Journalism and cycling

buffalo

There's a more in-depth recent article here: https://www.dublininquirer.com/2019/09/11/sarah-there-are-proven-ways-to-cut-school-traffic

Tombo2001

There's been a fair bit of activity around 'cycle buses' to schools, this is a parent led initiative and I've noticed a lot of twitter talk around them. For sure there is one in Galway, and I think a few around Malahide or Portmarnock.

This is where 3-4 parents escort 8-12 kids cycling, on road, to a local school.

Now I'm not sure that traffic always respects them, but nonetheless....

Macy0161

I did find that when out with the girls, traffic was a lot more respectful. There's been a noticeable shift since my daughter is on a road bike, proper gear and looks (more) like an adult. It's one of those puzzling things - motorists have no problem risking the life of an adult potentially orphaning a child (and the emotional damage that may do to the child), but their conscience won't allow them to endanger a child...

Tombo2001

Macy0161 wrote: »

I did find that when out with the girls, traffic was a lot more respectful. There's been a noticeable shift since my daughter is on a road bike, proper gear and looks (more) like an adult. It's one of those puzzling things - motorists have no problem risking the life of an adult potentially orphaning a child (and the emotional damage that may do to the child), but their conscience won't allow them to endanger a child...

Hard to rationalise.

Like the 'baby on board' merchants who have no problem breaking red lights.

Traffic would be a lot more careful driving around a sheep or a stray dog that they would driving past any cyclist, whether child or adult.

silverharp

Tombo2001 wrote: »

In primary school I would say its more like 50/ 50.

In secondary school - there definitely seems to be a thing of teenage boys and their bikes - they all have the same type, big flash mountain bike from Trek or Giant, bright colours, that they can barely fit on to begin with.

Doesn't seem to be the same thing for girls - will go off piste now slightly and say as a parent of boys and girls that they types of things that are marketed to boys are much more associated with sport and activity and/or computer games; whereas the types of things that are marketed to girls or much more to do with appearance. Part of that is in the mindset of parents also.

I wouldn't have thought there is much in the way of marketing bikes to teenagers? There maybe fashion trends but I’d say its more bottom up. If its big mountain bikes today then some big movie might come out featuring small wheeled bikes and that will become the fashion. I bought my sons last bike without him even seeing it first, he wasn’t fussed and I just went for something that would “fit in” so it happened to be erm a Trek bike with mountain bike wheels

As a parent too I would say there has never been more “free choice” but there are clearly gendered differences in behaviour all things being equal and depending on what other options are available.

Tombo2001

silverharp wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought there is much in the way of marketing bikes to teenagers? There maybe fashion trends but I’d say its more bottom up. If its big mountain bikes today then some big movie might come out featuring small wheeled bikes and that will become the fashion. I bought my sons last bike without him even seeing it first, he wasn’t fussed and I just went for something that would “fit in” so it happened to be erm a Trek bike with mountain bike wheels

As a parent too I would say there has never been more “free choice” but there are clearly gendered differences in behaviour all things being equal and depending on what other options are available.

I take your point - I suppose being objective there is little or no marketing from bike companies.

To put it differently - when you look at a website like Giant or Trek - which are your bog standard in Irish bike shops - there are 8 or 10 sections on different types of bikes, and one of those sections is 'Womens'.

There is no sections that is 'Mens', ergo all other sections are Mens. Maybe that's me being cynical. But I don't think so.

And then in the kids sections, as you get to the larger bikes
(I) most of them are mountain bikes, which are more aimed at boys
(II) maybe one is pink and 4 or 5 are black or green or blue or whatever. But its still a mountain bike.

You could be right - it could be bottom up.

But the bike designs on offer, for me only appeal to be teenagers who are actively sporty - as opposed to a stylish city bike in pastel colours.

silverharp

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I take your point - I suppose being objective there is little or no marketing from bike companies.

To put it differently - when you look at a website like Giant or Trek - which are your bog standard in Irish bike shops - there are 8 or 10 sections on different types of bikes, and one of those sections is 'Womens'.

There is no sections that is 'Mens', ergo all other sections are Mens. Maybe that's me being cynical. But I don't think so.

And then in the kids sections, as you get to the larger bikes
(I) most of them are mountain bikes, which are more aimed at boys
(II) maybe one is pink and 4 or 5 are black or green or blue or whatever. But its still a mountain bike.

You could be right - it could be bottom up.

But the bike designs on offer, for me only appeal to be teenagers who are actively sporty - as opposed to a stylish city bike in pastel colours.

