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Journalism and cycling

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    #662
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    In addition, I'm no fan of the poster-pocalypse that comes around at election time, but even I would stop short of naming the people who put the posters up 'ruthless scumbags'. I think I'd reserve that appellation for someone holding much less 'ruth' and much more 'scum' by general consensus.


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    #663
    snubbleste
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Possible cycling bashing on Joe Duffy later. We can but hope! :D

    https://twitter.com/Liveline_RTE/status/824180121754013698


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    #664
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Possible cycling bashing on Joe Duffy later. We can but hope! :D

    https://twitter.com/Liveline_RTE/status/824180121754013698

    In advance of this afternoons show:

    - they don't wear hi-vis or a helmet
    - they've no driving licences
    - they're not taxed / insured
    - they hold up traffic
    - they should be in single file
    - they cause danger on the roads
    - they've no NCT
    - they're a menace
    - they should have registration plates
    - they should not be on the roads
    - the should not be on the paths
    - they should be on the paths

    yada, yada.......



    Have I missed anything?


  • Options
    #665
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Possible cycling bashing on Joe Duffy later. We can but hope! :D

    https://twitter.com/Liveline_RTE/status/824180121754013698

    Are they just looking for people who have come a cropper on the new luas tracks? Hopefully they sympathise rather than blame them for falling off.


  • Options
    #666
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    check_six wrote: »
    I would stop short of naming the people who put the posters up 'ruthless scumbags'.
    what would you call them? I am not talking of people putting up legal posters in sensible places. Some will blame illegal placement on their employees, no excuse in my book. The ESB issued warnings many times, all over the media, yet they still put them up causing fire hazards, the "publicity before public safety" party were the worst for this in my area.

    What would you call the person/people who purposely designed a poster which is illegal due to the road traffic act, premeditated distraction of drivers mimicking road signs, people will end up not seeing the legit warnings.


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    #667
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    In advance of this afternoons show:

    - they don't wear hi-vis or a helmet
    - they've no driving licences
    - they're not taxed / insured
    - they hold up traffic
    - they should be in single file
    - they cause danger on the roads
    - they've no NCT
    - they're a menace
    - they should have registration plates
    - they should not be on the roads
    - the should not be on the paths
    - they should be on the paths

    yada, yada.......



    Have I missed anything?
    Its a bit risky playing drinking games at work but its been a long day so far....


  • Options
    #668
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    rubadub wrote: »
    what would you call them? I am not talking of people putting up legal posters in sensible places. Some will blame illegal placement on their employees, no excuse in my book. The ESB issued warnings many times, all over the media, yet they still put them up causing fire hazards, the "publicity before public safety" party were the worst for this in my area.

    What would you call the person/people who purposely designed a poster which is illegal due to the road traffic act, premeditated distraction of drivers mimicking road signs, people will end up not seeing the legit warnings.

    Well, what they're doing is not right, but I suppose somewhere between 'misguided and poorly judged' ranging out to 'deeply cynical' would cover it. I would gauge a 'ruthless scumbag' as someone along the lines of a gangland hitman, that kind of thing. Some dude with a stepladder and cable ties wouldn't fall into that category in my estimation. Perhaps you just have a different scale of descriptive language to me.


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    #669
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    check_six wrote: »
    Perhaps you just have a different scale of descriptive language to me.
    Yes, very much so, if you call deliberate calculated dangerous illegal activity to be "misguided".

    The "dude with the ladder" is usually not the one asking for the sign to be designed to look like a regulatory warning sign.

    Though these 2 scumbags probably had a say in it.

    7234436250_d2d94cdec3_b.jpg


  • Options
    #670
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    In advance of this afternoons show:

    - they don't wear hi-vis or a helmet
    - they've no driving licences
    - they're not taxed / insured
    - they hold up traffic
    - they should be in single file
    - they cause danger on the roads
    - they've no NCT
    - they're a menace
    - they should have registration plates
    - they should not be on the roads
    - the should not be on the paths
    - they should be on the paths

    yada, yada.......



    Have I missed anything?


    You forgot the lights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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    #671
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,050 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    rubadub wrote: »
    The ESB issued warnings many times, all over the media, yet they still put them up causing fire hazards, the "publicity before public safety" party were the worst for this in my area.
    Were there many poster fires in recent elections?

    Just FYI, the person who put up the poster originally is not necessarily the person responsible for the final position of the poster. There is a traditional game of jockeying for position on the pole and moving the other guy's stuff out of the way.
    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    Have I missed anything?
    Just one;
    - they don't kill people.


