Journalism and cycling

Felexicon

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Hate to be giving out....

But WTF. Hatchet job waiting to happen. We have two non-cyclists on a panel of three to discuss cycling.

Class.

Why? When do we ever see a discussion on truck drivers where cyclists are asked for their opinion......

I disagree. A number of the presenters on OTB commute by bike and I think they are stronger than RTE presenters in their willingness to call out bullsh1t by their interviewees.

Hurrache

But apart from Richard the panel makes no sense to me anyway, it's like it's designed to be a **** show for entertainment purposes.

Tombo2001

Felexicon wrote: »

I disagree. A number of the presenters on OTB commute by bike and I think they are stronger than RTE presenters in their willingness to call out bullsh1t by their interviewees.

Fair point.
Clearly from this Shane Coleman - I wont say is on the side of cyclists; but he can take both points of view......which to be fair is a rare quality in anyone in Ireland, never mind just in Irish media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/wheels-come-off-newstalk-as-paul-williams-drives-shane-coleman-to-distraction-1.3030905

Above link is interesting.

The quote below is an excellent summation of the logjam we are in and the prevailing media approach to the issue.


The tetchy tone underlines the divisiveness of the issue of cyclists on our roads. But the frequency with which the topic crops up on Newstalk suggests that producers and presenters alike have identified motorists as a key demographic, complete with grievances that can be aired to ratings-friendly effect.

It also helps that neither side seems able to see the other’s point of view, despite the fact that many people use both forms of transport. Talk about split personalities.

mr spuckler

Hurrache wrote: »

But apart from Richard the panel makes no sense to me anyway, it's like it's designed to be a **** show for entertainment purposes.

she will contribute nothing positive to a conversation about cycling, the only purpose for being there is to boost her profile amongst her constituents (which obviously includes all haulier members of the IRHA).
see her recent tonight on VMTV appearance where she displays her acute knowledge of broader societal issues...

Seth Brundle

Felexicon wrote: »

I disagree. A number of the presenters on OTB commute by bike and I think they are stronger than RTE presenters in their willingness to call out bullsh1t by their interviewees.

A presenter should be somewhat impartial.
If they invited anti-cycling lobbyists on a cycling debate then surely they should have included someone from the cycling lobby

CramCycle

what_traffic wrote: »

Agree - I guess question that has to be asked is why was the IRHA originally setup? Who funded it at the start to get it up and running?

They are vague enough on this, give the public perception that they are almost Union like and are alobby for their "members" which to Joe Public sounds like drivers but in reality, they are a lobby group for a few of the large haulage firms, not their workers. To be fair to her, she knows this and is clever enough to skirt the issue and not say it out loud or in away which is incorrect (albeit very misleading).

mr_spuckler wrote: »

she will contribute nothing positive to a conversation about cycling, the only purpose for being there is to boost her profile amongst her constituents (which obviously includes all haulier members of the IRHA).
see her recent tonight on VMTV appearance where she displays her acute knowledge of broader societal issues...

Looks like FG have one coandidate who won't be elected, bar the employment in the area, I can't see her being elected on merit or intelligence.

hans aus dtschl

Felexicon wrote: »

I disagree. A number of the presenters on OTB commute by bike and I think they are stronger than RTE presenters in their willingness to call out bullsh1t by their interviewees.

I've never once heard more than one sentence worth of OTB mention of cycling that didn't involve discussion of drugs or Lance Armstrong.
I'd go so far as to say they're extremely weak on cycling.

And now they're apparently bringing in a haulier to talk about the sport!

Maybe they'll be discussing the logistics of haulage with respect to cycling teams. Other than that I don't see how or why her opinion should be aired whatsoever.

Rechuchote

Tombo2001 wrote: »

But the frequency with which the topic crops up on Newstalk suggests that producers and presenters alike have identified motorists as a key demographic, complete with grievances that can be aired to ratings-friendly effect.

Not motorists, surely, but a kind of upper-working-class demographic that regards people who ride a bike as contemptible because

a) they're poor, so get offa my road
b) they're self-entitled spoiled lycra louts.

This will only end when separated cycling infrastructure is built, at which time many if not most of these people will

a) whinge that bike tracks cause traffic jams, followed by
b) get bikes and start using the cycling infrastructure themselves.

meeeeh

Rechuchote wrote: »

Not motorists, surely, but a kind of upper-working-class demographic that regards people who ride a bike as contemptible because

a) they're poor, so get offa my road
b) they're self-entitled spoiled lycra louts.