Most kids bikes are over engineered, essentially for them will be short commuting city bikes so yeah they are either going to tend to look like all terrain bikes or bikes for doing stunts with, customer gets what the customer wants? I tend not to see a lot of kids cycling to school because I cycle earlier , but I’d suggest differences in behaviour, like girls tendency to go to school in groups so that would be a disincentive for girls to cycle, so be it, that’s social and has its own value especially if they are walking and getting exercise.

JMcL

magicbastarder wrote: »

aha - it's one in ten students who cycle are female; not that one in ten female students cycle. that makes more sense.

Ah yes, my bad - I was only half listening to the start of the piece and took it up the wrong way

plodder wrote: »

I heard it and thought it was rather negative. Anecdotally, some schools have a much higher percentage than 1 in 10. Why don't they talk to them and see what works? I suspect (non) uniform policies have a lot to do with it.

I thought the kids interviewed were positive enough, though the gob****es that are giving them hassle deserve a good kick in the arse. They did I think mention uniform skirts being a problem - they ride up and what have you

Tombo2001 wrote: »

There's been a fair bit of activity around 'cycle buses' to schools, this is a parent led initiative and I've noticed a lot of twitter talk around them. For sure there is one in Galway, and I think a few around Malahide or Portmarnock.

I was talking to somebody recently that had tried to get one going with one of the local schools - the council started looking for safety plans and other such rubbish. How about a "safety plan" involving impatient close passing rush hour motorists and speeders getting tickets?

De Bhál

I was talking to somebody recently that had tried to get one going with one of the local schools - the council started looking for safety plans and other such rubbish. How about a "safety plan" involving impatient close passing rush hour motorists and speeders getting tickets?

why would they need to approach the council or even the school to set up one of these?

Tombo2001

Fair point, the only people they should really notify are the Guards, who personally I find to be very cycle friendly.

magicbastarder

De Bhál wrote: »

why would they need to approach the council or even the school to set up one of these?

i guess the understanding would be that if you organise an 'event' and someone gets injured in the course of that event, that you could be somehow declared liable, be it an act of omission or comission.

Chips Lovell

You don't even need to notify the guards. You're cycling, with children. It's not illegal and doesn't require permission from anyone.

Tombo2001

Chips Lovell wrote: »

You don't even need to notify the guards. You're cycling, with children. It's not illegal and doesn't require permission from anyone.

True.

What I'm saying is - if there is a garda standing on the street corner as you cycle by, then driver will be a lot more careful about how they behave.

I will hark back here to a study that showed the ONLY form of Hi-Viz that altered driver behaviour around cyclists was if the hi-viz said 'POLICE' on it.

JMcL

De Bhál wrote: »

why would they need to approach the council or even the school to set up one of these?

I think they wanted to do it as an official school thing, the council found out through the school somehow, and the Healt'n'Safety hat got put on. I think if I recall they wanted anybody accompanying the kids Garda vetted as well to boot. Parent organised is the only real way to do this without getting numpties involved, though getting the Guards onside probably isn't the worst idea

Duckjob

Macy0161 wrote: »

I did find that when out with the girls, traffic was a lot more respectful. There's been a noticeable shift since my daughter is on a road bike, proper gear and looks (more) like an adult. It's one of those puzzling things - motorists have no problem risking the life of an adult potentially orphaning a child (and the emotional damage that may do to the child), but their conscience won't allow them to endanger a child...

On this topic I find the immaturity of fellow Irish people absolutely tragic and embarrassing at this stage.

When we talk about getting kids cycling to school, we get largely positive reactions from people. Talk about adults cycling and the same people will immediatly start to spew out every cliched bit of crap - menace, holding up traffic, no respect, dont know what red light is, don't pay for the roads etc etc etc. I would love to know at what stage in these people's minds does cycling turn from a wholly positive into a wholly negative thing.

People here are stuck in the notion that cycling is only good when you're a child, and cycling as an adult is to be despised. Such people seem to lack the mental capacity to understand that cycling benefits continue over into adulthood.

It's depressing and embarrassing. For a supposedly intelligent race of people, when it comes to modernizing our country for active travel we do a staggeringly good job of living up to the pig-ignorant potato head stereotype of old.

Chips Lovell

I don't know. i don't think it's as clear cut people seeing child cycling = good, adult cycling = bad. I've come across a fair few people who'd class letting a child cycle to school as something akin to child abuse. They're usually the same eejits who reckon anyone who cycles to work is "taking their lives in their own hands".

tomasrojo

Speaking of schoolgirls and cycling, my ten-year-old daughter was just doing her English homework there, and the sentences she had to finish and correct were along the lines of:
The girl fell off/of her bike.
Wearing a helmet keeps you safe/safety.

The final sentence should have been:
Give. Me. Strength.

