Journalism and cycling

Hurrache

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What is the problem with what the Guards are saying here?
.

Pretty much all of it, particularly in the context of the drama the person managing the account cooked up some time ago.

In this example, whose "good name" is being besmirched, and how is a photo taken in public going to (not that it'll ever go to trial) prevent the aforemention person getting a fair hearing?

Seth Brundle

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What is the problem with what the Guards are saying here?

I think its reasonable enough.

So a van is "entitled to good name and fair hearing in court"?
Their response is the usual disinterested and lazy "feck off and stop giving us more work!" reaction

Rechuchote

It amuses me that the same people who are shrieking for cyclists to carry licence plates so they'll be identifiable are angry at motorists' licence plates being shown on a public forum.

Tombo2001

First of all.....

I dont see it as something people should get hot and bothered about.

Youre not allowed show the reg. Who cares...... what difference does it make......really....there are bigger battles. You wont get very far if thats all you have to be victim about.

Second.....if you do show the reg; the presumably the intention is 'naming and shaming'.

If so, then you are not shaming a van. Or the registration. You are shaming the owner.

In turn, what are you shaming the owner of doing? Comitting an offence.

And in turn, the Gardai are quite rightly in my view saying -

(i) dont accuse people in public of committing an offence, when you dont know that they have done so.
(ii) social media is not the forum for deciding if someone is guilty of an offence.

It is quite literally, taking the law into ones own hands. i dont agree with that.

Seth Brundle

Rechuchote wrote: »

It amuses me that the same people who are shrieking for cyclists to carry licence plates so they'll be identifiable are angry at motorists' licence plates being shown on a public forum.

Not sure who you think is shrieking but there's quite a difference between forcing all bicycles to have reg plates and notifying the gardai of a traffic offence.

Fighting Tao

Tombo2001 wrote: »

First of all.....

I dont see it as something people should get hot and bothered about.

Youre not allowed show the reg. Who cares...... what difference does it make......really....there are bigger battles. You wont get very far if thats all you have to be victim about.

Second.....if you do show the reg; the presumably the intention is 'naming and shaming'.

If so, then you are not shaming a van. Or the registration. You are shaming the owner.

In turn, what are you shaming the owner of doing? Comitting an offence.

And in turn, the Gardai are quite rightly in my view saying -

(i) dont accuse people in public of committing an offence, when you dont know that they have done so.
(ii) social media is not the forum for deciding if someone is guilty of an offence.

It is quite literally, taking the law into ones own hands. i dont agree with that.

But you are allowed show the registration plate.

Also, since when is reporting a crime “talking the law into ones own hands”?

Hurrache

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Youre not allowed show the reg.

Why? On what basis?

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Second.....if you do show the reg; the presumably the intention is 'naming and shaming'.

Nobody is named or shamed.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

And in turn, the Gardai are quite rightly in my view saying -

(i) dont accuse people in public of committing an offence, when you dont know that they have done so.
(ii) social media is not the forum for deciding if someone is guilty of an offence.

It is quite literally, taking the law into ones own hands. i dont agree with that.

All it is was a photo of a van parked in a cycle lane. It's factually correct, not a claim or insinuation.

What law was taken into ones own hands?

Should all the videos on the dashcam threads be removed until either A, the poster blurs any identifiable features of all the cars featured, or B, until any potential court or garda case has run their course?

Tombo2001

Fighting Tao wrote: »

But you are allowed show the registration plate.

Also, since when is reporting a crime “talking the law into ones own hands”?

They are asking you not to.

I dont see how publicizing a crime on social media equates to reporting a crime.

Tombo2001

Hurrache wrote: »

Why? On what basis?



Nobody is named or shamed.



All it is was a photo of a van parked in a cycle lane. It's factually correct, not a claim or insinuation.

What law was taken into ones own hands?

Should all the videos on the dashcam threads be removed until either A, the poster blurs any identifiable features of all the cars featured, or B, until any potential court or garda case has run their course?

What is the problem with removing the reg?

Why include the reg?

What difference does it make?

The Gardai - who, whatever else you say about them, are people you want to have on your side and be on good terms with. Why piss them off when they are asking not to do this?

