RAW Superthread

A Brad Maddox Guy

Somehow didn't have Joe's debut spoiled on me, in fact I saw so little about RAW despite using Twitter & Facebook this evening that I was really surprised by it. Heyman promo was great and tbh I'm really looking forward to Goldberg vs Lesnar. I hope by the time Mania rolls around that I have a reason to root for Rollins but they're certainly making it difficult. I can't for the life of me figure out why he returned as a heel only to 'turn' a couple months later; did Balor's injury ruin months worth of Authority based plans?

There's no way Vince et al can think Rollins is being booked & written well as a face, never mind Austin can you imagine the face of the company right now coming out with some of this sh*t? Cena last week = I worked my ass off carrying this company for a decade. Rollins for the last 3 months = Waaaaaah why won't you help me win anymore?
Cena = Never Give Up kids, Hustle Loyalty Respect. Rollins = I'm going to turn up at your house and beat the sh*t out of your husband in front of your children.

This has been f***ing ridiculous and Seth needs to put a stop to it before it goes beyond saving.

The Ayatolla

Really begs the question about how much balls the stars of today have.

From listening to Austin/Rock and a few other attitude era stars in recent interviews, this kind of character demoralisation that Rollins is going through would never fly. The stars of yesteryear wouldn't allow it and would speak up against this kind of rubbish.

CastorTroy

I think it's pretty obvious that fans are not happy with Raw at the moment. You just have to read the posts here to see that when Joe finally makes his long awaited debut on the main roster, it's only mentioned in passing as part of the complaints against Rollins and the storyline.

I mean Joe is now on the main roster. This should be a good thing. I'm just hoping they go more the Braun route than Owens. Joe has to get himself over as a heel and there aren't that many faces he can attack to achieve that. Rollins and Reigns are the 2 main faces, supposedly and Joe attacking them would be cheered. I think unless Joe attacks Sami or maybe Jack Gallagher, people won't care too much.

764dak

A Brad Maddox Guy wrote: »

Somehow didn't have Joe's debut spoiled on me, in fact I saw so little about RAW despite using Twitter & Facebook this evening that I was really surprised by it. Heyman promo was great and tbh I'm really looking forward to Goldberg vs Lesnar. I hope by the time Mania rolls around that I have a reason to root for Rollins but they're certainly making it difficult. I can't for the life of me figure out why he returned as a heel only to 'turn' a couple months later; did Balor's injury ruin months worth of Authority based plans?

There's no way Vince et al can think Rollins is being booked & written well as a face, never mind Austin can you imagine the face of the company right now coming out with some of this sh*t? Cena last week = I worked my ass off carrying this company for a decade. Rollins for the last 3 months = Waaaaaah why won't you help me win anymore?
Cena = Never Give Up kids, Hustle Loyalty Respect. Rollins = I'm going to turn up at your house and beat the sh*t out of your husband in front of your children.

This has been f***ing ridiculous and Seth needs to put a stop to it before it goes beyond saving.

Didn't face HHH break into Randy Orton's house in 2009?

A Brad Maddox Guy

764dak wrote: »

Didn't face HHH break into Randy Orton's house in 2009?

No idea, I didn't watch it then. There's only two home invasion angles I remember - Austin threatening Pillman with a gun & DDP stalking Undertaker's wife.

SureYWouldntYa

764dak wrote: »

Didn't face HHH break into Randy Orton's house in 2009?

After Randy had punted Shane and Vince, RKO'd Stephanie and kissed her while HHH was handcuffed to the ropes

At least HHH had more reason than why won't you help me cheat to win

PTH2009

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

After Randy had punted Shane and Vince, RKO'd Stephanie and kissed her while HHH was handcuffed to the ropes

At least HHH had more reason than why won't you help me cheat to win

Loved that storyline back In 2009, Triple H only came into it when Orton RKO'd Stephanie (on TV Triple H and Steph were broken up) remember Orton's face when he realized what he done and triple h about too explode.

https://youtu.be/76GZOB8_qiQ

SureYWouldntYa

PTH2009 wrote: »

