Journalism and cycling

rubadub

RobbieMD wrote: »

You’d be fine if your vehicle was classed as a goods vehicle. This is indicated on the tax disc that ought to be displayed

+1, my friend who is a tradesman was done for parking as he did not have the valid disc (or whatever is needed). He was legitimately unloading and the van does have the appearance of a commercial van, but that does not matter.

I would imagine loads of them are chancers like this.

buffalo

RobbieMD wrote: »

You’d be fine if your vehicle was classed as a goods vehicle. This is indicated on the tax disc that ought to be displayed

I might be missing something (again), but it doesn't mention "goods vehicle" in the exception.

( e ) a prohibition on the parking of a vehicle imposed by article 36(2)(a) shall not apply to a vehicle parked while goods are being loaded in or on to it or unloaded from it, for a period not exceeding thirty minutes from the commencement of the parking.

RobbieMD

buffalo wrote: »

I might be missing something (again), but it doesn't mention "goods vehicle" in the exception.

In that SI, if you look at the definitions section at the start it defines a goods vehicle as-

"goods vehicle" means a vehicle used exclusively for carrying goods and taxed for commercial purposes”

It would be a stretch in my opinion to suggest any vehicle could enjoy the exemption for loading/unloading goods when the definition is quite clear of what goods vehicle is in that SI

You could always argue the point in a court of course. Well spotted too

rubadub

The goods vehicle is mentioned in regards to loading bays

42. (1) Where traffic sign number RRM 009 [Loading Bay] is provided, a vehicle other than a goods vehicle being used for loading or unloading shall not be parked during a period which shall be indicated on an information plate.

(2) A goods vehicle being used for loading or unloading shall not be parked in a loading bay for a period exceeding 30 minutes.

AndrewJRenko

rubadub wrote: »

+1, my friend who is a tradesman was done for parking as he did not have the valid disc (or whatever is needed). He was legitimately unloading and the van does have the appearance of a commercial van, but that does not matter.

I would imagine loads of them are chancers like this.

More often than not, the blockage of loading bays is down to commercial vehicles that aren't loading or unloading. Whether it is a food break, or a catch up on paperwork or Facebook break, or just handy all day parking, there is always a good reason apparently.

tomasrojo

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

The Dutch cycling crowd can still be quite aggressive. If you slight an Amsterdam cyclist, even one who's doing something stupid, expect to be on the end of a rant in which you get called a farmer. The subtext being, you've no idea how a city works.

Origin of the English word "boor", I think.

Tombo2001

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

The Dutch cycling crowd can still be quite aggressive. If you slight an Amsterdam cyclist, even one who's doing something stupid, expect to be on the end of a rant in which you get called a farmer. The subtext being, you've no idea how a city works.

On the face of it - yes that's aggressive.

On the other hand - the underlying issue could be that even in Holland, people will take a cycling path for granted as a place where they can walk or park.

And maybe..... polite reminders aren't effective in dealing with this issue.

Going back to the discussion of last week - cyclists are urged to accept criticism, behave like grown ups if you like. To engage with motorists in a civil, non confrontational way.

So that they can tell us 'You're wrong' without the stress of an argument.

If any of us walks up to Mr Taxi Driver or Van Guy and asks - excuse me sir, would you mind not parking in this cycle lane..... how do you think that will go?

Pinch Flat

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-city-streets-where-motorists-are-most-likely-to-get-cars-clamped-38418851.html

Loving the whole spin on this article and just show how weird the car centric mindset is. It’s like people are doing something innocent (“sure I was just popping in here, so what if I’m blocking the bus lane”) and get attacked by clampers.

De Bhál

Pinch Flat wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-the-city-streets-where-motorists-are-most-likely-to-get-cars-clamped-38418851.html

Loving the whole spin on this article and just show how weird the car centric mindset is. It’s like people are doing something innocent (“sure I was just popping in here, so what if I’m blocking the bus lane”) and get attacked by clampers.

I don't see any of that spin in that piece. I was expecting to see something about over zealous clampers but no, just mainly a list of why people are getting clamped.

plodder

De Bhál wrote: »

I don't see any of that spin in that piece. I was expecting to see something about over zealous clampers but no, just mainly a list of why people are getting clamped.

Thought I must have clicked on the wrong link as well

Tombo2001

Yup - I'd agree with that.

Hazel Chu would be a fairly bike friendly councillor.