I can see why they are asking not to show it; and I dont think its that big a deal to remove it.

Hurrache

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What is the problem with removing the reg?

Why include the reg?

What difference does it make?

The Gardai - who, whatever else you say about them, are people you want to have on your side and be on good terms with. Why piss them off when they are asking not to do this?

Exactly, what difference does it make. There's nothing illegal with posting a photo of a vehicle that's parked in public.

So what's your problem with it being done in this particular instance?

Tombo2001

Hurrache wrote: »

Exactly, what difference does it make. There's nothing illegal with posting a photo of a vehicle that's parked in public.

So what's your problem with it being done in this particular instance?

My problem with being done is:
the Gardai have asked not to do it;
I dont think it makes any difference to include it or not;

and all other things being equal I dont see the point of ignoring - or wifully contradicting - something the gardai have asked people to do.

Its just bolshiness for the sake of it.

EDIT - And I was referring to a visible reg, rather than posting a photo of someone parked in a bike lane, just to be 100% clear......

Fighting Tao

Tombo2001 wrote: »

They are asking you not to.

I dont see how publicizing a crime on social media equates to reporting a crime.

So by your logic, if I ask you not to post here again then you are not allowed....

Tombo2001

Fighting Tao wrote: »

So by your logic, if I ask you not to post here again then you are not allowed....

You are not answering the question.

We can play whataboutery until the cows come home.

I've made me point - you lot disagree.

I can live with that. Happens frequently.

Hurrache

Tombo2001 wrote: »

My problem with being done is:
the Gardai have asked not to do it;

Whoever manages their twitter account made a bit of an issue on this some time back by claiming it was against GDPR legislation to do (of which the Gardai have no role in enforcing anyway), and doubled down on it. It was pointed out this was incorrect.

They seemed to have no issue since then until now, and are using a pretty spurious excuse.

Whoever was managing the account at that particular time had no backing by law or legislation behind their request, nor good reason.

Shai

God, there is so much wrong with this.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Youre not allowed show the reg.

You are.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

the presumably the intention is 'naming and shaming'.

the intention is to report an offence

Tombo2001 wrote: »

(i) dont accuse people in public of committing an offence, when you dont know that they have done so.

their car certainly has. Unless your claim is that the picture is fake?

Tombo2001 wrote: »

(ii) social media is not the forum for deciding if someone is guilty of an offence.

the person who put that car there is guilty of an offence. Not sure why you are even debating this.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

It is quite literally, taking the law into ones own hands..

No, it's reporting an offence. "Taking the law into ones own hands" would involve tracking down the person who put the car there, and get them to pay the fine.

Fighting Tao

Tombo2001 wrote: »

You are not answering the question.

We can play whataboutery until the cows come home.

I've made me point - you lot disagree.

I can live with that. Happens frequently.

You didn’t ask me a question!

Tombo2001

Shai wrote: »

God, there is so much wrong with this.


You are.


the intention is to report an offence


their car certainly has. Unless your claim is that the picture is fake?


the person who put that car there is guilty of an offence. Not sure why you are even debating this.


No, it's reporting an offence. "Taking the law into ones own hands" would involve tracking down the person who put the car there, and get them to pay the fine.

Thats where you lost me.

I expressed an opinion and you come back with sarchasm and condescension.

After that

I have made one core point, that neither you nor anyone else has addressed.

Tombo2001

Fighting Tao wrote: »

You didn’t ask me a question!

Ok thanks, all the best.

droidus

Why not just leap the sarchasm?

Duckjob

Tombo2001 wrote: »

My problem with being done is:
the Gardai have asked not to do it;
I dont think it makes any difference to include it or not;

and all other things being equal I dont see the point of ignoring - or wifully contradicting - something the gardai have asked people to do.

Its just bolshiness for the sake of it.

EDIT - And I was referring to a visible reg, rather than posting a photo of someone parked in a bike lane, just to be 100% clear......

I don't think people would be so sensitive about being advised not to do it if they felt the Gardai as a force, were offering any protection to cyclists against dangerous drivers.

I certainly don't feel like I have protection from the law when I take to the road on my bike.

