Journalism and cycling

mr spuckler

Ferris wrote: »

Gave a statement that day on a close one pass that occurred on the 10th Jan, reported on the 16th, contacted by a Garda on Friday and statement given with a usb containing a vid today. Agreed the usb piece is a bit odd but overall it was relatively painless and the Gardaí involved were sound. Once the behavior is there it’s more likely that a less wasteful process could be implemented in future.

I've also had a positive (ish) experience when reporting. Garda himself was sound and showed real concern (he used to race so there was a connection for him) but the whole process itself took an inordinate amount of time. reported in December 2017, only made it to court in September 2018. she pleaded guilty to careless driving and afaik didn't even get penalty points because her barrister came up with some restorative justice alternative, which the Garda told me afterwards that he's never head of wrt to driving offences.

buffalo

mr spuckler wrote: »

I've also had a positive (ish) experience when reporting. Garda himself was sound and showed real concern (he used to race so there was a connection for him) but the whole process itself took an inordinate amount of time. reported in December 2017, only made it to court in September 2018. she pleaded guilty to careless driving and afaik didn't even get penalty points because her barrister came up with some restorative justice alternative, which the Garda told me afterwards that he's never head of wrt to driving offences.

Wouldn't restorative justice involve you, and therefore you'd have to accept it?

mr spuckler

buffalo wrote: »

Wouldn't restorative justice involve you, and therefore you'd have to accept it?

you'd think so from the name, while I wasn't the victim I was the only witness / complainant. as I said the Garda had never heard of this approach for a driving case and I've certainly never heard anything since as a follow-up...
I think even though that's the name the barrister gave to it that it may be more of an education / corrective approach without the severity of an endorsement & conviction which would have automatically applied otherwise.

Duckjob

mr spuckler wrote: »

I've also had a positive (ish) experience when reporting. Garda himself was sound and showed real concern (he used to race so there was a connection for him) but the whole process itself took an inordinate amount of time. reported in December 2017, only made it to court in September 2018. she pleaded guilty to careless driving and afaik didn't even get penalty points because her barrister came up with some restorative justice alternative, which the Garda told me afterwards that he's never head of wrt to driving offences.

Isn't that, the whole reporting problem in a nutshell though?

I mean, you were thankfully lucky in your experience, but having a decent shot at getting justice shouldn't depend on happening upon a guard that used to race, or is a keen cyclist himself, or whose wife is a keen cyclist, etc etc.
Anybody should be able to walk into any garda station, and make a complaint and it should be followed up in a standard procedure. It most certainly should not be down to the personal pro/ambivalent/anti attitudes of individual gardai towards cyclists as it seems to be right now.

mr spuckler

Duckjob wrote: »

Isn't that, the whole reporting problem in a nutshell though?

I mean, you were thankfully lucky in your experience, but having a decent shot at getting justice shouldn't depend on happening upon a guard that used to race, or is a keen cyclist himself, or whose wife is a keen cyclist, etc etc.
Anybody should be able to walk into any garda station, and make a complaint and it should be followed up in a standard procedure. It most certainly should not be down to the personal pro/ambivalent/anti attitudes of individual gardai towards cyclists as it seems to be right now.

I fully agree and that's why I mentioned it. I've no doubt it'd have been more difficult if it was your average Garda.
he also mentioned that he doesn't & wouldn't cycle anymore because he feels it's not safe enough...

check_six

Duckjob wrote: »

Isn't that, the whole reporting problem in a nutshell though?

I mean, you were thankfully lucky in your experience, but having a decent shot at getting justice shouldn't depend on happening upon a guard that used to race, or is a keen cyclist himself, or whose wife is a keen cyclist, etc etc.
Anybody should be able to walk into any garda station, and make a complaint and it should be followed up in a standard procedure. It most certainly should not be down to the personal pro/ambivalent/anti attitudes of individual gardai towards cyclists as it seems to be right now.

One can only imagine:
"I reported a bank heist in progress. Fortunately, the guard I reported it to was a big fan of buddy cop movies and had every episode of The Bill on VHS so they got right on it!"

Corca Baiscinn

Ferris wrote: »

Gave a statement that day on a close one pass that occurred on the 10th Jan, reported on the 16th, contacted by a Garda on Friday and statement given with a usb containing a vid today. Agreed the usb piece is a bit odd but overall it was relatively painless and the Gardaí involved were sound. Once the behavior is there it’s more likely that a less wasteful process could be implemented in future.

It's really great to hear that but from reading here and elsewhere it seems to depend very much on what garda you meet on the day as to whether you'll get a sympathetic hearing or not

Ray Bloody Purchase

Cyclists and Motorcyclists are advised;

Motorcyclists / Cyclists should not compromise their safety by their ‘need’ to travel in icy/snow conditions. Cancel your journey or take alternative transport.

