Journalism and cycling

CramCycle

Simple laws are the best, no use on pavements, front light on bars, rear light attached to person, engine must not be over a certain power or at least restricted to a certain speed. Breaking any rules that are witnessed by a Gardai and deemed to be a danger to themselves or others leads to either a fine of €100 or immediate seizure. Alongside most rules that are applicable to bicycles.

Inevitably this will take 5 years and be unenforceable after our politicians get through with them

JMcL

check_six wrote: »

So what is the best solution for these electric scooter/skateboard thingys? There's no point banning them, so they better come up with some laws to cover them, and fast. I wonder what the regulations are like in other countries. I believe there are a lot of hire e-scooters in other European cities. It couldn't be too difficult to check what they are doing, could it? We surely wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel? Would we?

Could a speed and power limit cover the basic regulations requirements? Licensing and insurance seem a bit OTT for such lightweight bits of kit.

One thing that seems odd about the e-scooters is that even though I've seen ones with good front lights, I haven't noticed any decent rear lights on one, which seems like a strange design omission.

I think some serious thought needs to be put into it before letting the genie out of the bag, especially if it leads to dockless hire scooters appearing on our streets.

I'm in Paris generally a couple of times a year, most recently at Easter, and the things have exploded there. TBH I find the a menace from a pedestrian perspective. They're fast, and are to be found flat out on roads, pavements, and anywhere else you fancy. In between hires they're just dumped whereever.

The Champs Elysee has a tad more space than Dame St. so I shudder at the thought of the chaos they'd cause in Dublin, though to be fair, the same finger could be leveled at dockless bike schemes.

On the other hand, if they did appear, Angry Taxi Driver would have something hate even more than bikes :-)

Seth Brundle

check_six wrote: »

So what is the best solution for these electric scooter/skateboard thingys? There's no point banning them, so they better come up with some laws to cover them, and fast. I wonder what the regulations are like in other countries. I believe there are a lot of hire e-scooters in other European cities. It couldn't be too difficult to check what they are doing, could it? We surely wouldn't try to reinvent the wheel? Would we?

Could a speed and power limit cover the basic regulations requirements? Licensing and insurance seem a bit OTT for such lightweight bits of kit.

One thing that seems odd about the e-scooters is that even though I've seen ones with good front lights, I haven't noticed any decent rear lights on one, which seems like a strange design omission.

There are no laws covering them unless we need to treat them like other vehicles in terms of minimum acceptable standards (lights, brakes, tyres, etc.) and whether they need a licence or not (and insurance, tax and NCT). being in charge of one whilst under the influence also comes into play.
If they are to be treated in the same way as bicycles then that too needs to be legislated for (lights, etc). Do they need helmets? Can they use bus lanes? A bell?

Chips Lovell

It's important to note that they're not banned per-se. Rather that they (and their owners) need to comply to existing laws regarding mechanically propelled vehicles.

meeeeh

Just wondering what is the status of those motorised mobility scooters? Their speed is about 5 km/h but I'm pretty sure the thing was a menace on the road when my grandfather used it to get to and especially from the pub.

CramCycle

meeeeh wrote: »

Just wondering what is the status of those motorised mobility vehicles? Their speed is about 5 km/h but I'm pretty sure the thing was a menace on the road when my grandfather used it to get to and especially from the pub.

There are exemptions for them in law, not sure of the specifics though

rubadub

meeeeh wrote: »

Just wondering what is the status of those motorised mobility scooters? Their speed is about 5 km/h but I'm pretty sure the thing was a menace on the road when my grandfather used it to get to and especially from the pub.

this was a reply about electric wheelchairs.

rubadub wrote: »

I was looking this up and saw nothing about having to be disabled, I expect that would introduced all sorts of needless red tape.

I cannot find anything on irishstatutebook but on UK & Irish sites they seem to all say a max speed of 4mph on footpaths and 8mph on roads.

RSA mention no speed limits
http://rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Special_Purpose_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20Motorised%20Wheelchairs%20and%20Mobility%20Scooters.pdf

this UK site has more (of course the law may be different here)
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-users-of-powered-wheelchairs-and-mobility-scooters-36-to-46

Seth Brundle wrote: »

If they are to be treated in the same way as bicycles then that too needs to be legislated for (lights, etc). Do they need helmets? Can they use bus lanes? A bell?