Cyclists reporting dangerous passing, with clear camera footage, are routinely getting brushed off by guards that are too lazy or too de-motivated or both to take any action.

FFS - One poster reported an incident which was quashed from going any further because a superintendent said it was ok because the cyclist "didn't wobble".
Sorry, but if that standard of leprechaun policing is the standard from which we should feel safe on our roads then God help us all.

If the gardai actually got their act together, and maybe took a few leaves out from West Midlands Police in UK, who are actively go after those who vulnerable road users on the road, well then people might be more likely to take kindly to their tweets.

Tombo2001

Duckjob wrote: »

I don't think people would be so sensitive about being advised not to do it if they felt the Gardai as a force, were offering any protection to cyclists against dangerous drivers.

I certainly don't feel like I have protection from the law when I take to the road on my bike.

Cyclists reporting dangerous passing, with clear camera footage, are routinely getting brushed off by guards that are too lazy or too de-motivated or both to take any action.

One poster reported an incident which was quashed from going any further because a superintendent said it was ok because the cyclist "didn't wobble". #
Sorry, but that leprechaun policing is the standard from which we should feel safe on our roads then God help us all.

If the gardai actually got their act together, and maybe took a few leaves out from West Midlands Police in UK, who are actively go after those who vulnerable road users on the road, well then people might be more likely to take kindly to their tweets.

Thank you for a respectful answer that discusses the issue at hand.

Tombo2001

droidus wrote: »

Why not just leap the sarchasm?

I wouldnt put up with it if someone said it to my face; and I just dont see why I should put up with here.

Maybe I'm too old school.

Hurrache

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Thats where you lost me.

I expressed an opinion and you come back with sarchasm and condescension.

After that

I have made one core point, that neither you nor anyone else has addressed.

In fairness your initial claims came across as fact when you said the person who made the initial tweet wasn't allowed to post such a photograph.

What's your core point that hasn't been addressed?

AndrewJRenko

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What is the problem with what the Guards are saying here?

I think its reasonable enough.

Vehicles don't have data protection rights.

AndrewJRenko

Tombo2001 wrote: »

My problem with being done is:
the Gardai have asked not to do it;
I dont think it makes any difference to include it or not;

and all other things being equal I dont see the point of ignoring - or wifully contradicting - something the gardai have asked people to do.

Its just bolshiness for the sake of it.

EDIT - And I was referring to a visible reg, rather than posting a photo of someone parked in a bike lane, just to be 100% clear......

Gardai sometimes over reach. There is no basis in law for their request.

AndrewJRenko

Tombo2001 wrote: »

What is the problem with removing the reg?

Why include the reg?

What difference does it make?

The Gardai - who, whatever else you say about them, are people you want to have on your side and be on good terms with. Why piss them off when they are asking not to do this?

I can see why they are asking not to show it; and I dont think its that big a deal to remove it.

Gardai need to be "on our side" regardless of whether they like or approve of our Twitter posts or not. They don't get to throw a professional strop over our failure to comply with their personal likes or dislikes.

Lumen

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Gardai ...don't get to throw a professional strop over our failure to comply with their personal likes or dislikes.

Have you had much contact with AGS?

Muahahaha

Good video here by the Guardian on the issue of cyclists breaking red lights and the hysterical reaction in the media to same

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBP2LTQxqZ8

Grassey

DÚN LAOGHAIRE-RATHDOWN County Council has said it has sourced the world’s first Monna bench – a place to charge your phone, pump a flat tyre on a bicycle or just to sit down and have a rest.

This did give me a chuckle

[The council] positively encourages all members of the community to cycle at all life stages and abilities as a mode of sustainable transport that delivers environmental, health and economic benefits to both the individual and the community.

Rechuchote

Duckjob wrote: »

Sorry, but if that standard of leprechaun policing is the standard from which we should feel safe on our roads then God help us all.

If the gardai actually got their act together, and maybe took a few leaves out from West Midlands Police in UK, who are actively go after those who vulnerable road users on the road, well then people might be more likely to take kindly to their tweets.

It's possible that this won't happen until all gardaí are required to spend time on bicycles, not at a particular stage of their career but as a regular thing.