Journalism and cycling

Tombo2001

average_runner wrote: »

I think your out of touch with schools. At primary level its mostly school workbooks that kids write in and can't be reused. For us this year school books for third class was a 100 and 80 for 1st class.


As for school uniforms, I would say the cost over a year is 200 euro for a boy. Our little lad goes through 3-4 uniforms a year, 2 school tracksuits easily and 2 pairs of shoes and easily 3 pairs of runners!! Could never pass them down as wear and tear is high.

Then add on the school bags, stationary and print pack for the year and you have another 100 euro.

Then throw in their sport, for two kids including membership etc, sport comes close to 3g for us.

Picking at straws here but....

sports memberships are different to school. We probably spend as much if not more on sports memberships as we do on schools.

The uniform - depends on how fussy the school is but if you are allowed wear a pair of black or white nike runners, then they can be worn anytime not just in school.

School bag should last two years at least. Tracksuits and shirts are for nothing in Dunnes.


Personally - all in I would not see Primary School as a major cost, in the scheme of things.

Tombo2001

Weepsie wrote: »

Interesting in that it frames the arrival of cycists as something of an annoyance or something. Often cyclists are painted as an obstacle that delays people, a nuisance to be navigated. I don't think the same is said for running.

I mention this only because the half marathon on sunday mean it was an absolute PITA to try and get past the park and out beyond the canal.

On the bike or in the car?

radia

The thing about school uniforms is that even if the uniform cost is €200, that's not actually €200 extra on your budget. It's not as though the kids would be running round naked if they weren't going to school. So if calculating school costs, the proper cost is the difference between what uniforms cost and how much you'd be paying for clothes if they weren't wearing uniforms.

I'd bet this is a lot less than €200 - in fact possibly even a negative number.

Same with when people are quoting how much school lunches cost (not in this thread). Presumably they still feed the kids at weekends and during the holidays.

homer911

-- Double checks what forum I am on --

Weepsie

Tombo2001 wrote: »

On the bike or in the car?

I was on a bike. The route I took to get to the park had no information. It wasn't until chesterfield avenue that it was apparent that most of the roads were closed.

buffalo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Ha ha

I wouldnt keep picking these examples if they didnt keep appearing.

I dont pick examples from the Irish Examiner - which I read regulary - because I dont see them there. Likewise RTE.IE

But I do see them at the Irish Times.

Try picking the counter-examples for the next six months. I've given you one to start.

average_runner

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Picking at straws here but....

sports memberships are different to school. We probably spend as much if not more on sports memberships as we do on schools.

The uniform - depends on how fussy the school is but if you are allowed wear a pair of black or white nike runners, then they can be worn anytime not just in school.

School bag should last two years at least. Tracksuits and shirts are for nothing in Dunnes.


Personally - all in I would not see Primary School as a major cost, in the scheme of things.

Sports cost are massive but its great for their confidence.

Our school doesn't allow runners and the track suit is from the school only as are the jumpers.

As for school bags, kids don't want the same bag as the year before and with most kids changing their bags, you can't really say no.

I am not complaining about the costs but a general statement above was a bit too general.

CramCycle

radia wrote: »

The thing about school uniforms is that even if the uniform cost is €200, that's not actually €200 extra on your budget. It's not as though the kids would be running round naked if they weren't going to school. So if calculating school costs, the proper cost is the difference between what uniforms cost and how much you'd be paying for clothes if they weren't wearing uniforms.

I'd bet this is a lot less than €200 - in fact possibly even a negative number.

Same with when people are quoting how much school lunches cost (not in this thread). Presumably they still feed the kids at weekends and during the holidays.

A valid point which I always wondered, well not really, that no broadcaster or columnist makes when complaining about the cost of clothes. They also never query why the parents giving out never volunteer for the School pr Parent board where they could influence such decisions, but hey ho. My kid has no uniform, but the neighbours do, I think she said 50euro for the full kit, 100 at most per year, but typically that gets a year and a half. But they would have to clothe the kid regardless, more likely in something they wold feel less comfy wearing the same clothes day in day out, so the cost would likely be similar or less, dependent on the uniform and how many different outfits the parents felt necessary (I happily get my kid to rewear the same stuff so long as it looks clean, they are kids, washing every day would be insane).. School books so far are negligible, and the school runs a for rent scheme in later years, where the school buys the books outright and rents them at a fifth of the for new cost. Imagine the cost of finding stuff for them to do all day long, compared to the minimal cost of school books.

Long story short, sending a kid to school is cheap in this country compared to paying child minders or trying to educate them yourself, and anyone who says different is ignoring major factors or places their values in the wrong place.

Tombo2001

average_runner wrote: »

Sports cost are massive but its great for their confidence.

Our school doesn't allow runners and the track suit is from the school only as are the jumpers.

As for school bags, kids don't want the same bag as the year before and with most kids changing their bags, you can't really say no.

I am not complaining about the costs but a general statement above was a bit too general.

An education also serves an important purpose.:P

Tombo2001

buffalo wrote: »

Try picking the counter-examples for the next six months. I've given you one to start.

Tell ya what.....you work on the counter examples.

I'm not here to prove your point.