This will only end when separated cycling infrastructure is built, at which time many if not most of these people will

a) whinge that bike tracks cause traffic jams, followed by
b) get bikes and start using the cycling infrastructure themselves.

I would say cyclists in Ireland have above average earnings. I think that's part of the hostility because it is sort of a middle class, middle age and often male pursuit. And frankly it's the group which is easiest to be hostile against and is currently under attack from all sides. When cycling becomes more widespread accross age groups, socio-economic groups and gender it's image will improve.

I agree about infrastructure, it would immensely improve situation.

Rechuchote

meeeeh wrote: »

I would say cyclists in Ireland have above average earnings.

Not if you add the users of DublinBikes and other schemes?

Hurrache

Rechuchote wrote: »

Not if you add the users of DublinBikes and other schemes?

That doesn't count. Anyway, it's not those people that the oddballs have a problem with anyway.

I'm sure there was research done that has shown that cyclists do on average have higher earnings. I'm sure I even bookmarked it at one point but can't find it now.

what_traffic

CramCycle wrote: »

They are vague enough on this, give the public perception that they are almost Union like and are alobby for their "members" which to Joe Public sounds like drivers but in reality, they are a lobby group for a few of the large haulage firms, not their workers.

Is there a coincidence in the date they were founded.
1973
The year Rep. Of Ireland joined the EEA/(now the EU) ?

I believe the initial funding for IRHA came from the "Dept of Transport" at that time. Wanted to create a representative body for the industry. No idea on current revenue streams that they have.

mr spuckler

what_traffic wrote: »

Is there a coincidence in the date they were founded.
1973
The year Rep. Of Ireland joined the EEA/(now the EU) ?

I believe the initial funding for IRHA came from the "Dept of Transport" at that time. Wanted to create a representative body for the industry. No idea on current revenue streams that they have.

from their website...

SUBSCRIBE TO OUR KNIGHTS OF THE ROAD NEWSLETTER

:rolleyes::pac::pac::pac:

and in terms of funding, presumably their patrons are paying for the privilege?

also...

The annual cost of IRHA membership is €250.00 for 1 truck plus €30.00 per truck thereafter.

meeeeh

Rechuchote wrote: »

Not if you add the users of DublinBikes and other schemes?

Earnings in Dublin would be above national average. Turists maybe are exception. I don't think it's an income issue, or weather you can afford a car or not. My husband's bike is worth more than my previous car was at the end. I don't think people feel superior because they own a car, often they own both. I think not enough people cycle so people don't empathise with it and frankly I think I'd go insane if I had to commute in Dublin city centre. It doesn't work and people who are on edge can do stupid things.

Rechuchote

Hurrache wrote: »

That doesn't count. Anyway, it's not those people that the oddballs have a problem with anyway.

Absolutely not true. I've seen and heard drivers ravening about how "DublinBike riders are the worst of all."

buffalo

Rechuchote wrote: »

Absolutely not true. I've seen and heard drivers ravening about how "DublinBike riders are the worst of all."

I've heard plenty of cyclists say it! :pac:

Fian

meeeeh wrote: »

I would say cyclists in Ireland have above average earnings. I think that's part of the hostility because it is sort of a middle class, middle age and often male pursuit. And frankly it's the group which is easiest to be hostile against and is currently under attack from all sides. When cycling becomes more widespread accross age groups, socio-economic groups and gender it's image will improve.

I agree about infrastructure, it would immensely improve situation.

I don't think the hostility has anything to do with the socioeconomic demographics of cyclists, affluent or poor.

It is simply that people encounter cyclists most frequently when they are frustrated, stuck in a queue of traffic, and watching the cyclists glide by ahead of them without having to deal with a traffic Jam. Next most common time they are likely to notice a cyclist is when they are waiting for an opportunity to pass them on a road with less traffic.

This combined with the fact that they are convinced cars "should" be faster than bikes is what generates the hostility. It's just not fair and the cyclists should be punished for it.

RobbieMD

Fian wrote: »

I don't think the hostility has anything to do with the socioeconomic demographics of cyclists, affluent or poor.

It is simply that people encounter cyclists most frequently when they are frustrated, stuck in a queue of traffic, and watching the cyclists glide by ahead of them without having to deal with a traffic Jam. Next most common time they are likely to notice a cyclist is when they are waiting for an opportunity to pass them on a road with less traffic.

This combined with the fact that they are convinced cars "should" be faster than bikes is what generates the hostility. It's just not fair and the cyclists should be punished for it.

