Journalism and cycling

average_runner · 22-12-2017 11:10am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

My own view is that young kids just dont like going to city centre and the reality is that there's not much for them to enjoy there. Its not a place for them. Its no fun for them. Under the age of one, thats fine. When they get to 5 or 6 though.......its stand here, wait here, hold my hand, cross now, walk for ages, wait for the bus, or spend ages looking for parking, stand in this shop, dont run away......

Kids do a piece in early primary school where they are given words and they have to make up sentences out of them. One day they had 'love' and 'hate'; my son wrote 'I hate town'.

Depends on how you do it with the kids, if you make it about them they love it!

Tombo2001 · 22-12-2017 11:17am

average_runner wrote: »

Depends on how you do it with the kids, if you make it about them they love it!

For sure.

Into town...
Stephens Green playground.
Pizza
Disney Store
Ice Cream
Home....

Sure they will enjoy that.

CramCycle · 22-12-2017 11:38am

My lad loves the bus and train, finds the car boring. I think it is because you can engage more with him on the commute. Even cycling is more fun, he calls out the turns to take, indicates, tells me when it is clear to go etc.

eeeee · 22-12-2017 11:51am

CramCycle wrote: »

<snip> Even cycling is more fun, he calls out the turns to take, indicates, tells me when it is clear to go etc.

That is adorable, in my head ye're like a little superhero commuting team. Aww!

magicbastarder · 22-12-2017 12:42pm

CramCycle wrote: »

he calls out the turns to take, indicates, tells me when it is clear to go etc.

i hope he has also learned to hurl abuse at idiotic road users.

CramCycle · 22-12-2017 2:18pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i hope he has also learned to hurl abuse at idiotic road users.

He does point out when they don't indicate, like a snitch, I am so proud (means he is observing more than just what is in front of him). Also calls other road users silly gooses when they pull out in front of us.

On the positive side he shouts out thank you and waves where people stop to let us cross on some the awful junctions using bike lanes, as some of them have no push for people to allow you to pass other than out of courtesy.

Overall I am happy with his development.

randomname2005 · 22-12-2017 3:05pm

CramCycle wrote: »

He does point out when they don't indicate, like a snitch, I am so proud (means he is observing more than just what is in front of him). Also calls other road users silly gooses when they pull out in front of us.

On the positive side he shouts out thank you and waves where people stop to let us cross on some the awful junctions using bike lanes, as some of them have no push for people to allow you to pass other than out of courtesy.

Overall I am happy with his development.

Sounds like I have to work on the development of my biggest one.

flatface · 23-12-2017 1:46am

Tombo2001 wrote: »

My own view is that young kids just dont like going to city centre and the reality is that there's not much for them to enjoy there. Its not a place for them. Its no fun for them. Under the age of one, thats fine. When they get to 5 or 6 though.......its stand here, wait here, hold my hand, cross now, walk for ages, wait for the bus, or spend ages looking for parking, stand in this shop, dont run away......

Kids do a piece in early primary school where they are given words and they have to make up sentences out of them. One day they had 'love' and 'hate'; my son wrote 'I hate town'.

its such a shame that shopping centres are more suitable for kids than our city and town centres. This could be easily reversed by prioritising pedestrians > cyclists > motorists and pedestrianising more of our cities. Just in Kilkenny at the moment with kids and it would be amazing if the main streets were pedestrianised with minimal traffic enterering the centre. We must demand more of our public space than just being able to drive through

average_runner · 23-12-2017 10:37am

flatface wrote: »

its such a shame that shopping centres are more suitable for kids than our city and town centres. This could be easily reversed by prioritising pedestrians > cyclists > motorists and pedestrianising more of our cities. Just in Kilkenny at the moment with kids and it would be amazing if the main streets were pedestrianised with minimal traffic enterering the centre. We must demand more of our public space than just being able to drive through

In fairness Henry and Grafton st is free from traffic. Kids loved it yesterday. Nice big evening walk and at arnotts shop window was great.

magicbastarder · 23-12-2017 11:43am

that'd be an interesting metric - what length of street in each of ireland's cities is pedestrianised.
found this on an old (2009) thread on boards, in answer to a question about pedestrianised streets in dublin:

