RAW Superthread

JP Liz V1

I dont mind Miz losing the IC title if it means he gets a go at Lesnar and his title (Miz Vs. Heyman could be gold) but why did Reigns get a IC title match and what next the women's title for him

Am the only one not wanting to see Angle Vs. HHH again

JP Liz V1

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Am the only one not wanting to see Angle Vs. HHH again

Nope.

ERG89

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Am the only one not wanting to see Angle Vs. HHH again

Apparently casuals want to see it
I don't anyway as both are physically shot; especially Kurt. Clearly WWE still view HHH as a special attraction as they have lined up around 3 or 4 programs for him after Survivor Series.
His run with Rollins was so drawn out and tedious; the long build was never, ever, ever going to be worth the payoff which was forgotten in minutes.

jaykhunter

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Am the only one not wanting to see Angle Vs. HHH again

This was always bounced around for a Kurt's return and I've even less enthusiasm for it now!

Agent Coulson

Paige looks like she got everything inflated while away.


Still a very average and boring wrestler for me anyway.

Angron

If we were back in the mid 00's I could get on board with Angle vs HHH. Not in 2017 though.

SlickRic

Reigns getting the IC title is no shock. The Shield is working for him currently. He was barely booed. He's still fúcked once they split again, but sure.

Paige is sh. Always have been. And arrogant on top of it. There's nothing redeeming about her as a performer. Worse than Steph for me for making me want to switch over.

Angle finally fired up, which was before time. However, he still never referenced Jason Jordan after he just stood there last week. I will say though, I have absolutely no interest in seeing Angle/HHH. None. One old man against a broken old man. No thanks.

Brawn is on fire. He's been booked so perfectly it's a miracle those dozens of writers haven't managed to fúck him up yet.

A meh Raw. But sure, that's normal enough at this stage.

Loughc

Balor loses clean to Joe and Vince wonders why he isn't over enough... :rolleyes:

Yet he gives the Intercontinental Title to Reigns because he needs him to get over.

Oh Vince you son of a....

CIARAN_BOYLE

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I dont mind Miz losing the IC title if it means he gets a go at Lesnar and his title (Miz Vs. Heyman could be gold) but why did Reigns get a IC title match and what next the women's title for him

I believe that the Miz is going to invoke a rematch clause shortly and get badly damaged before he takes a few months paternity leave.

As to why Roman, well Rollins and Ambrose are going for tag titles so Roman can't be left behind. Eventually he will lose the ic title and that will feed into the breakup of the shield. Either Rollins and Ambrose (tag champions) turn on Reigns for dragging the shield down or Reigns turns on the other two for being missing when he gets cheated out of his titles.

AT least I hope there is a storyline planned.

Angron

Seems kinda mad that Cena isn't a grand slam champion at this stage.

ERG89

Loughc wrote: »

Balor loses clean to Joe and Vince wonders why he isn't over enough... :rolleyes:

Yet he gives the Intercontinental Title to Reigns because he needs him to get over.

Oh Vince you son of a....

A feud with Miz would actually be a good idea for Balor. He obviously has a personality problem but I feel Miz has helped others bring out a part of his character.
On the upside for Finn; his storyline with Bray disappeared and we didn't get to see him tangle with a large man in drag

Furious-Red

ERG89 wrote: »

A feud with Miz would actually be a good idea for Balor. He obviously has a personality problem but I feel Miz has helped others bring out a part of his character.
On the upside for Finn; his storyline with Bray disappeared and we didn't get to see him tangle with a large man in drag

I thought when Finn went to the top rope (the last time) we were gonna get Bray Wyatt's music thing to hit

CastorTroy

Dunno why, out of all the women on NXT, that they went for those 2. Can't even remember the last time I saw Mandy. Vince must've asked Paul for a couple of women and he just gave ones that weren't doing much in NXT.
So all those women come out wanting a title shot and Asuka wasn't among them?

Once the match was made, it was obvious Reigns was going to win. Wonder were the fans cheering because he won or because they got to see a title change hands

Mr.Nice Guy

Surprised at the hostility towards Paige. I think she's a good asset to the roster. She stands out and is different. You can't argue with that pop. That was way more than most of those women returning would get and I don't believe it has anything to do with that tape, I think it's because she brings something unique to the table.

