Is the M17/M18 motorway a success?

m17

see16 wrote: »

Having recently moved from Lower Salthill to Clarinbridge, I am still getting to grips with the nightmare morning commute to the city centre..
I've tried via Oranmore, via R446 & Merlin exit, via R446 taking exit towards Ballybrit & then in via Tuam rd. - which is a route where you keep moving for the most part at least.

Yesterday was my first day heading in since the new road opened, and I left at my usual 8am. Having previously been in 2km tailbacks out of the coast rd from Oranmore on to old Dub. rd, I decided to stay on the R446 and take the Merlin/city(east) exit at the Clinic r'bout..
Both lanes were at a standstill about a quarter of a km further back than usual, but actually not moving for periods of up to 5 mins. I knew knew there was a risk of the left-hand lane being backed up more, but I couldn't understand about the right lane - people who'd just be going around the r'about and heading city(west) towards Ballybrit.
Then as I got closer I realised that the roundabout was at a standstill due to two lanes of the new traffic which had just come off the N6/M17/M18, wanting to come in to city east and now with right of way on all of us. Being that there is no yellow box on the r'bout to help even those just wishing to get around to exit westbound, the majority of drivers weren't leaving any gaps for anyone to come through, and it was all being dictated by the lights further on at Dougishka.

I'd realised that the old Dub. rd was not going to get me anywhere so I'd already changed into the right lane and eventually got on to the road heading west. Then when we hit the next r'about at the end of the N6 it was the same story - two lanes of much heavier than usual traffic coming around to head west, with right of way on us, and again no yellow box to force any leeway.
People were actually stopping themselves on the roundabout to let some of us on, and otherwise it was impossible, being a relatively small roundabout with little space to jump on between approaching cars even when there was a bit of flow.

From here on it was the usual journey, not too bad and generally kept moving.
I got to work at 9:06.
And arranged that today I would start at 11

As a matter of interest I decided to take the M6 + M18 home today - to come off at the exit by Kilcolgan - Kiltiernan exit I think, marked Ardrahan/Kinvara.
It took a very long time. Having not looked up the map of the new road I didn't realise how far out it was. So the idea of going to Kilcolgan in the morning and in that way instead is a non-runner.

I had to look up whether anyone else was as depressed as I am about this fresh hell, so I thank you for letting me rant

Maybe I'll try Dougishka rd. from coast road tomorrow..

It's going to be like this until 2024 unfortunately it doesn't matter which way you go getting across Galway city is a joke

Middle Man

m17 wrote: »

It's going to be like this until 2024 unfortunately it doesn't matter which way you go getting across Galway city is a joke

I wonder will Athenry eventually develop into a city given its proximity to major road and rail links. Such could present an opportunity to start building a city from scratch and doing it right for the 21st century - that means higher density and proper transit systems.

marno21

MOD: Changed title to reflect its open now - debate highs and lows

marno21

Middle Man wrote: »

I wonder will Athenry eventually develop into a city given its proximity to major road and rail links. Such could present an opportunity to start building a city from scratch and doing it right for the 21st century - that means higher density and proper transit systems.

Who's going to want to base in Athenry given the data centre mess ?

m17

The lows rathmorrissy could do with better signs and more lighting around the slip roads the highs going tuam to Limerick is a dream

Middle Man

marno21 wrote: »

Who's going to want to base in Athenry given the data centre mess ?

Well, we have to change the system in this country in order to start doing things differently - I for one do not think we're going to get away with all the nonsense around planning indefinitely. Ireland will become an unattractive place to do business unless there are substantial changes to how we operate here.

Pereplyotchik

I think it's too early to decide if this motorway is a success or failure, it will take a couple of years for this to settle.

It was never going to be a panacea for Galway's traffic problems which are fundamentally a lack of public transport / loads of roads funneled into a relatively small area and inadequate river crossings and cross city routes to keep people out of / away from the central core. In terms of the regional / national impact it will help out but it wasn't meant to fix Galway and it can't and shouldn't be judged according to the impact or lack of in Galway City.

The big pro is that it's there at all, we now have a focal point for further development in terms of an N17 upgrade, an economic boost to the region (hopefully this will help Tuam and Athenry create new businesses) and we now have much better access to Shannon airport.
It's also a big help for regional/national journeys, I travelled from Cork to Tuam last week and it made a huge difference in the time, I think I did it from the start of the M20 south of Limerick city to Tuam in about 1h 10mins,
I went Tuam to Dublin last week as well and it took 10mins off the travel time to Athlone, this is where we will feel the benefit, realistically, from Tuam, I could probably go Christmas shopping in Athlone or Limerick in less time than Galway... which in itself is a commentary on how bad things are in Galway...

in terms of Cons the main ones are the merging lanes at Rathmorrissey which are fine once you've driven them 2 - 3 times but which will almost certainly fool a few newbies, but that can be fixed with a bit of signage.. There are also a few earthen banks here and there that could do with barriers.