I believe that is the correct punctuation.

tomasrojo

JMcL wrote: »

I think they wanted to do it as an official school thing, the council found out through the school somehow, and the Healt'n'Safety hat got put on. I think if I recall they wanted anybody accompanying the kids Garda vetted as well to boot. Parent organised is the only real way to do this without getting numpties involved, though getting the Guards onside probably isn't the worst idea

I guess you might want the council to help publicise the Bike Bus.

Undercover Elephant

Chips Lovell wrote: »

They're usually the same eejits who reckon anyone who cycles to work is "taking their lives in their own hands".

This one always baffles me. Whose hands do they think I should put my life in?

tomasrojo

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

This one always baffles me. Whose hands do they think I should put my life in?

Well, I can definitely rule out the hands of a rock'n'roll band. Definitely don't put it there.

Tombo2001

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I don't know. i don't think it's as clear cut people seeing child cycling = good, adult cycling = bad. I've come across a fair few people who'd class letting a child cycle to school as something akin to child abuse. They're usually the same eejits who reckon anyone who cycles to work is "taking their lives in their own hands".

You could look at this another way and say, that's people who don't want the status quo threatened because it will put them out - even though they know the status quo is wrong. And this is an acceptable way of saying why things shouldn't change.

mr spuckler

Crimecall on RTE last night showed a hit&run on Conyngham rd where 2 cars which appeared to be pretty much racing each other were driven along at shocking speed, one of them driving straight through the cyclist who was left with life-changing injuries according to the report. A really horrific clip

De Bhál

mr spuckler wrote: »

Crimecall on RTE last night showed a hit&run on Conyngham rd where 2 cars which appeared to be pretty much racing each other were driven along at shocking speed, one of them driving straight through the cyclist who was left with life-changing injuries according to the report. A really horrific clip

on here, brutal

https://www.thesun.ie/news/4581934/cyclist-high-speed-car-strike/

Duckjob

mr spuckler wrote: »

Crimecall on RTE last night showed a hit&run on Conyngham rd where 2 cars which appeared to be pretty much racing each other were driven along at shocking speed, one of them driving straight through the cyclist who was left with life-changing injuries according to the report. A really horrific clip

Horrific is the right word. I was watching with Mrs D and I wish she hadn't seen it because she already gets tummy pains from worry when I go out on the bike

CormacH94

Right beside the Criminal Court of Justice, you'd think there'd be a lot more CCTV around that area.

Have a mate that cycles through Phoenix Park every night for his commute, he's told me some hair raising stories about close calls with reckless driving, reckons it's a lot of drink driving/headcases like these racing each other

mr spuckler

CormacH94 wrote: »

Right beside the Criminal Court of Justice, you'd think there'd be a lot more CCTV around that area.

Have a mate that cycles through Phoenix Park every night for his commute, he's told me some hair raising stories about close calls with reckless driving, reckons it's a lot of drink driving/headcases like these racing each other

Yeah i couldn't understand how it or the cars themselves weren't better captured on CCTV.

work

mr spuckler wrote: »

Crimecall on RTE last night showed a hit&run on Conyngham rd where 2 cars which appeared to be pretty much racing each other were driven along at shocking speed, one of them driving straight through the cyclist who was left with life-changing injuries according to the report. A really horrific clip

Very sad, I wish the man all the best with recovery. fortunately this is fairly rare but close calls are not. We need to start fining drivers like this. Serious fines 5k or 10k and people might seriously consider close passes, I am aware this incident was more serious and a long custodial sentence is required especially for not stopping.

Duckjob

work wrote: »

Very sad, I wish the man all the best with recovery. fortunately this is fairly rare but close calls are not. We need to start fining drivers like this. Serious fines 5k or 10k and people might seriously consider close passes, I am aware this incident was more serious and a long custodial sentence is required especially for not stopping.

Forget fining. People who are caught driving like that should lose their licence for life, no ifs, no buts, no excuses heard. Examples need to be made to bring about a real change.

People should have the basic human right to go on the road without fear of being wiped out by pond life like this.

eeeee

Duckjob wrote: »

Forget fining. People who are caught driving like that should lose their licence for life, no ifs, no buts, no excuses heard. Examples need to be made to bring about a real change.

People should have the basic human right to go on the road without fear of being wiped out by pond life like this.

Totally agree. Anyone who injures another human in such a dangerous manner should never, ever be allowed have a license again.
I do not understand how anyone who has killed another person through their own dangerous driving can get their license again. It blows my mind when they're allowed back behind the wheel again - like someone's life is worth only 5 or ten or three years.

tampopo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Fair point, the only people they should really notify are the Guards, who personally I find to be very cycle friendly.

Not when it comes to keeping cycle lanes clear