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Journalism and cycling

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle



    Anecdoetally I'd agree, even on my worst commutes by bike, I don't feel awful by the time I get in. By car, even on the best days, the only positive I have is that I am not ass grumpy as I could have been. Public Transport is hit or miss, on a good day, I get stuff done on the way in and it goes quick, on a bad day, it's awful but still better than a Car on a bad day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭Skrynesaver



    According to Mrs. Saver, I'm "like a briar" when I get in after driving... I find start stop commuting a very tiring form of driving and as if I've to drive a couple of days in a row I feel very stodgy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,002 ✭✭✭cletus


    I'd love to be in a position to cycle to work. Used to do it every day. Car is the only option now


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    cletus wrote: »
    I'd love to be in a position to cycle to work. Used to do it every day. Car is the only option now

    Some people drive most of the way then cycle the last few KM where traffic is heavy and bikes make better progress. Would that be an option? It would probably require showers at work.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,933 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    tuxy wrote: »
    Some people drive most of the way then cycle the last few KM where traffic is heavy and bikes make better progress. Would that be an option? It would probably require showers at work.

    Alot of people do this on the N11, you see them coming in, I presume, from further down into Wicklow and then pulling in once they hit the heavy traffic before Cabinteely or Stillorgan and cycling the rest of the way. Saves alot of time during the school and college terms I imagine. A guy I work with used to do the same comign from Drogheda, pull in somewhere in North Dublin and cycle the rest of the way rather than face the M50


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,002 ✭✭✭cletus


    tuxy wrote: »
    Some people drive most of the way then cycle the last few KM where traffic is heavy and bikes make better progress. Would that be an option? It would probably require showers at work.

    I commute from Rathangan to Naas, parking is at work, and I bring my two boys to school, which is directly beside my work, so unfortunately not :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    cletus wrote: »
    I commute from Rathangan to Naas, parking is at work, and I bring my two boys to school, which is directly beside my work, so unfortunately not :(

    It’s only 25k each way. Electric cargo bike and it’s be easy :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    tuxy wrote: »
    It would probably require showers at work.
    this is one of the main reasons I got an ebike, can cycle in wearing cheapo 100% non breathable rain gear in high wind & rain and not break a sweat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,219 ✭✭✭JMcL



    Yep, I'd agree. I'm fortunate enough that home to work rarely involves any holdups in the car and takes about 15 minutes. It's somewhere between 30 and 40 minutes on the bike depending on how energetic, adventurous (I can choose between 100m and 200m of climbing) or windy it is.

    The main thing though is that it provides a nice buffer to empty my head of making the kids lunches and getting them out the door and getting ready for the day, and doing the reverse on the way home. I've also got way more energy during the day and in the evening. I'm making a conscious effort to find fewer weather related excuses (main no-no is drizzly rain which plays havoc with my glasses).

    Also as MB said, there's the feelgood factor that you're doing a little bit for carbon sequestration as if the fuel stays in the tank, it ain't being belched out into the atmosphere


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Bike lanes save lives of drivers as well as cyclists, study finds
    Cars slow down and those behind wheel are more aware of surroundings in areas with good cycling infrastructure, research reveals


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Bike lanes save lives of drivers as well as cyclists, study finds
    Cars slow down and those behind wheel are more aware of surroundings in areas with good cycling infrastructure, research reveals


    That doesn't surprise me in the least.

    One of the principals of Vision Zero as employed in the Netherlands Denmark and elsewhere is that good infrastructure is self-enforcing in terms of speed limits and general good behavior.

    That's why if you go to Amsterdam, you see cars generally driving in a much calmer manner in urban areas. it's not because there's police waiting around every corner to catch the loons (there aren't) , its because the whole infrastructure sends out the clear message that the area is for people first and a place where cars drivers are required to drive calmly and respectfully.

    We have the polar opposite here - most of our infrastructure screams out - CARS FIRST! Which is why we have such a culture of selfish and self-entitled driving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Duckjob wrote: »
    We have the polar opposite here - most of our infrastructure screams out - CARS FIRST! Which is why we have such a culture of selfish and self-entitled driving.