One interesting point -

The motorists that most deserve to be punished - if we view clamping as a punishment for illegal parking - are those that are least likely to be clamped.

One car per day for parking in a cycle lane. And its not just a cycling lane issue, because on a two lane road, this individual is taking a whole lane out of circulation. They are reducing the capacity of the road by 50%. The economic cost of this is very substantial; on a busy road they might be slowing thousands of people down; just by a few minutes each, but collectively it adds up to a lot.

Their infringement is a thousand times worse than the guy who leaves his car parked on Merrion Square for an hour unpaid.

But if you clamp them - then the car could be stuck there for 24 hours. So is that why they arent clamped?

Mickiemcfist

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Yup - I'd agree with that.

Hazel Chu would be a fairly bike friendly councillor.

One interesting point -

The motorists that most deserve to be punished - if we view clamping as a punishment for illegal parking - are those that are least likely to be clamped.

One car per day for parking in a cycle lane. And its not just a cycling lane issue, because on a two lane road, this individual is taking a whole lane out of circulation. They are reducing the capacity of the road by 50%. The economic cost of this is very substantial; on a busy road they might be slowing thousands of people down; just by a few minutes each, but collectively it adds up to a lot.

Their infringement is a thousand times worse than the guy who leaves his car parked on Merrion Square for an hour unpaid.

But if you clamp them - then the car could be stuck there for 24 hours. So is that why they arent clamped?

Good point, they should just issue the fine the same way they issue Eflow fines.

Tombo2001

"Despite a high-profile campaign by a number of cycling groups to highlight the extent of illegal parking on cycle lanes, the latest figures show that less than one vehicle is being clamped per day for such an offence."

I've noticed a lot of reference recently to 'Cycling Groups' and the Cycling Lobby and so on.....

Does this exist - in any way.

I see a few twitter handles out there, but that doesnt seem like any more than one bloke writing tweets.

Are there 'cycling groups' whose purpose is to lobby. What do they consist of? As distinct from say cycling cclubs....

De Bhál

Tombo2001 wrote: »

"Despite a high-profile campaign by a number of cycling groups to highlight the extent of illegal parking on cycle lanes, the latest figures show that less than one vehicle is being clamped per day for such an offence."

I've noticed a lot of reference recently to 'Cycling Groups' and the Cycling Lobby and so on.....

Does this exist - in any way.

I see a few twitter handles out there, but that doesnt seem like any more than one bloke writing tweets.

Are there 'cycling groups' whose purpose is to lobby. What do they consist of? As distinct from say cycling cclubs....

https://www.dublincycling.com/cycling/who-are-dublin-cycling-campaign

Tombo2001

I'd love to do a cyclist 'hazard lights' day.

Where cyclists get a set of those magic hazard lights that allows us dump the bike in the middle of the road while we nip in to wherever and do our messages.

I'd have no problem getting a reg plate for the bike if it brought all those other privileges.

Duckjob

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If any of us walks up to Mr Taxi Driver or Van Guy and asks - excuse me sir, would you mind not parking in this cycle lane..... how do you think that will go?

"Deepest apologies my good fellow. When I parked I somehow failed to notice that I had ensconced my vehicle incorrectly in an area designated for the safe passage of citizens using human power vehicles. I shall expunge my vehicle from the area forthwith!"

Am I right?

Chips Lovell

Tombo2001 wrote: »

And maybe..... polite reminders aren't effective in dealing with this issue.

Going back to the discussion of last week - cyclists are urged to accept criticism, behave like grown ups if you like. To engage with motorists in a civil, non confrontational way.

So that they can tell us 'You're wrong' without the stress of an argument.

If any of us walks up to Mr Taxi Driver or Van Guy and asks - excuse me sir, would you mind not parking in this cycle lane..... how do you think that will go?

It isn't your job to be policing the roads. Any time someone does take it upon themselves, whether its motorists to other motorists, motorists to cyclists, cyclists to motorists, or cyclists to other cyclists, it invariably ends up in aggro.

Tombo2001

Chips Lovell wrote: »

It isn't your job to be policing the roads. Any time someone does take it upon themselves, whether its motorists to other motorists, motorists to cyclists, cyclists to motorists, or cyclists to other cyclists, it invariably ends up in aggro.

Grand - just as long as you say the same thing to pedestrians that give out about cyclists on footpaths.

mr spuckler

Chips Lovell wrote: »

It isn't your job to be policing the roads. Any time someone does take it upon themselves, whether its motorists to other motorists, motorists to cyclists, cyclists to motorists, or cyclists to other cyclists, it invariably ends up in aggro.