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    #672
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    rubadub wrote: »
    Sorry if I offended ............
    MOD VOICE: Please keep it civil and improve the tone of language used. Everyone


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    #673
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Were there many poster fires in recent elections?.
    I don't know. This is from 10 years ago

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/election-posters-could-be-deadly-esb-warns-26289419.html
    POLITICIANS could be putting people's lives in danger by placing election posters on electricity poles, the ESB warned last night.
    SHARE
    Only hours after the poster blitz got under way, an election poster blew on to the electricity network's wires causing a blaze in Dublin's Leixlip.
    "They could be putting lives in danger by doing this," the ESB's Kevin McDermott said.

    "We have warned politicians to refrain from placing posters on the wooden ESB poles or pylons."
    The ESB said the fire on Old Hill Road on Sunday night had resulted in the pole being burnt down, and service cut off to two houses overnight.

    In the last election, service bosses confirmed that in a single night there were three separate power cuts in Howth, north Dublin, due to fires caused by election placards going on fire. "There are safety issues with putting them up the poles, the electricity can jump," Mr McDermott said.
    A spokesman for Dublin Fire Brigade confirmed officers were called to put out five blazes after the full-colour posters were set or went on fire on the first night of the campaign.

    This article from last year speaks of a fire and how the new plastic posters are worse. It infers it could have been started by vandals, this is why councils have height restrictions.
    In the last election a new type of poster had been introduced and when it went on fire, it set fire to the pole, he said. “The jury was out” on how the posters went on fire in the first place.

    Mr Deenihan said the new posters have a plastic element and on fire, this ignited the creosote (tar or oil-based wood preservative) on the poles, leading to the poles burning down.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/election2016/election2016-news-and-analysis/kerry-town-mayor-in-plea-as-posters-on-esb-poles-a-fire-risk-380140.html


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/election-posters-could-be-deadly-esb-warns-26289419.html


    Here is a politician saying people are setting fire to his posters, one was on an ESB pole, so he is deliberately ignoring ESB warnings, regardless of how the fire started. Also sounds like it was irresponsibly low if "Guys walking home from the pub think it's fun to set them on fire."

    http://www.herald.ie/news/firemans-election-posters-burned-27992421.html

    and he has the nerve to talk about it being ironic!
    it's ironic that they're doing that. I'm calling for efficiencies in the fire service and saying that €100m could be saved, and they're doing this at the same time.


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Just FYI, the person who put up the poster originally is not necessarily the person responsible for the final position of the poster. There is a traditional game of jockeying for position on the pole and moving the other guy's stuff out of the way.
    They should be fixed in a way to withstand high winds, and kept out of reach of vandals, this is why many councils have unfortunately had to put out actual guidelines. Many are completely irresponsible in that regard. As this "jockeying" is such common knowledge they should also be actively driving around daily reviewing the status of all posters in case any have been moved -not to do so is completely irresponsible "fingers in the ear, la-la-la" mentality. If they put up adequate posters daily reviewing would not be necessary, e.g. billboards, or in bus shelters, or those solar power bins.

    I have seen many which appear to have "fallen down the pole" with no other posters on the pole, but were now blocking or partially blocking regulatory road signs.


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    #674
    Moflojo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,006 ✭✭✭Moflojo


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Possible cycling bashing on Joe Duffy later. We can but hope! :D

    https://twitter.com/Liveline_RTE/status/824180121754013698

    Did they get any cyclists on in the end? I tuned in for a few minutes here and there but heard no mention of cycling?


  • Options
    #675
    check_six
    Registered Users Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    I saw an election poster blazing away years ago on Beech Hill Road near Clonskeagh. The sign was up very high, so I don't think it was vandalism. Actually, looking at it on street view the ESB pole still has big scorch marks on it. The thing was dripping molten blazing plastic all down the pole. The fire brigade were kind of blasé about it when I rang it in.

    Never knew it was the electricity being carried overhead that set off the reaction.


  • Options
    #676
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    average_runner wrote: »
    You forgot the lights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    How remiss of me

    "Ah Jaysus Joe dem cyclists with dem big flashin' lights. Me ma is epoplectic and it sends her mad"


  • Options
    #677
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭buffalo


    rubadub wrote: »
    Yes, very much so, if you call deliberate calculated dangerous illegal activity to be "misguided".