    To the point where the dizzy guys at the OPW have it as their latest wacky plan to have lots of car parking in the Phoenix Park. Remember when they wanted to culvert the canals? A laugh a minute, those boys!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Cyclists can ride in middle of the lane, motorists told
    Motorists will be reminded that cyclists have the legal right to ride in the middle of a lane if they need to.

    The Road Safety Authority (RSA) confirmed that it would include information on “primary positioning” in a new copy of Rules of the Road, which will be published later this summer.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/cyclists-can-ride-in-middle-of-the-lane-motorists-told-x8dn3kfcz


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Cyclists can ride in middle of the lane, motorists told
    Motorists will be reminded that cyclists have the legal right to ride in the middle of a lane if they need to.

    The Road Safety Authority (RSA) confirmed that it would include information on “primary positioning” in a new copy of Rules of the Road, which will be published later this summer.
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/cyclists-can-ride-in-middle-of-the-lane-motorists-told-x8dn3kfcz

    I've criticised the RSA a lot in the past but fair play to them on this.

    Would be nice if the gardai would row in with support on this as well.

    Was reading a official garda document on road safety there yesterday and the part on cycling reads like it was written in the 1930s and never updated. Numerous references telling cyclists to "keep left" with no qualifiers or exceptions, no practical or safety reasons given why a cyclist might need to, and should not "keep left" in certain circumstances.

    All in all, it reads suspicously like "keep in out of the way and don't be holding up real traffic". Even if that's not the intention, we all know thats how its going to be interpreted by a subset of motorists who let's say already have a particular mindset about "cyclists".

    I'm sure the gardai can see this, but they sadly don't seem to be in any hurry to improve their outdated message.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I don't know what this document says exactly, but generally speaking, "keep left" means "keep to the left hand side of the road". It doesn't necessarily mean ride within an inch of the ditch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    I don't know what this document says exactly, but generally speaking, "keep left" means "keep to the left hand side of the road". It doesn't necessarily mean ride within an inch of the ditch.


    I know, and everyone *should* know what "keep left" means. I just think when applied to cycling if you say "keep left" without offering any more nuanced detail, people will (in some cases, willfully) misinterpret that to support the notion that a cyclist should always be over at the left side kerb and if a cyclist is in the middle of a lane they are being arrogant / breaking the rules etc etc.

    Like many others here, I've lost count of the number of times I've had abuse like "You're in the middle of the f**kin road, you dickhead!" roared at me by taxi drivers and others when taking primary position in a lane, or even just preparing to turn right.

    Ironically many of those that will misinterpret gardai telling cyclists to "kept left" are probably the same morons that insist on driving up the right hand lane of an empty motorway.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Interesting changes in Amsterdam

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/04/unwelcome-guests-moped-riders-protest-as-amsterdam-drives-them-from-bike-lanes

    Unwelcome guests: moped riders protest as Amsterdam drives them from bike lanes

    Convoys of mopeds speed down Amsterdam’s bike lanes, beeping their horns and flouting their bare heads. This isn’t some strange Dutch festival, though. These were protests from some of the thousands of furious moped riders ahead of a new city regulation which came into force this week to force them out of bike lanes, on to main roads and into helmets.

    The cycling city of Amsterdam is stepping up a gear – with plans to ban petrol and diesel vehicles from the centre by 2030, the removal of 10,000 car-parking spaces, a hike in parking charges and a wide range of measures to take from the car and give to pedestrians, cyclists, green space and children.

    The move to ban them from bike lanes makes sense, but people always fight change


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Interesting changes in Amsterdam

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/04/unwelcome-guests-moped-riders-protest-as-amsterdam-drives-them-from-bike-lanes





    The move to ban them from bike lanes makes sense, but people always fight change

    My first experience of Dutch cycling infrastructure, years ago with my Dutch friend in Leiden, did involve what we call a moped nearly hitting us coming around a corner at speed.

    Given the pedelec options available, I'm not sure there are that many people using them there as there used to be.


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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,822 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Irish hospitals treat one cyclist every three days for trauma injury on roads
    Three-quarters of those injured were men and average age of patients was 44 years


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Thinkingaboutit


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    To the point where the dizzy guys at the OPW have it as their latest wacky plan to have lots of car parking in the Phoenix Park. Remember when they wanted to culvert the canals? A laugh a minute, those boys!