If treated the same as bikes it would need continual scooting, I have seen a model that does this to some degree. Otherwise the law would also have to change for pedelecs so they could be throttled. The laws may not have to change at all for a model which does need continual scooting.

I did not get a definte answer as to why a throttled ebike is not allowed. It was suggested it was since it was self limiting to some degree. I was wondering if it could also be to encourage fitness, as you do have to put some effort in. I believe the cycle to work scheme was partly to encourage exercise, so if the law did change would throttled pedelecs be allowed, if so would escooters be allowed too on the cycle to work scheme?

if escooters were allowed with a speed of 25km/hr would the limit on electic wheelchairs also be increased? why is the limit on wheel chairs lower at the moment? (if there is one, but the UK gov certainly has one and its speed limit is under 25km/h, but why?)

the law currently says no, but that is presumably referring to a moped type scooter.

‘ pedal cycle ’ means—

(i) a bicycle or tricycle which is intended or adapted for propulsion solely by the physical exertions of a person or persons seated thereon, or

(ii) a pedelec,

but does not include a moped or a scooter;

rubadub

JMcL wrote: »

I think some serious thought needs to be put into it before letting the genie out of the bag, especially if it leads to dockless hire scooters appearing on our streets.

buffalo

Is it time for an e-scooter megathread?

tuxy

buffalo wrote: »

Is it time for an e-scooter megathread?

Not really the best place for talking abuut MPV's, there's a large thread about them on the Electric Vehicles & Hybrids forum.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057872702

buffalo

buffalo wrote: »

Is it time for an e-scooter megathread?

Yes, in the motors forum

buffalo

tuxy wrote: »

Not really the best place for talking abuut MPV's, there's a large thread about them on the Electric Vehicles & Hybrids forum.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057872702

We can challenge them to a race...

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/04/uci-fights-with-motorcycle-federation-over-who-gets-ebikes/

I'm pretty sure we're allowed discuss the same thing in two different fora, there's a fair amount of overlap.

AndrewJRenko

JMcL wrote: »

I think some serious thought needs to be put into it before letting the genie out of the bag, especially if it leads to dockless hire scooters appearing on our streets.

I'm in Paris generally a couple of times a year, most recently at Easter, and the things have exploded there. TBH I find the a menace from a pedestrian perspective.

Have they killed many people over there?


Really, this is just a convenient distraction for Gardai and RSA to avoid having to deal with motorists.

tomasrojo

The Netherlands allowed lights on the person to be a substitute for lights on the bike years ago. At least, I remember they had an ad which showed people being caught in flagrante in different scenarios because they forgot to take the lights off when they got off the bike.

Hurrache

Garda twitter account person appears to be falling back to type.
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1126873567860285440?s=19

AndrewJRenko

Hurrache wrote: »

Garda twitter account person appears to be falling back to type.
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1126873567860285440?s=19

I suspect there is some d1ck who gets to cover the Twitter account once every couple of months or so, maybe when others are sick - and drags them back to 1978 thinking with his/her tweets.

Not sure if this was posted, couple of incidents at a sportive in Birmingham :eek:

https://road.cc/content/news/260539-arrest-made-velo-birmingham-midlands-marshal-reportedly-run-over-and-left-broken

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/impatient-driver-invades-velo-2019-16263921

andy69

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not sure if this was posted, couple of incidents at a sportive in Birmingham :eek:

https://road.cc/content/news/260539-arrest-made-velo-birmingham-midlands-marshal-reportedly-run-over-and-left-broken

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/impatient-driver-invades-velo-2019-16263921

Well that's the end of that I'd say. Man dead, horse dead - sounds like a right mess, but media sort of leaning at the 'bloody cyclists' angle I think ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-48247437

Weepsie

tomasrojo wrote: »

The Netherlands allowed lights on the person to be a substitute for lights on the bike years ago. At least, I remember they had an ad which showed people being caught in flagrante in different scenarios because they forgot to take the lights off when they got off the bike.

Somewhat tenuously related. From watching travel man, all pedestrians in Estonia have to wear a reflector on their person

meeeeh

andy69 wrote: »

Well that's the end of that I'd say. Man dead, horse dead - sounds like a right mess, but media sort of leaning at the 'bloody cyclists' angle I think ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-48247437

It all points to piss poor organization. Marshal, competitor and spectator safety was compromised. The death of a horse maybe couldn't be prevented because you have to prioritize people before animals but surely drivers shouldn't be allowed to do what they did and I doubt police were present.

hesker

Delivery driver who killed cyclist after driving into the back of him at 5mph says he didn't see him

https://road.cc/content/news/260512-delivery-driver-who-killed-cyclist-after-driving-back-him-5mph-says-he-didnt-see

“No purpose would be served by me sending Mr Wilkinson to prison,” said the judge. “The punishment in this case is the knowledge he is responsible for causing a death and that knowledge will stay with him for the rest of his life.”

