Journalism and cycling

work

magicbastarder wrote: »

Women cyclists on harassment: ‘They think it’s sexy interaction. I’m just going to work’
Only one in every 250 teenage girls gets to school by bike. And it has nothing to do with school skirts
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/women-cyclists-on-harassment-they-think-it-s-sexy-interaction-i-m-just-going-to-work-1.4024995

I'm not really sure what we should do. For the record I am male and have cycled as an adult into dublin for nearly 30 years. Is this a real issue? On reading the article I note this line " The harassment rarely involves words. It’s most frequently a beep. Sometimes, it’s a pointed look, “a big, stupid, dirty smile”, and a hand gesture, like a thumbs up. " Now though I have never seen or been exposed to harrassment that I noticed if I apply that line I am getting harassed all the time. People are looking at me all the time, some beep for no apparent reason, some smile stupidly and plenty of cyclists, bikers and even pedestrians have spoken to me. Does this mean I have been subjected to masses of harrassment but didnt know? I do not think so?
Either there are lots of pig men and I never noticed or these "stats" are non genuine.
I am of course male and ignorant of the "thruth" but I asked a couple of females with many years cycling experience and they say they have no issue, the only coment was one of them said if I lived in a different area it might be an issue?

So is this really an issue. I can tell you if I saw someone hassle a female cyclist they wouldn't do it again too quickly!
Anyway girls and ladies please come cycling I can tell you the vast majority of men and boys are delighted to see you there and there is no malice in that!

beauf

They could supply a few head cams to record this. Remove any doubt.

It would create an interested problem. They want to be seen as defending women's issues but they also want to vilify cyclists.

buffalo

work wrote: »

I'm not really sure what we should do. For the record I am male and have cycled as an adult into dublin for nearly 30 years. Is this a real issue? On reading the article I note this line " The harassment rarely involves words. It’s most frequently a beep. Sometimes, it’s a pointed look, “a big, stupid, dirty smile”, and a hand gesture, like a thumbs up. " Now though I have never seen or been exposed to harrassment that I noticed if I apply that line I am getting harassed all the time. People are looking at me all the time, some beep for no apparent reason, some smile stupidly and plenty of cyclists, bikers and even pedestrians have spoken to me. Does this mean I have been subjected to masses of harrassment but didnt know? I do not think so?
Either there are lots of pig men and I never noticed or these "stats" are non genuine.
I am of course male and ignorant of the "thruth" but I asked a couple of females with many years cycling experience and they say they have no issue, the only coment was one of them said if I lived in a different area it might be an issue?

So is this really an issue. I can tell you if I saw someone hassle a female cyclist they wouldn't do it again too quickly!
Anyway girls and ladies please come cycling I can tell you the vast majority of men and boys are delighted to see you there and there is no malice in that!

https://twitter.com/shailjapatel/status/1084833258532147202

eeeee

buffalo wrote: »

https://twitter.com/shailjapatel/status/1084833258532147202

1000 times this.

I'm a woman, and I cycle.
A lot.
And I get at least one of the following every week: I get shouted at (usually mentioning some part of my body), leered at, cars and vans changing lanes to shout at me out the window, the beeping (not the usual fcuking cyclist beeping, I get that too and it's different).
It happens more when I'm not in lycra.
It doesn't happen if I'm cycling in company.
It happens when I'm on my own, in my normal clothes (about 70/30 break down I'd un-scientifically say).
It's easing off as I get older, when I was in my very early 20's it was multiple times a day.

I can completely understand how it puts women and young girls off. It's threatening, intimidating (it's more common coming from groups of guys walking/ driving by) sometimes humiliating and completely unnecessary. It makes me angry and really pisses me off when it happens, how dare these rotten, ignorant, repulsive pricks pass comment on my physical self when I'm just going about my fcuking day.
They don't do it when I'm in company, which is extremely telling.
It is completely, utterly and totally indefensible and I really, really struggle to understand how people find it hard to understand how it affects women and young girls- it's disgusting, intimidating and threatening, of course it's going to put them off :rolleyes:

I'm no shrinking violet, I just ignore it, but no one should have to suffer that shyte as they go about their business, women, girls, men or boys.

magicbastarder

yep, i mentioned in the other thread elsewhere on boards that a year or two ago, i asked a friend of mine who is a teacher in a girls secondary school, about how many students there cycled to school. her husband is a cyclist, so it was something he had already talked about with her and she'd asked the girls out of curiosity.
anyway, i was assuming skirts/weather/weight of school bags would be the issues raised, but it was precisely this one which was mentioned as the main issue. being videoed by boys from other schools was one thing she mentioned which was putting them off; she said videos had been shared on whatever social media platform the kids were using.

