lost a fair bit of interest in Rollins. If they ever had hope of him being a potential heir to the throne, it evaporated in my eyes a while ago.

Lord TSC

I really don't get why I should be cheering Rollins here.

His entire thing is that HHH wouldn't help him cheat to win any more. So, right, HHH "betrays" him and doesn't let Rollins be a whiney heel any more. So Seth threatens his kids, continues to moan that he isn't special any more.

Seth is basically a little bitch in all this. I have very little if any motivation to get behind him here....

colmufc

Ya they never turned seth full face which was always going to be a problem and having joe turn up last night was great but they killed it by having him put in the clutch (I knows it's his signature ) but it killed the momentum he should have just beat the hell out of him and stood over him end of
Joe looked poor sweating bullets after doing a submission move

johnnyryan89

Lord TSC wrote: »

I really don't get why I should be cheering Rollins here.

His entire thing is that HHH wouldn't help him cheat to win any more. So, right, HHH "betrays" him and doesn't let Rollins be a whiney heel any more. So Seth threatens his kids, continues to moan that he isn't special any more.

Seth is basically a little bitch in all this. I have very little if any motivation to get behind him here....

Couldn't agree more, someone mentioned not long ago that a rumour going around was HHH vs. Shane at Mania and thought to myself that I could see myself getting more involved in that match then anything involving Seth Rollins.

sky88

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, someone mentioned not long ago that a rumour going around was HHH vs. Shane at Mania and thought to myself that I could see myself getting more involved in that match then anything involving Seth Rollins.

hhh/joe vs shane/seth wouldnt be the worst idea to try make seth more likable

SlickRic

Lord TSC wrote: »

I really don't get why I should be cheering Rollins here.

His entire thing is that HHH wouldn't help him cheat to win any more. So, right, HHH "betrays" him and doesn't let Rollins be a whiney heel any more. So Seth threatens his kids, continues to moan that he isn't special any more.

Seth is basically a little bitch in all this. I have very little if any motivation to get behind him here....

I'd go further.

It was a full on face promo by HHH. There was nothing there that would make you root against HHH. not one thing. it's HHH's usual schtick (see when he beat up Roman Reigns during last year's Road to Wrestlemania, crotch chops included). This is yet another all out fúcking over of a potential star for the sake of continuing to have HHH and Steph's ego massaged. They don't care what they do to any of the talent (bar Cena, HHH, Steph, Goldberg and Lesnar) if it can mean that the McMahon/Helmsleys can get over just a little bit more.

It's pathetic. It's insulting. And it continues to prove just how insecure these people are. It's fúcking laughable.

Rollins has been slowly killed over the last few months because it's all about the fúcking Authority. He whines and bitches because, basically, they aren't around to help him cheat. Then, even though he's meant to be angry at these people, he's never allowed to get the upper hand on them, and he's never allowed to really talk back to them in a way that would get fans behind him. Because you can't take Steph (who has been the one on TV in HHH's absence) down a peg or 2. She has to emasculate you. So what you have is the worst babyface in the world. He's not champion. He can't be champion without the Authority. He can't tell them how he feels without getting eviscerated. And I'm supposed to root for him?

The whole thing is an exercise in making the McMahon/Helmseys feel better about themselves, and reassure themselves that they're stars.

Absolute fúcking garbage.

And I say all that acknowledging that HHH's promo was fúcking awesome. Just awesome.

So awesome I wanted him to kick that whiny little shít Seth Rollins' ass at Wrestlemania.

This company fúcking sucks.

The Ayatolla

A much better approach would have had heel Rollins get fed up of the help from J&J and HHH etc and ask can he do things on his own. In the process, he proves he can stand on his own two feet and earns the respect of the crowd and a handful of top faces due to putting on great matches and this gets the ire of HHH and Stephanie.

Rollins starts using the pedigree which pisses HHH off further. HHH then costs Rollins the belt. We then have a reason to sympathise with Rollins somewhat.

Right now, they're expecting us to cheer the guy who broke up the shield, cheated in every title win and defense he had, and now spends his time crying because he's on his own with no one to help.

J. Marston

Rollins entire face character is based on the fact that he smiles at the crowd and says Seth "Freakin" Rollins.

Reigns is a better face than him.

PTH2009

good to see Samoa Joe debut but as hes on Raw will that rule out Cena vs Joe at Mania ???.

