Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Journalism and cycling

Options
1…167168170172173…334

Comments

  • Options
    #5072
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It's not a matter of whether I believe you or not. It's a matter of whether I believe that death of pedestrians by suicide is a real issue in Ireland.


    We hear fairly regularly about death by suicide on train tracks, and even occasionally off motorway bridges. Personally, I can't recall ever hearing details of a a single case of death of pedestrians by suicide.


    Has anyone got any reputable, definitive reports of such cases in Ireland in living memory?

    It has happened on the M50, not sure how common it is. There are a few deaths on the M50 that could have been but evidence was not clear cut so I think you won't find too many reports of it. Google it though and there is definitely one.

    I came from a part of Ireland where suicide by young men was quite common, to be honest, there hasn't been a question on suicide here that I haven't heard or seen the answer too in my youth. I would be very doubtful that the Gardai or the Coroner ruled suicide, typically death by misadventure if memory serves.


  • Options
    #5073
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    CramCycle wrote: »
    It has happened on the M50, not sure how common it is. There are a few deaths on the M50 that could have been but evidence was not clear cut so I think you won't find too many reports of it. Google it though and there is definitely one.

    I came from a part of Ireland where suicide by young men was quite common, to be honest, there hasn't been a question on suicide here that I haven't heard or seen the answer too in my youth. I would be very doubtful that the Gardai or the Coroner ruled suicide, typically death by misadventure if memory serves.
    Just to be absolutely clear - are you saying it has happened by people running out on the M50, or by jumping from bridges?


    And if the reports are as vague as you suggest, does it really make any sense for us to be taking this into account in road safety discussions?


  • Options
    #5074
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Just to be absolutely clear - are you saying it has happened by people running out on the M50, or by jumping from bridges?


    And if the reports are as vague as you suggest, does it really make any sense for us to be taking this into account in road safety discussions?

    Apologies, report did not say suicide, ran out in front of truck at Junction. Pedestrian on the M50 without car / vehicle. Could be a range of reasons though. Most suicides on the M50 are from bridge jumping AFAIK

    http://www.thejournal.ie/long-delays-on-m50-3170474-Jan2017/


  • Options
    #5075
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Walked up to my strength and conditioning class last night. Good job I did have my torch, as despite wearing my ProViz 360, it's feck all use when it's dark and so many are driving around on daylight running lights....


  • Options
    #5076
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    And if the reports are as vague as you suggest, does it really make any sense for us to be taking this into account in road safety discussions?

    I think that is more a case of attitudes towards mental health in Ireland rather than road safety, if someone wants to kill themselves, they will succeed. A judge would have discretion if charges were brought, which would be doubtful as the DPP would simply say no unless there was some doubt.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #5077
    cjt156
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭cjt156


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Has anyone got any reputable, definitive reports of such cases in Ireland in living memory?

    There was a case of a St John of God's patient running in front of a Dublin Bus on the N11 some years back. I know because my sister was on the bus.

    Such cases are probably very rare - as with train suicides. But as they are harder to define as suicides they may be regarded as even rarer. The same goes for single vehicle occupant fatalities. In many cases we can never know for sure.


  • Options
    #5078
    Steoller
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭Steoller


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    meeeeh wrote: »
    I don't know about coroners report but the call to Gardai was reported in media because they wanted to talk to the person who made it. My nationality is relatively rare in Ireland so I'm not posting links with local specifics and losing my anonymity, I 'm not going to cry if you don't believe me.
    It's not a matter of whether I believe you or not. It's a matter of whether I believe that death of pedestrians by suicide is a real issue in Ireland.


    We hear fairly regularly about death by suicide on train tracks, and even occasionally off motorway bridges. Personally, I can't recall ever hearing details of a a single case of death of pedestrians by suicide.


    Has anyone got any reputable, definitive reports of such cases in Ireland in living memory?
    There was a lad in my younger brother's year in secondary school did it. On the town's (then) new bypass.


  • Options
    #5079
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It's not a matter of whether I believe you or not. It's a matter of whether I believe that death of pedestrians by suicide is a real issue in Ireland.


    We hear fairly regularly about death by suicide on train tracks, and even occasionally off motorway bridges. Personally, I can't recall ever hearing details of a a single case of death of pedestrians by suicide.


    Has anyone got any reputable, definitive reports of such cases in Ireland in living memory?

    In the last 25 years, I am aware of two cases, where young men stepped out in front of lorries, one in Louth, one in Meath.
    As far as I remember, neither was recorded as suicide.


  • Options
    #5080
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I actually misread your post, I thought that you claimed that even if there is no prosecution or someone is found not guilty that they are still guilty. Sorry about that. My point stands though extreme cases tend not to be even prosecuted. I know of an example where someone was attempting suicide by running in front of the cars dressed in dark clothing on a 100 kph road. Two managed to avoid him someone even called Gardai and while they were on the way another unfortunate car killed him. You can't really blame the driver for that. As by the by I don't know how statistically significant it is but there is a tendency in Ireland not to classify suicide as a suicide if there is another option. Car crashing into the wall, someone driving of the pier and similar are often not accidents.

    Anyone who has spent time with someone who's having a psychotic breakdown will say "yes, sadly, maybe" to this. Tragic that the Gardaí didn't arrive in time.


  • Options
    #5081
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Gardai urged to investigate road rage incidents against cyclists (they really should be talking to some of the shock jocks too, about whether their incitement is appropriate)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/investigate-road-rage-against-cyclists-garda-urged-tf8p0l9m9


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #5082
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Gardai urged to investigate road rage incidents against cyclists (they really should be talking to some of the shock jocks too, about whether their incitement is appropriate)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/investigate-road-rage-against-cyclists-garda-urged-tf8p0l9m9

    Heard a bit on the radio on the lunchtime show on newstalk yesterday with a fellow from The Times (Richard Oakley, maybe?). He spoke very well about cycling in the city, cyclists rights, cyclepath laws, and motorists responsibilities. It was unusual as they didn't have some headbanger on roaring about cyclists as faux balance. Inevitably, there were a couple of texts in from oddbods later, but I thought it was a refreshing change from previous newstalk efforts. Who can forget a previous incumbent of the evening drivetime slot constantly harranguing and dehumanising cyclists at every opportunity to a listenership who were mostly behind the wheel as the show was on.


  • Options
    #5083
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    (they really should be talking to some of the shock jocks too, about whether their incitement is appropriate)
    Again, not cycling, but the way they covered pedestrian road safety on their motoring slot on the Last Word last night was appauling. Not sure who the presenter was (wasn't Cooper), but he was 100% focused on victim blaming, and it was the motoring hack that kept trying to bring it back to car tech and driver behaviour. Seemingly all incidents are "phone zombies" just walking in front of cars*.

    *I've had a few near misses with pedestrians on the bike with them wandering onto cycle lanes, stepping off the curb and then looking. I can't remember a single incident in the car though!


  • Options
    #5084
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    There was one case in the recent past where one of the deaths of a person cycling was likely due to suicide but wasn't recorded as such by the coroner. The coroner then tried to push non-helmet use as a cause of death.


  • Options
    #5085
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Steoller wrote: »
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    meeeeh wrote: »
    I don't know about coroners report but the call to Gardai was reported in media because they wanted to talk to the person who made it. My nationality is relatively rare in Ireland so I'm not posting links with local specifics and losing my anonymity, I 'm not going to cry if you don't believe me.
    It's not a matter of whether I believe you or not. It's a matter of whether I believe that death of pedestrians by suicide is a real issue in Ireland.


    We hear fairly regularly about death by suicide on train tracks, and even occasionally off motorway bridges. Personally, I can't recall ever hearing details of a a single case of death of pedestrians by suicide.


    Has anyone got any reputable, definitive reports of such cases in Ireland in living memory?
    There was a lad in my younger brother's year in secondary school did it. On the town's (then) new bypass.
    Is there any definitive, reputable reports of this case?


  • Options
    #5086
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Eamonnator wrote: »
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It's not a matter of whether I believe you or not. It's a matter of whether I believe that death of pedestrians by suicide is a real issue in Ireland.


    We hear fairly regularly about death by suicide on train tracks, and even occasionally off motorway bridges. Personally, I can't recall ever hearing details of a a single case of death of pedestrians by suicide.


    Has anyone got any reputable, definitive reports of such cases in Ireland in living memory?

    In the last 25 years, I am aware of two cases, where young men stepped out in front of lorries, one in Louth, one in Meath.
    As far as I remember, neither was recorded as suicide.
    Are there any definitive, reputable reports of these cases?

    And if they are as rare as this, do we really need to take them into account in roads policy?


  • Options
    #5087
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Is there any definitive, reputable reports of this case?

    No they won't be. Mostly is people who know the families or deceased and know what happened. There is a stigma around reporting of the suicide. I'm posting a Sindo article because it short but you can find more reliable sources online about suicide under reporting.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/some-coroners-underreport-cases-of-suicide-26838359.html

    I'm not saying it will significantly change the traffic statistics but frankly I doubt that many people alone in the car suddenly crash into the wall at high speed by accident.