    That plan really looks horrible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Irish hospitals treat one cyclist every three days for trauma injury on roads
    Three-quarters of those injured were men and average age of patients was 44 years

    I'm not clear how bad these numbers are, as I'm not clear on what the total number of cyclists in Ireland is, what the average age of a cyclist in Ireland is, what percentage of cyclists in Ireland are men, what percentage of cyclists hospitalised are sports cyclists at time of injury, and so on.

    For example, treating one cyclist every three days sounds quite bad, but what they really mean, I assume, is that they treat a little over a hundred cyclists a year on average. Which might be bad, but it depends on how bad the injury is, and also how many cyclists there are to begin with. If you assume about 250,000 cyclists in Ireland, it's (sort of) a 1 in 2000 chance of having to visit a hospital in a given year. Is that worse odds than, say, a pedestrian?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,396 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I'm not clear how bad these numbers are, as I'm not clear on what the total number of cyclists in Ireland is, what the average age of a cyclist in Ireland is, what percentage of cyclists in Ireland are men, what percentage of cyclists hospitalised are sports cyclists at time of injury, and so on.

    For example, treating one cyclist every three days sounds quite bad, but what they really mean, I assume, is that they treat a little over a hundred cyclists a year on average. Which might be bad, but it depends on how bad the injury is, and also how many cyclists there are to begin with. If you assume about 250,000 cyclists in Ireland, it's (sort of) a 1 in 2000 chance of having to visit a hospital in a given year. Is that worse odds than, say, a pedestrian?

    a girl at work who cycles in had a pedestrian walk out in front of her and she ended up with a fractured arm, so she is one of those stats. Annoying but didnt put her off cycling and no lasting damage.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    silverharp wrote: »
    a girl at work who cycles in had a pedestrian walk out in front of her and she ended up with a fractured arm, so she is one of those stats. Annoying but didnt put her off cycling and no lasting damage.
    All the same, that would put plenty of people off cycling, especially if it happened not long after they started.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    silverharp wrote: »
    a girl at work who cycles in had a pedestrian walk out in front of her and she ended up with a fractured arm, so she is one of those stats.
    Would a fractured arm be included in stats on "major trauma"?

    Twelve of the cyclists died, all of whom had head injuries, according to Dr John Cronin, emergency medicine consultant at St Vincent’s University Hospital in Dublin.

    Wearing a helmet was associated with a significantly reduced rate of head injury, he said. Some 27 per cent of cyclists wearing helmet had head injuries, against 52 per cent of those not wearing helmets.
    I would be interested in how many who died were wearing helmets, and what is the average helmet usage per mile traveled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,068 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    rubadub wrote: »
    I would be interested in how many who died were wearing helmets, and what is the average helmet usage per mile traveled.

    5 wearing out of 12 fatalities, IIRC. This'll end up in the megathread territory quickly though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Wearing a helmet was associated with a significantly reduced rate of head injury, he said. Some 27 per cent of cyclists wearing helmet had head injuries, against 52 per cent of those not wearing helmets.

    I wonder whether he's using "significantly" in the sense of "statistically significant". If so, I wonder where he got the background wearing rate(*) from: a study, RSA figures, or just looking at the wearing rate of people admitted with no head injuries.

    The shortcomings of hospital-based studies in the first place come into it too, as mentioned in the Irish Cycle piece.

    (*)Now I look at the phrasing, I don't think they're doing the usual case-control or quasi-case-control study of looking at helmet-wearing percentage among the head injured and comparing with the background rate of helmet wearing in the total population (or a proxy measure of this) to see if helmet-wearers are under-represented in those admitted with head injuries. They're dividing up the hospitalised cyclists into helmet-wearing or non-helmet-wearing and comparing percentages of those two groups with head injuries.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I don't know how the total helmeted versus total non-helmeted numbers among the roughly 400 injured broke down, but if you treat it as 200 helmeted and 200 non-helmeted and do a chi-square analysis (way of comparing frequencies), it looks like clearly statistically significant outcome.

    But those aren't the real figures. Also, all sorts of confounders in hospital studies, as the Irish Cycle link mentions. Also, not mentioned there, response bias among the non-head injured (feel they can get away with telling staff that they were wearing a helmet, avoiding guaranteed disapproval), which has been brought up as a problem before.


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