Rechuchote

tomasrojo wrote: »

It did occur to me before that if you force your teenager to leave the house wearing a helmet to cycle to school, they will be riding with it hanging off the handlebars most of the time. This, even if you think helmets are fantastically effective, is worse than leaving without a helmet, in that they're not wearing it anyway, and hanging stuff off the handlebars is generally not a great idea.

There are clearly teenagers who are happy enough to wear them, obviously. I'm just talking about the ones that are forced to wear them.

Not just teens. A friend who wears a wig is hassled by family to wear a helmet every time she takes out the bike. Result is she's virtually stopped cycling. (The irony is that her family don't wear helmets…)

plodder

I wonder if this behaviour occurs more in some places. It's not hard to imagine that places like the canal in Dublin where basically any cyclist can be harassed, that situation is probably a lot worse for women and girls. And no question that even small groups of lads whether in cars or or not, can often mean trouble for females particularly.

Have to say though I was shocked (and a bit disbelieving) at the idea of grown men harassing school girls on bikes. Anyone doing that needs to be having a long chat with the gardai. Having said that, I would be concerned that some of what was cited in that article eg "smiling", "beeping" etc could have more benign explanations, in some cases at least, and hardly seems like a reasonable reason for not cycling to me.... Not sure what the answer is either. Maybe headcam footage posted on social media or in bad cases sent to the gardai.

I suspect that road conditions and distance to travel are the main inhibitors for kids cycling to school. I won't name the area, but the place where I regularly see lots of kids (male and female) cycling to school, they mostly cycle on the path and the girls are in a school with no uniform.

Rechuchote

Nope. If you're a young (pre-menopause) woman, you'll get this. As an old woman, I just get the blared horns and rage and close passes. But in youth and early middle age, many men wanted to impose their phallocratic notions on my by leering, tongue-waggling, hissing, obscene remarks and gestures, etc. I longed at times for a water pistol filled with Tabasco.

magicbastarder

plodder wrote: »

Have to say though I was shocked (and a bit disbelieving) at the idea of grown men harassing school girls on bikes.

not that she was cycling, but my wife went to school in dominic's on griffith avenue in the 90s. she said it was common to get unwanted or lecherous comments from men when she was in her school uniform.

Seth Brundle

Rechuchote wrote: »

But in youth and early middle age, many men wanted to impose their phallocratic notions on my by leering, tongue-waggling, hissing, obscene remarks and gestures, etc.

magicbastarder wrote: »

not that she was cycling, but my wife went to school in dominic's on griffith avenue in the 90s. she said it was common to get unwanted or lecherous comments from men when she was in her school uniform.

FFS what is wrong with some people. It would never occur to me to do something like that and thankfully I've never seen anyone doing it.
It's unbelievable really that it's that blatant.

magicbastarder

if challenged, 90% of the reaction would be 'aah love, i'm just joking/having a bit of banter'

beauf

Much as I hate head cam footage posted online, perhaps its needed here to change the mindset.

There is only I can find online and its of dubious origin.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/22/why-a-viral-video-of-a-cyclists-revenge-on-catcallers-may-not-be-all-it-seems

Maybe a TV campaign at peak time would be more appropriate.

eeeee

magicbastarder wrote: »

not that she was cycling, but my wife went to school in dominic's on griffith avenue in the 90s. she said it was common to get unwanted or lecherous comments from men when she was in her school uniform.

Happened to me all the time, and I would just be walking to and from the school bus.
It's hideous.

Same muppets would be furious if their wife/mother/daughter/sister told them it had happened to them.