Thanks.

CramCycle

average_runner wrote: »

Our school doesn't allow runners and the track suit is from the school only as are the jumpers.

Volunteer for the Parent /Teacher board and petition them to change this stance, see do other parents feel the same

As for school bags, kids don't want the same bag as the year before and with most kids changing their bags, you can't really say no.

Interestingly, Yes, yes you can.

I am not complaining about the costs but a general statement above was a bit too general.

Has to be general as every school is different and any statement bar a general one is too easy to rip too pieces, see above :pac:

average_runner

The same issue that applies to cycling for road closures applies to running.

You just find that people involved in running or cycling understand and the ones outside it could care less.

My brother was giving out about a road closed for 30 mins for a run, but the cost that saves on helping to keep people fit.

The crap you deal with when your a steward at a race is amazing, but only from a small few.

average_runner

CramCycle wrote: »

Volunteer for the Parent /Teacher board and petition them to change this stance, see do other parents feel the same

Interestingly, Yes, yes you can.

Has to be general as every school is different and any statement bar a general one is too easy to rip too pieces, see above :pac:

I don't want to petition or giving out about it, I believe its the right decision by the school.

As for the school bag, I wouldn't say no, i don't believe its fair on the kids to be single out from their friends or class mates. I rather I do without something before the kids, they are only young once, let them enjoy their childhood every way possible.

Weepsie

average_runner wrote: »

The same issue that applies to cycling for road closures applies to running.

It would be great if they ever actually granted road closures for cycling. It's rare.

As for the school bag, I wouldn't say no

As above, you can.I get it that parents don't want their kids to be upset, but it's far more important that we start to impart a little bit of common sense and show them that things can be reused, built to last. It's a bag, it brings books and food to school. Gets thrown under a desk when there, and then left in a hallway at home. It just needs to be robust. It's possibly I used the same bag for 5 years of school at one point.


A lot of the expenses are avoidable, or at least possible to be managed differently.

buffalo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Tell ya what.....you work on the counter examples.

I'm not here to prove your point.

Thanks.

You've just proved it!

Tombo2001

average_runner wrote: »

The same issue that applies to cycling for road closures applies to running.

You just find that people involved in running or cycling understand and the ones outside it could care less.

My brother was giving out about a road closed for 30 mins for a run, but the cost that saves on helping to keep people fit.

The crap you deal with when your a steward at a race is amazing, but only from a small few.

Funny enough I was steward for a running race at the phoenix park some years back that involved standing near the entrance for Ashtown Gate, and directing traffic left towards the zoo rather than towards chesterfield avenue.

Most were fine, a few F'd and Blinded......but two punters actually tried to drive past me....even though i am there in my hi viz, barriers up etc etc.

They werent having it, no way!

Garda was on a motorbike about 50 yards behind me, and let them know what he thought.

Macy0161

Weepsie wrote: »

Interesting in that it frames the arrival of cycists as something of an annoyance or something. Often cyclists are painted as an obstacle that delays people, a nuisance to be navigated. I don't think the same is said for running.

Doesn't seem to apply when there's cycling marshals at the big running races either!

Tombo2001

Macy0161 wrote: »

Doesn't seem to apply when there's cycling marshals at the big running races either!

the irony being that when we talk about a middle aged fitness boom - aged 50+ running puts a lot of pressure on joints, cycling doesn't do that.

(counterpoint is that aged 50+, any tumble off the bike can lead to fractures; this doesn't really happen with running).

to put it differently - there are very few active sports that the average person can do once they reach middle age and beyond.

Its swimming, cycling.....that's about it. Not many can continue with indoor football or squash or whatever at that point. Some can, but most cant. Golf, no matter what way you cut it, is not aerobic exercise.

But middle aged men in particular take up cycling, they are routinely ridiculed and sneered at.

Weepsie

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Most were fine, a few F'd and Blinded......but two punters actually tried to drive past me....even though i am there in my hi viz, barriers up etc etc.

2 cars were seemingly allowed drive west on the eastbound cycle lane(towards city) on the cycle lane. They might have been part of the organisers, but that's just unacceptable. There were people using the lane.

Budawanny

Tombo2001 wrote: »

the irony being that when we talk about a middle aged fitness boom - aged 50+ running puts a lot of pressure on joints, cycling doesn't do that.

(counterpoint is that aged 50+, any tumble off the bike can lead to fractures; this doesn't really happen with running).

to put it differently - there are very few active sports that the average person can do once they reach middle age and beyond.

Its swimming, cycling.....that's about it. Not many can continue with indoor football or squash or whatever at that point. Some can, but most cant. Golf, no matter what way you cut it, is not aerobic exercise.

But middle aged men in particular take up cycling, they are routinely ridiculed and sneered at.

Climbing , bouldering , hill walking also.

Undercover Elephant

Tombo2001 wrote: »

But middle aged men in particular take up cycling, they are routinely ridiculed and sneered at.

I've given that conundrum some thought and reached the following conclusion:

F**k 'em.

CramCycle

average_runner wrote: »

I don't want to petition or giving out about it, I believe its the right decision by the school.

