Journalism and cycling

Roadhawk

07Lapierre wrote: »

If 20 riders turned up for a club spin, Most Cycling clubs would split into two groups of 10.

Thats not true. I have often counted 30+ cyclists per group passing my front door more than once a day. Particularly this time of year. Id be happy to record it the next time they pass.

cdaly_

Roadhawk wrote: »

Imagine the amount of road space that would be freed up if Luas lines and bus lanes weren't as plentiful.

Imagine if private cars were not allowed within the M50. Imagine the amount of road space that would be freed up for buses, trams and cyclists (and the odd taxi). You could even allow (genuine) blue badge holders to drive their private cars and it would still be so much nicer.

Roadhawk

blackwhite wrote: »

Given they successfully prosecuted a farmer for failing to pull over with a tractor/trailer combo (smaller footprint), then in extreme cicrumstances it would appear that Driving without Due Care/Consideration could be a factor.

To prosecute one road user is not uncommon but who would be prosecuted in a group of 20x2? would it be the 2 at the front? the 2 at the back? Or the whole lot???

Massive grey area.

buffalo

Roadhawk wrote: »

the truth is that many people need want to use a car on a daily basis (even some of those living inside the canal belt).

FYP.

mcgratheoin

Roadhawk wrote: »

many people need to use a car on a daily basis (even some of those living inside the canal belt).

We could re-litigate this over and over again - it's been done to death earlier in this thread, including such gems as "I have to have a car to bring my kids to the hospital if they get hurt".

Suffice to say that

• Yes, many people need to use a car on a daily basis.
• A significant proportion (anybody's guess how many?) of people who use a car on a daily basis do not need to, they choose to.

The argument advanced by most cycling commuters here is that at present society is not very good at encouraging the latter group of users to choose alternative transport.

Roadhawk

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Seriously? Based off what argument? That the bus lanes and Luas lanes aren't crammed to capacity like the car lanes? Bearing in mind that bus lanes also operate as cycle thoroughfares and taxi lanes, the passenger numbers across the canal cordon who could use bus lanes (buses/taxis/bikes) are pretty similar to those in the car lanes (cars/goods/motorbikes) so shouldn't the argument be that we should give 50% of every road to each set of users?

Based not on any argument but on logical observation. I know what vehicles can use a bus lane and still most of them sit completely empty when tens of cars are queued up waiting in traffic...

mcgratheoin wrote: »

I'd also dispute your inference that the Luas in any way significantly detracts from the traffic capacity of Dublin's road network. By that logic we may as well turn the DART into a road as well.

The majority of the LUAS lines are made up of road space taken from private vehicles...not bus lanes, or cycle tracks...

If we had an underground that followed the same line as the DART route then the DART could be made obsolete and turned into an excellent cycleway!

cdaly_ wrote: »

Imagine if private cars were not allowed within the M50. Imagine the amount of road space that would be freed up for buses, trams and cyclists (and the odd taxi). You could even allow (genuine) blue badge holders to drive their private cars and it would still be so much nicer.

You are right, there would be far more road space for buses, trams, etc. if cars were taken off the M50 but as mcgratheoin kindly pointed out there bus lanes and trams lanes arent crammed to capacity so what would be the need? There is however currently a traffic crisis for motorists, so there is a need for capacity.

07Lapierre

Roadhawk wrote: »

Thats not true. I have often counted 30+ cyclists per group passing my front door more than once a day. Particularly this time of year. Id be happy to record it the next time they pass.

Not every club in the county passes your door! Are these 30 cyclists wearing club kit? what club is it? why don't you send them an email and ask them to reduce the size of their groups?

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: Back on topic please, this thread is about journalism and cycling.

cdaly_

Roadhawk wrote: »

Based not on any argument but on logical observation. I know what vehicles can use a bus lane and still most of them sit completely empty when tens of cars are queued up waiting in traffic...

Bus lanes should look empty.


"Bus/HOV lanes embody an inherent dilemma. If they are functioning properly, they appear empty or unused compared to the congested general purpose lanes, even if they are carrying far more people/hour, and may even be aiding SOV [single-occupant vehicle] traffic."

There is however currently a traffic crisis for motorists, so there is a need for capacity.

There can never be enough capacity. See Induced Traffic

Roadhawk

mcgratheoin wrote: »

We could re-litigate this over and over again - it's been done to death earlier in this thread, including such gems as "I have to have a car to bring my kids to the hospital if they get hurt".

Ok well that excuse is just stupid to be honest.