Henry Street, North Earl Street, Mary Street, Moore Street, Liffey Street, South King Street, Grafton Street, Duke Street, South Anne Street, Chatham Street, Wicklow Street, Harry Street, Dame Lane and assorted lanes in Temple Bar. Many of these streets are pedestrian only at certain hours or are not fully pedestrianised; Henry Street and South King Street are two of the only totally pedestrian main streets throughout their length and are pretty much car free.

average_runner · 23-12-2017 11:51am

magicbastarder wrote: »

that'd be an interesting metric - what length of street in each of ireland's cities is pedestrianised.
found this on an old (2009) thread on boards, in answer to a question about pedestrianised streets in dublin:

A street can't be closed off all the time when there is shops. Shops need to get the deliveries in. Grafton st opens for awhile.

If street is closed off that should include bikes also

Shopping centres are taking over for a reason.

magicbastarder · 23-12-2017 12:05pm

granted, and that's reflected in the quote above.

worth mentioning also that shopping centres are taking over in no small part due to the population distribution in dublin, and across the country as a whole. the population density within the city in dublin has to be much lower than in many other european cities.

average_runner · 23-12-2017 1:00pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

granted, and that's reflected in the quote above.

worth mentioning also that shopping centres are taking over in no small part due to the population distribution in dublin, and across the country as a whole. the population density within the city in dublin has to be much lower than in many other european cities.

Yep very true. Also a nightmare to get into the city but council don't see that.

tomasrojo · 23-12-2017 7:07pm

IrishCycle.com had an article about it a good while back. Apparently pop. density between the canals in Dublin is pretty much the same as a lot of other European cities, including Amsterdam.

23-12-2017 7:11pm

Piece on 6 one news there about I bike dublin and the policing of cycle lanes in dublin.

Arcade_Tryer · 23-12-2017 11:15pm

As well as being almost completely anti-cyclist, Dublin city is also very pedestrian unfriendly.

Just observe how long people have to spend waiting at lights before crossing streets across the city.

monument · 23-12-2017 11:47pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

IrishCycle.com had an article about it a good while back. Apparently pop. density between the canals in Dublin is pretty much the same as a lot of other European cities, including Amsterdam.

I’ve an overview kept at http://irishcycle.com/pop/

Amsterdam’s equlivent area of between the canals actually has a bit higher density (around 10,000 people per square km vs 9,000 for Dublin).

There’s little different at historic city boundary level but Dublin pulls ahead when it comes to continuous urban area — which is the international measurement for what is the an urban settlement.

I’ve written two articles on this but the myth has only got worse in the last year with suggestions that Dublin is a low density city and that’s part of the housing supply issue (when a ton of land hording is going on and there’s loads of development land with planning permission).

Is Dublin a low density city?
http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/03/is-dublin-a-low-density-city/

3 of 7 excuses why Ireland can't copy cycling in the Netherlands http://irishcycle.com/2016/11/20/%ef%bb%bf3-of-7-excuses-why-ireland-cant-copy-cycling-in-the-netherlands%ef%bb%bf/

The later has updated data.

magicbastarder · 24-12-2017 1:25am

monument wrote: »

There’s little different at historic city boundary level but Dublin pulls ahead when it comes to continuous urban area — which is the international measurement for what is the an urban settlement.

to clarify - in relation to shopping centres, it was dublin's geographical sprawl i was referring to.

monument · 24-12-2017 1:52am

magicbastarder wrote: »

to clarify - in relation to shopping centres, it was dublin's geographical sprawl i was referring to.

What geographical sprawl?

The continuous urban area of Dublin has a higher population density than that of Amsterdam and most EU cities of a similar population size.

average_runner wrote: »

A street can't be closed off all the time when there is shops. Shops need to get the deliveries in. Grafton st opens for awhile.

If street is closed off that should include bikes also

Shopping centres are taking over for a reason.

Bringing up deliveries when someone mentions more pedestrian streets is a red herring.

And, sure, most pedestrian streets won’t include cycling but what do you mean “If street is closed off that should include bikes also”? No bike/bus streets? No bike only streets? Why not?

I don’t see a huge amount of bike only streets, but South William Street is a good candidate.

monument · 24-12-2017 2:19am

average_runner wrote: »

Shopping centres are taking over for a reason.