I was in a cab once and the driver commented on a womans bum stopped at the lights in front of us. Face like a slapped arse on him when I asked him to keep his comments to himself, I enjoyed the rest of the journey in blissful silence

magicbastarder

Seth Brundle wrote: »

FFS what is wrong with some people. It would never occur to me to do something like that and thankfully I've never seen anyone doing it.
It's unbelievable really that it's that blatant.

i was on the top deck of a bus once when some scrote started hurling abuse at a woman for not appreciating his 'approving' comments. he shut up when another passenger politely informed him that he would have trouble passing comment on anything if he didn't put a stop to it immediately.

what_traffic

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/women-cyclists-on-harassment-they-think-it-s-sexy-interaction-i-m-just-going-to-work-1.4024995

Pity no mention of the entitled Car Culture that the writers employer promotes on a daily basis.

magicbastarder

this is behind a paywall, a quick mention about cycling, relevant paragraph quoted:

David McWilliams: If I were Paschal Donohoe, here is what I would do

Last year we raised €1.87 billion from motor tax, VRT, NCT and other transport-related taxes. We should use this nearly €2 billion in annual revenue to service a 30-year bond financing Metro building, train building, cycle lane building and new motorways.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/david-mcwilliams-if-i-were-paschal-donohoe-here-is-what-i-would-do-1.4031385

Tombo2001

what_traffic wrote: »

Pity no mention of the entitled Car Culture that the writers employer promotes on a daily basis.

I thought there was a fairly huge hypocrisy in the Irish Times seeking to show moral thought leadership on this (very genuine and concerning) cycling issue; while on so many other occasions the thought leadership it has shown has been to criticize and marginalize cyclists.

buffalo

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I thought there was a fairly huge hypocrisy in the Irish Times seeking to show moral thought leadership on this (very genuine and concerning) cycling issue; while on so many other occasions the thought leadership it has shown has been to criticize and marginalize cyclists.

"The Irish Times has a bias against cycling cyclists... hey, there's a positive article - HOW DARE THEY!" :pac::pac::pac:

what_traffic

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I thought there was a fairly huge hypocrisy in the Irish Times seeking to show moral thought leadership on this (very genuine and concerning) cycling issue; while on so many other occasions the thought leadership it has shown has been to criticize and marginalize cyclists.

Not even the best of the IT journalists are able to join up the dots on it I'm afraid.
Car ad revenue is a huge €€€ for them though. They cannot be impartial.

what_traffic

tomasrojo wrote: »

The Guardian journalist Peter Walker has had a book about cycling as transport published recently, and was interviewed on the Bike Show

Until the IT have an Irish version of "Peter Walker" and I don't mean Peadar O Súilóir, then level of discourse on the topic will be as fragmented as it has been for some time now.

magicbastarder

worth noting that lois kapila - the woman behind the dublin enquirer, which is a cycling-friendly newspaper - is up for the european journalist of the year. ireland seems to be punching above its weight here; two journalists listed, and only the UK has more, with three:

https://www.prixeuropa.eu/news/2019/10/01/teuropeanjournlistoftheyear2019-shortlistnominations-jwal3

tomasrojo

tomasrojo wrote: »

The usual thing would be to calculate a relative-risk ratio (or an odds ratio, which is similar).

Basically, divide the fraction of the head-injured who were wearing helmets by the fraction of the general cycling population wearing helmets. The closer the ratio is to 1, the less likely the helmet had an effect.

You'd usually work out a 95% confidence interval for the ratio, and if your interval "includes" 1, then you'd say the study didn't show a statistically significant effect.

Sometimes in these hospitlatisation studies they estimate the background population rate of wearing by looking at the non head-injured admissions. This is a flawed methodology, according to a Dutch paper, because you're assuming that wearing a helmet doesn't change your chance of acquiring a lower-body injury.

These hospitalistion studies have problems with confounding, especially things like social class and inebriation at time of collision.

Fundamentally, the stat.s suggest that cycling isn't especially productive of serious head injuries and (more contentious this one) helmets aren't especially good at preventing serious head injuries. So it's up to you whether you think it's worth it. Just spare other people your opinion in general, I guess.

Based on this piece over at irishcycle.com
https://irishcycle.com/2019/10/01/bicycle-helmets-the-irish-media-and-lies-damned-lies-and-statistics/
I did try to do a quick bit of stats.