Visibility is reduced in snowy conditions so cyclists should wear a Sam Browne Bandoleer belt or high visibility vest and ensure the lights on your bike are working correctly.
.
Remember other road users may not ‘expect’ you and could therefore comprise your safety

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/winter-ready-how-to-stay-safe-when-temperatures-plummet-37765460.html

Other road users may not 'expect' you??? WTF. At the very least, one would imagine road users would 'expect' other road users????

Chips Lovell

Sigh. Sounds like it was written by the RSA.

....Oh wait, quelle surprise, it was written by them!

mr spuckler

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/winter-ready-how-to-stay-safe-when-temperatures-plummet-37765460.html

Other road users may not 'expect' you??? WTF. At the very least, one would imagine road users would 'expect' other road users????

so at no point does it advise motorists to ensure their windows are fully clear of snow / frost to ensure maximum field of vision, not does it tell them to be extra vigilant for VRUs...

magicbastarder

'motorists: show respect to cyclists in these weather conditions, cos if they're out in this sort of weather, they're well 'ard and will take no ****e from you'

Macy0161

mr spuckler wrote: »

so at no point does it advise motorists to ensure their windows are fully clear of snow / frost to ensure maximum field of vision, not does it tell them to be extra vigilant for VRUs...

Especially make sure the roof is clear so it doesn't slide down onto the windscreen.

Have any of these articles ever pointed out that drivers should be driving at a speed they can safely stop in the distance they can see. Kinda deals with the "may not be expecting you" aspect quite well!

ED E

Watch the icing.

https://twitter.com/CitizenW0lf/status/1090387691731120128

randomname2005

ED E wrote: »

Watch the icing.

https://twitter.com/CitizenW0lf/status/1090387691731120128

They do well to hold that. It almost looks like they are about to start signaling, and have one hand off the bars when they start to slide. Fair play.

Duckjob

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-driver-recording-abusing-cyclists-didnt-realise-cops/?fbclid=IwAR24F7T9XHt7UqsRDrowBWoYa8Z3n72xEBWkkc3Ws2PlWxpXbimwkJI_vL0


The news discussion left me gobsmacked as they spent it debating whether or not the cyclists should be allowed to use the road, instead of talking about which planet the drivers driving licence should be posted to.

I guess I shouldn't be so shocked is its from Aus, but then again, I think that sort of nonsense discourse is kindof where we're headed now unless something is done to reverse the current toxic culture.

ED E

randomname2005 wrote: »

It almost looks like they are about to start signaling

Yeah, hand was just off. Nasty right turn to get off the Eastlink too.

Duffryman

ED E wrote: »

Watch the icing.

https://twitter.com/CitizenW0lf/status/1090387691731120128

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, and throw out two questions for discussion:

1 – Does this not actually go to show there’s some merit in that advice that was being criticised earlier on today (that cyclists should re-think whether or not to go cycling at all in icy conditions)? A bike with two narrow tyres is more susceptible to skids than another vehicle with four or more wider tyres.

2 – Anybody else wondering about the right turn the person with the camera takes at the end of the clip? Crosses a continuous white line to do so. Looks like turning right at a place where no right turns allowed?

ED E

1. No. https://twitter.com/IBikeOulu/status/1088414976988102656

2. DCC built a ramp into York Road to facilitate such a move. The cyclist is getting away from lines of HGVs. If any Garda would like to question that they'll get a lovely dressing down from a judge.

Duffryman

Okay, so the right turn that I wondered about seems to be fine. I'm a culchie myself, not particularly familiar with the more 'intimate' details of Dublin roads and junctions, and certainly didn't know about that one.

But I'm not sure a short video clip from some guy in Finland properly addresses the first question.....

ozt9vdujny3srf

ED E wrote: »

1. No. https://twitter.com/IBikeOulu/status/1088414976988102656.

Probably using snow/ice suitable tires. Have fallen off my bike on ice a couple of times. Comes out of nowhere. No harm in advising people to be careful, although obviously the stuff about motorist "not expecting" you is BS

CramCycle

Duckjob wrote: »

I guess I shouldn't be so shocked is its from Aus, but then again, I think that sort of nonsense discourse is kindof where we're headed now unless something is done to reverse the current toxic culture.

Holy sh1t, how did it take them that long to mention he is on the cycle track. They make Newstalk look fair and reasonable.

Idleater

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

Other road users may not 'expect' you??? WTF. At the very least, one would imagine road users would 'expect' other road users????

It's true, last year in the snow I cycled the MTB into work and passed numerous vehicles stuck at the bottom and halfway up the hill. However, the council workers at the top with their tractor were definitely *not* expecting anyone up there, as they informed me as I passed :-)

ED E

Memphis Immense Armband wrote: »

Probably using snow/ice suitable tires.

Many do, more don't. 28/30mm utility tyres on banger bikes are common up there.

