Journalism and cycling

mr spuckler

Pinch Flat wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-wanted-to-be-able-to-jump-out-of-the-car-and-go-to-the-nurses-michael-healy-rae-defends-driving-in-bus-lane-37784658.html

Any boardies got him on their cams? :pac:

trying to find a place to pull in while still several miles from the Coombe! I presume he ended up parking in the hospital car-park and will charge the parking fee back as expenses :pac:

amcalester

Pinch Flat wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-wanted-to-be-able-to-jump-out-of-the-car-and-go-to-the-nurses-michael-healy-rae-defends-driving-in-bus-lane-37784658.html

Any boardies got him on their cams? :pac:

He said he was looking for somewhere to stop so he could support the nurses at yhe Coombe helluva walk from Woodies on the Naas Rd to Crumlin hospital.

He’s hardly lying, is he?

Tombo2001

To put plainly, part of his message is "if the laws don't suit you, sure just ignore them".

magicbastarder

Hurrache wrote: »

The Gardai backed down on their data protection excuses when providing a statement to RTE.

They're now citing that they believe there's an inheritant danger in posting videos to social media.

There is nothing in data protection legislation to stop cyclists posting videos and photos of illegal parking and other infringements, the Data Protection Commissioner Helen Dixon has said.

However, she has warned in an interview on RTE Radio 1 that anyone posting images on social media that identify other people should be careful.

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/data-protection-commissioner-garda-cyclists-videos/

Tombo2001

There's two things here

The garda, and the person running the garda twitter.

Strikes me that the latter is a bit of a loose cannon, given the organisation they represent.

Lambay island

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/scheme-that-cuts-penalties-for-bad-driving-set-to-expand-37783179.html

Translation
Government : "Everyone is allowed away with one murder once their chosen weapon is a car but we will spin it differently"

Tombo2001

Lambay island wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/scheme-that-cuts-penalties-for-bad-driving-set-to-expand-37783179.html

Translation
Government : "Everyone is allowed away with one murder once their chosen weapon is a car but we will spin it differently"

Not quite clear what it means, and to be fair - people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

There is a difference between bad driving and dangerous driving.

I have sympathy for someone who loses their licence because they were driving at 70 in a 60k zone.

Less so for someone who jumps in the car after a feed of pints.

Cyclists break the rules all the time, if we were to lose cycling rights because we broke a red light.....we wouldn't be happy.

On the other hand, it would stop us doing it......but to back to the original point - people in glasshouses etc.

AndrewJRenko

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Lambay island wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/scheme-that-cuts-penalties-for-bad-driving-set-to-expand-37783179.html

Translation
Government : "Everyone is allowed away with one murder once their chosen weapon is a car but we will spin it differently"

I have sympathy for someone who loses their licence because they were driving at 70 in a 60k zone.

Has this ever happened?

Tombo2001

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Has this ever happened?

Its three penalty points; 4 strikes and you cant drive for how long? 12 months?

It could happen that a small amount of minor infringements puts you off the road.

To put it differently - the penalty should reflect the infringement.

Going back to the article linked above - the current system punishes minor infringements quite severely and punishes major infringements quite leniently.

However - one difference being that you are highly unlikely to be caught for a minor infringement, while you are quite likely to be caught for a major infringement.

So on a risk weighted basis it probably averages out.

magicbastarder

if you get caught four times - given the level of enforcement of the road traffic laws - you really, really must be doing it a hell of a lot. i personally wouldn't have any issue with someone being put off the road in those circumstances.

Lambay island

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Not quite clear what it means, and to be fair - people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones.

There is a difference between bad driving and dangerous driving.

I have sympathy for someone who loses their licence because they were driving at 70 in a 60k zone.

Less so for someone who jumps in the car after a feed of pints.

Cyclists break the rules all the time, if we were to lose cycling rights because we broke a red light.....we wouldn't be happy.

On the other hand, it would stop us doing it......but to back to the original point - people in glasshouses etc.

I was been a bit tongue in cheek in fairness but i was referring to dangerous driving. I'm not a fan of people on bikes breaking red lights unless for genuine safety reasons or sensor issues.
I'm not saying you are directly saying this but you can't equate a cyclist rolling through a ped light with no one crossing for instance to someone crashing their car into a person due to whatever reason. The "people in glass houses phrase" doesn't fit the situation as you have far more responsibility to others when you are driving compared to cycling

Tombo2001

Lambay island wrote: »

I was been a bit tongue in cheek in fairness but i was referring to dangerous driving. I'm not a fan of people on bikes breaking red lights unless for genuine safety reasons or sensor issues.
I'm not saying you are directly saying this but you can't equate a cyclist rolling through a ped light with no one crossing for instance to someone crashing their car into a person due to whatever reason. The "people in glass houses phrase" doesn't fit the situation as you have far more responsibility to others when you are driving compared to cycling

I'll put it different.