I know a few living inside the canal belt most who have cars because they are from other counties and couldn't be arsed getting a bus/train home at the weekends. Two of them are in sales and need to travel on a daily basis but their based in Dublin City. One being an auctioneer and another a Solicitor. again both based in the City but need to travel a lot for their jobs. All of them have bicycles and use them when it suits. Come to think of it they nearly all drive when having to travel more than 20-30 minutes.

mcgratheoin wrote: »

The argument advanced by most cycling commuters here is that at present society is not very good at encouraging the latter group of users to choose alternative transport.

But you have to wonder why? I mainly choose to drive because i couldn't be bothered getting up earlier to go out in the cold/wet to cycle or wait 5-10 mins for a train or bus when i could be sitting in my car, coffee in hand, heated seats on, heating on, radio on, completely comfortable and still complete my journey in roughly the same time. Its a no brainer for me. If I were living inside the canal belt I would probably have a different approach and cycle.

magicbastarder

blackwhite wrote: »

There's a farmer in Mayo who thought like that in the past.........

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/tractor-driver-banned-over-7km-traffic-tailback-1.2177126

this has come up before, and the evidence as given is horse****.
a tailback of 100 cars covering 7km would mean 70m per car.
people on motorways drive closer than that - the idea that people travelling at 20km/h would allow 70m is nonsensical.

Roadhawk

Sorry MOD...steering back on topic...

The Irish Times have said that less and less cyclists are paying their fixed penalty fines. If nobody pays it will they just get rid of them?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...2016-1.2946716

blackwhite

Roadhawk wrote: »

Sorry MOD...steering back on topic...

The Irish Times have said that less and less cyclists are paying their fixed penalty fines. If nobody pays it will they just get rid of them?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...2016-1.2946716

The article appears to be about Court-issued fines only - which is bizarre considering that the courts would have the details of each person who appeared in front of them to actually get issued with the fine!

If it was about FCNs I'd be less surprised by it.

07Lapierre

I prefer positive journalism

http://wp.me/pqBUy-3Fv

Chuchote

Great news in 07Lapierre's link:

OVER 12,000 COMMUTERS ON BICYCLES CROSS INTO DUBLIN CITY CENTRE IN THE MORNING RUSH HOUR
16/2/17

— Car and bus use down as walking, rail and cycling numbers up.
Dublin’s Canal Corden traffic count is showing a year-on-year increase of 11% in the number of commuters on bicycles crossing the canals at the morning rush hour between 2015 and 2016.

The actual numbers have increased from 10,893 to 12,089. The count does not include the large numbers of people who start their cycling commutes within the canals — not conunted is the vast bulk of DublinBikes users, a number of areas with high bicycle use, and people leaving railway stations on bicycles.

The canal counts are also only taken in November — a month which year-round traffic counters show fewer people cycling than most months of the year.

AndrewJRenko

Roadhawk wrote: »

The Irish Times have said that less and less cyclists are paying their fixed penalty fines. If nobody pays it will they just get rid of them?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...2016-1.2946716

I'm not sure I get your logic. More and more drivers are ignoring their bannings for dangerous driving, so should we just stop banning them?

https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2017/0106/843097-over-8-000-banned-drivers-on-irish-roads/

Roadhawk wrote: »

The majority of the LUAS lines are made up of road space taken from private vehicles...not bus lanes, or cycle tracks...

We have two Luas lines. The green line is 95% off-road space.

Roadhawk wrote: »

You are right, there would be far more road space for buses, trams, etc. if cars were taken off the M50 but as mcgratheoin kindly pointed out there bus lanes and trams lanes arent crammed to capacity so what would be the need? There is however currently a traffic crisis for motorists, so there is a need for capacity.

The future direction of transport is around removing private cars from cities, and replacing them with a fleet of vehicles doing point-to-point trips with multiple passengers on board. Imagine the impact of getting back 97% of the parking space in Dublin and making it available for people to use, whether for walking or cyclist or just living space?

http://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/mobility-liveable-cities-media-release.pdf

Max Rockatansky

average_runner wrote: »

M50 is a bad road for any comparsion, best to avoid it even at the weekend, you see terrible things on it.

Road to Wexford/Rosslare after Enniscorthy, alot of cars would pull into the hardshoulder if safe. Road Wexford to Waterford also

I often cycle these roads in the hard shoulder. One of the biggest hazards I have faced is from cars and lorries approaching from behind who have moved into the hard shoulder to let faster cars pass them.

Tenzor07

Anyone listening to Newstalk FM just before 8am?

Guests on the show were Green party councillor Kieran Cuffe talking about transport... and who else did they bring on... George Hook!!
My god the anti-bicycle vitriol spouting from that old b'llx, he's just a parody of himself now, with his blind hatred of anyone on two wheels!

Roadhawk

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Anyone listening to Newstalk FM just before 8am?

Guests on the show were Green party councillor Kieran Cuffe talking about transport... and who else did they bring on... George Hook!!
My god the anti-bicycle vitriol spouting from that old b'llx, he's just a parody of himself now, with his blind hatred of anyone on two wheels!

Can listen here:

https://www.newstalk.com/Could-cycling-solve-Dublins-traffic-problem

...and i though I was bad...George Hook for Taoiseach

check_six

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Anyone listening to Newstalk FM just before 8am?

Yeah. Heard it. Ridiculous piece. Yer man had clearly not had his pint of coffee yet. During his own radio show there used to be an element of playing devil's advocate and a notion that the terrible things he would spout were just to wind people up. This disappeared about 5 years ago or so, maybe longer. His show is now a slightly toned version of the behind the stage splenetic ill thought out ramblings of an angry confused crackpot. The 'back stage' outbursts were the ones on the phone-in this morning.

Cuffe talked about relieving congestion, making it easier for everyone to get about, making the city centre more pleasant for everyone, or, at least, he tried to. The other fellow ranted and raved that Cuffe was a fanatic and people are being run over by cyclists all over the place all the time and it was all Cuffe's fault. Not very edifying.

What's worse is that it was sandwiched in between news reports of some poor fellow who had been mown down and killed by a hit and run driver last night.

Lemming

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Anyone listening to Newstalk FM just before 8am?

Guests on the show were Green party councillor Kieran Cuffe talking about transport... and who else did they bring on... George Hook!!
My god the anti-bicycle vitriol spouting from that old b'llx, he's just a parody of himself now, with his blind hatred of anyone on two wheels!

Jesus Christ, listening to it now; the only fanatic on the show was Hook.

I'm glad I don't ever have to turn on the radio whenever I drive and listen to him as his voice doesn't carry to UK shores. It'd be more rage-inducing than listening to Slayer 'South of Heaven' whilst stuck in a heavy traffic jam :pac:

AndrewJRenko

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's a tiny bit disheartening when you have dinner with your family, and a recent cycling story comes up, and you get a 'well, cyclists act like they own the road' sort of response from people. one of whom had to collect me after my front wheel was turned into a banana after a motorist hit me (and admitted they were in the wrong).

I find the best answer to this is 'And who exactly DOES own the roads then, Aunty Mary'. You might be off her Xmas card list, but it does make her think.

Chuchote

Roadhawk wrote: »

Can listen here:

https://www.newstalk.com/Could-cycling-solve-Dublins-traffic-problem

...and i though I was bad...George Hook for Taoiseach

…in the light of Trump for US president?

Chuchote

Hm, it's odd; Hooky objects to cyclists on footpaths, and he objects to cycleways, which would take them off the footpaths!

Chuchote

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/streetwise-cyclists-1.2979627

Ronan McDermott of Rathgar writes:

Another day, another broadside against cyclists on the letters page (February 15th). Perhaps it is time to hear from the cyclists who obey the rules of the road, who sport appropriate high-vis clothing and front and rear lights, who respect other road users, and always give way to pedestrians when forced (as often occurs) off the road. Ordinary Decent Cyclists (ODCs) of the world unite! Though, obviously we don’t want to lose our chains.

magicbastarder

we are through the looking glass when it's the RSA telling politicians to cool their jets on use of hi-vis.

http://irishcycle.com/2017/02/19/this-is-not-a-police-state-road-safety-boss-tells-politicians-looking-for-mandatory-high-vis/

rubadub

magicbastarder wrote: »

we are through the looking glass when it's the RSA telling politicians to cool their jets on use of hi-vis.

http://irishcycle.com/2017/02/19/this-is-not-a-police-state-road-safety-boss-tells-politicians-looking-for-mandatory-high-vis/

I still find this hard to believe, I first thought it was like waterford whispers, now think its more like monty python.

Road Safety Authority CEO Moyagh Murdock was forced to remind politicians that we do not live in a “police state” after the Fianna Fail transport spokesman asked about making high-visibility clothing mandatory for pedestrians to wear, and the transport minister Shane Ross agreed with the idea.

can you imagine Michelle & Barack Obama getting out in Dalkey to stroll 10 yard on a "pedestrian street" for a pint in finnegans and Bono stepping in "ehh, sorry missus you have to put this on", and all the special agents wearing high viz, or the queen (would actually like to see that!). Imagine lads in the airport flogging them, and cops posted outside the airport doors, very easy fines there.

Do these clown politicians wear high viz themselves, do they force their wives & children to do the same?

tomasrojo

I'm assuming, though it's not at all clear, that they're thinking of people walking on rural roads with no footway. Though who knows.

magicbastarder

i assume they are too. though my wife and i were speculating over street traders making a killing from people leaving rural pubs who'd forgotten to bring their hi-vis with them.

tomasrojo

Planet Money could do a podcast about the development of this new economic ecosystem.