BelfastVanMan

Middle Man wrote: »

m17 wrote: »

It's going to be like this until 2024 unfortunately it doesn't matter which way you go getting across Galway city is a joke

I wonder will Athenry eventually develop into a city given its proximity to major road and rail links. Such could present an opportunity to start building a city from scratch and doing it right for the 21st century - that means higher density and proper transit systems.

Possibly..
looks like Apple's data centre is to go ahead, there.

JCX BXC

M6 looking very backed up on the coolagh roundabout again this morning, however looking even busier on the old N17 the whole way back past Claregalway this morning.

No delays on the old N18 whatsoever, free run the whole way to the Galway Clinic.

Middle Man

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Possibly..
looks like Apple's data centre is to go ahead, there.

I think it's under appeal again - really, I wonder will Apple take any more of this??? In a way, Apple pulling the plug will put the Irish planning 'system' in the spotlight - it's a joke and needs serious reform.

serfboard

Some midweek usage figures.

The M6 near the Oranmore junction:

Wed 20 Sep: 22K (22041)
Wed 27 Sep: 28K (28146)
Wed 04 Oct: 30K (30069)
Wed 11 Oct: 30K (29999)
Wed 18 Oct: 31K (30899)

An 8-9K (36-41%) jump in M6 traffic.

Meanwhile in Claregalway:

Wed 20 Sep: 22K (21755)
Wed 27 Sep: 20K (19585)
Wed 04 Oct: 18K (17796)
Wed 11 Oct: 18K (17877)
Wed 18 Oct: 18K (18409)

A 4K (18%) drop in N17 traffic.

And just south of Clarinbridge:

Wed 20 Sep: 20K (20318)
Wed 27 Sep: 18K (17530)
Wed 04 Oct: 13K (13409)
Wed 11 Oct: 13K (13409)
Wed 18 Oct: 13K (13419)

A 7K (35%) drop in N18 traffic.

So it seems Clarinbridge has been the big winner from the motorway. Claregalway has improved, but not by as much.

In fact, for Claregalway, at the peak hour (07:00) the decline over the month was by a whole 7 vehicles:

20/09/2017 07:00: 1292
18/10/2017 07:00: 1285

which confirmed the fears of people here that the motorway would make no difference to Claregalway at peak hours at all.

what_traffic

serfboard wrote: »

which confirmed the fears of people here that the motorway would make no difference to Claregalway at peak hours at all.

Useful stats but not at all surprising. Not sure about the "fear"? I think any rational analysis of the route and observation of pre-existing travel patterns for the past number of years one would have easily expected such an outcome. I say the travel stats for Tuam show the greatest change?

Middle Man

The success of this motorway will not really be measurable for about a decade. Again, the scheme is not about solving the Galway commute - it's about integrating the West as an economic corridor IMO. Businesses will have more options regarding base location in the coming years - towns like Claremorris, Tuam, Athenry, Gort, Ennis etc will surely become far more attractive for investment though the Irish planning system requires a major overhaul (Apple facing more delays over its data centre near Athenry). Knock and Shannon airports are surely going to benefit too.

marno21

Middle Man wrote: »

The success of this motorway will not really be measurable for about a decade. Again, the scheme is not about solving the Galway commute - it's about integrating the West as an economic corridor IMO. Businesses will have more options regarding base location in the coming years - towns like Claremorris, Tuam, Athenry, Gort, Ennis etc will surely become far more attractive for investment though the Irish planning system requires a major overhaul (Apple facing more delays over its data centre near Athenry). Knock and Shannon airports are surely going to benefit too.

Thank you!

Motorways do not solve commuter jams. They make them worse because they initially appear to solve the issue until the extra capacity is then filled by more commuters. This is whats currently happening in Limerick. Since 2001 the capacity of the old N7 and old N20 have been added to by the new M7 and M20. This means there's extra capacity on the motorway, ideal for those bypassing Limerick. But the commuters still have to leave the new motorways and join the old roads to get to their places of work, which were at capacity to begin with and now have additional traffic trying to use them. Limerick's traffic problem was "solved" but is now back to square one because of obscene numbers of commuters, especially to UL.