Myself and a number of people I know have been done for penalty points at the same place - which is Conyngham Road, coming in, a long straight four lane road that is not residential, but is a 50k zone. Other similar roads are 60k around the city. Driving along there at 50k feels like crawling. Its a speed trap, literally, because it has the look and feel of a road with a higher speed limit.

Ditto those stretches of dual carriageway out of Dublin that are 80k limits.

Frequently, this is where speed camera set up as they are private operators (afaik) that are revenue driven. Dangerous driving isn't the issue, the issue is where will they get the highest volume of cars breaking the limit.

Over a three year time horizon, its certainly not that hard to rack up the points, if your commute is along this type of route.


On the other hand, you could be lashing along Dorset St or Camden St as fast you like - which would be dangerous driving - no way will you meet a speed camera there.

mr spuckler

Lambay island wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/scheme-that-cuts-penalties-for-bad-driving-set-to-expand-37783179.html

Translation
Government : "Everyone is allowed away with one murder once their chosen weapon is a car but we will spin it differently"

I think it might be something like this that was used as an out for the lady accused of careless driving that I was a witness against. her barrister referenced it as restorative justice (and I mentioned it here recently) but in reality it was some sort of educational program. she had her careless driving charge provisionally struck out as a result.
I really hope there's proper follow-ups in the courts before formal strike-out though - the completion rates are shockingly low for something that gives those drivers a de-facto free pass.

amcalester

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I'll put it different.

Myself and a number of people I know have been done for penalty points at the same place - which is Conyngham Road, coming in, a long straight four lane road that is not residential, but is a 50k zone. Other similar roads are 60k around the city. Driving along there at 50k feels like crawling. Its a speed trap, literally, because it has the look and feel of a road with a higher speed limit.

Ditto those stretches of dual carriageway out of Dublin that are 80k limits.

Frequently, this is where speed camera set up as they are private operators (afaik) that are revenue driven. Dangerous driving isn't the issue, the issue is where will they get the highest volume of cars breaking the limit.

Over a three year time horizon, its certainly not that hard to rack up the points, if your commute is along this type of route.


On the other hand, you could be lashing along Dorset St or Camden St as fast you like - no way will you meet a speed camera there.

Ha, I was caught on Conyngham Road doing 61. I genuinely thought it was a 60 zone so I was annoyed until I drove it again and noticed the signs that I'd missed/ignored the first time. No complaints and it made me more aware of looking out for speed signs, so for someone to get caught another 3 times in 3 years after that, I wouldn't have much sympathy.

And FWIW, the private speed vans are not revenue targeted, they have to be set up for a set amount of time but there's no KPI/target for revenue generation in their contracts.

Eamonnator

magicbastarder wrote: »

if you get caught four times - given the level of enforcement of the road traffic laws - you really, really must be doing it a hell of a lot. i personally wouldn't have any issue with someone being put off the road in those circumstances.

I knew a taxi driver in Drogheda, who was caught for speeding four times on the same day. It was the first day penalty points were introduced. Gardai were out in force to make an impact.

Hurrache

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Frequently, this is where speed camera set up as they are private operators (afaik) that are revenue driven.

They aren't.

Tombo2001

amcalester wrote: »

Ha, I was caught on Conyngham Road doing 61. I genuinely thought it was a 60 zone so I was annoyed until I drove it again and noticed the signs that I'd missed/ignored the first time. No complaints and it made me more aware of looking out for speed signs, so for someone to get caught another 3 times in 3 years after that, I wouldn't have much sympathy.

And FWIW, the private speed vans are not revenue targeted, they have to be set up for a set amount of time but there's no KPI/target for revenue generation in their contracts.[/QUOTE]

Why are they always in the same spots?

I have commuted through Alfie Byrne road and Drumcondra Road for several years.

The speeds you see cars do can be quite staggering but I cant once, ever remember a speed trap in place there. Conversely, they are on Conyngham Road the whole time.

Ray Bloody Purchase

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Why are they always in the same spots?

.

I heard (anecdotally) that often they are situated where there has previously been a fatal crash. This does ring true as they are constantly on a quiet stretch of road down home in Galway where three people were killed in a two vehicle collision.

The frequency of use of the road and indeed the layout has changed subsequently due to the new Galway-Dublin motorway, yet the speedvan remains in the same spot.

amcalester

Ray Bloody Purchase wrote: »

I heard (anecdotally) that often they are situated where there has previously been a fatal crash. This does ring true as they are constantly on a quiet stretch of road down home in Galway where three people were killed in a two vehicle collision.

The frequency of use of the road and indeed the layout has changed subsequently due to the new Galway-Dublin motorway, yet the speedvan remains in the same spot.

Yeah, I've heard it said on the radio that the private speed vans are placed on roads that have had serious or fatal collisions on them and can only be set up between the Speed Camera signs that are displayed on the road.

Garda speed checks can be set up anywhere, but the private ones are literally signposted.

CramCycle

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Myself and a number of people I know have been done for penalty points at the same place - which is Conyngham Road, coming in, a long straight four lane road that is not residential, but is a 50k zone. Other similar roads are 60k around the city. Driving along there at 50k feels like crawling. Its a speed trap, literally, because it has the look and feel of a road with a higher speed limit.

But if your paying attention, the signs say 50kmph, and presumably after the first fine, you learn your lesson?

Ditto those stretches of dual carriageway out of Dublin that are 80k limits.

80kmph is quite fast, it may not feel it but it is a decent clip, and in many places due to residential roads and houses nearby, far too high.

Frequently, this is where speed camera set up as they are private operators (afaik) that are revenue driven. Dangerous driving isn't the issue, the issue is where will they get the highest volume of cars breaking the limit.

The Gardai or the GoSafe crowd make no more money out of it if they catch 1 or 100 per day, in fact the scheme has been run at a loss since inception AFAIK Typical politicians pulled the Garda Commisioner in front of a review panel to give out to her, and when she said its cause we were safer than expected, they gave out to her. Regretably none of them had the guts to point out the obvious that they are so predictable on certain stretches, a driver knows where and for how llong to drive under the limit to avoid detection.

Over a three year time horizon, its certainly not that hard to rack up the points, if your commute is along this type of route.

This is the problem and the reason why you get a few goes of it. If you get caught 4 times in a period of 3 years, you deserve to be put off the road as your paying such little attention and learning so little that it is clear and evident that no amount of education will fix you.

On the other hand, you could be lashing along Dorset St or Camden St as fast you like - which would be dangerous driving - no way will you meet a speed camera there.

But it is far rarer to have the opportunity to do so, although Id be infavour of average speed cameras across the city to help catch this out.

Eamonnator wrote: »

I knew a taxi driver in Drogheda, who was caught for speeding four times on the same day. It was the first day penalty points were introduced. Gardai were out in force to make an impact.

Two issues here, first, it was the first day of enforcement in a heavily publicised event, the fact that a professional driver couldn't see the risk or continued regardless says more about the fact that he should not be driving at all than anything else. Secondly, point one again, FFS, while risk of being captured is minimal now , back then it was guaranteed that if you were on the roads for more than 50km, you would see a speed check or similar. People like this should have their license revoked for a minimum of 5 years with a higher standard of driving test applied on reapplication. A friend got done twice on the first day, either side of the same village, both marginally over the limit. Well deserved, it reminded me of the Gardai who used to give you a warning but then follow you a few minutes later to see had you listened, if you were being mannerly, they gave you a wave, if you were breaking the same rules again, it was a day in court for your stupidity. It sounds terrible but I am beginning to think that the only way to rid the roads of stupidity is to punish people repeatedly until they either can no longer do it or they learn their lesson.

amcalester

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Why are they always in the same spots?

I have commuted through Alfie Byrne road and Drumcondra Road for several years.

The speeds you see cars do can be quite staggering but I cant once, ever remember a speed trap in place there. Conversely, they are on Conyngham Road the whole time.

No idea, could be issues with finding a suitable spot on Drumcondra Road and the same for other roads that are more obviously dangerous.

No point cause an incident when trying to prevent them.

Budawanny

amcalester wrote: »

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No idea, could be issues with finding a suitable spot on Drumcondra Road and the same for other roads that are more obviously dangerous.

No point cause an incident when trying to prevent them.

The Gardaí define the zones that the go safe vans are monitoring, based on
collision data from pulse. The zones that are monitored are clearly marked with Signs, and are available on line here. http://https://www.garda.ie/images_upload/en/Traffic/Safety-camera-locations/Safety-Cameras-map.JPG

However as I have witnessed driving to Mayo , the absence of go safe vans is not the absence of detection. There are traffic core, there are unmarked garda cars. although admittedly the chances of detection in Dublin appear to be very very low.

Macy0161

amcalester wrote: »

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No idea, could be issues with finding a suitable spot on Drumcondra Road and the same for other roads that are more obviously dangerous.

They could always block the footpath and cycle lane, like the gardai speed van has been known to do in the past on the N11 around Foxrock...

My local one is in a stupid spot, based off a single incident. However, it's pretty much just a test of local knowledge rather than a speed trap. Even the days of the week it's there is pretty consistent.

The ideal would be average speed camera's on the main two or three routes in and out of the village(s). The bit with the (routinely ignored by motorist) zebra crossing and other crossing points, often narrowed with illegally parked vehicles, are where I routinely witness speeding with even more risk to VRU's than where it is placed.

Tombo2001

CramCycle wrote: »

But if your paying attention, the signs say 50kmph, and presumably after the first fine, you learn your lesson?

80kmph is quite fast, it may not feel it but it is a decent clip, and in many places due to residential roads and houses nearby, far too high.

The Gardai or the GoSafe crowd make no more money out of it if they catch 1 or 100 per day, in fact the scheme has been run at a loss since inception AFAIK Typical politicians pulled the Garda Commisioner in front of a review panel to give out to her, and when she said its cause we were safer than expected, they gave out to her. Regretably none of them had the guts to point out the obvious that they are so predictable on certain stretches, a driver knows where and for how llong to drive under the limit to avoid detection.

This is the problem and the reason why you get a few goes of it. If you get caught 4 times in a period of 3 years, you deserve to be put off the road as your paying such little attention and learning so little that it is clear and evident that no amount of education will fix you.
But it is far rarer to have the opportunity to do so, although Id be infavour of average speed cameras across the city to help catch this out.


Two issues here, first, it was the first day of enforcement in a heavily publicised event, the fact that a professional driver couldn't see the risk or continued regardless says more about the fact that he should not be driving at all than anything else. Secondly, point one again, FFS, while risk of being captured is minimal now , back then it was guaranteed that if you were on the roads for more than 50km, you would see a speed check or similar. People like this should have their license revoked for a minimum of 5 years with a higher standard of driving test applied on reapplication. A friend got done twice on the first day, either side of the same village, both marginally over the limit. Well deserved, it reminded me of the Gardai who used to give you a warning but then follow you a few minutes later to see had you listened, if you were being mannerly, they gave you a wave, if you were breaking the same rules again, it was a day in court for your stupidity. It sounds terrible but I am beginning to think that the only way to rid the roads of stupidity is to punish people repeatedly until they either can no longer do it or they learn their lesson.

Two points - again I know its not an excuse etc etc......I do feel there aren't enough speed limit signs on Irish roads; many's the time I am driving along and it occurs to me that I'm not sure what the speed limit is on a given road, and you can be waiting a long time for a sign that tells you......just sayin'...

As for the other point - 80k of course is fast, so is 60k and 50k and so is 40k......however, relatively speaking, I think its fair to say there are inconsistencies regarding speed limits on Irish roads............

randomname2005

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Two points - again I know its not an excuse etc etc......I do feel there aren't enough speed limit signs on Irish roads; many's the time I am driving along and it occurs to me that I'm not sure what the speed limit is on a given road, and you can be waiting a long time for a sign that tells you......just sayin'...

Agree, needs to be more on certain stretches, especially when overgrown hedges obscure some of them, and the national sport of sign turning is strong in a region.

Kop Idol

Maybe we are making some headway ? The Indo actually posts an article giving a cyclist's point of view :eek:

Very attention grabbing title.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/stick-to-the-left-you-stupid-bh-the-realities-of-cycling-in-dublin-37785319.html

magicbastarder

i think that was sent in to dublin cycling campaign as a reaction to 'that' article by the RSA.
obviously it's gained legs.

What Username Guidelines

Kop Idol wrote: »

Maybe we are making some headway ? The Indo actually posts an article giving a cyclist's point of view :eek:

Very attention grabbing title.

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/stick-to-the-left-you-stupid-bh-the-realities-of-cycling-in-dublin-37785319.html

Gotta love the usual comments on the article on Facebook. But this absolute beauty:

I remember coming up a narrow road, having to pass a cyclist. A few cars were coming towards me in the opposite direction and I was squeezed in to the hedge with a cyclist at my passenger side rear. Every time I tried to slow down the cyclist got more stuck. Nightmare. He banged the car with his fist.

magicbastarder

spotted on twitter (posted by ciaran ferrie); a podcast about the AA and RTE.

https://blog.hereshow.ie/2019/02/heres-how-82-rte-and-the-aa/

it's 55 minutes long.

Pinch Flat

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Gotta love the usual comments on the article on Facebook. But this absolute beauty:

You’d wonder is that written in earnest or is she genuinely thick.