Journalism and cycling

tomasrojo

TheChizler wrote: »

It's not unusual for context about an incident to be provided, we wouldn't blink if they mentioned they lived in a housing estate around the corner.

They wouldn't say that though. They'd say "They were cycling near their home". The Irish Independent said something like "They were cycling near the halting site where they live". That is such unnatural phrasing.

tomasrojo

ED E wrote: »

Just because the fatalities are low doesnt mean its necessarily that safe.

https://www.thejournal.ie/cyclists-injuries-ireland-3823052-Jan2018/

I haven't seen any recent stats, but Ireland's KSIs per billion km travelled a few years ago were pretty ok by European standards. I'm not sure whether 4 hospitalised per day is a lot, because it depends on what "hospitalised" means on average, and how many cyclists there are to begin with.

The only problem with the KSI stats is that they flatter Ireland somewhat, because, say, the Netherlands' average is brought up by all the children and elderly cycling.

work

Weepsie wrote: »

Tombo2001 wrote: »

It would be a lot more realistic in my view to have a bike path on every road.

I doubt it would, without CPOing 1000s of kms of people land and pushing boundaries back a bit.

Average speed cameras would be ideal, traffic calming solutions etc.

More than anything we need to show just how unacceptable it is. People need to be hit hard with heavy fines and custodial sentences for behaviour that endangers the lives of others.

Go to Spain, France, Portugal among others and there's a world of difference in the attitude of drivers.

Yes you are right just back from a holiday in Spain and the driving is so much worse than Ireland it is unimaginable. Most drivers tailgating++++, then overtake where extremely dangerous and say thanks by beeping and scaring the bejesus out of you. As far as I could see it is the norm to do 80 in 40 Zones. Our drivers are a disgrace but the Spanish make them look angelic.

Rechuchote

Hurrache wrote: »

In fact what started it was the Galway incident coming up in conversation and the first thing out of one person was concern for the driver never being right again.

I am intensely curious about why the identity of the driver in this crash has been glided over. The only identification I've see was that he was a "young local man".

@deceit You see a lot of crashes. I've been cycling for 64 years and have never seen someone on a bicycle hit a pedestrian.

greenspurs

Another cyclist injured ….

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/female-cyclist-seriously-injured-in-crash-on-dorset-street-in-dublin-city-centre/ar-BBWg7su?MSCC=1556175109&ocid=spartandhp

"Collision" …
"Was removed to hospital"
"RTC has been cleared"

magicbastarder

not about cycling specifically, but about concerns that though the roads policing force has increased in headcount by 150, actual policing seems to be falling:

Fall in crimes solved by Garda of ‘significant’ and ‘considerable’ concern
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/fall-in-crimes-solved-by-garda-of-significant-and-considerable-concern-1.3870639

Hurrache

Rechuchote wrote: »

I am intensely curious about why the identity of the driver in this crash has been glided over. The only identification I've see was that he was a "young local man". .

In fairness they're still an investigation as to the cause to be completed,.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

not about cycling specifically, but about concerns that though the roads policing force has increased in headcount by 150, actual policing seems to be falling:

Fall in crimes solved by Garda of ‘significant’ and ‘considerable’ concern
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/fall-in-crimes-solved-by-garda-of-significant-and-considerable-concern-1.3870639

It also revealed there was a 20 per cent fall in the number of motorists caught speeding last year despite 150 more personnel and other resources allocated to the Garda Roads Policing Unit.

how do we *know* there are 150 more gardai? we know the gardai are not good at counting...

work

tomasrojo wrote: »

TheChizler wrote: »

It's not unusual for context about an incident to be provided, we wouldn't blink if they mentioned they lived in a housing estate around the corner.

They wouldn't say that though. They'd say "They were cycling near their home". The Irish Independent said something like "They were cycling near the halting site where they live". That is such unnatural phrasing.

It is certainly tone deaf but far from irrelevant. The only time I have seen kids in Dublin ( and I know this was not Dublin) cycling the wrong way was along the rock road, very busy and dangerous road, VERY VERY dangerous and could easily have caused an accident to them or others.