Seems like it may be Rollins vs Joe at Fast Lane and if Rollins wins he will get to face Triple H at Mania

Obv Goldberg will accept brocks challenge for mania where Brock will finally win and its ends with a handshake/hug moment

There teasing the KO/y2j breakup and y2j will likely be mad that KO didnt come help him when strowman put him through the table.

Reigns vs Strowman is a lock for Fast lane and that will start the Taker vs Reigns fued for mania

Jerichoholic

Don't fret lads, the A show is tonight.

J. Marston

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Don't fret lads, the A show is tonight.

It probably is the genuine A show now. It's got the legit belt. It's got Cena and Styles. It's got the Rumble winner and therefore the WM main event. And it's vastly more entertaining.

beakerjoe

Slickric..... you said everything better than I ever could. Bravo!

Rollins has been a failure, through no fault of his own. As a heel, he was a chicken **** coward, who never looked like a champion in any promo, match or segment. The writing / booking team made him into a mid card heel type persona, not the man at teh top of the mountain. He never won clean, never look dominant, never looked capable of being a champion on his own, so hence why hes was never truly viewed as one.

His face turn was just awful. His motivations were never that of a heel, even after he lost to Owens because of HHH, he moaned and cried to Steph at first about why he wasnt the chossen one no more. Why would anyone get behind that. His dialogue has been poorly written, which to be fair is across the board on Raw (minus the big guns), his actions have never been that of a babyface and he still b!tches about the authority even months after turning face.

Why on earth would I cheer for him?

Hes been booked to fail, as Slick pointed out is similar vein to Roman last year. The situations and story is destined to fail by how Seth is perceived. Hes booked like a half witted b!tch who cant let go of the fact he isnt in teh cool gang anymore against HHH who cut probably one of the best face promos of his career. It cant all be intentional, as thats no way to run a company, but there is something very wrong in WWE on the Raw writing staff/ powers that be, that they not only cant create new true main event stars while at teh same time making Steph look more dominant than any wrestler ever has and booking HHH like hes the best face in the comapnies hsitory.

Its just doesnt make sense.

Also the HD cameras are not Hunters friend up close, hes working too hard in that office.

johnnyryan89

J. Marston wrote: »

It probably is the genuine A show now. It's got the legit belt. It's got Cena and Styles. It's got the Rumble winner and therefore the WM main event. And it's vastly more entertaining.

All it needs now is a dose of the perfect ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten, ten.

sky88

J. Marston wrote: »

It probably is the genuine A show now. It's got the legit belt. It's got Cena and Styles. It's got the Rumble winner and therefore the WM main event. And it's vastly more entertaining.

i will eat my hat if brock/goldberg or roman/taker dont main event mania

Lithium93_

sky88 wrote: »

i will eat my hat if brock/goldberg or roman/taker dont main event mania

Bookmarked, just in case the aforementioned matches don't main event Mania.

Agent Coulson

Seth has been waiting to get his hands on HHH for months now.


So why the hell did he let him talk in the ring for 5 minutes before coming out?


No logic at all if he really wanted him that bad he would have attacked him at the car when he got out since Steph to the world HHH was coming.

Mr.Nice Guy

So relieved to find out I wasn't the only one infuriated by the latest episode in the HHH/Rollins saga. It soured the show for me even though the rest of it was mostly fine. And Heyman's promo was excellent, I thought.

But I'm now convinced that the Seth Rollins babyface turn is the worst face turn in recent memory.

Let's review it: after they did a bunch of great videos showing Seth's recovery from his serious injury, he comes back to Raw with a huge ovation. What do they immediately do? Have him go heel on the crowd and destroy the moment. When they eventually turn him later in the year, when his momentum has diminished, the story is that Seth is gutted that the evil heel Authority has ditched him. We see him going back to Stephanie like a hurt puppy. 'How could you do this to me Stephanie after everything I've done for you?' This is our new top babyface.

It gets better. He proceeds to get HANDED several title shots against Kevin Owens over the subsequent months. Not only does this give fans no reason to get behind him in the fight against the supposed big bad evil machine, it also undermines the very idea - because they can't be so big and bad and evil if they're giving him these shots in the first place.

Then after several months pass and he FAILS to capture the championship, he decides now it's time to get revenge on HHH. He hits on the bright idea that he is going to go to NXT to get him - so he's a bit of an idiot too because HHH has been doing these shows for months so why didn't he try this approach sooner?

It gets better still. He shows up with the intent of hijacking the show and what happens? Hunter comes out, nonchalantly sends down security, and Rollins gets dragged out of there with nothing happening to Hunter whatsoever, and nothing happening to the show either. It was a total failure by Rollins. Hunter made him look like a geek.