    The "dude with the ladder" is usually not the one asking for the sign to be designed to look like a regulatory warning sign.

    Though these 2 scumbags probably had a say in it.

    I'm trying to think of red diamond regulatory signs, and failing. A yield triangle, a stop octagon, various rounds ones for speed limits, clearways, etc. No filled in red triangles spring to mind though?


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    #678
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    buffalo wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of red diamond regulatory signs, and failing. A yield triangle, a stop octagon, various rounds ones for speed limits, clearways, etc. No filled in red triangles spring to mind though?

    There aren't any but it gives the impression of a stop or yield sign to people who are not paying as much attention as they should be. Illegal is the height they hang them and where (on traffic light and other traffic signage polls, often at head height or lower, the ones at Donnybrook crossroads where only 4 foot off the ground). You could argue that motorists should know better than get distracted but they can and possibly do.

    Pedant alert:
    Diamonds or squares, not triangles, sorry :pac:


  • Options
    #679
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭buffalo


    CramCycle wrote: »
    There aren't any but it gives the impression of a stop or yield sign to people who are not paying as much attention as they should be. Illegal is the height they hang them and where (on traffic light and other traffic signage polls, often at head height or lower, the ones at Donnybrook crossroads where only 4 foot off the ground). You could argue that motorists should know better than get distracted but they can and possibly do.

    Pedant alert:
    Diamonds or squares, not triangles, sorry :pac:

    What rubadub is claiming is that they're designed to look like warning signs. I think they're designed to specifically not look like warning signs (not mimicking any existing signs), while still retaining the red of Labour.


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    #680
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    buffalo wrote: »
    What rubadub is claiming is that they're designed to look like warning signs. I think they're designed to specifically not look like warning signs (not mimicking any existing signs), while still retaining the red of Labour.

    I think your both right. They are certainly not like any warning signs in regards shape etc. But in my opinion, they are designed to get the same reaction. They have enough in common with a STOP sign for some people who are not fully focused (even though they should be) on the road. Unlike election posters which you may tune out, the similarity (while minor) is enough to get some people to slow as they may wonder why or if there is a reason for the temporary road sign. I heard several complaints about how easy it was to make that mistake. It may not be the right shape size etc. but enough people seen it that way to make it plausible that it was either intentional or negligent.

    They are designed, in my opinion, to look like road signs, with enough difference that if ever called up on it they can easily and plausibly deny it. Kind of like the POLITE signs for horse riders or cyclists. We have Gardai in Ireland but enough people see police and don't think it through for it to have the desired if technically not illegal (impersonating a member of AGS).


  • Options
    #681
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Pinch Flat wrote: »
    In advance of this afternoons show:

    - they don't wear hi-vis or a helmet
    - they've no driving licences
    - they're not taxed / insured
    - they hold up traffic
    - they should be in single file
    - they cause danger on the roads
    - they've no NCT
    - they're a menace
    - they should have registration plates
    - they should not be on the roads
    - the should not be on the paths
    - they should be on the paths

    yada, yada.......



    Have I missed anything?

    Could do with a tune, and I think you have a hit on your hands. Suggested edit: the 'yada yada' should be after every two lines?


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    #682
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Could do with a tune, and I think you have a hit on your hands. Suggested edit: the 'yada yada' should be after every two lines?
    Pink Floyd - Another brick in the wall
    Should do nicely


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    #683
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    buffalo wrote: »
    I'm trying to think of red diamond regulatory signs, and failing. A yield triangle, a stop octagon, various rounds ones for speed limits, clearways, etc. No filled in red triangles spring to mind though?
    Glad to see you spent time and effort and are as expected failing miserably -there are none that spring to exact standards in my mind either but it certainly takes time to think it through, which they know people will not do in a split second while driving at high speed. I wonder how many have checklists in their head like this and so are never EVER distracted -laughable stuff/point -"that sign clearly has only 7 sides so I can ignore it, octagon wannabe".

    I expect when designing them they discussed with each other, and perhaps lawyers, the max level of imitation they could get away with, just to attempt to weasel out of a court case, just like other dodgy entities like Chinese counterfeit dvds having deliberate spelling mistakes. Or other companies infringing on patents or dubious copying. If coca cola put up signs like this there would be hell to pay.

    The law does not state the number of sides or RAL colour of the red etc, it says
    (a) it is capable of being confused with a traffic sign,
    If you want to argue that there is no way it could be confused then fair enough, please go ahead, people should 100% realise your thinking behind this. You forgot to mention most regulatory signs are not held up with cable ties.

    I genuinely wondered if you were taking the piss. I doubt many people hurtling along at high speed with other distractions currently in their care are counting the edges to determine if it is 7 or 8 sides on a sign before deciding to pay attention or not. New road signs can be introduced and may not be widely publicised. If you are pedantically honing in on my mention of regulatory signs then fair enough, stupid mistake by me to attract unwanted pendants, they are mimicking important warning signs, which are traditionally in red.

    If your party colours happen to be red you should most certainly not use these colours on signs by the road -no excuse, you know fine what you are up to if making signs like this with not even a photo like traditional posters have. They are most certainly mimicking warning signs, the type councils or random builders might put up. The diamond shaping of signs is a more recent thing, certainly mimicing road signs, I never saw election posters anything like the current lot back in the 1980s.

    buffalo wrote: »
    What rubadub is claiming is that they're designed to look like warning signs. I think they're designed to specifically not look like warning signs (not mimicking any existing signs), while still retaining the red of Labour.
    you have got to be taking the piss... if not please say so and I will bother to respond.


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    #684
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭buffalo


    rubadub wrote: »
    you have got to be taking the piss... if not please say so and I will bother to respond.

    I'm not. Looking forward to the response!


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    #685
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,582 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    how many people have been injured by these election signs? genuine question.


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    #686
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,050 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    rubadub wrote: »
    I don't know. This is from 10 years ago

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/election-posters-could-be-deadly-esb-warns-26289419.html



    This article from last year speaks of a fire and how the new plastic posters are worse. It infers it could have been started by vandals, this is why councils have height restrictions.



    http://www.irishexaminer.com/election2016/election2016-news-and-analysis/kerry-town-mayor-in-plea-as-posters-on-esb-poles-a-fire-risk-380140.html


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/elections/election-posters-could-be-deadly-esb-warns-26289419.html


    Here is a politician saying people are setting fire to his posters, one was on an ESB pole, so he is deliberately ignoring ESB warnings, regardless of how the fire started. Also sounds like it was irresponsibly low if "Guys walking home from the pub think it's fun to set them on fire."

    http://www.herald.ie/news/firemans-election-posters-burned-27992421.html

    and he has the nerve to talk about it being ironic!
    So for the hundreds of thousands of posters erected across general, local, European elections and referendums in the last ten years, there has been a handful of fire issues, none of which caused any significant damage.
    rubadub wrote: »
    As this "jockeying" is such common knowledge they should also be actively driving around daily reviewing the status of all posters in case any have been moved -
    Good luck with that, as they say.


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    #687
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,925 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    how many people have been injured by these election signs? genuine question.

    Sweet FA I would say. My issue is they are an eyesore, and the cables cause flats (which I thought was BS until the last election). They bias in favour of money over suitability. A few people will have been hit in the head by them but not with enough force to do lasting damage in most cases


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    #688
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    I've had to swerve out on the road to avoid those diamondy signs getting me in the eye.

    Meanwhile, Montana legislators seek to ban cyclists on rural roads:

    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/american-state-sets-out-plans-to-ban-cyclists-from-riding-on-rural-roads-308546
    The draft bill will make it illegal for cyclists from all two-lane rural roads without a shoulder or cycle lane running alongside, effectively banning cyclists from a large number of the state’s roads, forcing them onto trails instead.

    The bill will also mean that cyclists are not allowed to ride side-by-side, making them to ride in single file no matter how big the group.

    The legislation, which also applies to pedestrians, is still being drafted after receiving a mixed response from local people.


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    #689
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Chuchote wrote: »
    I've had to swerve out on the road to avoid those diamondy signs getting me in the eye.

    Meanwhile, Montana legislators seek to ban cyclists on rural roads:

    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/american-state-sets-out-plans-to-ban-cyclists-from-riding-on-rural-roads-308546

    And it's been tossed out the door with a view to being rewritten after those responsible for it discovered "to their surprise" that it would have affected far more roads than they anticipated, but not things like dual carriage ways or the like, just two-lane roads without paving.

    http://road.cc/content/news/216273-montana-bill-banning-cyclists-ordinary-two-lane-roads-be-rewritten


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    #690
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Rewritten, but still to be voted on #headdesk #helmetsave


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    #691
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I was in rural Montana for a few days once. I can't recall meeting very many motorists on the road, let alone cyclists. Really sparsely populated.


This discussion has been closed.
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