Hurrache

Kids cycle the wrong way all the time in housing estates.

magicbastarder

Hurrache wrote: »

Kids cycle the wrong way all the time in housing estates.

yeah, they don't understand the concept of aerodynamics and waste a lot of their energy unnecessarily. their technique is usually appalling.

Rechuchote

work wrote: »

It is certainly tone deaf but far from irrelevant. The only time I have seen kids in Dublin ( and I know this was not Dublin) cycling the wrong way was along the rock road, very busy and dangerous road, VERY VERY dangerous and could easily have caused an accident to them or others.

Were they by any chance on the Rock Road's contraflow bike lane?

RobertFoster

work wrote: »

Yes you are right just back from a holiday in Spain and the driving is so much worse than Ireland it is unimaginable. Most drivers tailgating++++, then overtake where extremely dangerous and say thanks by beeping and scaring the bejesus out of you. As far as I could see it is the norm to do 80 in 40 Zones. Our drivers are a disgrace but the Spanish make them look angelic.

Out of interest, what part of Spain did you experience the poor driving? I've only cycled in Tenerife and the driving was great. Very patient, loads of room, no aggression. Maybe the islanders are more chill than the mainlanders.

AndrewJRenko

Rechuchote wrote: »

I am intensely curious about why the identity of the driver in this crash has been glided over. The only identification I've see was that he was a "young local man".

I'm really hoping that it doesn't turn out that the driver is a member of the same Traveller community. That would take attention away from the dangerous driving.

Rechuchote wrote: »

@deceit You see a lot of crashes. I've been cycling for 64 years and have never seen someone on a bicycle hit a pedestrian.

My thoughts exactly.

Rechuchote

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm really hoping that it doesn't turn out that the driver is a member of the same Traveller community. That would take attention away from the dangerous driving.

That's what interests me. I think from the terminology of the reports that this is highly unlikely. If he were a Traveller the word used would have been "youth", and not "young man", I'll go bail.

Tombo2001

work wrote: »

It is certainly tone deaf but far from irrelevant. The only time I have seen kids in Dublin ( and I know this was not Dublin) cycling the wrong way was along the rock road, very busy and dangerous road, VERY VERY dangerous and could easily have caused an accident to them or others.

Were they cycling the wrong way? Was that reported?

Wonder how that is verified. One presumes there are witnesses.......

Tombo2001

Another collision involving a child, in N Ireland.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/boy-5-airlifted-to-hospital-after-being-knocked-down-in-ards-38048218.html

Felexicon

The Saturday Panel on Off The Ball this week is all about cycling.

They have Richie Oakley(Times Ireland Editor), Verona Murphy (President of Irish Road Haulage Association) and Shane Coleman (Presenter on Newstalk) on to talk about the rise in popularity and the safety issues around getting out on your bike.

Starts at 1:30 but will be available to podcast

Hurrache

Did you listen to it, is it worth a playback? Richie is generally quite good on this topic, Verona Murphy is awful, not far from thinking that cyclists shouldn't be on the road, and Shane Colman may probably just go the populist or contrarian route ala Ivan Yates.

hans aus dtschl

Felexicon wrote: »

They have Richie Oakley(Times Ireland Editor), Verona Murphy (President of Irish Road Haulage Association) and Shane Coleman (Presenter on Newstalk) on to talk about the rise in popularity and the safety issues around getting out on your bike.

Lol president of the Irish Road Haulage Association on to talk about cycling on off the ball. What next: get Johnny Giles on to talk about motorsport?

I'll have to make sure to steer well clear of that. Sounds like the kind of show that would ruin my day.

Felexicon

Hurrache wrote: »

Did you listen to it, is it worth a playback? Richie is generally quite good on this topic, Verona Murphy is awful, not far from thinking that cyclists shouldn't be on the road, and Shane Colman may probably just go the populist or contrarian route ala Ivan Yates.