  • Options
    #5088
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,232 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    The euphemism is usually 'died tragically' or similar in a lot of reported cases. I have wondered in the past if there's also consideration so as to avoid issues around life assurance.


  • Options
    #5089
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Are there any definitive, reputable reports of these cases?

    And if they are as rare as this, do we really need to take them into account in roads policy?

    In the two cases, that I mentioned, there was an "understanding" between Gardai, Local state solicitor, medical people and coroner. So, no, no reports.


  • Options
    #5090
    Steoller
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭Steoller


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Is there any definitive, reputable reports of this case?
    Possibly. You would have to write to the Coroner's court to get the verdict they returned, though, as the verdicts are not publicly available online.


  • Options
    #5091
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    meeeeh wrote: »
    frankly I doubt that many people alone in the car suddenly crash into the wall at high speed by accident.

    Depends. I've fallen asleep at the wheel in the days when I used to work 12-hour shifts; I've also passed out for a microsecond halfway through a turn a couple of weeks after having a light anaesthetic.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #5092
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Steoller wrote: »
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Is there any definitive, reputable reports of this case?
    Possibly. You would have to write to the Coroner's court to get the verdict they returned, though, as the verdicts are not publicly available online.
    Would it not have been reported in the press, like most Coroner's verdicts?


  • Options
    #5093
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Eamonnator wrote: »
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Are there any definitive, reputable reports of these cases?

    And if they are as rare as this, do we really need to take them into account in roads policy?

    In the two cases, that I mentioned, there was an "understanding" between Gardai, Local state solicitor, medical people and coroner. So, no, no reports.
    Am I naive to think (or to hope) that the days of such 'understandings' have passed? And that the public duty of these officials would take priority over the hush hush scandal games?


  • Options
    #5094
    Steoller
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭Steoller


    In the case I've told you about, evidently not, or I would have linked it.

    As an aside, I don't understand why you're railing against this, like it doesn't happen, or it's a myth because we can't produce the reports for you. Society in this country has a terrible attitude to mental health as a whole and suicide in particular. Is it so hard to believe that reporters, doctors, and Gardai in such a society would omit suicide as a cause of death in these circumstances, to spare a family? That they would find it too ghoulish to record it that way officially unless they had no other choice?


  • Options
    #5095
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,941 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Is there any definitive, reputable reports of this case?
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Am I naive to think (or to hope) that the days of such 'understandings' have passed? And that the public duty of these officials would take priority over the hush hush scandal games?

    Alas you are Naive. It is not as common as it used to be, or maybe it is, with people accepting it is a thing and there is nothing to be gained by hiding it but it definitely still happens, between people still hiding notes till years later and my local paper still describing such events as "tragic accidents" when it's been made clear friends of the family have reached out and asked for it not to be phrased that way.


  • Options
    #5096
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Depends. I've fallen asleep at the wheel in the days when I used to work 12-hour shifts; I've also passed out for a microsecond halfway through a turn a couple of weeks after having a light anaesthetic.
    That can happen, I'm not denying that but you have to be a bit unlucky to do it just when you approaching a wall on deserted country road.


  • Options
    #5097
    Steoller
    Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭Steoller


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Eamonnator wrote: »
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Are there any definitive, reputable reports of these cases?

    And if they are as rare as this, do we really need to take them into account in roads policy?

    In the two cases, that I mentioned, there was an "understanding" between Gardai, Local state solicitor, medical people and coroner. So, no, no reports.
    Am I naive to think (or to hope) that the days of such 'understandings' have passed? And that the public duty of these officials would take priority over the hush hush scandal games?
    Old and bad habits die hard, unfortunately.


  • Options
    #5098
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    While the press is allowed attend any inquest, it usually only reports on a small number of them.


  • Options
    #5099
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,079 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Baron de Charlus wrote: »
    While the press is allowed attend any inquest, it usually only reports on a small number of them.
    Press can attend ALL Coroner's inquests, surely?


  • Options
    #5100
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Press can attend ALL Coroner's inquests, surely?

    Yes, that's correct.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #5101
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,176 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Hurrache wrote: »
    The euphemism is usually 'died tragically' or similar in a lot of reported cases. I have wondered in the past if there's also consideration so as to avoid issues around life assurance.

    This. Anybody who's ever had an insurance claim will know it can be difficult to get them to pay out.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement