Journalism and cycling

Pinch Flat

Noticed that in all media outlets. Read the road safety Facebook page and read the comments from the the absolute morons who post on there. Telling the rsa they’ve failed, blaming poor roads, condoning a few drinks or speed testing as a tax source. I can’t put my finger on it, but as a nation we struggle with taking personal responsibility. Someone or something else is always to blame.

CramCycle

To be fair we do that here, but that is for two reasons, 1) we are a small country and often it's quite likely family and friends are reading, in some cases they may not even know yet. 2) from a legal perspective we don't allow discussion assigning blame until it has been reported or ruled upon. its unfair on every party involved, from a legal and moral perspective. We of course don't carry that through too months later when theses issues or possible issues have been resolved.

Miklos

Rechuchote wrote: »

Fluffy little piece.

Fluffy little journalist.

magicbastarder

he's one of the best things about the irish times these days. consistently funny.

BikeRacer

CramCycle wrote: »

2) from a legal perspective we don't allow discussion assigning blame until it has been reported or ruled upon.

Just curious, but Boards and TheJournal have the same owner, so how do they get away with it? I'd have thought with some of the comments left there, they'd have got a lawsuit long before now.

CramCycle

BikeRacer wrote: »

Just curious, but Boards and TheJournal have the same owner, so how do they get away with it? I'd have thought with some of the comments left there, they'd have got a lawsuit long before now.

Honestly, not a clue, I don't touch the journal and haven't for years.

BikeRacer

BikeRacer wrote: »

Just curious, but Boards and TheJournal have the same owner, so how do they get away with it? I'd have thought with some of the comments left there, they'd have got a lawsuit long before now.

Essentially the clicks the comments section of the journal and our eternal obsession owning a property ie Daft.ie with keep boards running these days.

JMcL

rubadub wrote: »

I recently found out another friend missed out due to the height requirement, now scrapped, and I never considered him short, he barely missed it by a half inch. I think you are taller straight out of bed and he might have passed if he copped it.

A lad I knew through one of my mates in college was rejected by AGS on height grounds in the late 80s. He joined the police over in the UK, and after a few years transferred back as they apparently had a waiver on the height issue if you were experienced.

Pinch Flat

Joe Public is already outraged. "But what about de cyclists?"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/cameras-to-be-installed-at-three-blackspots-to-catch-red-light-runners-1.3852548?fbclid=IwAR3aonxfws6NzZj5xvCyD7XSFTbcngdQOyesusnuyZnIY1HK6c3hH8hRprg

Duckjob

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Joe Public is already outraged. "But what about de cyclists?"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/cameras-to-be-installed-at-three-blackspots-to-catch-red-light-runners-1.3852548?fbclid=IwAR3aonxfws6NzZj5xvCyD7XSFTbcngdQOyesusnuyZnIY1HK6c3hH8hRprg

They should already be on every major junction in the city.

Crazy in our technology age, that we don't have a completely automated system where the letter, fine, points etc all happens automatically without needing any garda resources.

The sense of entitlement of people to do whatever the hell they want in their cars is off the scale at this stage. Needs to be a severe crackdown. Examples need to be made. People need to be put off the road if necessary.

Pinch Flat

Duckjob wrote: »

The sense of entitlement of people to do whatever the hell they want in their cars is off the scale at this stage. Needs to be a severe crackdown. Examples need to be made. People need to be put off the road if necessary.

Seems to be a mass case of confirmation bias when it comes to motorists.

Duffryman

A thing I find curious in that story is how it says the traffic lights cameras detected 1,300 offences in 18 months. That’s an average of 72 per month, or just a little over two a day…..so is it that the cameras aren’t actually very effective at detecting offences at all, or is it that the problem is nowhere near as bad as is sometimes made out? Anybody know if this has been addressed anywhere?

amcalester

Duffryman wrote: »

A thing I find curious in that story is how it says the traffic lights cameras detected 1,300 offences in 18 months. That’s an average of 72 per month, or just a little over two a day…..so is it that the cameras aren’t actually very effective at detecting offences at all, or is it that the problem is nowhere near as bad as is sometimes made out? Anybody know if this has been addressed anywhere?

No idea, but I thought the exact same thing.

If you spent 10 minutes at any traffic light in Dublin you'd detect more than 2 offences, so something doesn't add up.

Fian

Duffryman wrote: »

A thing I find curious in that story is how it says the traffic lights cameras detected 1,300 offences in 18 months. That’s an average of 72 per month, or just a little over two a day…..so is it that the cameras aren’t actually very effective at detecting offences at all, or is it that the problem is nowhere near as bad as is sometimes made out? Anybody know if this has been addressed anywhere?

I think this must be an error, perhaps the journalist conflated the fact that the trial took place over 18 months ago with the idea that the trial persisted over a period of 18 months. No way in hell could it be only 1300 over the course of 18 months.

500 were not prosecuted because they were cyclists, or because the reg was not discernable. Which suggests that they were able to capture almost 2/3rds of those who broke the lights. It also establishes that more cars than cyclists broke the lights incidentally, because of the 1300 less than 500 were cyclists, not clear how much less than 500.

rubadub

Fian wrote: »

No way in hell could it be only 1300 over the course of 18 months.

When I heard it today I thought it was 1300 per day, and thought that sounded about right from what I see on the worst junction I come across.

Looking online it seems 1300 were fined.

https://irishcycle.com/2018/10/12/disclosure-tribunal-highlights-motorists-running-red-lights-misusing-cycle-lanes/

The red light camera at Blackhall Place (pictured above) was used to fine 1,300 motorists before it was shut off due to lack of agreements in place between the agencies involved.

Duffryman

Fian wrote: »

I think this must be an error, perhaps the journalist conflated the fact that the trial took place over 18 months ago with the idea that the trial persisted over a period of 18 months. No way in hell could it be only 1300 over the course of 18 months.

500 were not prosecuted because they were cyclists, or because the reg was not discernable. Which suggests that they were able to capture almost 2/3rds of those who broke the lights. It also establishes that more cars than cyclists broke the lights incidentally, because of the 1300 less than 500 were cyclists, not clear how much less than 500.

It was 1,300 over 18 months all right, as that's what's reported everywhere else, all based on an answer the Minister for Justice gave in the Dáil:

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2019-02-14a.275&s=detections+section%3Awrans#g277.r

I am informed by An Garda Síochána that during the period the pilot was in operation, there were 1,300 detections. 737 of these detections were accepted and processed for prosecution, while 563 were rejected. Cyclists accounted for 73% of all rejections. Detections may also be rejected due to obscured/obstructed camera images, or in cases where the vehicle registration is not visible. 624 Fixed Charge Notices (FCNs) were issued, of which 440 FCN amounts were paid (71%).

As regards cyclists: he says of the 563 rejected, cyclists accounted for 73% of them. That makes 411.

Overall then, an average of less than one offence per day by cyclists, and less than 1.5 per day by motorists.

Other things I also find curious:

1) If 737 were processed for prosecution, but only 624 Fixed Charge Notices were issued. By what means where the others processed?

2) 29% of people who got a Fixed Charge Notice didn't bother paying it. That seems shockingly high to me. Wonder if it's roughly the same rate across the board with other FCNs (e.g. speeding fines), and how many of those unpaid ones were followed up in court?

rubadub

Important bit in that ^^ link

I am advised by the Courts Service that its data is not recorded in such a way that allows for the compilation of statistics relating to this pilot.

I hear they tried to input the amount of pedestrians breaking the red but the number was too big to store on the 2TB hard drive.

They would have been better off doing proper figures for a week, doing 18months would be like counting grains of sand on a beach.

blackwhite

Duffryman wrote: »

It was 1,300 over 18 months all right, as that's what's reported everywhere else, all based on an answer the Minister for Justice gave in the Dáil:

https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2019-02-14a.275&s=detections+section%3Awrans#g277.r



As regards cyclists: he says of the 563 rejected, cyclists accounted for 73% of them. That makes 411.

Overall then, an average of less than one offence per day by cyclists, and less than 1.5 per day by motorists.

Other things I also find curious:

1) If 737 were processed for prosecution, but only 624 Fixed Charge Notices were issued. By what means where the others processed?

2) 29% of people who got a Fixed Charge Notice didn't bother paying it. That seems shockingly high to me. Wonder if it's roughly the same rate across the board with other FCNs (e.g. speeding fines), and how many of those unpaid ones were followed up in court?

I know of at least 1 that went straight to court - due to causing emergency breaking from a Luas. Not sure was it driving without due care, or dangerous driving charge

Duckjob

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Seems to be a mass case of confirmation bias when it comes to motorists.

"Ahhh, suuuure aren't they always lookin' for a new way to screw us over Joe ?"

Bunch of spoilt children those people. Really get on my t*ts.

Pinch Flat

Duckjob wrote: »

"Ahhh, suuuure aren't they always lookin' for a new way to screw us over Joe ?"

Bunch of spoilt children those people. Really get on my t*ts.

Probably the same clowns who beep someone from behind who dares stop on an Amber

downtheroad

Pat Kenny on his show this morning complaining about cyclists breaking red lights and won't acknowledge responses by Councillor Ciaran Cuffe that red light cameras at Blackhall Place proved cars broke the red lights there in greater numbers.

meeeeh

downtheroad wrote: »

Pat Kenny on his show this morning complaining about cyclists breaking red lights and won't acknowledge responses by Councillor Ciaran Cuffe that red light cameras at Blackhall Place proved cars broke the red lights there in greater numbers.

I just heard that. Is that an absolute or relative number?

check_six

downtheroad wrote: »

Pat Kenny on his show this morning complaining about cyclists breaking red lights and won't acknowledge responses by Councillor Ciaran Cuffe that red light cameras at Blackhall Place proved cars broke the red lights there in greater numbers.

Spelled it out for him three times, but Kenny kept banging on about cyclists and red lights regardless.

downtheroad

check_six wrote: »

Spelled it out for him three times, but Kenny kept banging on about cyclists and red lights regardless.

I texted in saying that all road users, cyclists pedestrians and drivers break the lights but he won't acknowledge Councillor Cuffe's evidence. Obviously didn't get read out but Pat told Councillor Cuffe that very few people were texting in in support of cyclists. Seems to be he just chose to ignore any texts that weren't bashing cyclists.

Pinch Flat

The comments on social media regarding this article are overwhelmingly moaning about cyclists. You'd get more respect from a fellow motorist for accelerating to get through an amber / late red so he can follow you against breaking a red on a bike.

On a separate note, the comments regarding drink driving numbers (up on last year) are also depressing to read. People calling for the RSA to be disbanded or Shane Ross to step down.

The attitudes of some drivers out there are truly bizarre when it comes to road safety.

check_six wrote: »

Spelled it out for him three times, but Kenny kept banging on about cyclists and red lights regardless.

Kenny is overwhelmingly pro motorist and anti-cyclist. He shouldn't be allowed air his views on the airwaves, given his obvious bias.

Hurrache

Pinch Flat wrote: »

The attitudes of some drivers out there are truly bizarre when it comes to road safety.

As evident by some of the responses to this recent video in the Dashcam thread.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109885251&postcount=789

mr spuckler

Dublin cycle route ‘dead in the water’ after second defeat

meeeeh

Is any project not objected to in Dublin in last few years? It seems Dubliners want to live in misery of poor traffic management, bad public transport because of low population density and city center choker blocked with cars. If I remember correctly local councils voted against elected mayors a few years ago. When mayoral success is measured by how much beer is drank in City Hall Dublin will remain littered, polluted mess of a city because no one with a vision can actually do anything.

buffalo

meeeeh wrote: »

Is any project not objected to in Dublin in last few years? It seems Dubliners want to live in misery of poor traffic management, bad public transport because of low population density and city center choker blocked with cars. If I remember correctly local councils voted against elected mayors a few years ago. When mayoral success is measured by how much beer is drank in City Hall Dublin will remain littered, polluted mess of a city because no one with a vision can actually do anything.

You remember incorrectly - Fingal council effectively vetoed the proposal, the other councils supported at least progressing the idea.

Also, I'm not sure who's measuring success in amounts of beer, apart from maybe the current Lord Mayor himself.

meeeeh

buffalo wrote: »

You remember incorrectly - Fingal council effectively vetoed the proposal, the other councils supported at least progressing the idea.

Also, I'm not sure who's measuring success in amounts of beer, apart from maybe the current Lord Mayor himself.

And I bet he will be re-elected.

Yeah I knew it was only one or two councils but the result is the same. Public servants are there to run the projects but there is no initative for them to come up with a vision what city should be like and implement it. Nobody will for vote a project which will temporarily annoy people just before election but if you are electing a mayor for 4 or 5 years with a programme what should be achieved in the mandate then something might be done. There should be more to local government that arguing where to stick a Palestinian flag.