Are they “taking over”?

They might be taking a larger slice of the pie than the city centre did years ago but it’s a much expanded city now.

The city centre’s image may suffer because (a) retailers talk it down despite themselves, and (b) some outer suburb residents think that because they don’t shop much in the city centre anymore, nobody does.

But the reality is like this: “Occupancy levels on Grafton, Henry and Mary streets – Dublin city’s main shopping thoroughfares – are currently 95 to 100 per cent.” https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/irish-retail-back-to-more-normalised-level-of-investment-1.3316428?mode=amp

average_runner wrote: »

Yep very true. Also a nightmare to get into the city but council don't see that.

The council are doing a fair bit now to give priority to the modes of transport which can carry the most people.

It doesn’t help that public transport capital funding is controlled by national governments which nearly always have a dysfunctional view of the city.

Pinch Flat · 24-12-2017 9:38am

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

As well as being almost completely anti-cyclist, Dublin city is also very pedestrian unfriendly.

Just observe how long people have to spend waiting at lights before crossing streets across the city.

There’s also a lot of junctions / crossings without pedestrian lights where you have to take your chances in between the traffic light sequences of motorised vehicles. Merrion square at the davenort was on that was addressed recently but continue to Merrion row on foot and there’s no convenient place to cross if you’re waking to hike street or Pembroke square / street

ED E · 24-12-2017 8:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Piece on 6 one news there about I bike dublin and the policing of cycle lanes in dublin.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/944648452151025664

magicbastarder · 24-12-2017 9:17pm

not the usual fodder for this thread:
Do Bikes Belong in Wilderness Areas?
https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/do-bikes-belong-wilderness-areas

magicbastarder · 26-12-2017 4:18pm

New York City's electric bike delivery workers face crackdown
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/25/new-york-citys-electric-bike-delivery-workers-face-crackdown

Under city law, the bikes are legal to own and sell, but riding them on the street can lead to a fine of up to $500.

that's a little odd.

ED E · 26-12-2017 8:38pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

New York City's electric bike delivery workers face crackdown
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/25/new-york-citys-electric-bike-delivery-workers-face-crackdown

that's a little odd.

Not really if they arent classed as pedelecs. Same as the lads here using lawnmower engines on bikes - its an untaxed, uninsured, no NCT or roadworthiness cert moped.

rubadub · 26-12-2017 8:38pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/25/new-york-citys-electric-bike-delivery-workers-face-crackdown

Under city law, the bikes are legal to own and sell, but riding them on the street can lead to a fine of up to $500.

that's a little odd.

not really, the same can be said about those petrol yokes here that are technically motorbikes and illegal to use on the road.

Not sure of the laws in NY but they are presumably talking about ones which are illegal. Or else the journo or person stating it is misinformed, which also would not be particularly odd!

magicbastarder · 31-12-2017 11:30am

http://www.thejournal.ie/dcc-cycling-3750674-Dec2017/

robyntmorton · 31-12-2017 11:59am

magicbastarder wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/dcc-cycling-3750674-Dec2017/

Journal... Comments... GAAAHHHHH!!!

One says the 15 dead cyclists this year is their own faults.

Muahahaha · 31-12-2017 6:54pm

From the Journal article Brendan OBrien of DCC seems to think cyclists can use motorways

Asked about whether the needs of cyclists were ignored when the route of the Luas Cross City was being designed, O’Brien says the charge doesn’t really stack up because the planners had little option.

“You’re putting a tram track into a very narrow space in the city, going down Dawson Street into Nassau Street, there is no space,” he says.

“So that would be a correct accusation if we had a lot of space and we didn’t make any specific provision, but there’s barely room for the two trams. There’s certainly no room either side for cyclists.”

You can can make the same argument elsewhere, the State built billions on building up motorways and cyclists can use motorways. We’re not saying they can’t use tram tracks, but we are saying ‘look, you’ve got to be careful’.

tomasrojo · 31-12-2017 7:17pm

They misqouted him, I assume, and he meant to say "cyclists can't use motorways"? The logic of his comments is that other stuff is built that cyclist can't use.

But they didn't make any effort to accommodate cyclists on what, despite the Luas tracks, remain major cycling routes. It's a reasonable charge to level at them.