And I loved seeing Reigns getting the title. There is this bizarre myth that Miz brings prestige to the IC Title when as far as I can make out the evidence is the precise opposite; no one gave a damn about his match with Corbin at Survivor Series, his programs with Jason Jordan and Dean Ambrose were very dull, and every Miz TV segment that I see bores me to tears. He is a good talker but the IC Title is just a midcard prop in his hands. Now hopefully that title will start to truly mean something as the US Title did when Cena got it. Good to see how over Reigns was too.

I find it funny too that people continue to rage on Reigns who consistently delivers very good performances like last night, and yet are enamoured with Strowman who looked very bad vs Lesnar a few months ago, looked very bad in his brawls with Kane, and seems to me to be worse than Reigns in every department. Amazing how starting out as a heel, and not having the pressure of being the company's chosen one can alter people's perceptions.

I thought Angle looked poor in the opening of the show. "If you ever kick my ass again, next time you'll be sorry" was the main thrust of the promo from what I could see. Having said that, I did expect Steph to be all over this show and she wasn't so that was a positive.

Poor Finn looks to be in upper mid-card land now but that was always going to be likely after the way they had Kane annihilate him a month ago. That was a very bad idea.

Necro

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Surprised at the hostility towards Paige. I think she's a good asset to the roster. She stands out and is different. You can't argue with that pop. That was way more than most of those women returning would get and I don't believe it has anything to do with that tape, I think it's because she brings something unique to the table.

Yeah I agree re: Paige. For months the women's division has been stale on RAW, really going nowhere but around in a circle between Alexa, Bayley and Sasha. This was new and might in time help Bayley (although I think that ship has sailed due to crap booking of every single face in WWE).

Just on your Braun point. It's more a terrible indictment of the booking team that time and time again heels prosper and get over big time while the major faces (Roman, Bayley, and of course the man who started it all, John Cena) get booed to high heaven.

Look at Balor on Raw and Roode on Smackdown (who should be a heel btw). They give them nothing to work with other than flashy entrances and the heels get all the mic time.

Ziggler with his 50 different entrances.
Bray with his cross dressing.
The two faces simply show up and say 'I'm gonna beat you because I'm good and you're bad, hur dur derp' and it makes them look stupid. Who is gonna cheer for stupid?

Long gone are the days of Rock, Austin, Jericho etc tearing strips off the bad guys and giving us a reason to root for them.

Mr.Nice Guy

Necrominus wrote: »

Just on your Braun point. It's more a terrible indictment of the booking team that time and time again heels prosper and get over big time while the major faces (Roman, Bayley, and of course the man who started it all, John Cena) get booed to high heaven.

Look at Balor on Raw and Roode on Smackdown (who should be a heel btw). They give them nothing to work with other than flashy entrances and the heels get all the mic time.

Ziggler with his 50 different entrances.
Bray with his cross dressing.
The two faces simply show up and say 'I'm gonna beat you because I'm good and you're bad, hur dur derp' and it makes them look stupid. Who is gonna cheer for stupid?

Long gone are the days of Rock, Austin, Jericho etc tearing strips off the bad guys and giving us a reason to root for them.

That's very true. Their booking of babyfaces is appalling.

Rock Lesnar

Opening segment and Everybody wants a piece of Triple H, have i just woke up in 1997

HandsomeBob

Pretty sad to hear the crowd shout "one more time" after Paige nailed Bayley. Taking nothing away from Paige's return which was great for me anyway, but can't comprehend how we've got to this stage with Bayley.

I think she is unfortunately the best example of NXT inflating people. She never had the ability to make this gimmick work like Gargano and Bryan could. It's awful to watch someone who seems like a genuinely decent and nice person be sent out there week after week to an increasingly hostile crowd.

Rock Lesnar

I think we can forget about Balor after last night, good matches is not going to do anything for him now, his demon gimmick was all he had in NXT and now he's just a normal guy who stupidly tugs at his leather jacket when he walks out

J. Marston

The kendo stick stuff with Alexa finished Bayley for good. She was struggling before that but that feud killed her off. The "Heeey Bayley" chants she got in the UK meant nothing as that was just Manchester smelling their own farts.

I'm all for Paige's return because she can at least sound slightly natural on the mic. I can't tolerate Sasha speaking (why does she leave a letter off the end of every word she says?) and Bayley is a deer in the headlights.

Blue_Dabadee

They should give Matt Hardy his own entrance graphic and old theme music since Jeff is out for awhile.

I see from RAW fallout video that he is still teasing broken gimmick.

Jerichoholic

The Hardys are dead in the water, such a huge waste. They were such a great team this time last year, now they're just two guys on the roster.

Hococop

Jerichoholic wrote: »

The Hardys are dead in the water, such a huge waste. They were such a great team this time last year, now they're just two guys on the roster.

Not capitalizing on the broken gimmick killed it, not sure because of the ownership rights or the fact that Vince had no part in creating it therefore he hates it

sky88

Hococop wrote: »

Not capitalizing on the broken gimmick killed it, not sure because of the ownership rights or the fact that Vince had no part in creating it therefore he hates it

Bit of both i think.

Revival getting injured twice didnt help as it postponed the feud twice then jeff getting injured matt is just lost in the shuffle

Krooshma

Woah Paige looks rough... is she’s meant to have Joker make up or something?

Mr.Nice Guy

Hococop wrote: »

Not capitalizing on the broken gimmick killed it, not sure because of the ownership rights or the fact that Vince had no part in creating it therefore he hates it

Matt can't use the character and if he goes to court over it then it will likely take years to resolve. A shame because that character was arguably the most original and interesting one of this decade.

Rock Lesnar

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

A shame because that character was arguably the most original and interesting one of this decade.

It is, but i posted about it somewhere here when the hardys returned, its not a vince creation so i could not see it going anywhere, sure they'd use it for a while but then vince would start tweaking it here and there and before matt knows it, he's back in lower mid card while jeff is pushed as a main eventer, although that didnt happen due to his injury.

Lord TSC

You'd imagine there'd be some space between "Broken" and "Jobber". Like, Matt showed he has a great creative mind and can carry good stories. And they aren't even trying to find an alternative...

The Nal

Krooshma wrote: »

Woah Paige looks rough... is she’s meant to have Joker make up or something?

Ultra goth or something. Thought they could've made the comeback a bit better. And maybe dropped in the hairdryer pop. Crowd were dead.

J. Marston

The Nal wrote: »

Ultra goth or something. Thought they could've made the comeback a bit better. And maybe dropped in the hairdryer pop. Crowd were dead.

You think? I thought she got a big pop. Even got some "Yes" and "Welcome Back" chants.

JP Liz V1

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I believe that the Miz is going to invoke a rematch clause shortly and get badly damaged before he takes a few months paternity leave.

No Miz tonight if he off filming another Marine film

J. Marston

Raw's next PPV will be Royal Rumble. Two months of filler begins tonight.

johnnysmack

For once I wished balor would sprint down to the ring with some urgency about him. Would have been perfect there against Kane to run down for the save but no, still took half an hour to stroll down all the while flicking his collar. If he's in the royal rumble it'll be over by the time he makes it to the ring!

Looper007

Damn Balor is really looking a chump lately, AJ Styles match aside. What good has he done since returning after injury. A Horrible Bray feud, been made to look weak by Kane, been beaten by Samoa Joe etc..... I wouldn't be surprised if h's flung out early in Royal Rumble and gets a WM match with Kane as the Demon to get his payback lol. Maybe a move to Smackdown might be good but seen as Vince is still around I wouldn't be surprised if he's jobbing to Corbin and the likes. Deserves better but that's WWE for you.

Lord TSC

Burned through Raw in 15 minutes.

A few interesting moments but not a great show overall.

Interesting they seem to finally be doing something with Matt Hardy, but it might be too late.

DM_7

Looper007 wrote: »

Damn Balor is really looking a chump lately, AJ Styles match aside. What good has he done since returning after injury. A Horrible Bray feud, been made to look weak by Kane, been beaten by Samoa Joe etc..... I wouldn't be surprised if h's flung out early in Royal Rumble and gets a WM match with Kane as the Demon to get his payback lol. Maybe a move to Smackdown might be good but seen as Vince is still around I wouldn't be surprised if he's jobbing to Corbin and the likes. Deserves better but that's WWE for you.

Is he too small for RAW?, It also has a stacked roster. Brock is champ. Braun is there. RAW is where the legends/part timers turn up (Angle, Kane, Triple H etc).Bigger guys like Bray, Joe. RAW has The Shield boys as well.

Better off on Smackdown for sure.

Angron

I'm generally a pretty big Kane apologist, but fecking hell, stop having him batter Finn. Is it any wonder Vince is convinced Finn isn't over if this is what they do to him?

ERG89

DM_7 wrote: »

RAW has The Shield boys as well.
Better off on Smackdown for sure.

Is he much smaller than Ambrose or Rollins? Not really.
They had him beat Reigns and Styles too so its not like he isn't allowed beat names either. He's not clicked with fans since the injury that is his big issue, WWE are never enamoured with those who get injuries too.

Angron wrote: »

Is it any wonder Vince is convinced Finn isn't over if this is what they do to him?

Did Cole say tweet that afterwards?? :pac::pac:

DM_7

ERG89 wrote: »

Is he much smaller than Ambrose or Rollins? Not really.
They had him beat Reigns and Styles too so its not like he isn't allowed beat names either. He's not clicked with fans since the injury that is his big issue, WWE are never enamoured with those who get injuries too.




Did Cole say tweet that afterwards?? :pac::pac:

For Ambrose and Rollins, they are already upper card guys, who are ahead of him. They can compete with a Braun for a spot but Finn is behind them. On RAW is he going to get a good place on the card ahead of Ambrose and Rollins in the build up to Mania or ahead of the legends or the bigger lads?

Agent Coulson

Balor's next shirt will be the rip off of Brother Love's

I USED to Be Over.


Till They Put Me Under.

chatticusfinch

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Balor's next shirt will be the rip off of Brother Love's

I USED to Be Over.


Till They Put Me Under.

With a "Who booked this ****?" on the back.

Looper007

DM_7 wrote: »

Is he too small for RAW?, It also has a stacked roster. Brock is champ. Braun is there. RAW is where the legends/part timers turn up (Angle, Kane, Triple H etc).Bigger guys like Bray, Joe. RAW has The Shield boys as well.

Better off on Smackdown for sure.

Doesn't excuse the shoddy booking of him. I understand not having him go over the likes of Braun, Brock or Reigns (although he did beat him on his debut), they are the only guys who are booked right. But having be beat by Kane constantly and Bray is shocking. WWE are really awful at booking a babyface if it isn't Reigns or Braun.

I don't get the misuse of Finn, the guy has big star written all over him. He's great in the ring, got the looks. Okay he's not great on the mic and he's not 6ft 5 but Bryan, Styles and Punk have broken down that barrier in recent years. Ever since his return from injury, he just seems to be lost in the pack.

A move to Smackdown might give him a better chance, but whats not to say that with Vince he feeds him to some of his chosen ones on Smackdown. You can tell that Vince isn't a fan, plus once even the Demon gimmick can't save him he's in trouble.

Looper007

DM_7 wrote: »

For Ambrose and Rollins, they are already upper card guys, who are ahead of him. They can compete with a Braun for a spot but Finn is behind them. On RAW is he going to get a good place on the card ahead of Ambrose and Rollins in the build up to Mania or ahead of the legends or the bigger lads?

I think his time on Raw is done. Him and Bayley probably need a move to the blue side badly.

I'd be very surprised with the way he's been booked right now, if he get on the main card of WM. If they have one of those crazy ladder matches for the IC title or a thrown together tag matches to get a few guys on the card, he might have a chance. A match with Kane as the demon gimmick at WM might be his best chance.

Jerichoholic

Kane needs to move to a retirement home.

J. Marston

With any luck, he'll win that mayoral election and have to be Glenn Jacobs full-time.

Cannot stand the sight of Kane in WWE anymore. Awful attire, awful wig, awful belly. Just fúcking awful.

Jerichoholic

I doubt Kane would have received 1% of votes in that poll that Finn won. Yet the WWE bubble has him as a top guy still. It's the weirdest company on earth.

J. Marston

The tepid reaction for Broken Matt was a bit sad. 8 or 9 months ago it would've got big reaction but now it's just like "Oh yeah, he did that thing before..."

Furious-Red

I thought the idea when Finn's music hit he was gonna hit the ring and go for Kane , Why would it be turned into a match. Then to have Kane once again destroy him was ridiculous .

Id love if they took him off TV till say the Rumble , have him return and win(i know it would never happen) but instead of going for the Universal title he goes for the WWE Title so we get Finn vs AJ II at WM , You could have AJ beat him if need be which leads to one more rubber match between the two where we get a heel Finn (even through in Gallows/Anderson to create the Bullet Club) and which leads Finn to winning the title.

Now that will never happen but :pac::pac:

Jerichoholic

I need AJ/Nakamura at Mania, would be way better.

Loughc

Jerichoholic wrote: »

I need AJ/Nakamura at Mania, would be way better.

Not the way Nakamura has been performing recently in WWE.