I’d agree with you here. I think it come down to simple road rage. I’ve had punishment passes from drivers in luxury brand cars who should know better but for whatever reason, and I can only think of road rage, they break the law when they probably normally wouldn’t in any other context.
I’ve only had one case of road rage from a cyclist when I was the driver and it was a few weeks ago. I have the dashcam but he’s behind me and you can only hear him shouting. He was thick that I was in a bus lane, and that I was straddling the cycle lane. For context this was the stretch at Harold cross bridge where the bollards are now and it was a Sunday. The cycle lane is a broken white line and it’s impossible for a car/bus whatever to use the lane without straddling the cycle lane. He was thick that he couldn’t get past me on his cargo bike and started knocking on the back of the car and shouting in through one of the kids open windows. There was no talking to him, I was just in his way. This was a respectable looking middle aged man who probably normally wouldn’t behave like that except for an episode of road rage.

blackwhite

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Fair point.
Clearly from this Shane Coleman - I wont say is on the side of cyclists; but he can take both points of view......which to be fair is a rare quality in anyone in Ireland, never mind just in Irish media.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/wheels-come-off-newstalk-as-paul-williams-drives-shane-coleman-to-distraction-1.3030905

Above link is interesting.

The quote below is an excellent summation of the logjam we are in and the prevailing media approach to the issue.


The tetchy tone underlines the divisiveness of the issue of cyclists on our roads. But the frequency with which the topic crops up on Newstalk suggests that producers and presenters alike have identified motorists as a key demographic, complete with grievances that can be aired to ratings-friendly effect.

It also helps that neither side seems able to see the other’s point of view, despite the fact that many people use both forms of transport. Talk about split personalities.

Surely the point is that Newstalk have identified that the vast majority of motorists are listening to the radio whilst in their cars, and the vast majority of cyclists aren't listening to the radio whilst commuting.

They're always going to tailor their output to the listenership, so we end up with a bias in perspectives.

Tombo2001

Fian wrote: »

I don't think the hostility has anything to do with the socioeconomic demographics of cyclists, affluent or poor.

It is simply that people encounter cyclists most frequently when they are frustrated, stuck in a queue of traffic, and watching the cyclists glide by ahead of them without having to deal with a traffic Jam. Next most common time they are likely to notice a cyclist is when they are waiting for an opportunity to pass them on a road with less traffic.

This combined with the fact that they are convinced cars "should" be faster than bikes is what generates the hostility. It's just not fair and the cyclists should be punished for it.

YUP - if anything cycling is way more anonymous than cars.

A wealthy CEO in a car is probably in a high powered Merc or BMW, or these days TESLA (because they love the environment). Its a 191 D and everyone knows they are important people.

A wealthy CEO on a bike has a helmet on and a hi-viz, and is on a bike that looks the same as every other bike to people who dont cycle.

Tombo2001

meeeeh wrote: »

Earnings in Dublin would be above national average. Turists maybe are exception. I don't think it's an income issue, or weather you can afford a car or not. My husband's bike is worth more than my previous car was at the end. I don't think people feel superior because they own a car, often they own both. I think not enough people cycle so people don't empathise with it and frankly I think I'd go insane if I had to commute in Dublin city centre. It doesn't work and people who are on edge can do stupid things.

Very important point.

Tombo2001

RobbieMD wrote: »

I’d agree with you here. I think it come down to simple road rage. I’ve had punishment passes from drivers in luxury brand cars who should know better but for whatever reason, and I can only think of road rage, they break the law when they probably normally wouldn’t in any other context.
I’ve only had one case of road rage from a cyclist when I was the driver and it was a few weeks ago. I have the dashcam but he’s behind me and you can only hear him shouting. He was thick that I was in a bus lane, and that I was straddling the cycle lane. For context this was the stretch at Harold cross bridge where the bollards are now and it was a Sunday. The cycle lane is a broken white line and it’s impossible for a car/bus whatever to use the lane without straddling the cycle lane. He was thick that he couldn’t get past me on his cargo bike and started knocking on the back of the car and shouting in through one of the kids open windows. There was no talking to him, I was just in his way. This was a respectable looking middle aged man who probably normally wouldn’t behave like that except for an episode of road rage.

I was that cyclist back in February.

I just having a really crap week/ month; really not in good form. Cycling along, van does an overtake that really was a little bit close but I've had way worse.

It was more that I was in a daze on a quiet road and hadnt heard him coming.

So I start shouting at him about whatever....dangerous overtakes, which it wasnt.

So next junction, he is waiting and I'm gearing myself up for a bollocking.

And he rolls down the window and says "Pal, I just want to know what I did wrong".