It gets even better. We are then told that Rollins has been banned from the Rumble by Stephanie. Now anyone who has followed this industry for even a few years knows that when a babyface star is banned from the building, what does that mean? Why, they are practically guaranteed to show up at the building. Think of Stone Cold Steve Austin. Imagine him in this scenario. Why, he'd show up in a truck, or figure out some other cunning way to get in. Our babyface Seth? Nah. He just seemingly shrugged his shoulders and decided to get a pizza and watch at home. A ban's a ban, right?

So now we come to last night's show. Stephanie comes out and lays down the law as always, he gets in a line about her and Hunter, and then - I couldn't believe my ears for this bit - he actually makes a subtle threat towards her family. Her kids! Are you f*cking kidding me? This is the babyface?! And then Stephanie gets to have the last killer line - naturally - when she screams that Hunter WILL be here tonight. And the crowd cheer. Yay. Daddy's coming home to defend the honour of his family.

And boy, oh boy, did he defend his family's honour. What a great babyface promo, Hunter. I thought to myself, surely he won't put his ego first this time. Surely a guy like him, and he's clearly a smart guy, surely he must know Rollins has been dying on his arse as a babyface. Surely he must know that he needs to help the guy. Surely he will convey the idea to the fans that he is scared to face Rollins...NOPE. He dismisses Rollins as being a failure - hard to argue - and talks about how he must become the DESTROYER. The suit-wearing Hunter must go. Super Hunter must return. And he takes off the jacket and the fans go wild, chanting his name. And then Rollins comes out - honestly looking like a dick that's about to get what he deserves. A whiny, failure that threatens a man's family - who could possibly root for this guy?

Even the debut of Joe in a sense put Hunter over again. He got to put over himself as a big time star at Rollins' expense - AND he gave you the debut of one of your favourites from NXT. Oh Thank You Uncle Hunter for being so great.

Yes, he will likely do the job for Rollins at Mania but, as always with him, the Mania result itself is irrelevant (except for the Sting one, for some bizarrely stupid reason he had to win that) - his main goal is to be at the forefront of the biggest show of the year. To get his big Mania entrance. To be the STAR. Rollins winning at Mania won't hurt that for him. In fact, many fans will praise him for 'putting over' Rollins in the match.

The guy is a f*cking fraud.

Lithium93_

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

So relieved to find out I wasn't the only one infuriated by the latest episode in the HHH/Rollins saga. It soured the show for me even though the rest of it was mostly fine. And Heyman's promo was excellent, I thought.

But I'm now convinced that the Seth Rollins babyface turn is the worst face turn in recent memory.

Let's review it: after they did a bunch of great videos showing Seth's recovery from his serious injury, he comes back to Raw with a huge ovation. What do they immediately do? Have him go heel on the crowd and destroy the moment. When they eventually turn him later in the year, when his momentum has diminished, the story is that Seth is gutted that the evil heel Authority has ditched him. We see him going back to Stephanie like a hurt puppy. 'How could you do this to me Stephanie after everything I've done for you?' This is our new top babyface.

It gets better. He proceeds to get HANDED several title shots against Kevin Owens over the subsequent months. Not only does this give fans no reason to get behind him in the fight against the supposed big bad evil machine, it also undermines the very idea - because they can't be so big and bad and evil if they're giving him these shots in the first place.

Then after several months pass and he FAILS to capture the championship, he decides now it's time to get revenge on HHH. He hits on the bright idea that he is going to go to NXT to get him - so he's a bit of an idiot too because HHH has been doing these shows for months so why didn't he try this approach sooner?

It gets better still. He shows up with the intent of hijacking the show and what happens? Hunter comes out, nonchalantly sends down security, and Rollins gets dragged out of there with nothing happening to Hunter whatsoever, and nothing happening to the show either. It was a total failure by Rollins. Hunter made him look like a geek.

It gets even better. We are then told that Rollins has been banned from the Rumble by Stephanie. Now anyone who has followed this industry for even a few years knows that when a babyface star is banned from the building, what does that mean? Why, they are practically guaranteed to show up at the building. Think of Stone Cold Steve Austin. Imagine him in this scenario. Why, he'd show up in a truck, or figure out some other cunning way to get in. Our babyface Seth? Nah. He just seemingly shrugged his shoulders and decided to get a pizza and watch at home. A ban's a ban, right?

So now we come to last night's show. Stephanie comes out and lays down the law as always, he gets in a line about her and Hunter, and then - I couldn't believe my ears for this bit - he actually makes a subtle threat towards her family. Her kids! Are you f*cking kidding me? This is the babyface?! And then Stephanie gets to have the last killer line - naturally - when she screams that Hunter WILL be here tonight. And the crowd cheer. Yay. Daddy's coming home to defend the honour of his family.

And boy, oh boy, did he defend his family's honour. What a great babyface promo, Hunter. I thought to myself, surely he won't put his ego first this time. Surely a guy like him, and he's clearly a smart guy, surely he must know Rollins has been dying on his arse as a babyface. Surely he must know that he needs to help the guy. Surely he will convey the idea to the fans that he is scared to face Rollins...NOPE. He dismisses Rollins as being a failure - hard to argue - and talks about how he must become the DESTROYER. The suit-wearing Hunter must go. Super Hunter must return. And he takes off the jacket and the fans go wild, chanting his name. And then Rollins comes out - honestly looking like a dick that's about to get what he deserves. A whiny, failure that threatens a man's family - who could possibly root for this guy?

Even the debut of Joe in a sense put Hunter over again. He got to put over himself as a big time star at Rollins' expense - AND he gave you the debut of one of your favourites from NXT. Oh Thank You Uncle Hunter for being so great.

Yes, he will likely do the job for Rollins at Mania but, as always with him, the Mania result itself is irrelevant (except for the Sting one, for some bizarrely stupid reason he had to win that) - his main goal is to be at the forefront of the biggest show of the year. To get his big Mania entrance. To be the STAR. Rollins winning at Mania won't hurt that for him. In fact, many fans will praise him for 'putting over' Rollins in the match.

The guy is a f*cking fraud.

If only this could be double thanked, it's perfectly nailed everything wrong with Rollins ever since his return.

martyos121

That promo from Triple H was absolutely legendary. That's all I've to say about last night's Raw.

CastorTroy

J. Marston wrote: »

It probably is the genuine A show now. It's got the legit belt. It's got Cena and Styles. It's got the Rumble winner and therefore the WM main event. And it's vastly more entertaining.

Think that went out the window the year Shemus won earning him an 18 second opening match at Mania.


I do like the thought of HHH just having an army of NXT guys he can use anytime he wants. Though if the conditions for Seth to face HHH at Mania is that he defeats Joe first, it's annoying that Joe will lose.

Neil3030

So just so I'm understanding this:

- HHH insults a man for getting injured
- HHH calls him weak and demands that he come down and face him
- HHH then taunts him from the ring while his goon blindside attacks
- HHH then slinks away

and people are calling this a face promo??

PTH2009

Seth has to be a heel when Balor returns

Move Ambrose to Raw and reunite the shield and make them a dominant heel faction like they were in 2012/13/14

johnnyryan89

CastorTroy wrote: »

Think that went out the window the year Shemus won earning him an 18 second opening match at Mania.


I do like the thought of HHH just having an army of NXT guys he can use anytime he wants. Though if the conditions for Seth to face HHH at Mania is that he defeats Joe first, it's annoying that Joe will lose.

Can't see Joe losing clean, Seth will pick up the win by DQ after a beat down by Joe and HHH with Reigns probably saving the day.

lycan238

I don't comment here often but wow I enjoyed the promos from both Heyman and Hunter last night. Heyman is always great can sell anything better than a fair few if not most of the roster. As for Hunters promo if ratings spike in the next few weeks he is liable to think his return is the reason for that. It might very well be or it might be that Samoa Joe is now on RAW and most fans especially those here know him and know he is watchable.

I thought the title match was ok not great. I kind of expected a non finish or a dq finish however I have no complaints about it. Strowman is kept looking kind of strong as he was not pinned and was up fairly promptly after the spear. The question now is where does Strowman go from here. ATGMBR? Title match at WM?

PTH2009

The age of the face/heel is slowly disappearing and the age of fans liking/hating both guys is beginning

CastorTroy

Had to look up ATGMBR. Didn't realise it was being shortened to that.
(Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal for others who don't know)

Angron

I've heard it being called the ARMBAR (Andre Roussimoff Memorial BAttle Royal) which I kinda like.

lycan238

CastorTroy wrote: »

Had to look up ATGMBR. Didn't realise it was being shortened to that.
(Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal for others who don't know)

Sorry about that but yes that is what I meant. I seem to remember the shorter version being used somewhere last year possible a twitter hashtag.

riffmongous

I'm really starting to like Strowman, he only said a few sentences last night but it was all perfect for the situation. I hope they keep his push going and don't do what we all know they will do