If you assume a background general-population non-wearing rate of about 60% (mentioned in the link there), and try a z-test for one proportion, based on a sample of 26 seriously head-injured cyclists (non-wearing rate of about 70%), you don’t get a statistically significant result.

At least, when I tried it out here:
https://www.medcalc.org/calc/test_one_proportion.php
(Observed Proportion: 70%, Sample size:26, Null hypothesis value: 60%)
I got p=0.3
You’d want p<0.05 for it to be statistically significant.

The background non-wearing rate might be a lot lower than 60%, of course, but these simplistic hospital studies aren't great evidence anyway, for reasons covered well enough over in the Helmet Megathread.

magicbastarder

'We live for gravity biking': deadly sport is way of life in Medellín
The risky hillside pastime – which sees people hurtle down steep inclines on weighted bikes at up to 77 mph – is providing kids in downtrodden areas of Colombia’s second city with an escape from their troubles
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/02/we-live-for-gravity-biking-deadly-sport-is-way-of-life-in-medellin

magicbastarder

again, not specifically cycling related, but a lot of what is talked about would be of interest to many cyclists.

Collision course: pedestrian deaths are rising – and driverless cars aren’t likely to change that
For drivers, roads are safer than ever – but for people on foot, they are getting deadlier. Car companies and Silicon Valley claim that they have the solution. But is that too good to be true?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/03/collision-course-pedestrian-deaths-rising-driverless-cars

it's one of the long reads, so not something easily skimmed.

Tombo2001

magicbastarder wrote: »

'We live for gravity biking': deadly sport is way of life in Medellín
The risky hillside pastime – which sees people hurtle down steep inclines on weighted bikes at up to 77 mph – is providing kids in downtrodden areas of Colombia’s second city with an escape from their troubles
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/02/we-live-for-gravity-biking-deadly-sport-is-way-of-life-in-medellin

Saturday past I saw three teenagers/ young men whizzing about Phibsoro on scramblers, breaking lights, weaving in and out of traffic, illegal left turn of whitworth road through the green pedestrian light and pulling wheelies when they got onto the main Phibsboro stretch.

And not wearing helmets.

Life expectancy of these lads if they do it every Saturday would be fairly short.

Same idea...….'providing kids in downtrodden areas with an escape from their troubles'.....

Stark

Nah, they're like joyriders. Made of rubber.

Tombo2001

Agreed, but principally a danger to themselves (imho).

Was quite startling to see people doing something so obviously dangerous.

Tombo2001

magicbastarder wrote: »

again, not specifically cycling related, but a lot of what is talked about would be of interest to many cyclists.

Collision course: pedestrian deaths are rising – and driverless cars aren’t likely to change that
For drivers, roads are safer than ever – but for people on foot, they are getting deadlier. Car companies and Silicon Valley claim that they have the solution. But is that too good to be true?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/oct/03/collision-course-pedestrian-deaths-rising-driverless-cars

it's one of the long reads, so not something easily skimmed.

There are so many issues around this and it all boils down to the same thing. Drivers getting the lions share of the road.

For example, I'm trying to teach the kids - be dogmatic -about waiting for the green man. You can be waiting two minutes. Then you get to a traffic island. Its not co-ordinated so you waiting another minute. And then you get across.

Can take 3 minutes to walk 30 yards when you are a pedestrian trying to cross the road. Nowhere, ever, do drivers have to put up with that crap.

plodder

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Saturday past I saw three teenagers/ young men whizzing about Phibsoro on scramblers, breaking lights, weaving in and out of traffic, illegal left turn of whitworth road through the green pedestrian light and pulling wheelies when they got onto the main Phibsboro stretch.

And not wearing helmets.

Life expectancy of these lads if they do it every Saturday would be fairly short.

Same idea...….'providing kids in downtrodden areas with an escape from their troubles'.....

Makes my blood boil to see or even hear about this type of nonsense as it isn't just themselves they damage. Remember that case where the scrote landed his scrambler on the head of a man having a picnic in Darndale park. He was left permanently paralysed and incapacitated. The scrote got off with a slap on the wrist as he is (was) under 18.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/man-38-fighting-life-motorbike-landed-head-sunbathing-irish-park-155901

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/wifes-anger-as-scrambler-rider-avoids-court-over-husbands-injury-38044612.html