Loved that storyline back In 2009, Triple H only came into it when Orton RKO'd Stephanie (on TV Triple H and Steph were broken up) remember Orton's face when he realized what he done and triple h about too explode.

https://youtu.be/76GZOB8_qiQ

Such a pity the Mania match was such a limp and dull affair

Shouldn't have been one of the normal HHH matches with lots of slow methodical action and rest holds, that match should've been a 15 minute no holds barred full speed match, preferably with Randy winning too

sky88

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Such a pity the Mania match was such a limp and dull affair

Shouldn't have been one of the normal HHH matches with lots of slow methodical action and rest holds, that match should've been a 15 minute no holds barred full speed match, preferably with Randy winning too

What made them put that stipulations that hhh would lose the title on a dq I will never know. The entire feud was leading to a war but got a pillow fight instead.

Ben Gadot

riffmongous wrote: »

I'm really starting to like Strowman, he only said a few sentences last night but it was all perfect for the situation. I hope they keep his push going and don't do what we all know they will do

The thing is that Braun's push requires acceleration to the top of the mountain. For where he's at right now there's no reasonable excuse as to why he won't be champion very soon.

The only thing they can do to delay it further is a feud with another big man.

Lord TSC

Neil3030 wrote: »

So just so I'm understanding this:

- HHH insults a man for getting injured
- HHH calls him weak and demands that he come down and face him
- HHH then taunts him from the ring while his goon blindside attacks
- HHH then slinks away

and people are calling this a face promo??

For me, it was closer to a face promo than a heel one.
And I believe the reason for that is because, in the context of Seth's character, it's very hard not to side with HHH. Because, ultimately, he's got very legit reasons.

He dropped Seth cause he was hurt? Legit reason to move on to someone else. This would be more of a heel move if not for the fact i's a perfectly reasonable response to Seth's moaning; Seth (as a face) revolves round the idea that HHH won't help him cheat to win any more (in spite of the fact, as MNG pointed out, he's not been conspired against, not had a rough run, still gets unlimited title shots, etc). HHH, quite reasonably, says its cause he can't trust Seth. HHH, quite reasonably, calls out Seth for being a little bitch, and all the evidence we've got over the last few months proves him right.

HHH's anger seems based on the fact that Seth threatened his kids. Read that again. THE GOOD GUY THREATENED HIS KIDS! That's what brought HHH out of hiding, that's the reason HHH cut that promo. The good guy made a threat to the man's kids because HHH won't help him cheat to win. How can I hate a man for wanting to defend his family's honor (and what is it with WWE continually putting the "I will do this cause you insulted my family" trope on bad guys!?!?!).

On top of that, he's also motivated by the fact Seth tried to disrupt an NXT PPV; you know, the ones the smarks ****ing adore? And he brings up a guy the smarks have utterly been gagging for.

As I said, yeah, it's more neutral than an out-and-out face promo. But it certainly wasn't a heel promo, and it certainly did nothing to convince anyone to get behind Seth and think HHH isn't entirely justified in his logic.

Jerichoholic

If Seth was so upset about not being at Mania last year, so upset that he couldn't stay in the building, then they probably shouldn't have shown him smiling and laughing away before the main event on that WWE 24 documentary.

johnnyryan89

CastorTroy wrote: »

I think it's pretty obvious that fans are not happy with Raw at the moment. You just have to read the posts here to see that when Joe finally makes his long awaited debut on the main roster, it's only mentioned in passing as part of the complaints against Rollins and the storyline.

I mean Joe is now on the main roster. This should be a good thing. I'm just hoping they go more the Braun route than Owens. Joe has to get himself over as a heel and there aren't that many faces he can attack to achieve that. Rollins and Reigns are the 2 main faces, supposedly and Joe attacking them would be cheered. I think unless Joe attacks Sami or maybe Jack Gallagher, people won't care too much.

Could say Joe is unassigned and is just a heavy for HHH and have him show up on both shows just to cause trouble. Have him attack a face on Smackdown even some like Daniel Bryan who could take time away for the birth of his child (if the due date is soonish). If he's sticking with just Raw could be Mick Foley he attacks or someone whose not on telly but comes back to promote something about Mania.