Sorry, it's on this coming Saturday

Rechuchote

Why aren't they talking about building the Greater Dublin Area Cycle Network, designed six years ago and shelved? Over 100 CEOs including those of Google, Siptu, TCD, Dublin Chamber of Commerce, etc, etc have written to ask for this to be built immediately for the safety of their staff and members, via https://dublin.cyclingworks.org

Tombo2001

Felexicon wrote: »

The Saturday Panel on Off The Ball this week is all about cycling.

They have Richie Oakley(Times Ireland Editor), Verona Murphy (President of Irish Road Haulage Association) and Shane Coleman (Presenter on Newstalk) on to talk about the rise in popularity and the safety issues around getting out on your bike.

Starts at 1:30 but will be available to podcast

Hate to be giving out....

But WTF. Hatchet job waiting to happen. We have two non-cyclists on a panel of three to discuss cycling.

Class.

Why? When do we ever see a discussion on truck drivers where cyclists are asked for their opinion......

magicbastarder

richard oakley should know not to appear on a panel with verona murphy; she was a disgrace on prime time last year.

CramCycle

Felexicon wrote: »

The Saturday Panel on Off The Ball this week is all about cycling.

They have Richie Oakley(Times Ireland Editor), Verona Murphy (President of Irish Road Haulage Association) and Shane Coleman (Presenter on Newstalk) on to talk about the rise in popularity and the safety issues around getting out on your bike.

Starts at 1:30 but will be available to podcast

Her anti cycling stance aside and refusal to improve safety conditions for her members, how she holds such a position other than she runs a business is beyond me. The issue is that she runs a business that benefits from poor business and safety practices, anything that shifts the blame away from over worked, underpaid drivers where minimal lip service is given to safety. It would be like putting an online bookmaker in charge of a government gambling taskforce.
My father, Uncle and others I know have worked in that sector for years, it has taken a nose dive since the 90s. To the point where they have lost many experienced drivers who simply won't do the long runs anymore as it is too dangerous and stressful, but you don't see her do anything but pay lip service to it.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Why? When do we ever see a discussion on truck drivers where cyclists are asked for their opinion......

It wouldn't be so bad if she had a history of at least trying to look after the people who work in the industry but all the IRHA are business only and misrepresent themselves as being for the drivers so they get a seat at the lobby table.
She is also running for FG in Wexford, so expect to see more from her in the coming while, if you are a FGer, or have them call to your door, ask why someone who could easily have been a main character in American Psycho is nominated as a GE candidate.

mr spuckler

every time I hear mention of her my wife has to tell me to cool the jets as she knows an angry outburst is imminent.

hans aus dtschl

Aside from all of the above, "Off The Ball" is Newstalk's flagship sports programme. Why on earth would the president of the Irish Road Haulage Association have any input whatsoever?

This is textbook Off The Ball cycling coverage tbf.

what_traffic

CramCycle wrote: »

It wouldn't be so bad if she had a history of at least trying to look after the people who work in the industry but all the IRHA are business only and misrepresent themselves as being for the drivers so they get a seat at the lobby table.

Agree - I guess question that has to be asked is why was the IRHA originally setup? Who funded it at the start to get it up and running?

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Agree - I guess question that has to be asked is why was the IRHA originally setup? Who funded it at the start to get it up and running?

This blurb:
http://www.irha.ie/the-association/
certainly does not cover this aspect.

Tombo2001

Rechuchote wrote: »

I am intensely curious about why the identity of the driver in this crash has been glided over. The only identification I've see was that he was a "young local man".

@deceit You see a lot of crashes. I've been cycling for 64 years and have never seen someone on a bicycle hit a pedestrian.

On this point -

There is a wide spread perception, commonly accepted, that cyclists are a danger to pedestrians.

Particularly because - and this is a fact - cyclists commonly cycle on footpaths and cyclists commonly break pedestrian lights.

What I distinguish here is between an annoyance and a danger.

Cyclists are only a danger if indeed pedestrians are being hit by cyclists in significant numbers? Are they? Is there any data on this?

Otherwise, they are just an annoyance, and there are lots of annoying things in life.