Nothing, is the answer. Its me, not you.

RobbieMD

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I was that cyclist back in February.

I just having a really crap week/ month; really not in good form. Cycling along, van does an overtake that really was a little bit close but I've had way worse.

It was more that I was in a daze on a quiet road and hadnt heard him coming.

So I start shouting at him about whatever....dangerous overtakes, which it wasnt.

So next junction, he is waiting and I'm gearing myself up for a bollocking.

And he rolls down the window and says "Pal, I just want to know what I did wrong".

Nothing, is the answer. Its me, not you.

Fair play. God it’s a small world really.

Duffryman

CramCycle wrote: »

Looks like FG have one coandidate who won't be elected, bar the employment in the area, I can't see her being elected on merit or intelligence.

She's the third candidate on the FG ticket here in Wexford, with the other two both being sitting TDs who have a much stronger chance of being re-elected, and there's no way in hell FG will take three seats out of five here.


FG also had a woman as a third candidate the last time out. Can't even remember her name, and she came nowhere. I believe it's all to do with the gender quota thing.

AndrewJRenko

Hurrache wrote: »

That doesn't count. Anyway, it's not those people that the oddballs have a problem with anyway.

I'm sure there was research done that has shown that cyclists do on average have higher earnings. I'm sure I even bookmarked it at one point but can't find it now.

This refers to UK research showing that cyclists have higher than average salaries; https://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/aug/10/cycling-boom-survey
I recall seeing something similar for the USA, probably on treehugger.com iirc.

work

RobertFoster wrote: »

work wrote: »

Yes you are right just back from a holiday in Spain and the driving is so much worse than Ireland it is unimaginable. Most drivers tailgating++++, then overtake where extremely dangerous and say thanks by beeping and scaring the bejesus out of you. As far as I could see it is the norm to do 80 in 40 Zones. Our drivers are a disgrace but the Spanish make them look angelic.

Out of interest, what part of Spain did you experience the poor driving? I've only cycled in Tenerife and the driving was great. Very patient, loads of room, no aggression. Maybe the islanders are more chill than the mainlanders.

Gran Canaria, Only drove for 2 days and witnessed a bike hit by a car, in fairness I didn't see the accident only the result but was not surprised.

work

Tombo2001 wrote: »

work wrote: »

It is certainly tone deaf but far from irrelevant. The only time I have seen kids in Dublin ( and I know this was not Dublin) cycling the wrong way was along the rock road, very busy and dangerous road, VERY VERY dangerous and could easily have caused an accident to them or others.

Were they cycling the wrong way? Was that reported?

Wonder how that is verified. One presumes there are witnesses.......

Without a doubt any driver should be able to stop without hitting anything on the road. I am just pointing out my experience.

plodder

‘Barrow Blueway’ towpath plan divided many river lovers. Pleanála has rejected it

Seems a shame. There was some suggestion here before that it would be a tarmac path, but the plan was to use a more sympathetic unbound surface, which the campaigners then claimed might leach into the river.

The route can still be used by walkers of course, if anyone bothered to market it.

The broadcaster and author wants the river left alone, but promoted as the “Barrow Camino”: “The grassy surface allows you to have more people while still not disturbing the peace. It keeps it quiet and at a certain pace,” she said.

That sounds like it was more about keeping cyclists out.

Duckjob

plodder wrote: »

‘Barrow Blueway’ towpath plan divided many river lovers. Pleanála has rejected it

Seems a shame. There was some suggestion here before that it would be a tarmac path, but the plan was to use a more sympathetic unbound surface, which the campaigners then claimed might leach into the river.

The route can still be used by walkers of course, if anyone bothered to market it.

That sounds like it was more about keeping cyclists out.

Yeah it always amazes me how environmentally conscious objectors like Olivia O'Leary suddenly become when the C word is mentioned. Don't even hear them campaigning to tear up any of the roads they are using to get to these nature spots and return those roads to nature.

I'm also always amazed how in other countries they seem to manage to preserve the essence of beauty spots and at the same time develop them enough to make them accessible and attractive to a more greater section of people. We seem pretty incapable of doing the same here.

magicbastarder

Should mandatory registration of bicycles be introduced in Ireland?
IF YOU LIVE in a major Irish town, there’s a fair chance you’ve had a bicycle stolen or know someone who has.

...

Fine Gael Senator Catherine Noone is now calling for mandatory registration of new bicycles sold in Ireland to prevent theft.
https://www.thejournal.ie/mandatory-registration-bicycles-ireland-4606343-Apr2019/