This notion of the motorway being a "failure" is correct if you live in Abbeyknockmoy and work in Parkmore. Or if you live in Tuam and work in the city centre. However, if you live in Castlebar and drive to Limerick or Shannon occasionally, its a godsend. Same as the M7. It is great for those driving to Dublin for the day. It's a holy show for commuters and is now so blocked that it's becoming a pain for long distance travel too as it takes so long to get out of Dublin. The M7 Naas bypass was built in 1983 to solve Naas' traffic problems and now the bypass is as congested as the town itself.

Anyone who suggests bypassing Claregalway etc. What's the point in saving a few minutes in Claregalway just to lengthen the jams approaching the N6?

More roads and roads isn't going to solve Galway's traffic. The large number of people commuting from Knocknacarra, Moycullen, Ballindooley, Claregalway, Oranmore and further in is the issue. If half of these people bought bikes or walked it would be more beneficial to them and to the city as a whole.

Quackster

marno21 wrote: »

Anyone who suggests bypassing Claregalway etc. What's the point in saving a few minutes in Claregalway just to lengthen the jams approaching the N6?

In fairness, the primary purpose of a bypass (or rather what's probably really required, a relief road) of Claregalway would be to improve the traffic-flow in and around Claregalway and, by so doing, improve the quality-of-life of those who live and work in Claregalway.

But you're absolutely right, building motorways for commuters in the end achieves nothing for commuters. We need to be pushing alternatives.

Middle Man

I think the way in which people are being urged to cycle is an admission that our planners have seriously screwed up and the current building practices belong firmly in the past. Proper planning should place most essential locations of day to day business well within walking distance (public transport included) - such would end the ridiculous school run and the car/bike commute. I would have town planning carried out in such a way so that commuting is far more balanced - for example, well used trains in both directions instead of sardine tins one direction and ghost carriages the other. Why we can't have multi-core planning in Ireland is beyond me.

My dream town is a new type of megastructure where the main means of getting about would be walking. An underground network of energy efficient travelators and escalators would link high-rise clusters thereby forming the backbone of the town's transit system. Most walking however would be in the open fresh air, but the underground corridors would also be an option in the event of bad weather or urgent business (to reduce impact on social spaces). For external travel needs, the railway station would be central (useful for any longer distance commuting) while road access would be via an external ring road with hired cars penetrating only enough to allow adequate area coverage - cars would be able to come into such a town, but never go through.

The above may be a pipe dream, but we seriously need new ideas - rather than turning the clock back to reduce the car commute, why not bring it forward to do likewise?

L1011

Quite a lot of the school run *is* within walking distance; just over-protective parents. Charging for parking/dropoff at schools with a waiver for those who can't actually use alternative means might help there.

marno21

Quackster wrote: »

In fairness, the primary purpose of a bypass (or rather what's probably really required, a relief road) of Claregalway would be to improve the traffic-flow in and around Claregalway and, by so doing, improve the quality-of-life of those who live and work in Claregalway.

But you're absolutely right, building motorways for commuters in the end achieves nothing for commuters. We need to be pushing alternatives.

This is Galway.

Steps:

1. The Government bows to political pressure and agree to fund the "N83 Claregalway Relief Road".
2. A few years later the road is built with state funding
3. The N83 from Tuam to Galway is detrunked.
4. Galway County Council zone land along the route for development
5. Several signalised junctions or roundabouts are placed along the route to give access to housing developments and "retail centres".
6. The "relief road" becomes as congested as the original N17 through Claregalway.

Middle Man

L1011 wrote: »

Quite a lot of the school run *is* within walking distance; just over-protective parents. Charging for parking/dropoff at schools with a waiver for those who can't actually use alternative means might help there.

Why can't there by more walking buses? Perhaps better footpaths are needed...

Middle Man

marno21 wrote: »

This is Galway.

Steps:

1. The Government bows to political pressure and agree to fund the "N83 Claregalway Relief Road".
2. A few years later the road is built with state funding
3. The N83 from Tuam to Galway is detrunked.
4. Galway County Council zone land along the route for development
5. Several signalised junctions or roundabouts are placed along the route to give access to housing developments and "retail centres".
6. The "relief road" becomes as congested as the original N17 through Claregalway.

Now, you said it mate!

No. 4 is the key point regarding the typical approach to planning in this country!

UsBus

marno21 wrote: »

. The large number of people commuting from Knocknacarra, Moycullen, Ballindooley, Claregalway, Oranmore and further in is the issue. If half of these people bought bikes or walked it would be more beneficial to them and to the city as a whole.

The idea that people around these areas are going to hop on their bikes to commute to work is a pipe dream. In cities with decent safe infrastructure maybe. The reality as well is, it pisses rain every other day in Galway so you are not going to convince people to cycle for a half hour through dangerous traffic in unreliable weather conditions and have time to shower and change before their work.....ain't ever going to happen