Joe will probably go the way of Rusev in being a monster heel to a comedy gimmick and back to trying to be a monster heel but feud with Enzo.

riffmongous

Ben Gadot wrote: »

The thing is that Braun's push requires acceleration to the top of the mountain. For where he's at right now there's no reasonable excuse as to why he won't be champion very soon.

The only thing they can do to delay it further is a feud with another big man.

They should feed the Big Show, Henry, Kane to him to keep him busy till after Mania, and he has to destroy them, otherwise it will be Ryback all over again.

Edit: Actually I'm not sure if that is a good idea, those kinds of feuds are usually terrible

Neil3030

Lord TSC wrote: »

For me, it was closer to a face promo than a heel one.
And I believe the reason for that is because, in the context of Seth's character, it's very hard not to side with HHH. Because, ultimately, he's got very legit reasons.

He dropped Seth cause he was hurt? Legit reason to move on to someone else. This would be more of a heel move if not for the fact i's a perfectly reasonable response to Seth's moaning; Seth (as a face) revolves round the idea that HHH won't help him cheat to win any more (in spite of the fact, as MNG pointed out, he's not been conspired against, not had a rough run, still gets unlimited title shots, etc). HHH, quite reasonably, says its cause he can't trust Seth. HHH, quite reasonably, calls out Seth for being a little bitch, and all the evidence we've got over the last few months proves him right.

HHH's anger seems based on the fact that Seth threatened his kids. Read that again. THE GOOD GUY THREATENED HIS KIDS! That's what brought HHH out of hiding, that's the reason HHH cut that promo. The good guy made a threat to the man's kids because HHH won't help him cheat to win. How can I hate a man for wanting to defend his family's honor (and what is it with WWE continually putting the "I will do this cause you insulted my family" trope on bad guys!?!?!).

On top of that, he's also motivated by the fact Seth tried to disrupt an NXT PPV; you know, the ones the smarks ****ing adore? And he brings up a guy the smarks have utterly been gagging for.

As I said, yeah, it's more neutral than an out-and-out face promo. But it certainly wasn't a heel promo, and it certainly did nothing to convince anyone to get behind Seth and think HHH isn't entirely justified in his logic.

I get a lot of what you're saying. And a lot of the issues here are obviously to do with how utterly awful and inconsistent the narrative has been on Raw (probably not helped by Balor's injury, and needing to go to plan . But I do feel that they've given me (at least) enough to consider HHH the heel and Rollins the face in all of this.

It's all about perspective. For example, you could focus on the fact that Rollins was a whiny little twerp, bemoaning that he is no longer the Authority's special little boy. OR, you could focus on the fact that HHH turned up during a title match, pedigreed Rollins and cost him the title.

You could focus on the fact that Rollins disrupted the smark mecca that is TakeOver. OR, you could focus on the fact that he needed to go to such lengths to get access to a coward who refused to meet him man to man. (And btw, Rollins got a hell of a pop when he did show up, and HHH drew heat for calling in security to deal with him, so I think the smarks in attendance were on board with this narrative).

You could focus on Rollins threatening to turn up at his house (heelish, I grant you), OR, you could again focus on Rollins going to any length to get his hands on a coward that refuses to face him.

You could focus on HHH calling up a smark darling, OR you could focus on him recruiting a goon to blindside Rollins and do his dirty work for him.

I don't watch wrestling to get too bogged down in complex character analysis. Just give me some conflict, build it up, and eventually resolve it. You don't like Rollins' character and that's totally your choice. I just think this arc is a fairly solidly built face-heel scenario, IF you filter out one or two inconsistencies (this is still WWE we are talking about here).

J. Marston

Rollins injured again. Real or kayfabe?

Seth Rollins’ right knee was re-injured during Samoa Joe’s ambush at the conclusion of this Monday’s Raw, WWE.com can now confirm. The attack occurred as Rollins was heading to the ring to finally confront Triple H, who cost The Architect a WWE Universal Championship opportunity back in August.

WWE.com cameras captured footage of Rollins leaving the Laredo Energy Arena in Laredo, Texas, Monday night, but no specific details on the former WWE Champion’s condition have been revealed. Rollins is set to be evaluated later this week.