Is that really policing? If you politely ask someone to move on because they're illegally blocking your path? Let's revert to the parking your bike in the middle of the roadway trick, do you think motorists would patiently wait and safely and silently move around you when the road became clear?

Chips Lovell

But that's from the "two wrongs make a right" school of thinking. As a motorist you're meant to move around any obstruction once safe to do so.

Mickiemcfist

I know it's my own fault for looking in the comments section of the journal. But Cllr Bill Clear really is some cabbage:

https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-car-clamping-4773916-Aug2019/

Tombo2001

Chips Lovell wrote: »

But that's from the "two wrongs make a right" school of thinking. As a motorist you're meant to move around any obstruction once safe to do so.

On the face of it you are right.

But a related issue is that cyclists seem to be held to a higher standard than all other road users.

I've never seen you or anyone else say to a motorist that its not their job to police whether cyclists are breaking red lights.

AndrewJRenko

Chips Lovell wrote: »

It isn't your job to be policing the roads. Any time someone does take it upon themselves, whether its motorists to other motorists, motorists to cyclists, cyclists to motorists, or cyclists to other cyclists, it invariably ends up in aggro.

I've had hundreds if not thousands of experiences with motorists than didn't end up in aggro. It is possible for one adult to speak to another adult without aggro.

CramCycle

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

I know it's my own fault for looking in the comments section of the journal. But Cllr Bill Clear really is some cabbage:

https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-car-clamping-4773916-Aug2019/

The journal, where idiots go to feel better about themselves

AndrewJRenko

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

I know it's my own fault for looking in the comments section of the journal. But Cllr Bill Clear really is some cabbage:

https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-car-clamping-4773916-Aug2019/

Speaking of cabbage councillors

https://twitter.com/JimGildea2014/status/1162415679531827200?s=19

Tombo2001

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've had hundreds if not thousands of experiences with motorists than didn't end up in aggro. It is possible for one adult to speak to another adult without aggro.

To be fair to thejournal - the comments section is tosh, and to an extent that's not their fault.

But the coverage of cycling, the actual journalism, is reasonably even. Compared to cough cough some of the print media.

Tombo2001

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Speaking of cabbage councillors

https://twitter.com/JimGildea2014/status/1162415679531827200?s=19

I am looking forward to see his next tweet because there has been a fair sized backlash.

Would take a special person to pretend that never happened.

Miklos

What an absolute turnip, he's been in the petrol game for most of his working life so it's no wonder he's anti-cyclist.

Chips Lovell

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I've never seen you or anyone else say to a motorist that its not their job to police whether cyclists are breaking red lights.

Ah here. Aside from the fact that saying "I've never seen you condemn X, therefore you must in favour of (or at the very least indifferent to) X" is taking whataboutery to hitherto unscaled heights, I actually said this only a few posts previously:

Chips Lovell wrote: »

It isn't your job to be policing the roads. Any time someone does take it upon themselves, whether its motorists to other motorists, motorists to cyclists, cyclists to motorists, or cyclists to other cyclists, it invariably ends up in aggro.

What did you think I meant?

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I've had hundreds if not thousands of experiences with motorists than didn't end up in aggro. It is possible for one adult to speak to another adult without aggro.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but that doesn't tally in any way with my own experience. The vast majority of encounters I've seen have involved one or both parties losing their cool and one or or both parties being utterly wrong.

CramCycle

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but that doesn't tally in any way with my own experience. The vast majority of encounters I've seen have involved one or both parties losing their cool and one or or both parties being utterly wrong.

I have tried the calm and reasonable approach, it is a mix, 10% acknowledge, 20% refuse to listen, 10% acknowledge but inform you that they were in the right and you don't understand, the rest are red lining before you open your mouth, like a rabid dog waiting to be let off the lead.

The rabid ones can be crazy though, many threatening to come after you and follow you for awhile. Last weekend, car came round a corner on the wrong side of the road in a private estate, signposted for 10kmph, doing at least 60kmph. All I said was slow down, followed me to the shops roaring abuse and asking me to come over to the car park so he could box the head of me. Interestingly, when I said he could try it there and then he didn't, wonder was it the CCTV/witnesses?!? Told me he was in first gear, then asked what business of it was mine ( I have children, like many others, who were playing outside) during the course of our discussion.