Journalism and cycling

Weepsie

There's also an explainer about helmets and why forcing them on cyclists would be wrong

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/video/2018/may/31/why-forcing-cyclists-to-wear-helmets-will-not-save-lives-video-explainer

and in the print issue there is a small but good piece on why you mostly see racing cyclists commutting in London (ie the infrastructure is crap)

Fian

magicbastarder wrote: »

nope; murder can be committed by someone who is wilfully reckless towards human life, without actual intent.

Reckless killing can be manslaughter but not murder in ireland. For murder you must intend to kill or cause serious injury, though the law reform commission has recommended it should be expanded to cover some wilfully reckless acts:

The Commission considers that the label “murder” should cover the most heinous killings. The Commission therefore recommends that it should continue to be murder where the accused intended to kill or cause serious injury; but the Commission also recommends that the mental element in murder should be broadened to include reckless killings manifesting an extreme indifference to human life. Under this proposal, a person who planted a bomb in a busy office block could be convicted of murder if someone dies in the blast even if his main purpose was to cause criminal damage, rather than to injure or kill anyone

http://www.lawreform.ie/2008/290108-report-on-homocide-murder-and-involuntary-manslaughter.180.html

magicbastarder

hmm. i thought they'd changed it after that chap set fire to tallaght garda station. must not have happened.

Rechuchote

You can be charged with murder if you kill in the course of committing a crime, too - like if you're robbing a bank and you shoot someone and they die.

magicbastarder

i think that's what is referred to as a felony murder in the US.

ED E

https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/drumnamether-road-tandragee-closed-after-14730668.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Fian

magicbastarder wrote: »

hmm. i thought they'd changed it after that chap set fire to tallaght garda station. must not have happened.

Well maybe there has been a recent change?

I used to practice criminal law but not in the last 15 years, though tbh I would be surprised if they had changed the law on murder and i was unaware of it.

tomasrojo

Weepsie wrote: »

and in the print issue there is a small but good piece on why you mostly see racing cyclists commutting in London (ie the infrastructure is crap)

Is that actually true though -- that most of the cyclists in London are more or less roadies? I've noticed a few people saying that about Dublin, and I don't think it's true of Dublin, though there certainly are quite a lot.

Chips Lovell

Not in my experience. Mix of bike types is quite similar to what you'd see in Dublin, i.e. anything and everything.

magicbastarder

Fian wrote: »

Well maybe there has been a recent change?

i think i remember it being talked about - but as that incident was probably 20 years ago, if nothing happened in the aftermath, it probably hasn't happened since.

it was the one where someone sprayed petrol inside the station and set fire to it - IIRC a garda died, but the defendant was able to argue in court that it was a suicide attempt and not an attempt to kill anyone else. there were calls for the law to be changed after this, so that someone who was wilfully reckless in that manner could be charged with murder.

Rechuchote

http://www.lawreform.ie/2008/290108-report-on-homocide-murder-and-involuntary-manslaughter.180.html

The law of homicide in Ireland is currently divided into murder and manslaughter. Murder occurs if a person intended to kill, or cause serious injury to, another person who dies as a result. Murder convictions can include situations where a killing was planned in advance; where the victim was knowingly shot; and where the accused is aware that the natural consequences of their actions would lead to death. For example, in The People (DPP) v John Cullen (1982), the accused was convicted of murder after he had thrown a fire bomb through the window of a house and where three women in the house died in the resulting blaze.

CramCycle

Fian wrote: »

Reckless killing can be manslaughter but not murder in ireland. For murder you must intend to kill or cause serious injury, though the law reform commission has recommended it should be expanded to cover some wilfully reckless acts:

Rechuchote wrote: »

You can be charged with murder if you kill in the course of committing a crime, too - like if you're robbing a bank and you shoot someone and they die.

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think that's what is referred to as a felony murder in the US.

For the legal minded in the above, manslaughter is one thing, where there was no intention to hit the cyclist, it happened due to negligence, not paying attention. Even though you could reasonably argue that the driver should have known it was a possible consequence.

For the murder aspect though, a driver gets enraged at me in the roadway, for whatever reason, and shouts at me to get off the road, threatens me. In a moment of blind fury, swings in and I die as a result. I (now deceased) have it on camera that the knock was intentional, they may not have meant to kill me but they did intend to hurt me (maybe they did intend death in that moment of rage). Is this murder? I presume it would be, its not premeditated in regards well thought out but it is certainly not accidental, it is a deliberate act to severely harm another person.

These are questions posed as statements as I have no idea if I am thinking about it correctly

check_six

I have come to the conclusion that a mangled bike thrown down beside someone who was bereft of life, for whatever reason, was a sure way to get out of any serious legal repercussions.

The Forces of Law and Order: "This man has been stabbed in the back! You are responsible."

Ne'er-Do-Well: "Well you see, he was riding a bike at the time, and he didn't have hi-viz on" *points to random mangled bike and an empty space with no hi-viz jacket*

The Forces of Law and Order: "An open and shut case then. He brought it on himself. Be on your way, sonny!"

Fian

CramCycle wrote: »

For the legal minded in the above, manslaughter is one thing, where there was no intention to hit the cyclist, it happened due to negligence, not paying attention. Even though you could reasonably argue that the driver should have known it was a possible consequence.

For the murder aspect though, a driver gets enraged at me in the roadway, for whatever reason, and shouts at me to get off the road, threatens me. In a moment of blind fury, swings in and I die as a result. I (now deceased) have it on camera that the knock was intentional, they may not have meant to kill me but they did intend to hurt me (maybe they did intend death in that moment of rage). Is this murder? I presume it would be, its not premeditated in regards well thought out but it is certainly not accidental, it is a deliberate act to severely harm another person.

These are questions posed as statements as I have no idea if I am thinking about it correctly

Yes & Yes.

Problem is that unless you had a confession the second example is normally impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt - that it was deliberate rather than an accident.

Anyway perhaps discussions on the legal components of murder may be getting a bit off topic at this stage, even though i know I was the one who introduced it :P

Lumen

Swoon.

Benedict Cumberbatch 'saves cyclist from four attackers in London'
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/jun/02/benedict-cumberbatch-saves-deliveroo-cyclist-london

I'm amused when journos are so lazy they just put whole chunks of the headline in quote marks so that they don't have to bother checking facts or asserting an opinion.

Alternatively...

"Benedict Cumberbatch 'saves' cyclist from four attackers in London"
Sarcasm.

"Benedict Cumberbatch saves 'cyclist' from four attackers in London"
Anti-Deliveroo roadie elitism.

"Benedict Cumberbatch saves cyclist from four 'attackers' in London"
Ah, they were just messing.

"Benedict Cumberbatch saves cyclist from 'four' attackers in London"
There were three attackers but one had a conjoined twin.

"Benedict Cumberbatch saves cyclist from four attackers in 'London'"
It happened in Croydon.

"'Benedict Cumberbatch' saves cyclist from four attackers in London"
Nobody believes he was born with this name.

"'Benedict Cumberbatch saves cyclist from four attackers in London'"
We just copy/pasted this from the Daily Mail and have no idea if it actually happened.

Chips Lovell

Deliveroo us Benedict from every evil.

RobertFoster

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Deliveroo us Benedict from every evil.

And grant us pizza in our days.

magicbastarder

not so much journalism, as it's posted to a blog, but an interesting comment anyway:

http://cassandravoices.com/environment/drive-time-the-irish-medias-message/

jjpep

magicbastarder wrote: »

not so much journalism, as it's posted to a blog, but an interesting comment anyway:

http://cassandravoices.com/environment/drive-time-the-irish-medias-message/

Excellent piece.

magicbastarder

Government doesn’t know how many availed of ‘cycle-to-work’ scheme

The Government has been criticised for failing to review the operation and cost of the cycle-to-work tax-relief scheme, which encourages employees to commute on two wheels.
...
When it was introduced the government anticipated an uptake of about 7,000 in the first five years of the scheme but it has no figures on how many people actually availed of the tax relief.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-doesn-t-know-how-many-availed-of-cycle-to-work-scheme-1.3518217

AndrewJRenko

magicbastarder wrote: »

Government doesn’t know how many availed of ‘cycle-to-work’ scheme

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-doesn-t-know-how-many-availed-of-cycle-to-work-scheme-1.3518217

Am I right in recalling there was some vaguely anti-cycling question(s) from Roisin in the past? It's a fairly simple principle that the cost of monitoring will outweigh the benefit in some situations. I'm surprised someone of her experience doesn't get this.

AndrewJRenko

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Conor is paid by the AA, a motoring organisation. So he knows what side his bread is buttered on.
.

It's not a motoring organisation. It doesn't have members any more. It is a business, that sells products - mostly insurance, and a breakdown service on the side - to motorists. It has no greater claim to be an expert on motoring than anyone from 123.ie or FBD.

buffalo wrote: »

I read it on Saturday. It's an odd article essentially arguing that cycling is great and healthy, but is the hobby of the elite rich people, written in a constantly condescending tone.

Having spent some time 'on the line' with IBikeDublin over the past year, I got a very clear view of the very intense mix of commuting cyclists in Dublin - young/old, male/female, native Irish and non-native. The mamil stereotype of rich white men couldn't be further from the truth.

tomasrojo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Am I right in recalling there was some vaguely anti-cycling question(s) from Roisin in the past? It's a fairly simple principle that the cost of monitoring will outweigh the benefit in some situations. I'm surprised someone of her experience doesn't get this.

When she was Transport spokesperson for the Labour party, some years ago, I wrote to her about repealing the SI that made all cycle tracks mandatory to use for cyclists. She replied courteously, but her opinion was that some way needed to be found that would not give cyclists carte blanche to use the roads.


I got the impression that she's not against cycling, except when it comes into conflict with any other transport mode. Which means she is against cycling really, except for Freds-in-the-park cycling maybe.


It comes up with left-wing politicians a bit, I've found, this notion that funding cycling is depriving bus users of much-needed money, or that the driving rights of working-class people are being denied.

tomasrojo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Am I right in recalling there was some vaguely anti-cycling question(s) from Roisin in the past? It's a fairly simple principle that the cost of monitoring will outweigh the benefit in some situations. I'm surprised someone of her experience doesn't get this.

It's a maximum fraud of €100 per annum per person. The who-give-a-**** end of fraud, really.

Corca Baiscinn

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Having spent some time 'on the line' with IBikeDublin over the past year, I got a very clear view of the very intense mix of commuting cyclists in Dublin - young/old, male/female, native Irish and non-native. The mamil stereotype of rich white men couldn't be further from the truth.

You wrote this in response to Buffalo's comments re David McWilliams Mamils/willows article buti n fairness to McWilliams from what I recall, it was pretty clear that he was writing about the Club Cyclist phenomenon as observed in Wicklow on a Sat/Sun am. Dont think he was expressing any view re the social/gender mix of bike commuters. A few of his recent articles have referred to congestion caused by cars and to driving children to school so I'd like to think he's on our side!

Ray Bloody Purchase

I have a mental image of Gardai sniggering in bushes as some gurrier creams himself trying to ride off on a rigged bike.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/garda-bait-bikes-plan-to-swoop-on-thieves-leads-to-arrests-in-capital-36978218.html

magicbastarder

roisin shortall seems to have been asking multiple questions about bikes recently.

Miklos

magicbastarder wrote: »

roisin shortall seems to have been asking multiple questions about bikes recently.

She should be directed to the Bike To Work Megathread.

tomasrojo

Apart from the convinced cycling haters, I suspect a lot of opposition to cycling funding and cycling infrastructure projects is that these are vote losers.

Not necessarily so, apparently:
From Brentford to Brooklyn, cycling improvements are clear votewinners
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2018/jun/05/from-brentford-to-brooklyn-cycling-improvements-are-clear-votewinners

Chips Lovell

After seeing how the other half live by taking the bus last year, our intrepid Transport Minister has once again sallied forth and this time experienced for himself what a rickshaw ride was like. Alas, unlike the bus, the experience seems to have left him rattled.

"I was on one myself late one night and I was pretty shocked quite honestly because it confirmed everything that I had heard about them," he said.

"They charged me €10 from George's Street to St Stephens Green and on the first trip the driver certainly broke traffic lights. It wasn't very comfortable. The return journey, when I asked for the price, they responded 'whatever you like'."

Imagine. He was lucky he didn't drop his monocle.