Duckjob

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure if this was posted, couple of incidents at a sportive in Birmingham :eek:

https://road.cc/content/news/260539-arrest-made-velo-birmingham-midlands-marshal-reportedly-run-over-and-left-broken

"I own the road, I pay for it. Get off my road..."

I don't call that "impatient". I call it dangerously ignorant and entitled. Another driver that needs to have their licence taken off them and posted to the moon.

In an ideal world would be forced to dust off the bike in their shed due to having their driving licence revoked. Won't happen of course, but nice to dream.

Road safety both in UK and here, wont improve until these morons are made an example of.

magicbastarder

andy69 wrote: »

Well that's the end of that I'd say. Man dead, horse dead - sounds like a right mess, but media sort of leaning at the 'bloody cyclists' angle I think ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-birmingham-48247437

the issue with the vet is a cock up, but the poor chap who died very possibly died of natural causes.

eeeee

They should have let the vet through, had an escort or had a marshal jump in the jeep with them to navigate the closed route. Leaving a mare in thay trouble foaling is inexcusable.

The mini driver is an absolute aarsehole.

RIP to the deceased rider, no one expects that.

Pinch Flat

People in the UK seem to get really wound up about road closures for cycling events, but not so much for running / marathon events. Amazing sense of entitlement among motorists there, we're getting as bad here.

Seth Brundle

Duckjob wrote: »

"I own the road, I pay for it. Get off my road..."

I don't call that "impatient". I call it dangerously ignorant and entitled. Another driver that needs to have their licence taken off them and posted to the moon.

I recall a similar type of person but in different circumstances many years ago.
I was a fire marshal at the Phoenix Park Motor Races where a triangular circuit is closed off for three days.
On the day of the races, an irate jogger started arguing with us to let him enter the circuit to jog along the path. We were advising him that it was closed off (as agreed with the OPW) and for safety reasons (as there was a race on, he should wait or take a different route).
He insisted that he "jogged here every day" (although he hadn't been there on the previous days!!!) and "no c**t in an orange jumpsuit was going to stop him".
We radioed it back in and simply let him through.

rubadub

A poster in the escooter thread mentioned the RSA updated their info, the bit in bold was added.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20E%20Bikes%20and%20Pedelecs%20and%20battery%20Scooters.pdf

What is the law on e-bikes, pedelecs or battery powered scooters? Regardless of the type of bike, or whether it requires an initial push start, the rules are:
 If it can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone (i.e. it can continue without you pedalling or scooting it) then it is considered to be a ‘mechanically propelled vehicle’ (MPV).
 Under Road Traffic law if an MPV is used in a public place it is subject to all of the regulatory controls that apply to other vehicles. Therefore it must be roadworthy, registered, taxed and insured.
 The driver of the vehicle must hold the appropriate driving licence and is obliged to wear a crash helmet.

Lad on a bike with a petrol engine strapped on.
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1126935144122781696

Waterford RPU stopped this ‘Contraption ‘traveling at high speed No lighting/helmet When stopped it was discovered that a Petrol engine was attached to the bicycle Arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving No driving license/Insurance & arrested on suspicion of drink driving

Rechuchote

Weepsie wrote: »

Somewhat tenuously related. From watching travel man, all pedestrians in Estonia have to wear a reflector on their person

It started in Finland, where people walking in the country after dark had to wear a small light - not a bad idea. But it's gone a bit over the top.

Duckjob wrote: »

"I own the road, I pay for it. Get off my road..."

Incorrect. In Britain the roads belong to the monarch, which is why we talk about the Queen's Highway. In Ireland the roads are owned by all citizens in common.

Tombo2001

Hurrache wrote: »

Garda twitter account person appears to be falling back to type.
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1126873567860285440?s=19

What is the problem with what the Guards are saying here?

I think its reasonable enough.

tuxy

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What is the problem with what the Guards are saying here?

I think its reasonable enough.

Why should photos taken in public be censored?