CramCycle

Idleater wrote: »

It's true, last year in the snow I cycled the MTB into work and passed numerous vehicles stuck at the bottom and halfway up the hill. However, the council workers at the top with their tractor were definitely *not* expecting anyone up there, as they informed me as I passed :-)

Like the guy last year who told me I was mental for being out on the bike, after I had helped push a stuck car (and that wasn't the only one), and right before he snotted himself.

monument

Duffryman wrote: »

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here, and throw out two questions for discussion:

1 – Does this not actually go to show there’s some merit in that advice that was being criticised earlier on today (that cyclists should re-think whether or not to go cycling at all in icy conditions)? A bike with two narrow tyres is more susceptible to skids than another vehicle with four or more wider tyres.

2 – Anybody else wondering about the right turn the person with the camera takes at the end of the clip? Crosses a continuous white line to do so. Looks like turning right at a place where no right turns allowed?

Remembering you Cycle Bus posts and then looking back on your previous posts, you sure do a lot of devil’s advocacy.

tomasrojo

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/winter-ready-how-to-stay-safe-when-temperatures-plummet-37765460.html

Other road users may not 'expect' you??? WTF. At the very least, one would imagine road users would 'expect' other road users????

"Need" in inverted commas.

They're so weird.

Duffryman

monument wrote: »

Remembering you Cycle Bus posts and then looking back on your previous posts, you sure do a lot of devil’s advocacy.

Well...are they not valid questions? Do you not like it when somebody expresses an opinion or puts forward a suggestion for discussion that doesn't tie in nicely with your own views or that might challenge a comfy status quo? Why do you feel the need to look back on somebody's previous posts, instead of taking each point raised at face value?

Basically, can you not at least even consider a different point of view, even if you don't agree with it? Certainly looks that way if you're having a go at me for just throwing a couple of observations/questions/suggestions out there.....

PS - have just noticed you're a moderator here. I'd have thought you therefore might have encouraged some healthy debate or discussion, nstead of trying to stifle it. But there you go....

AndrewJRenko

Idleater wrote: »

It's true, last year in the snow I cycled the MTB into work and passed numerous vehicles stuck at the bottom and halfway up the hill. However, the council workers at the top with their tractor were definitely *not* expecting anyone up there, as they informed me as I passed :-)

In the big snows of 2012 and 2013, I found I was much safer on the MTB with big chunky tyres going through the largely-cleared slushy roads, rather than walking on the paths with the impacted snow and ice.

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

Sigh. Sounds like it was written by the RSA.

....Oh wait, quelle surprise, it was written by them!

Interesting to see the contrast in the latest RSA Expert article

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/golden-rules-of-lighting-up-your-car-so-you-see-and-are-seen-37736754.html


compared to their previous anti-cycling rants. In the previous 'swarming like bees' article, they noted that when it comes to breaking the law, there is no grey area. However, when it comes to motorists breaking the law by driving with no lights: "no one is doing this intentionally. It's an honest mistake"


It's hard to see this as anything other than blatant bias.

Jesus wept , they feel the need to explain how DLRs work to people? People know how they work just fine, it's just their inattention and fecklessness thats the problem.

Last few days alone I'd say I flashed 5 or 6 cars because they were running on DLRs or no lights at all.

CramCycle

Duffryman wrote: »

Well...are they not valid questions? Do you not like it when somebody expresses an opinion or puts forward a suggestion for discussion that doesn't tie in nicely with your own views or that might challenge a comfy status quo? Why do you feel the need to look back on somebody's previous posts, instead of taking each point raised at face value?

Basically, can you not at least even consider a different point of view, even if you don't agree with it? Certainly looks that way if you're having a go at me for just throwing a couple of observations/questions/suggestions out there.....

Of course, and I can actually understand why the thought is there but I haven't found it to be true at all. In 2010, on a road bike, I put zip ties round my tyres and left work at about 3am during the big snow. I had taped a shovel to my cross bar as I planned to dig out my partners driveway on the way home. It is normally a 30 minute cycle, with the bad weather I expected about an hour. It took 6 hours, but not because I was in danger or cycling was dangerous, in fact the only dangerous cyclist was on the footpath. The reason it took me so long was I dug out several cars who had skidded into snow, stuck in driveways, I helped two girls get to their grannys funeral, I helped a Garda (on foot) get several cars out of side roads, dug out a person going to New Zealand to leave Ireland behind. I took my time and was prepared. It won't stop everything and won't prevent everything either but every issue on the road came from one of two things, lack of preparation or lack of patience.
My point is that if you cannot travel safely, or incapable of checking whether safe travel is likely, then either walk or stay at home, or contact someone else (single occupancy vehicles find it harder to push themselves out of trouble areas IMO). I watched the news today to see a load of people standing by the side of a road in cork giving out no one had come to help them yet after crashing. The worst bit was several of them had clearly only travelled a small distance from their house and were surprised the road was not usable, whereas I was surprised none of them had just walked out and checked.
Driving for work this morning and the number of cars with frozen windows and snow flying off the roof and into their field of view. Although interestingly, the best average driving I have seen for along time in general.

PS - have just noticed you're a moderator here. I'd have thought you therefore might have encouraged some healthy debate or discussion, nstead of trying to stifle it. But there you go....

PS, unless their posts are in bold, they are just regular posters. No different than you, I or anyone else here.