Stay with WWE.com as this story develops.

http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/article/seth-rollins-injured-samoa-joe?sf53825846=1

Pentecost

J. Marston wrote: »

Rollins injured again. Real or kayfabe?

Would assume kayfabe due to the WWE.com cameras etc. If he was actually hurt I don't think they'd be filming him.

sky88

Looks like the injury is legit.

if its the same knee cant see him being ready for mania shame as i think the storyline was beginning to get good. i wonder if this will cause a reshuffle of mania plans.

shane vs hhh or hhh vs ambrose has to be a possibility now even ambrose and shane vs joe/hhh which would make no sense but its wwe it never stopped them before. ambrose defending his former shield mate againist trips and his new heavy. the shane story writes itself.

colmufc

It's legit
You can see it when joe takes him down for the clutch the knee buckles

The Ayatolla

If it's real it's 100% his own fault with the over exaggerated selling when Joe locked it in. All that flailing his arms around and twisting his body. Christ.

johnnyryan89

sky88 wrote: »

Looks like the injury is legit.

if its the same knee cant see him being ready for mania shame as i think the storyline was beginning to get good. i wonder if this will cause a reshuffle of mania plans.

shane vs hhh or hhh vs ambrose has to be a possibility now even ambrose and shane vs joe/hhh which would make no sense but its wwe it never stopped them before. ambrose defending his former shield mate againist trips and his new heavy. the shane story writes itself.

HHH leading an invasion of Smackdown with a couple of NXT cronies such as Joe and the Revival.

Could do the same on Raw but who would HHH fight with at Mania then?

johnnyryan89

colmufc wrote: »

It's legit
You can see it when joe takes him down for the clutch the knee buckles

That take down from Joe looked proper mean and even thought to myself I bet that hurt.

Lithium93_

Dave Meltzer has confirmed that Rollins's injury is legit, Rollins himself has confirmed it.

https://twitter.com/WWERollins/status/826832819074789376

Clegg

Thanks can go one of two ways:

1) Joe is set up as a monster heel who got rid of Rollins. He's pushed accordingly.

2) Joe is punished for injuring one of their top guys and ruining a big money Wrestlemania match.

Probably a third option as well. Joe isnt punished because wrestling is a heavy duty activity where injuries occur. But he flounders in the mid card because WWE haven't a clue how to book him. This is the most likely result.

Neil3030

Clegg wrote: »

Thanks can go one of two ways:

1) Joe is set up as a monster heel who got rid of Rollins. He's pushed accordingly.

2) Joe is punished for injuring one of their top guys and ruining a big money Wrestlemania match.

Probably a third option as well. Joe isnt punished because wrestling is a heavy duty activity where injuries occur. But he flounders in the mid card because WWE haven't a clue how to book him. This is the most likely result.

You left out a one-way verbal b1tchslap from Steph. In fact, this should be incorporated into all three scenarios #WWElogic

martyos121

Things are really screwed up now if this injury means Rollins will miss Mania. One way of fixing things that comes to mind is that Samoa Joe lets his "destruction" of Rollins go to his head and he goes rogue. He tears up the entire Raw roster and so Triple H has to be the man to set him straight in a No Holds Barred match at Mania.

Failing that, Triple H can face Shane and they can stick to whatever plans they already had for Joe.

DM_7

Any way the attack was to write him off as they knew he was hurt?

It was odd that at Takeover he didn't murder the security.

johnnyryan89

DM_7 wrote: »

Any way the attack was to write him off as they knew he was hurt?

It was odd that at Takeover he didn't murder the security.

Could say the same for the Rumble, even though he was "banned" he still could have interfered but didn't.

Pentecost

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Dave Meltzer has confirmed that Rollins's injury is legit, Rollins himself has confirmed it.

https://twitter.com/WWERollins/status/826832819074789376

Wonder how close Balor is to being ready? Will they be tempted to rush him back?

Lithium93_

Pentecost wrote: »

Wonder how close Balor is to being ready? Will they be tempted to rush him back?

Who knows..