What was the point of the post then? Personally I would be offended at the thoughts of shoes and tracksuits but thats neither here nor there, you pointed out:

3-4 uniforms a year, 2 school tracksuits easily and 2 pairs of shoes and easily 3 pairs of runners

Saying it was 200euro, and implying this was an undue burden, maybe I misunderstood. There is the guts of 5 changes of clothes there, so 40euro each including shoes. Now, I won't dispute the numbers of shoes as every child is different but you'd have to buy those clothes anyway was my point. Kids shoes, bar the Penneys ones, are not that cheap. At best, 5 from Penneys would be 60euro, 5 from a sports shop, on sale, maybe 150euro, and from a proper shoe shop, would be 300euro Long story short, if I was getting that much for 200euro, and gettign them worn out by my kid, I'd be over the moon. Sorry I misunderstood and thought you were giving out but it makes sense now.

As for the school bag, I wouldn't say no, i don't believe its fair on the kids to be single out from their friends or class mates. I rather I do without something before the kids, they are only young once, let them enjoy their childhood every way possible.

And thats your choice, I don't. If it holds up, it holds up. Two school bags lasted me through Secondary school. Primary I can't remember but I can't imagine it was one a year. You have made that choice, not your kid, you are the adult. If you want to pay for the new bag, fire away. Almost all the kids in my sons school have those free bags from Cul Camps, he got a bag as a present, it will last him until it breaks. When it breaks, I will buy him a quality one in the hope it will last. Believe me though, if a kid singles out another for their bag, they certainly are not the type of friend I would want my kid to have.

radia

Refreshingly, the Irish Examiner doesn't seem to have the Irish Times anti-cyclist mindset. (I'm being charitable here; I was going to say 'agenda'.)

Yesterday's Examiner: A new attitude - Cycling in the city

Irish Examiner
The city council can open cycleways, but there needs to be a cultural shift in how non-cyclists regard them.

Today's Examiner: Nespresso turns aluminium capsules into bike

The latter is basically just a press release from Nespresso, but at least the Examiner has managed to present it without a snarky side-swipe at cyclists.

buffalo

radia wrote: »

Refreshingly, the Irish Examiner doesn't seem to have the Irish Times anti-cyclist mindset. (I'm being charitable here; I was going to say 'agenda'.)

And yet the Examiner is owned by the IT... so it's only a matter of time before the anti-cycling anti-cyclist agenda pervades every column, page and section! :pac:

donvito99

If not posted already, https://www.echolive.ie/opinion/Its-highway-robbery-Why-is-the-motorist-always-bled-dry-9f196130-39f2-4e67-9f7e-24cf64e27336-ds

Retired District Court Judge Michael Pattwell (who includes his email in the article as pattwellsverdict@eircom.net) bemoans the fact that, despite paying tax upon tax, cities are increasingly becoming "no-go areas" for motorists.

He goes on to say;

The 1.5 metres obligatory passing distance for overtaking bicycles is another example.

That would be fine if we had super-wide roadways all over Ireland but the fact of the matter is that we don’t. Living in a rural area, it would, for most of my local journeys, be absolutely impossible to pass a cyclist at the 1.5 metres required without putting myself well over the centre of the road, and where there is a continuous white line in the centre that would result in my breaking of the law.

... Probably one of the most dangerous manoeuvres of all is the common habit cyclists have of overtaking vehicles on the left. I couldn’t count the number of times this has put my heart crossways.

... It is quite common now to arrive at a junction, controlled by ‘STOP’ signs or traffic lights, only to find a space has been marked out right across the whole carriageway for bicycles, which results in the cyclist creeping up and positioning him/her self right in front of the lead car.

Overtaking on the left.

Using the ASL box provided for cyclists.

Legal, efficient and safe, yet this man was charged with discharging justice for years... I wonder how many cyclists were brought before his court for killing people on the roads??

rubadub

donvito99 wrote: »

Retired District Court Judge Michael Pattwell

Then, of course, we still have to pay road tax

The 1.5 metres obligatory passing distance for overtaking bicycles is another example.

retired or removed?!?

I can accept that level of ignorance from a "bloke in the pub" type, but a fcuking judge!!

Stark

Just saw that on twitter (on a thread about motorists being caught for speeding). Reads like a Junior Cert English essay. Quite worrisome that someone so poorly educated could be in a position with so much responsibility.

CramCycle

rubadub wrote: »

retired or removed?!?

I can accept that level of ignorance from a "bloke in the pub" type, but a fcuking judge!!

A judge in Longford, not that long ago once said a shop was well within its rights to refuse service/entry to their premises based solely on the colour of their skin. I expect nothing more from judges TBH, they are so far removed from the real world, i am surprised they can see us anymore.

Dowee

Went to the echolive.ie facebook page to see what sort of response that article was getting and when it was all back slapping I couldn't let it go had to comment. I don't usually like engaging on discussions like this on facebook but the fact that guy was a judge just tipped the balance.

mr spuckler

I think it's even worse than it just being a retired judge saying this. He has chaired an international conference hosted by the RSA.

So someone in that position is clearly seen as an authority on road safety, not just another random country based judge. And this is the **** he comes out with :mad: